The New Shame?

[ShatteredLady]

A recent post in "Addicted to cheating on my wife" thread has reminded of past discussions which still haunt me & make reconciliation really hard for me.

 

The basic premise....

 

MM states that he cheated on his wife, once or repeatedly. Come D-day his wife doesn't leave. He looses respect for her, "If she was strong she would dump me!". In the past a member stated that he would always view his wife as being weak, pathetic because no self respecting person would stay in a marriage filled with adultery...His OW had long gone because he couldn't make a decision!

 

Esther Perel stated, "Staying is the new shame."

 

I often feel this way. Maybe I shouldn't read some of the forums here!! As a young woman I firmly believed that if any man treated me with such disrespect he wouldn't see me for dust!

 

Do cheating MM loose respect for wives that don't file for divorce? It haunts me.

 

Staying has taken more strength than I believed I could ever muster but now I'm feeling like a total looser to be honest. I've lost my faith, dreams, beliefs. I've lost so much of myself. Now I read MM/WS who have the audacity to consider their bs weak. WTF?!?!? Does the pain & humiliation ever end? It's beyond isolating & degrading.

[Buddhist]

The hard pill to swallow in life is that we just have to stop caring what other people think of us. I know, I know easy to say, hard to do and it's something people just 'say' for the sake of it. But actually I've really come to understand what this means for me.

 

It means that no matter how someone else treats me, no matter what they think of me, I don't lose myself. I don't need their validation therefore I am not harmed by their limited idea's of who I am either. If someone loses respect for me, so be it. I'm not living to garner it form them anyway. My life will go on, I will continue to respect myself according to what that means to me.

 

If staying means you respect yourself more then that is the reason to stay. If you're only doing it to obtain something from the other person then you may as well leave. That other person hasn't been capable of giving it to you in the relationship before, they won't suddenly be capable of giving it to you now. You stay or go for your own purposes and according to your own values. What anyone else has to say about it really doesn't matter.

[Mrs. John Adams]

A recent post in "Addicted to cheating on my wife" thread has reminded of past discussions which still haunt me & make reconciliation really hard for me.

 

The basic premise....

 

MM states that he cheated on his wife, once or repeatedly. Come D-day his wife doesn't leave. He looses respect for her, "If she was strong she would dump me!". In the past a member stated that he would always view his wife as being weak, pathetic because no self respecting person would stay in a marriage filled with adultery...His OW had long gone because he couldn't make a decision!

 

Esther Perel stated, "Staying is the new shame."

 

I often feel this way. Maybe I shouldn't read some of the forums here!! As a young woman I firmly believed that if any man treated me with such disrespect he wouldn't see me for dust!

 

Do cheating MM loose respect for wives that don't file for divorce? It haunts me.

 

Staying has taken more strength than I believed I could ever muster but now I'm feeling like a total looser to be honest. I've lost my faith, dreams, beliefs. I've lost so much of myself. Now I read MM/WS who have the audacity to consider their bs weak. WTF?!?!? Does the pain & humiliation ever end? It's beyond isolating & degrading.

 

SL....I think you are worrying entirely too much about what your WH thinks.

 

He made his choice. He cheated...albeit emotional long distance affairs ...TWICE. He has embarrassed you...he has hurt you....he disgraced you. and YET...you are worried what he THINKS about you.

 

Read what you wrote...REALLY READ IT.

 

Why does it matter any longer what he thinks of you? Why would you even care?

 

Do you understand that this man disrespected you....he did not care what you thought about him...so why do you care what he thinks about you?

 

I have watched you spin your wheels for a year....sitting in the same spot...asking the same questions over and over. What progress have you made? Honestly answer my question.

 

Let's look at your situation...and I want you to take your illnesses out of this equation. We all know of your horrible health...(which makes this whole thing even worse in my opinion) But I want you to just look at your situation with no sickness. Take away the fact that you live in a foreign country. Just look at your life minus all that.

 

If the only thing you had to battle...was HIS infidelity....would you have stayed? IF the ONLY thing you had to deal with was his infidelity...would you be worried about what he thinks of you?

 

Does your poor health and your location make you more vulnerable to staying? Does it make you more worrisome about what he thinks?

 

I want you...to take back your power. I want you to stand up to this man. I want you to tell this man that he should be GRATEFUL that you have put up with his shyt and stayed...not once but twice. I want you to understand how lucky this man is to have you...

 

I hurt for you every time you question the beautiful and intelligent and amazing person that you are. Please STOP giving him this power over you....please KNOW what we here all see....

 

A strong woman who is fighting not only for her life...but for her love and her family.

 

STOP worrying about what he thinks...because at the end of the day ...all that REALLY matters is what YOU think.

 

If you stand up for you...if you demand what you deserve...and he leaves you...WHAT HAVE YOU LOST?

 

IF he does not love you for who you are and what you are....then you are better off without him.

 

My sweet dear friend....please see you through my eyes....and stop trying to see you through his.

 

You are AMAZING...just ask your kids....

[dichotomy]

I have been married twice, one wife had a PA, my current wife had a EA (but the betrayal went beyond just an EA).

 

With my first wife, I was week, I stayed or hung on or clung on for 6 months after dDay. I was afraid of loosing her, wanted her to stay. I let her walk all over me. I am ashamed myself of this - even 15 years later. Ya - shame.

 

With my second marriage - there was no weakness after dDay. I stayed because I very carefully and analytically choose the least painful option - what was the best choice between. Also while I dealt with some self esteem issues for a while - I was the opposite of weak.. I yelled, established boundaries , pushed for changes, demanded respect, and more. Sometimes I am upset I put up with what happened and upset I am putting up with another loss right now - but I don't feel ashamed or regret the choice to stay this time. Still occasionally sad, mad - but no shame.

 

But I get what others might say (and have said) to me about me staying... and there is an element of shame that projects towards me. Heck when I read some of the posts here from B.S.'s I get worked up and often tell them to toss their WS on to the street ! but I don't really know them, their spouse, and their life. I try to advise them to think very rationally what choice - what life awaits them if the stay or leave - and choose the best (or least worst) choice for them.

Edited June 16, 2016 by dichotomy

[Moxie Lady]

Shattered Lady...

 

MrsA is right. You are one of the most amazing Ladies I have ever known.

 

Staying versus leaving. I know people say that they would never put up with this or that. The fact is that life isnt black and white, it just isnt. In the end you balance everything and make the best decision you can. It is easy for other people to say what they would do if they were in your life and walking in your shoes, the fact is they are not.

 

It isnt easy. I tried reconciliation for awhile but ultimately was not able to go thru with it. That ultimately was a lot more to do with him than with me.

 

Of course you care what your WS thinks and how he reacts to you. You are his wife. How could you possibly not care?

 

You must stop beating yourself up sweetie. You have been thru so very much. You are making the best decisions you can in a situation that is way less than optimal (no matter what you would have decided) and in a situation you in no way asked for or deserved.

 

You dont have to prove anything to anyone except to be true to yourself. You are a great mom and you have pulled yourself together despite all of this and continued to be a great mom. Part of me wonders if you are concerned what your WH thinks or if its really more about what you think others might be thinking - or second guessing yourself.

 

Yesterday is gone and today is just one day. You have lots of tomorrows and when living them you may end up changing your mind about your decision. Or you may not. All i can say is that I cant imagine how hard it must be to make peace with everything you are having to juggle. But yet here you are, being strong for other people on this forum and helping them even though you go thru your own pain. You are one of the people I most appreciate on this forum and who has helped me more than you know.

[Moxie Lady]

Esther Perel stated, "Staying is the new shame."

 

And BTW, I think this is utter nonsense.

[Lady Hamilton]

Some people think it's shameful to stay and reconcile.

 

Some think it's shameful to divorce.

 

If you're trying to find what song and dance makes everybody stand up and say "you did the right thing" you'll never find it.

 

Best to play the song you like and go from there.

 

If he loses respect over your staying, then it sounds to me like he's the problem, not you.

[oldshirt]

Interest topic SL. I haven't read any of the other posts yet because I want to make my posts while my thoughts are fresh in my mind but I will go back and read what others have said when I am done.

 

My first thought is that I do not believe that the disrespect from the WS that people talk about is realized as a conscious feeling of disrespect or contempt.

 

I think the ones that want to remain married to their BS are truly thankful and appreciative that they stayed. I do not believe that they look at their BS with contempt, disdain or any form of ill will or ill feelings.

 

I believe the disrespect that people refer to the WS having is more of a confidence that they can again cheat or mistreat the BS and have confidence that they will not leave. This in turn gives them license to cheat again when a good opportunity arises.

 

perhaps it is not really disrespect, but rather a lack of respect and lack of fear that their azz will be grass if it happens again.

 

This is much like a bully who picks on a victim and the victim does not fight back or retaliate and so the bully has reign to continue.

 

I think this is what people mean by the WS disrespecting the BS.

 

Does that make sense?

[ShatteredLady]

Dichotomy. Quote - "what life awaits them if the stay or leave - and choose the best (or least worst) choice for them.".

 

When you're a mother & a daughter that becomes more complicated. When you don't know how long you will live for its more complicated. When you couldn't sit through an interview, let alone do a job because your pain makes you collapse it's more complicated.

 

What's the "least worst choice" for a whole family that's crippled by tragedy trying to hold on desperately to what remains? What's the "least worse choice" when specialists can't identify the source of the "glandular cancer cells" in your body? When top surgeons tell you there's nothing to be done so you live in 24/7 pain & you fight constantly to hide your agony from everyone & it's still not good enough?

 

What support are all of those people on the Internet who are touched by the way I write going to be to my orphaned kids?

 

How am I not effected by the views of the person I've shared my whole adult life with? shared 26 years of my life with? The love of my WHOLE life?

 

When ALL you want is to be home with your ailing parents but a day spent sorting the house leaves you in such agony that you can hardly move for the rest of the week?

 

When you reach out to a couple of people IRL & they make you feel pathetic for not "Being STRONG", leaving & going where? Home to my parents getting close to 80 years old? Home to care for your Dad who's loosing his memory & your Mum who's had heart surgery when you can just about care for yourself & your kids? Home to a council house waiting list & disability allowance? A H who dreams of being a drop-out not earning so no child or spouse allowance?

 

Not to mention the suicide threats if I leave after watching my niece & nephews become broken delinquents after their fathers, my brothers suicide? That's exactly the future I want for my babies!!!

 

On this forum we advise this fantasy.... "Set them free to find someone who will truly love them". Ok how many men here go to dating sites & request divorced, crippled, chronic pain, middle aged cancer patients with young kids? REALLY??

 

It's a REALLY bad day! I just asked if MM have contempt for bs who stay. I have contempt for me!! Why wouldn't they??

[ShatteredLady]

Hugs Moxie Lady. You don't know how much you've helped. It's been a REALLY bad day, in a REALLY bad week, in a horrific year. I'm loosing the plot & you've been so kind.

[oldshirt]

Now in regard to the shame of staying, I do think there is something to that too.

 

There are just so many other options available to a BS now, it is really hard to justify staying with that kind of insult and mistreatment.

 

In our grandparents day, packing up and leaving a marriage meant scorn and contempt from friends, family, being kicked out of the church, perhaps even loss of employment.

 

In an era when few women worked outside the home and fewer yet made an independently liveable wage, Custody and alimony laws were such that women would almost always get the kids and the men would have to pay alimony and child support to the degree that both spouses were often living in poverty or near poverty after divorce and even though the men may have been paying child support, they may not have had much if any actual access to the children.

 

In days gone by, most people were married by the time they were in their mid 20s and there was not a large pool of available mates for full grown adults with children, so many divorced people and most divorced women did not remarry after divorce.

 

Divorces were largely reserved for those wealthy enough to afford them or for those who's abuse, adultery, addiction or abandonment where so extreme that people's actual physical safety or survival were at stake if they stayed.

 

That was our grandparents divorce. Today it's much different.

 

Today the assumption is that both husband and wife are able bodied and able to provide a living wage for themselves, if not immediately, then at least within a reasonable period of time.

 

Custody practices has shifted significantly and now some form of shared custody is the norm except in cases of potential harm or neglect to the children from one of one of the spouses.

 

Alimony/spousal support is much less commonplace and of less amount and lesser duration.

 

The social stigma associated with divorce has almost been completely eliminated and divorce is now so common that essentially all groups of people will have a variety of divorced parties within their memberships.

 

Along with that labor laws and policies of many religious organizations and other organizations now have policies in place barring the exclusion or barring the maltreatment of divorced people.

 

And while "....for the children.." was often the battle cry condemning divorce, actual sociological research has shown that divorces where both parents remain active, involved and supportive in their children's lives, children are not invariably harmed by divorce at all and in fact research has shown that children actually do better in divorce than they do in high conflict marriages.

 

And demographically for probably the first time in history, there are more single adults in the western world than there are married couples, meaning that most divorced people will have an opportunity to find another partner or even partners.

 

so add all those things up and there really is no reason to accept mistreatment from a spouse.

 

Our grandparents had limited choices and divorce may often result in a lifetime of a lesser standard of living than if they remain married even though the marriage sucked.

 

Today a couple may take an initial hit in economic status and lifestyle but most will recover than loss both economically and socially within a few years.

 

There for staying is a preference. it is saying you would prefer to stay with someone who has betrayed and dishonored you and exposed you to disease and potential offspring outside of the marriage rather than cut your losses and dealing with the short term expenses and disruption and making a better life for yourself.

 

I am not saying that staying is right or wrong, but I am saying that leaving due to maltreatment and betrayal is now a very valid and accessable option that long term often works out better for more people than ever before.

 

In our grandparents time, people really had to make a good argument on why they divorced.

 

Today I do think the burden of proof is on those to make the argument on why they stayed.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Dichotomy. Quote - "what life awaits them if the stay or leave - and choose the best (or least worst) choice for them.".

 

When you're a mother & a daughter that becomes more complicated. When you don't know how long you will live for its more complicated. When you couldn't sit through an interview, let alone do a job because your pain makes you collapse it's more complicated.

 

What's the "least worst choice" for a whole family that's crippled by tragedy trying to hold on desperately to what remains? What's the "least worse choice" when specialists can't identify the source of the "glandular cancer cells" in your body? When top surgeons tell you there's nothing to be done so you live in 24/7 pain & you fight constantly to hide your agony from everyone & it's still not good enough?

 

What support are all of those people on the Internet who are touched by the way I write going to be to my orphaned kids?

 

How am I not effected by the views of the person I've shared my whole adult life with? shared 26 years of my life with? The love of my WHOLE life?

 

When ALL you want is to be home with your ailing parents but a day spent sorting the house leaves you in such agony that you can hardly move for the rest of the week?

 

When you reach out to a couple of people IRL & they make you feel pathetic for not "Being STRONG", leaving & going where? Home to my parents getting close to 80 years old? Home to care for your Dad who's loosing his memory & your Mum who's had heart surgery when you can just about care for yourself & your kids? Home to a council house waiting list & disability allowance? A H who dreams of being a drop-out not earning so no child or spouse allowance?

 

Not to mention the suicide threats if I leave after watching my niece & nephews become broken delinquents after their fathers, my brothers suicide? That's exactly the future I want for my babies!!!

 

On this forum we advise this fantasy.... "Set them free to find someone who will truly love them". Ok how many men here go to dating sites & request divorced, crippled, chronic pain, middle aged cancer patients with young kids? REALLY??

 

It's a REALLY bad day! I just asked if MM have contempt for bs who stay. I have contempt for me!! Why wouldn't they??

 

Sweetheart...why do you have contempt for you? I do not for the life of me understand that statement. Do you not see a strong remarkable woman?

 

You have not failed...HE FAILED.

 

Please see YOU...separate you from him in your mind. You have remained loyal and faithful and loving.....what more could he ask from you? What more could you possibly give that you have not already given? You have given your LIFE to this man.

 

Ah..SL...you break my heart. How can this man make you feel like this...and how can you let him?

 

You are worth so much more than you know.....

[oldshirt]

And BTW, I think this is utter nonsense.

 

I don't.

 

While I don't think that people should actually be "shamed" for staying, I do think things have changed to the point that stayed should really be heavily thought out and all other options mindfully weighed with due diligence before making that decision.

 

I think in this day and age, one really should be able to articulate and justify why they are choosing to remain in any marriage that involves maltreatment.

 

I spelled out my thoughts in detail in post #11 so I won't rehash it here.

 

So while I do not believe that "shame" is the proper word for those who choose to stay, I do believe that will all options and possible outcomes available today, I do not think that remaining in the marriage should be the automatic, go-to, default option in the case of infidelity, abuse, addiction, maltreatment etc.

[Moxie Lady]

Today I do think the burden of proof is on those to make the argument on why they stayed.

 

The burden of proof? To make the argument of why they stayed? To who?

 

The ONLY person she needs to answer to is herself. Not you, not me, not anyone on this forum, not even her WS because it was him that put her in this position in the first place.

 

While I don't think that people should actually be "shamed" for staying, I do think things have changed to the point that stayed should really be heavily thought out and all other options mindfully weighed with due diligence before making that decision.

 

Well of course that is true. Are you suggesting she did not think this thru?

 

I think in this day and age, one really should be able to articulate and justify why they are choosing to remain in any marriage that involves maltreatment.

 

Articulate it to who?

 

I do not think that remaining in the marriage should be the automatic, go-to, default option in the case of infidelity, abuse, addiction, maltreatment etc.

 

Shattered has been here talking about this decision for MONTHS if not longer. The "go-to, default option?" Not even close.

 

I am not trying to be mean, you are entitled to your opinion. But the last thing Shattered needs is more crap dumped on her head for HER decision.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I understand the fear of not being good enough. I understand putting your fate in someone else's hands....someone who betrayed you. I understand...truly i do.

 

I know that my betrayal damaged my husband in a way I can never heal....and I know that there were many times he probably felt like you do SL....that he felt pathetic.....especially early in our reconciliation. We have talked about it...and he has told me that he felt like I had the upper hand and that he was begging. But SL...i never felt that way. I never ever saw him as weak...not once. I never saw him as pathetic.

 

Are there Waywards who view their betrayeds as you have described? I am sure there are. But I think I can safely say that those waywards who truly desire reconciliation....those who understand remorse...those who love and cherish their betrayeds...do NOT view them in the way you have described. I will even go a step further and say if a wayward spouse has this perception of their betrayed....they do not deserve the gift of reconciliation.

[oldshirt]

The burden of proof? To make the argument of why they stayed? To who?

 

The ONLY person she needs to answer to is herself. Not you, not me, not anyone on this forum, not even her WS because it was him that put her in this position in the first place.

 

 

 

Well of course that is true. Are you suggesting she did not think this thru?

 

 

 

Articulate it to who?

 

 

 

Shattered has been here talking about this decision for MONTHS if not longer. The "go-to, default option?" Not even close.

 

I am not trying to be mean, you are entitled to your opinion. But the last thing Shattered needs is more crap dumped on her head for HER decision.

 

I am not talking about Shattered Lady's specific situation at all.

 

She brought up the question of staying being the new shame and my little thesis is on why some people may think that it is so.

 

And I am not saying that people actually do need to justify their decisions on their marriage to other people. There for they do not really need to justify it or articulate it to anyone.........only themselves.

 

But I do think that for one's own sense of dignity and self worth, they do need to be able to articulate within themselves of why it is in their better interests to stay or to leave in the face of maltreatment.

 

Whether you leave or whether you stay, you don't have to justify it to your Aunt Matilda in Montana, but you do need to be able to live with yourself and sleep at night with that decision. IMHO part of that will being able to spell out to yourself why you made the decision you made.

[oldshirt]

and perhaps some of the reason staying is the new shame is on some level I think most all of us can envision wanting to stay and wanting things to be as they once were and so there for we can identify personally with those who stayed.

 

But when we read some of the horror stories here and see some horror stories firsthand in people we know in real life, and those people do stay and do tolerate horrible treatment and betrayal - we feel a sense of shame within ourselves because we can see how a part of us could break down and accept that as well and it makes us feel guilty and 'shame' ........ for them.

 

I'd like to think that I could stand up and be strong and take definitive action in the face of severe betrayal..... but there's no way I can be certain of that.

 

Perhaps when I see people accepting unacceptable treatment, I fear that I would do the same thing and I am shaken by that fear within myself.

[SammySammy]

I don't think staying makes you weak. I imagine it takes a lot more strength to stay than to leave.

 

Some people take their marriage vows seriously. Are willing to work through any problems no matter how difficult or shameful. "For better or worse."

 

A cheater should be grateful to have a partner like that. They need to be humble and respectful of the fact that someone is willing to forgive them despite being wronged.

[Moxie Lady]

I understand the fear of not being good enough. I understand putting your fate in someone else's hands....someone who betrayed you. I understand...truly i do.

 

I know that my betrayal damaged my husband in a way I can never heal....and I know that there were many times he probably felt like you do SL....that he felt pathetic.....especially early in our reconciliation. We have talked about it...and he has told me that he felt like I had the upper hand and that he was begging. But SL...i never felt that way. I never ever saw him as weak...not once. I never saw him as pathetic.

 

Are there Waywards who view their betrayeds as you have described? I am sure there are. But I think I can safely say that those waywards who truly desire reconciliation....those who understand remorse...those who love and cherish their betrayeds...do NOT view them in the way you have described. I will even go a step further and say if a wayward spouse has this perception of their betrayed....they do not deserve the gift of reconciliation.

 

I agree with this. (I always agree with you MrsA, another one of the best people here )

 

I would go so far as to say that it just sounds like blameshifting rubbish. WS disrespects her to unspeakable levels by having an affair, puts her in an absolutely impossible situation regarding what to do about it, then supposedly holds her in contempt if she decides to reconcile? Way to pass the blame.

 

Oldshirt, I hear you but I dont think you can answer such a question without considering the OPs situation and I also think its a no-brainer that lots of personal thought and self reflection has to go into such a decision.

[Moxie Lady]

and perhaps some of the reason staying is the new shame is on some level I think most all of us can envision wanting to stay and wanting things to be as they once were and so there for we can identify personally with those who stayed.

 

But when we read some of the horror stories here and see some horror stories firsthand in people we know in real life, and those people do stay and do tolerate horrible treatment and betrayal - we feel a sense of shame within ourselves because we can see how a part of us could break down and accept that as well and it makes us feel guilty and 'shame' ........ for them.

 

I'd like to think that I could stand up and be strong and take definitive action in the face of severe betrayal..... but there's no way I can be certain of that.

 

Perhaps when I see people accepting unacceptable treatment, I fear that I would do the same thing and I am shaken by that fear within myself.

 

I felt exactly the same way as Shattered at the same point in time after the affair. I had made the same decision. Eventually I changed my mind. We all have that option every day. Maybe she will change her mind, maybe she wont. Unlike Shattered my kids are grown not little and that would make a huge difference. Also unlike Shattered my family support doesnt live in another country.

[anika99]

I don't think staying makes you weak. I imagine it takes a lot more strength to stay than to leave.

 

Some people take their marriage vows seriously. Are willing to work through any problems no matter how difficult or shameful. "For better or worse."

 

A cheater should be grateful to have a partner like that. They need to be humble and respectful of the fact that someone is willing to forgive them despite being wronged.

 

I don't think anyone can really say it's weak to stay or it's weak to leave. Some people stay because they are strong, some people leave because they are strong. Some people stay because they are weak, some people leave because they are weak. It really depends on the individual circumstances. Some people really do stay married because they are afraid to leave, afraid to be alone and afraid of the unknown. Sometimes it takes a great deal of strength and bravery to leave.

[oldshirt]

I don't think staying makes you weak. I imagine it takes a lot more strength to stay than to leave.

 

Some people take their marriage vows seriously. Are willing to work through any problems no matter how difficult or shameful. "For better or worse."

 

A cheater should be grateful to have a partner like that. They need to be humble and respectful of the fact that someone is willing to forgive them despite being wronged.

 

I think it's a matter of context and what is taking place.

 

This is my own personal barometer but I do not see 'working on it' and "for better or worse" in the same light as I do infidelity or abuse etc.

 

for better or for worse is when someone loses a job or gets sick or injured.

 

Working on it is finding a system that works for getting household chores done fairly and effectively and coming to some kind of agreement on how the toilet paper goes on the roller and which end of the toothpaste to squeeze etc etc

 

Cheating, abuse, chemical abuse, cruelty, mistreatment etc etc are a whole different ball of wax.

 

Like all things in life, it's a matter of degrees. If someone's spouse gets a wild hair and slips into the broom closet at work for a little azz grabbing and kissy kissy and then they come to their senses and come clean and do the heavy lifting to fix the damage and they live happily ever after, good for them for being able to work through it and save the marriage.

 

But when it is an ongoing, LTA and there are multiple Ddays, multiple broken promises and false R's and continued lies etc, that's maltreatment. That's abuse.

 

IMHO "working on it" and "for better or for worse" is when two people, both sincere and both working in good faith are committed to fixing what is wrong and making it right again and both people are doing their fair share of heavy lifting. ongoing, or repetitive infidelity or false R etc, is different.

 

There is no shame in trying to fix the fixable. That is admirable in fact.

 

But accepting mistreatment and bad behavior because you don't want the trouble, expense and disruption of getting away from it, is a whole different matter.

 

Those relationships are toxic. They cause more harm than the benefit they provide. There comes a point when someone keeps drinking the poison, that you have to say enough is enough.

 

It's above my pay grade to say what that point is for other people. But for me, allowing one's self to continue to be mistreated is not acceptable.

[minimariah]

Do cheating MM loose respect for wives that don't file for divorce? It haunts me.

 

some do, some don't -- but i don't think it's about respect. when the affair is present, the respect is ALREADY gone. those who resent their spouses for staying usually wanted out of the marriage but didn't want to be the bad guy... they were cheering for a divorce but when it didn't happen... they became annoyed & angry at their spouses. but the respect was already gone.

[minimariah]

I don't think staying makes you weak.

 

+ divorce COSTS. i think a lot of people forget about that - many folks cannot divorce because they're financially dependent on their spouse + have small children and don't want to disrupt their lives. i actually believe many WOULD divorce if the kids weren't involved. and i think strength can be found in both staying and leaving, in equal measure.

[Midwestmissy]

I stayed. We are not reconciled but working on it. Some days are better than others. I often feel pathetic too, it's not linear. I've tried to articulate my reasons for staying to myself and to my therapist. I do not feel strong for my decision, yet I don't feel others who stay are weak at all. Here goes, in no particular (or exhaustive) order: I still love my husband. My kids begged me to try to work it out, at least try. I'll be damned if I'm going to see my kids for less time as a result of his decision to break the family unit, I've been a sahm for 18 years and I've never chosen another person over my kids, and frankly the result of my time with them has yielded huge returns as far as setting their futures in motion. I'm pretty flipping proud of them, I don't want to be told when I can see them. I appreciate the life I have, why should my situation change? If he was so miserable, he's free to go. This wasn't a love affair, which I think would be harder for me, it was the Union of an ego bruised boss and his employee - 2 icky people with no self respect. I'd never felt that disconnect in my marriage before, so I do believe this was a one-off situation. He confessed and documented everything. He told family and friends and took full responsibility, and knows he's accountable to people who love us. I believe all people are capable of affairs, not only monsters (serial cheating is a different animal), and I'm not above my husband, we are who we are due to the choices we've made. No one who knows me or us has taken me aside and said they believed I was making a mistake in staying. I didn't make my wh cheat - he was treating me like poo and I managed to make decisions that benefitted me and our family, not decisions to find ego stroking. He knows the affair is a result of his actions and choices only. He moved us very very far away from where this all happened.

 

The reasons I have for leaving are fewer: the specialness is gone from our story and history. I'll never have unconditional trust for him or anyone again. Sometimes the hurt overwhelms me and I want to run away and hide. I'm so ashamed and humiliated by what happened. The embarrassment kills me. I don't know if anyone in this world has my back. He brought a toxic disorder into my life - one I would never have encountered or interacted with. Ever. I sometimes can't look at him thinking that he chose to be with such a grotesque mess - I don't want to be associated with her in any way, and I am.

 

Some days I feel like I've got this, some days I still cry. It's coming up on about 2 yrs. Like when the mow shows up on my social media, or when I'm triggered by something. I think working on reconciling takes work every day - work and time that could have been used on protecting our marriage instead of putting it towards another relationship. Imagine what we would have had now.