katiegrl Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Yes, I find it immoral to tire kick or test drive. It's rather an out for some people who say this to just to get laid actually. The whole, "If you love me, you'll have sex with me" card. The motive behind this is disturbing. She's not obligated to do anything, but rest assured I'd consider her pretty much cold, lacks compassion, and cares nothing of the person. To toss a person aside like a rag doll is sad, but hey..."Good luck living with yourself." ;-) LOL you have a very strange way of looking at dating and interpreting things. No offense or disrespect, but I am not surprised that, after getting to know you a bit, women want to move on. You sound a bit exhausting with all your sanctimonious ideas of how things are supposed to be and how people are supposed to feel and act, and if they don't conform to your rigid expectations, there is something wrong with them. Wish you the best though, hope you eventually find someone who meets your standards! 1
RecentChange Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Yes, I find it immoral to tire kick or test drive. It's rather an out for some people who say this to just to get laid actually. The whole, "If you love me, you'll have sex with me" card. The motive behind this is disturbing. People still do this?!? Hahah there are threads on here about how sex is expected on the 3rd date, but they do not know if they should say I love you 3 months down the road. For many people sex does not equal love, sex does not insinuate love etc. Sometimes, sex is just sex. And that is why COMMUNICATION is important! Sure, if you are using someone, and lying, and saying "love" to get some sex, that is wrong. But for many of us, causal sex is not immoral, disturbing etc. I would be really bummed out if I waited for sex, until I was fully vested, and "in love" with some one - only to discover it sucks. Kinda like I am not going to plop down $35K on a car without a test drive first.
LookAtThisPOst Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 LOL you have a very strange way of looking at dating and interpreting things. No offense or disrespect, but I am not surprised that, after getting to know you a bit, women want to move on. You sound a bit exhausting with all your sanctimonious ideas of how things are supposed to be and how people are supposed to feel and act, and if they don't conform to your rigid expectations, there is something wrong with them. Wish you the best though, hope you eventually find someone who meets your standards! Yeah, well, I hope so, too. I do thank you for that.
LookAtThisPOst Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Kinda like I am not going to plop down $35K on a car without a test drive first. Well, you cannot objectify a human like you can a care. Not a good comparison. We're ABOVE that.
katiegrl Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 >>Well, you cannot objectify a human like you can a care. Not a good comparison. We're ABOVE that. ---- So are you suggesting that it's better to commit to a RL, only to realize that after sex, you are not compatible and there is little to no sexual compatibility? And don't wish to move forward? How is that better? Have you read these threads? This is a no win situation. Commit before sex, then end it immediately after when you realize there is nothing there sexually? And/or not compatible or the sex sucked? OR... Wait until you are sure you are compatible (both emotionally and sexually) before committing to a RL. Either way, the person is either a flake or immoral or whatever other negative words you used to describe such person. Can't win! 1
RecentChange Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 It's a metaphor. Before I invest my time, emotions and heart into someone, I want to see that we are compatable in all of the areas that matter to me. Sex REALLY matters to me. So no, I am not going to wait until I am in love to have sex. I am not going to allow myself to fall in love before we have sex. Obviously some people do not place a high importance on sex and wait till marriage etc. Neither view is wrong. Just different, and it would be best to date people who have the same view. You seem to place a high importance on a emotional connection before sex - and come off as pretty judgey against those who don't. My method has worked well for me. Never found dating much of a struggle. Not sure how effective your method has been for you. 2
funnyman7878 Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 >>Well, you cannot objectify a human like you can a care. Not a good comparison. We're ABOVE that. ---- So are you suggesting that it's better to commit to a RL, only to realize that after sex, you are not compatible and there is little to no sexual compatibility? And don't wish to move forward? sexual compatibility is not a static thing... you can be compatible initially and 2 years down the road become incompatible. People's drives and personalities change with time and even physical desire for that person may wane as you get used to them and everything becomes monotonous. This is an extremely common problem among couples. What are you going to do? It's a complex problem hence so many divorces and people in therapy. Just read the deadbedrooms forum on reddit... thread after thread reads something like "the sex was amazing and now it sucks!" The couples that have amazing physical and emotional chemistry that has endured for decades are just ridiculously lucky, unfortunately that is just rare. 1
Author LAtoChiGuy Posted June 13, 2016 Author Posted June 13, 2016 no sparks = the sex was not good you may have thought it was good but she apparently did not, so move on This might be a dumb question but how many times of bad sex does it take for someone to decide that the sex wasn't any good so there was no spark? Its not like we did it once then she broke it off. If it had been once or twice, I would agree with you but it wasn't. I've ended things / had things end plenty of times to sort of see the signals but not this time. And it sucks when that mystery confuses you.
xxoo Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 Ask yourself this: would you want to be with her if it meant she is longing for more?
RecentChange Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 This might be a dumb question but how many times of bad sex does it take for someone to decide that the sex wasn't any good so there was no spark? Its not like we did it once then she broke it off. If it had been once or twice, I would agree with you but it wasn't. I've ended things / had things end plenty of times to sort of see the signals but not this time. And it sucks when that mystery confuses you. It's probably more than just the sex. If I like someone, it's going to be pretty rare that the sex is terrible enough for me to say "never again!" But just kinda bla sex? Maybe even mechanically "good" but I have no passion for him etc - gonna keep having it until we break up . You said you dated for a month right? This stuff just happens.
BlueIris Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) Yes, I find it immoral to tire kick or test drive. It's rather an out for some people who say this to just to get laid actually. The whole, "If you love me, you'll have sex with me" card. The motive behind this is disturbing. She's not obligated to do anything, but rest assured I'd consider her pretty much cold, lacks compassion, and cares nothing of the person. To toss a person aside like a rag doll is sad, but hey..."Good luck living with yourself." ;-) How much of a commitment do you make? Had over your debit card and PIN first? Marry first? You might be kicking tires too without calling it that. This might be a dumb question but how many times of bad sex does it take for someone to decide that the sex wasn't any good so there was no spark? Its not like we did it once then she broke it off. If it had been once or twice, I would agree with you but it wasn't. I've ended things / had things end plenty of times to sort of see the signals but not this time. And it sucks when that mystery confuses you. Sometimes it isn't that it's "bad" so much as tentative with the potential to improve as you grow closer emotionally. So maybe it just wasn't evolving? Edited June 13, 2016 by BlueIris
katiegrl Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 sexual compatibility is not a static thing... you can be compatible initially and 2 years down the road become incompatible. People's drives and personalities change with time and even physical desire for that person may wane as you get used to them and everything becomes monotonous. This is an extremely common problem among couples. What are you going to do? It's a complex problem hence so many divorces and people in therapy. Just read the deadbedrooms forum on reddit... thread after thread reads something like "the sex was amazing and now it sucks!" The couples that have amazing physical and emotional chemistry that has endured for decades are just ridiculously lucky, unfortunately that is just rare. I realize that. My point was that according to LookatthisPOst, once someone feels chemistry/spark, and has sex, they're supposed to feel that way for the rest of their lives.... that they're not allowed to change their mind, or realize the chemistry died or that they're not compatible any longer. Whether that happens the next day or in ten years. Lest he deems that person flakey or not RL material or whatever.... I think that's wrong and a really piss poor way of looking at dating and relationships... JMO
Lady Hamilton Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) I was in relationships where we were together a few months, but then I dumped them after having sex over not feeling "the spark." Usually it meant the relationship was good on paper and I didn't dislike the guy, but I wasn't hugely into him either. Then, after gaving sex and there is still no profound feeling of attachment or attraction, I'd end the relationship. Or the above, but we had sex, maybe even a few times... And we didn't mesh sexually, so I'd end the relationship having not felt "the spark." Such is dating. If I had been accused of being cold and not into the person... Well... Duh. Hence feeling nothing special between us and ending the relationship. Edited June 13, 2016 by Lady Hamilton 3
neowulf Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 I think people try very very hard to make things more complicated than they are. Feelings aren't these neat, sensible, logical things that people always have a good grip on. They are fluid, fleeting, overwhelming and sometimes confusing. All that really matters is what someone tells you. She's no longer interested in a relationship. Attempting to "make sense" of her reasons won't bring you comfort. It doesn't matter what her reasons are. The outcome is exactly the same. I swear, the more people demand these things "make sense" the more they tie themselves in knots. 3
LookAtThisPOst Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 So are you suggesting that it's better to commit to a RL, only to realize that after sex, you are not compatible and there is little to no sexual compatibility? And don't wish to move forward? Not sure what the issue is, this is something that can be learned if communicated properly what one desires in the bedroom. Overtime and with proper instruction and communication, this is something that could be overcomed. Oh wait, I can hear the superficial remarks now, "I don't want to have to teach anyone anything. I'm lazy!"
LookAtThisPOst Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 sexual compatibility is not a static thing... you can be compatible initially and 2 years down the road become incompatible. People's drives and personalities change with time and even physical desire for that person may wane as you get used to them and everything becomes monotonous. This is an extremely common problem among couples. What are you going to do? It's a complex problem hence so many divorces and people in therapy. Just read the deadbedrooms forum on reddit... thread after thread reads something like "the sex was amazing and now it sucks!" The couples that have amazing physical and emotional chemistry that has endured for decades are just ridiculously lucky, unfortunately that is just rare. Good point, too. Things can change over a few years, so why "test drive" now? Makes it moot.
LookAtThisPOst Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 I realize that. My point was that according to LookatthisPOst, once someone feels chemistry/spark, and has sex, they're supposed to feel that way for the rest of their lives.... that they're not allowed to change their mind, or realize the chemistry died or that they're not compatible any longer. Whether that happens the next day or in ten years. Lest he deems that person flakey or not RL material or whatever.... I think that's wrong and a really piss poor way of looking at dating and relationships... JMO Didn't say they weren't "allowed to change their minds", I said they CAN change their minds, but I'd pretty much write them off as someone that isn't long term and esp. marriage material. Too selfish.
xxoo Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Not sure what the issue is, this is something that can be learned if communicated properly what one desires in the bedroom. Overtime and with proper instruction and communication, this is something that could be overcomed. Oh wait, I can hear the superficial remarks now, "I don't want to have to teach anyone anything. I'm lazy!" It's not always possible to overcome without become a completely different person. Not everything is teachable, or else spark would be teachable.
LookAtThisPOst Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Not everything is teachable, or else spark would be teachable. Right, I think there are things that some people don't happen to have an aptitude for like dancing salsa, flying a plane, etc, but something as natural as sex? You really buy that its unteachable? I sure don't. Except if someone is unwilling to learn.
katiegrl Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Didn't say they weren't "allowed to change their minds", I said they CAN change their minds, but I'd pretty much write them off as someone that isn't long term and esp. marriage material. Too selfish. That's what I said, that they're not allowed to change their minds, LEST you deem them flakey, not worthy of a RL etc. Which you just admitted to.
xxoo Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Right, I think there are things that some people don't happen to have an aptitude for like dancing salsa, flying a plane, etc, but something as natural as sex? You really buy that its unteachable? I sure don't. But we're talking about spark. Chemistry. The exact same touch A with part B will be exciting with one man and unsatisfying with another, simply because of that chemistry. To teach chemistry, for me, would be instruction more like be dominant in bed. Which, if I'm telling you how to do it, is the exact opposite of being dominant 4
RecentChange Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) Not sure what the issue is, this is something that can be learned if communicated properly what one desires in the bedroom. Overtime and with proper instruction and communication, this is something that could be overcomed. Oh wait, I can hear the superficial remarks now, "I don't want to have to teach anyone anything. I'm lazy!" I don't agree with this really. How many successful long term relationships have you had? Did you ever have a lack of chemistry and sexual compatibility that was over come? Discovering and communicating a new found kink for example os one thing. A lack of passion / spark / chemistry is another. What is your actual real world experience with such a thing? Edited June 14, 2016 by RecentChange 5
xxoo Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 I'll add that I have maintained passion for 20+years of marriage, going strong, but I've also experienced just "dud" chemistry in the past when dating. It's pretty obviously when it's not there. Square peg, meet round hole. 3
katiegrl Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 Not sure what the issue is, this is something that can be learned if communicated properly what one desires in the bedroom. Overtime and with proper instruction and communication, this is something that could be overcomed. Oh wait, I can hear the superficial remarks now, "I don't want to have to teach anyone anything. I'm lazy!" Instruction and communication? You are talking technique. Chemistry is emotional, an energy.... it has zero to do with technique, come on now. You cannot instruct someone on how to feel sexual chemistry or any other type of chemistry. I am beginning to wonder if you've ever felt genuine chemistry with another human being.... it certainly does not sound like you have.... 5
RecentChange Posted June 14, 2016 Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) Yeah sexual chemistry is complicated and honestly kinda mysterious thing. I have found PASSION in unexpected places. And had none where I would have really liked there to be some. And yes, after 15 years, the spark, the chemistry is still there in my relationship (but I will admit that garden was weeded and watered to return it to that state), but if the chemistry and passion wasn't there in the first place, I don't think I could have ever created it. This is different than simple sexual gratification which I find easy to achieve with someone I do not have a passion for (LUST yes, different than compatibility/ chemistry). It's easy to learn the mechanics, creating the psychological response is a whole 'nuther story. Edited to add... after reading this first post. I am gonna stop arguing. We have VERY different experiences when it comes to relationships and chemistry. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/transitioning/search/503467-once-prepared-love-but-now-no-chemistry Edited June 14, 2016 by RecentChange 1
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