New girlfriend used to self-cut

[tamir302]

Hi all,

So I've been dating this 23 years old girl for about two months now. I really like her and things seem to work out well. It's not official, but I guess I can call her my girlfriend by now.

 

Thing is: two weeks ago she confessed to me that she regularly goes to see a psychiatrist and takes anti-depressants. Apparently, she had a bad time some 4 years ago, leading to a major depression episode. Since then, she's on pills.

 

I was a bit unsettled to hear this, but I figured it's OK since she's fine and balanced, so it's not a big deal.

 

However, yesterday night we went on a date and I noticed scars on her arm. (First time she wore a sleeveless shirt). I asked what happened, and eventually she admitted that she also used to cut herself- beginning right when she had that depression episode. She also said she continued to do so up until about a year ago (oddly enough, at the same time when she stopped seeing her psychologist).

 

Honestly, since yesterday I'm pretty shaken up by this and not sure what to do. I've never met someone (who I knew of) that cut himself, and the more I read about it the more it seemed scary and unreal to me.

 

Now, I'm not sure how what to do about our relationship. On the one hand, I realize this cutting thing is apparently a thing of the past, and that I'm dating the current her.

On the other hand, I'm afraid she'll have a relapse, as I understand this kind of behaviour can reemerge. And frankly, I'm not sure I can or want to deal with this kind of thing.

 

Any thoughts?

[Downtown]

She had a bad time some 4 years ago, leading to a major depression episode.... She also used to cut herself- beginning right when she had that depression episode. She also said she continued to do so up until about a year ago.

Tamir, her cutting may have resulted from temporary depression, as she says. Anything is possible. There is a good chance, however, that it is a red flag for something much more serious. The APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5) lists "self-harming behavior such as cutting" for only one disorder. It is not depression.

 

Rather, the disorder is BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Of the 157 disorders listed in DSM-5, only BPD has "cutting" listed as a defining trait. Moreover, many studies have shown that self harm like cutting is strongly associated with BPD. A 2004 hospital study, for example, found that

Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but

the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder

. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma.

See

J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004

.

As to the depression, I note that exhibiting strong and persistent BPD traits does not rule out depression. About 80% of female BPDers also suffer from a co-occurring lifetime problem with a mood disorder, much of which is depression. Specifically, 36% of female BPDers suffer from Major Depressive Disorder and an additional 8.5% of them suffer from bipolar-2 (i.e., severe depression alternating with very mild mania). See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

I was a bit unsettled to hear this, but I figured it's OK since she's fine and balanced, so it's not a big deal.

Perhaps she is "fine and balanced," as you say. Yet, seeing her exhibit stable behavior for only two months -- the length of time you two have been dating -- really proves nothing if strong BPD traits are involved. The vast majority of BPDers (i.e, those having strong and persistent traits) -- even the vast majority of those having full-blown BPD -- are high functioning and therefore typically do not display any strong BPD traits during the infatuation period.

 

That period usually lasts 4 to 6 months (but may last longer than a year for couples who are dating long distance). The reason you won't see any strong BPD traits during that early courtship period is that a BPDer's infatuation is so intense that she is absolutely convinced that you are the nearly perfect guy who has come to rescue her from unhappiness (i.e., her "soul mate"). That infatuation holds her two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) at bay.

 

Yet, as soon as her infatuation starts to evaporate, those fears will return and you will start triggering them. Indeed, if she is a BPDer, it will be IMPOSSIBLE to avoid triggering them. The reason is that these two fears lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that, as you back away from her to give her relief from her engulfment fear, you unavoidably will start triggering her other fear: that of abandonment. And as you draw near to her to reassure her that you will not abandon her, you will start triggering her fear of engulfment.

 

Any thoughts?

My thoughts are that it would be prudent to spend a little time learning how to spot the warning signs for BPD. An easy place to start reading is my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. I suggest you also read my more detailed description of these red flags at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description starts ringing many bells -- especially after you've been dating her for 4 to 6 months -- I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

At this point, I offer two cautions. First, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your GF's issues. Only a professional can determine whether her BPD traits are so severe as to satisfy 100% of the criteria for having full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful experience.

 

Second, BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your GF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that may occur if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," irrational jealousy, and temper tantrums. Take care, Tamir.

[tamir302]

Hi Downtown, thx for the reply.

 

I understand what you wrote about Border line personality disorder, but I'm not sure that's the case here. My girlfriend is treated by a psychiatric which would have been able to diagnose it by now. So, unless she's lying of course, she was "only" diagnosed with depression.

Wiki's self-harm entry also reads: "he desire to self-harm is listed in the DSM-IV-TR as a symptom of borderline personality disorder. However, patients with other diagnoses may also self-harm, including those with depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, eating disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder, schizophrenia, and several personality disorders.[2] Self-harm is also apparent in high-functioning individuals who have no underlying clinical diagnosis.[".

 

Anyways, I guess it's good to know about BPD and I will be on the lookout for any signs.

 

My question was more about what to do at the present. I'm so shocked and confused by this whole thing, and I'm not sure how to deal with her and our relationship.

[Satu]

snip

My question was more about what to do at the present. I'm so shocked and confused by this whole thing, and I'm not sure how to deal with her and our relationship.

 

Treat her exactly as you would any other person.

 

Be kind.

 

Thats all you need to do.

[Aniela]

snip

 

 

Treat her exactly as you would any other person.

 

Be kind.

 

Thats all you need to do.

 

This.

 

..........

[katiegrl]

Not everyone who has emotional issues suffers from BPD, geez.

 

That seems to be the "go to" diagnosis some people automatically jump to whenever a woman has emotional issues. Not always the case...

 

OP, self-cutting is very serious.... does she also have an eating disorder by any chance?

 

Those two things seem to go hand in hand in many cases.

 

Only a psychologist/psychiatrist can diagnose, but from what I have read those who self-cut feel a loss of control in their lives.... and/or a history of abuse.

 

Anxiety issues, depression, bipolar disorder, and yes sometimes Borderline, can be contributing factors... but in any event obviously she is very troubled and needs to be under the care of a mental health professional...

 

Proceed with caution....

[longjohn]

My ex wife used to cut herself on the top of her arms. She covered it up, hid it, lied about it then came clean about it about a year into the relationship. She seemed normal, well adjusted at the time. Over time out came the issues which were mostly father (or lack of) related. She did at times have mood swings, mostly she seemed to think I was going to leave her or cheat on her. In fact about a year before we broke up a female coworker stopped by the house to get something while my then wife was there. After she left my then wife stated my coworker had a thing for me then questioned if I was having an affair. I managed to defuse the situation by pointing out how ridiculousness it was.

 

Funny thing is my now ex wife ended up having an affair on me less than a year later. I can't help but think looking back was she projecting what she wanted onto me? Was the cutting part of this? Were there other warning signs to look out for that I missed.

 

Anyway after that any signs of cutting or any other disorders mental or otherwise I've become very, very cautious. I once dated a really nice lady, pretty, smart, had her whole life in order then out came the "I'm bipolar" and I took off faster than a cheetah after a gazelle.

[Jabron1]

I have read Downtown's posts before on BPD women, and I respect him. But, I disagree with him here.

 

I have went out with a woman that self harmed before. She wasn't BPD at all.

 

I have went out with a BPD woman too, and she never self harmed.

 

My advice is to carry on, but be wary of becoming her emotional tampon.

[Dis]

Speaking from her point of view....I'm a woman who also used to cut...I have bipolar...I have scars on my arm too...I havent cut in 10 years and havent had a symptom in 7 years.

 

Telling my bf about this was very scary....I'm relieved he was understanding about it

 

What you need to keep in mind is this....her past is in the past

 

Dont make assumptions about her based on her scars or her diagnosis...who knows..maybe shes just like me and shes totally unaffected by it now...

 

I think its alittle judgmental on your part to assume she's unstable just because she's had a difficult past

 

Theres a good chance shes healed from her past and has emerged a stronger, wiser person for having gone through it

 

Judge her based on what you see NOW. Not what you hear about her past

 

If you find out down the road she's still unstable...then feel free to move on...but until then you need to give her the benefit of the doubt

 

And btw....she was probably terrified to wear short sleeves around you for the first time...I was the same way with my bf....shes showing you shes beginning to trust you...shes going out on a ledge...give her credit for how much strength that takes

 

Cut her some slack and make your judgements based on her present self

[Downtown]

I understand what you wrote about Border line personality disorder, but I'm not sure that's the case here.

Neither am I. On the contrary, I said that -- even if she really is a BPDer -- you should not expect to see any strong BPD traits for at least another 2 to 4 months. Hence, I suggested you learn to spot the warning signs in case they do show up. Moreover, even in the event that does happen, I said you would be able to spot strong BPD traits but would not be able to determine whether they are sufficiently severe to constitute full-blown BPD. Only professionals do that.

 

My girlfriend is treated by a psychiatric which would have been able to diagnose it by now. So, unless she's lying of course, she was "only" diagnosed with depression.

If your GF has been diagnosed as a BPDer (i.e., as exhibiting strong and persistent traits), it is unlikely that her psychiatrist would mention it to her. Therapists generally are loath to tell a high functioning BPDer the name of his/her disorder (for the BPDer's own protection). One reason is that the BPDer almost certainly will immediately quit therapy on hearing it.

 

Another reason is that insurance companies generally refuse to cover BPD treatments, which means the BPDer's out-of-pocket costs would at least double if "BPD" were to appear on the formal diagnosis. Instead, therapists typically list only the co-occurring "clinical disorders" such depression, PTSD, bipolar, and anxiety -- all of which are covered by insurance. For a more complete explanation of why this information is not provided to the patient, see my post at Loath to Diagnose BPD.

 

Anyways, I guess it's good to know about BPD and I will be on the lookout for any signs.

My view exactly -- whenever you are seeing a past history of cutting. Granted, cutting by itself is not proof that someone exhibits full-blown BPD. It nonetheless is so rare, and so strongly associated with BPD, that it is one of the 9 defining traits used in diagnosing it.

[Downtown]

I have went out with a woman that self harmed before. She wasn't BPD at all.

Jabron, I agree with you that a history of cutting -- which apparently lasted nearly 3 years in this case -- does NOT imply a woman exhibits strong BPD traits. The 2004 study I cited did not find that all cutters were BPDers. Rather, as I noted above, it found that "the majority" were.

 

I have went out with a BPD woman too, and she never self harmed.

Likewise, my BPDer exW never did any cutting or self mutilation that I am aware of.

 

My advice is to carry on, but be wary of becoming her emotional tampon.

Again, I agree with you.

[JustGettingBy]

I have read Downtown's posts before on BPD women, and I respect him. But, I disagree with him here.

 

I have went out with a woman that self harmed before. She wasn't BPD at all.

 

I have went out with a BPD woman too, and she never self harmed.

 

My advice is to carry on, but be wary of becoming her emotional tampon.

 

I pretty much agree with this. Start thinking now if you can put up with someone with BPD, and if she starts showing signs, put your decision into action.

 

That said, if she doesn't show signs, this whole thing becomes a lot less of an issue.

[Downtown]

Not everyone who has emotional issues suffers from BPD, geez.

Katiegrl, that's why nobody on this thread has made that claim.

 

[bPD] seems to be the "go to" diagnosis some people automatically jump to whenever a woman has emotional issues.

Not on this thread. On the contrary, I said that I could not answer the question of whether the GF exhibits strong BPD traits. And I cautioned that only a professional can diagnose BPD (i.e., full-blown BPD).

 

I merely made the factual statement that cutting is so strongly associated with BPD that it is one of the nine traits used in diagnosing it. That cannot be said of any of the remaining 156 mental disorders in the DSM-5.

 

OP, self-cutting is very serious.... does she also have an eating disorder by any chance? Those two things seem to go hand in hand in many cases.

Likewise, having brown hair and being under 6 feet tall go "hand in hand in many cases" of cutting. Yet, it is BPD -- not hair color or eating disorders -- that has such a strong association with it that cutting is listed as a defining trait. As I observed, cutting is not listed as a defining trait for any other disorder. Moreover, I cited to a 2004 study that found most cutters to be people suffering from BPD.

 

Proceed with caution....

Good advice. Edited June 19, 2016 by Downtown

[tamir302]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for all the replies. Just a short update- she broke up with me.

I didn't really hide my shock and confusion from her, and today she told me she needs someone she can trust to handle and support her through her rough times. And besides, she didn't want to cause me any more distress.

 

Fair enough, I guess.

[True Gent]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for all the replies. Just a short update- she broke up with me.

I didn't really hide my shock and confusion from her, and today she told me she needs someone she can trust to handle and support her through her rough times. And besides, she didn't want to cause me any more distress.

 

Fair enough, I guess.

 

By the sounds of your reaction to her breaking up with you, it sounds like it was for the best. It's a weight of your mind and it's what is best for both of you.

 

Take care.

[tamir302]

By the sounds of your reaction to her breaking up with you, it sounds like it was for the best. It's a weight of your mind and it's what is best for both of you.

 

Take care.

 

Yes, that's probably true. She does need someone who can accept her and work through her issues, and I'm not sure I'm up to it.

 

A bit of a shame though, since we were good together. But I guess it is for the best.

 

Thank you and all other repliers.

[Lois_Griffin]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for all the replies. Just a short update- she broke up with me.

I didn't really hide my shock and confusion from her, and today she told me she needs someone she can trust to handle and support her through her rough times. And besides, she didn't want to cause me any more distress.

 

Fair enough, I guess.

You dodged a huge bullet.

 

She's a hot mess and you would have gone on a sleigh-ride to hell with this woman.

 

Relationships are hard enough with emotionally healthy people. I'd never sign up for this type of train-wreck.

 

Thank your lucky stars.

[tamir302]

Actually, I feel really bad right now. I'm sure I hurt her- she was starting to trust me and feel more comfortable around me, and I panicked because of her scars- which I'm sure she's self-conscious and anxious about as is.

 

It was unintentionally and with absolutely no ill-will, but I hurt her bad.

[Downtown]

She broke up with me. I didn't really hide my shock and confusion from her, and today she told me she needs someone she can trust to handle and support her through her rough times. Fair enough, I guess.

I disagree. Granted, it would be fair enough on her part if she were a young child you were intending to adopt and take care of. Yet, this is a 23-year-old who represented herself to you as being sufficiently mature and stable to be good marriage material, i.e., able to support you in the same way you are expected to support her.

 

So where is her support for you? Why is she unwilling to give you time to adjust to her shocking news that she had spent three years in such intense emotional pain that cutting her own arms gave her some brief moments of relief from that inner torment? I see nothing "fair enough" about her decision to dump you simply because you expressed shock and confusion.

[tamir302]

I disagree. Granted, it would be fair enough on her part if she were a young child you were intending to adopt and take care of. Yet, this is a 23-year-old who represented herself to you as being sufficiently mature and stable to be good marriage material, i.e., able to support you in the same way you are expected to support her.

 

So where is her support for you? Why is she unwilling to give you time to adjust to her shocking news that she had spent three years in such intense emotional pain that cutting her own arms gave her some brief moments of relief from that inner torment? I see nothing "fair enough" about her decision to dump you simply because you expressed shock and confusion.

 

Well, my guess is that she's really hurt. When I responded that way I did to her scars, I think that brought up all her insecurities to the surface, and she probably felt like I betrayed her trust. So, she decided to end this, maybe out of anger and pain.

Plus, I did tell her I'm not sure I can handle it if she's cutting again.

 

But you are right- dropping a bomb like this and expecting 100% immediate backup is unrealistic. Today when we were having our breakup talk (over text messages), I did tell her I'm willing to try and handle whatever comes along the way.

Apparently, it was not enough.

[Satu]

Actually, I feel really bad right now. I'm sure I hurt her- she was starting to trust me and feel more comfortable around me, and I panicked because of her scars- which I'm sure she's self-conscious and anxious about as is.

 

*It was unintentionally and with absolutely no ill-will, but I hurt her bad.

 

*Therfore you have done nothing wrong.