What Happens When You Date 'Out of Your League'

[GoodOnPaper]

It takes many years for people to be able to truly define this in someone they are with.

 

How is it possible early in a dating cycle for someone to clue in to these traits you define?

 

Having said that, I (had a gut feeling that...)all of these traits I saw in my second wife, but it took years to confirm that, that was luck however.

 

I think you answered your own question. Luck guided by experience and that gut feeling is all you can go on early on. And isn't the notion of "leagues" really tied to the superficial and whatever can become apparent very early on? I only notice "leagues" being brought up in two contexts: 1) when someone judges at-a-glance the relative attractiveness two other people who are a couple, and 2) when someone is gauging whether to approach (or allow to be approached by) someone. Once you start really getting to know someone, it becomes a matter of individual taste and compatibility.

[Larryville]

Been having some interesting discussions with friends on this and was sent this article:

Online Dating and the Death of the 'Mixed-Attractiveness' Couple

 

"We think we have highly idiosyncratic preferences,” psychologist Paul Eastwick has said of dating, “but there's just no compelling evidence that those preferences [matter] once people actually meet face-to-face.” Experiments run by OKCupid, a dating site that matches singles by asking them which qualities they care about in a partner, support this idea.

Instead it’s well established among academics interested in dating that “opposites attract” is a myth. Study after study supports the idea of “assortative mating”: the hypothesis that people generally date and marry partners who are like them in terms of social class, educational background, race, personality, and, of course, attractiveness.

 

To use fratboy vernacular: 7s date other 7s, and a 3 has no chance with a 10.

Another earlier discussion with these same friends had us all doing what I can only describe as a dating “spreadsheet” and the bottom line was the notion of “out of your league” was a matter of individual perception.

 

Kinda what Too stated:

 

If you base your self worth on your looks then you are on a sure path to failure.

 

If you base your self worth on WHO you are and like and are proud of who you are then you do not need to worry about the leagues.

 

And

 

isn't the notion of "leagues" really tied to the superficial and whatever can become apparent very early on?

 

My first wife was very “beautiful”, much older (9 years) I thought I was dating out of my league (as a 19 year old) simply because she was so attractive. But at the time she had two kids was struggling financially, working two jobs and at the time she did not have a ton of self-esteem. She was always telling me how wonderful I was.

 

Second wife, attractive (again much older) high profile state attorney, very popular with colleagues friends with high profile politicians ect again I thought I was dating “out of my league” AND her high profile friends wondered why she was with me, but we were highly compatible, as good a match as two people could be. I guess about getting past the superficial.

 

My first criteria is that we have mutual chemistry and a connection (emotional, physical, spiritual)

 

Is what truly matters.

[Liam1]

 

 

The question I have for the masses is how does someone measure their own worth?

 

Are people truly honest about their own looks?

 

It is difficult to be honest enough with yourself to assess your own looks. If you are perceptive you can however assess your level of attractiveness to the opposite sex

 

One way to assess your level of attractiveness, IMO, is to note how many woman come on to you when you are out at a party or health club or a bar.

 

If you aren't sure if these women are simply friend zoning you, ask your friends for their opinions. An outside perspective is usually able to be more objective.

 

When a person is attracted to another person they have a look on their face that psychologists refer to as the "limbic look" google it. This Limbic look will be noticed by your freinds, if you are in denial about it or naive about it.

 

It's quite obvious to others when someone is attracted to another person.

 

Do you/we pursue those who are similar to ourselves in terms of education, looks, finances or do people overlook or simply don’t care about those things?

I think people are always attracted to other attractive people. If a person has a lot of confidence, they may pursue a person who is "out of their league"

 

I agree with the article that relationships work best when both people are the same on the looks scale and similar in education and familial background.

 

They also work best when the man earns more than the woman

[BC1980]

Dating out of your league can be defined differently. I think of my last relationship was a good example. I was quite a bit younger and better looking than my ex. A lot of my friends would tell me I could do better. One even flat out told me, you're too pretty to be with him. Because honestly, he was not cute. Not by any objective standards. I'm not saying I'm some great beauty. I think I'm kind of average looking.people would look at him and think he just looks like such a geek. But I've always been attracted to those types. Like, literally, he looks like a dude that would have a pocket protector.

 

But looking at it a different way, you might say I was out of his league. He was a physician who made a lot more money than me. He had a lot more financial assets. So I can see how some people might've thought only dated him for that reason. Intellectually, we were in the same league, but we had studied in different fields. So there was somewhat of an odd mismatch there. I couldn't keep up with him when he talked about his work. My knowledge just wasn't up to par.

[Toodaloo]

Larry.

 

Its not about quantities. You can't put quantities on things.

 

Some people say I am so smart it frightens them. Others say I am so dim witted it frightens them... Truth is I am both! I can do things that make others go wow and I can do things that make others wonder how I was bright enough to learn to breathe in and out...

 

Its perspective.

 

Different people value different things.

 

I have found that many of the men I have dated are considered really hunky and handsome by others. I guess in their own ways they are. I however have dated for personality each and every time. Yes I have found them attractive but it wasn't their looks - it was that Je nas c'est qui that made them who they are...

 

My current beau and I were having a discussion. He wanted to know why I have never pushed myself academically and why I am happy doing what I do because he knows I am much smarter, in his eyes "worth more". He was highly frustrated with me.

 

Truth is. I have a roof over my head. I have food in my belly. I have a car that gets me from A to B. None of it needs to be flash or massive or there to make the neighbours jealous because money to me is completely unimportant.

 

He asked why I was so happy when I haven't accomplished anything.

 

So I told him. My accomplishments are not monetary. Because of me others have food in their bellies when they would have had starved. People have developed respect and pride in themselves when they didn't think they were worth anything becuase of me. The day I die I will not be able to take flash cars and big fancy houses with me. I will however be able to take a heck of a lot of love from all the lives I have touched in a positive way... I am proud of that and I enjoy it. It is who I am.

 

While having flash cars and a big house is important to him and gives him a sense of self worth. Having open arms and a ready smile is important to me and gives me a sense of self worth... Do you see where I am going with this now?

 

People all have very different views.

 

The above may actually cause some problems later as he has told me he eventually wants to buy me a new car... I don't want a new car and am very happy in my old jalopy thank you very much!

[Liam1]

My first wife was very “beautiful”, much older (9 years) I thought I was dating out of my league (as a 19 year old) simply because she was so attractive. But at the time she had two kids was struggling financially, working two jobs and at the time she did not have a ton of self-esteem. She was always telling me how wonderful I was.

 

Second wife, attractive (again much older) high profile state attorney, very popular with colleagues friends with high profile politicians ect again I thought I was dating “out of my league” AND her high profile friends wondered why she was with me, but we were highly compatible, as good a match as two people could be. I guess about getting past the superficial.

.

 

Why did these two marriages end? Are you a widower?

 

If not, if the marriages simply ended in divorce than the failure of those two marriages proves the statements in the articles that marriages work out best when both partners are in the same league.

 

If not, if you lost your mates to death, rather than divorce, than your two successful marriages prove the articles are incorrect......at least in your case.

 

Here is what my experience has been: My wife an I are both similar on the looks scale and education wise and family background.

 

We married for love. Our marriage has lasted and survived an affair.

 

On the other hand, my FOW married her husband for money. She said she never found him attractive.

 

Because of that she has had numerous affairs and plans to leave her husband, if she meets someone who has the looks and money she craves and who also wants to marry her.

 

So the answer to my question will give you the answer to whether or not the articles you site are correct.

[Larryville]

I agree with the article that relationships work best when both people are the same on the looks scale and similar in education and familial background.

 

They also work best when the man earns more than the woman

 

Ok Liam gonna throw out a curveball.

 

Several women I have dated… we were equal in looks, but all made “significantly more” than I did. I grew up in a financially secure upper middle class household, my dad made significant money for a time.

 

All of these women I dated all stated that they grew up “relatively” poor. Money as a status thing means nothing to me at all, all of these women their friends (talking more specifically about wife #2) looking at us did not see us as on the same level.

 

These women valued what they had but were not money driven...

 

I have a great job, very visible job but I don’t make that much money, people finding out where I work might think I make much more but the “status” of the job is only in people’s heads or superficial.

 

My point is the 'Out of Your League' more of a perception of others… kinda like…

 

I have found that many of the men I have dated are considered really hunky and handsome by others. I guess in their own ways they are. I however have dated for personality each and every time. Yes I have found them attractive but it wasn't their looks - it was that Je nas c'est qui that made them who they are...

 

This almost goes to another question do people pay close attention to how (others) might perceive them when choosing who to date?

[Liam1]

I agree with the article that relationships work best when both people are the same on the looks scale and similar in education and familial background.

 

 

 

Ok Liam gonna throw out a curveball.

 

Several women I have dated… we were equal in looks, but all made “significantly more” than I did. I grew up in a financially secure upper middle class household, my dad made significant money for a time.

 

All of these women I dated all stated that they grew up “relatively” poor. Money as a status thing means nothing to me at all, all of these women their friends (talking more specifically about wife #2) looking at us did not see us as on the same level.

 

These women valued what they had but were not money driven...

 

I have a great job, very visible job but I don’t make that much money, people finding out where I work might think I make much more but the “status” of the job is only in people’s heads or superficial.

 

My point is the 'Out of Your League' more of a perception of others… kinda like…

 

I am pretty sure the studies show that in long term marriage, if the wife earns more, it often is a reason for divorce.

 

Not all marriages where the wife earns more will fail, but more of them do.

 

The reason is that the woman may lose respect for the man, if she earns too much more.

 

Another reason is the man's ego can not handle the fact that she earns more and it ruins the relationship.

 

 

This almost goes to another question do people pay close attention to how (others) might perceive them when choosing who to date?

Interesting that you ask this because I just read an article somewhere that mentions this and the answer was that it depends on the individual.

 

Some people do care about the perception others have of their mates or GFs, so some do pay attention.

 

Some of these people are of the mindset, apparently, that a higher quality mate in all aspects reflects on them. In other words, if their mate is high-quality, it makes them feel that others perceive them as a better mate, too.

 

Other people sometimes prefer a mate that is perceived to be of lesser quality then they because in their minds it eliminates competition.

 

The article stated, though, that not everyone uses other people's perceptions as a selection criteria for a mate.

[GoodOnPaper]

This almost goes to another question do people pay close attention to how (others) might perceive them when choosing who to date?

 

Sure, especially in our frontal-cortex-formative years. The conflictedness I had about getting together with my wife was all about what others would think of me dating someone so heavy ... But I was 23 when life centered around how good you were socially. Now I'm pushing 50 and raising a family - who cares about that kind of thing at that stage? If I found myself single now, my approach to finding a partner would be very different.

[Emilia]

I think leagues don't exist that strongly when it's about getting laid or 'see how it goes' but when it comes to actual LTR/marriage, they do exist very much.

[Larryville]

Why did these two marriages end? Are you a widower?

 

The ending of both of these marriages is a much MUCH deeper story, but bottom line was outside factors contributed significantly in addition it was more about what (I) did not do correctly more than anything they did.

 

Both did all they could to try and save both situations while I basically threw in the towel. Explains why post second divorce I really spent considerable time psychoanalyzing, studying and reading so much material part of my INTJ and obsessive mentality… LOL!

 

This is also why dating post-divorce has been so difficult I have essentially been trying to find elements of both wives, especially wife number two and that is exactly why I am basically doomed in the dating game.

[Leigh 87]

The thing about true love is,

 

Okay. So I am NOT a dead average universal plane Jane; I am a little cuter, but not gorgeous or beautiful or much better than average, either.

 

Yet I have met men.. LOOOOOTS of men.. who happened to LIKE.. as in fall INSTANTLY for my certain look.

 

So... What does that say about leagues, when I have had cute, decebt men with sucessful careers, think I am gorgeous, beautiful, and enough of a woman for them to have felt instantly enamoured by me? DESPITE the fact I am nothing special to the vast majority of people?

 

Leagues exists to a degree, but only on the extreme ends of the spectrum! Yes a short bald guy would not usually end up with a stunning oung hot model look alike. We all know this.

 

The rest of us? The descrepency in our looks is not.. PRONOUNCED enough for ys to really... notice?

 

I mean...... I admit that 2 men I had chemistry with told me I was out of their leagues - but that was because one was chubby and didn't believe himself to be worthy if a woman that he deemed as gorgeous. The other guy just didn't think he was very good looking, and therefore didn't think a girl that he DID think ws hot was in his league.

 

All in all though - LOOKS ARE SUBJECTIVE because how come some people think I am ugly, whilst I just as easily find people whio have told me that I am gorgeous?

 

So... I sorta think that it is the kind of person you are, how you carry yourelf and how you go about your life - that counts. A relatively non descript woman like myself - can find some peopel who think I am stunning, and others who think I am ugly and just as many who think I am average.

 

So while one person may think you are in a lower league - 5 others could disagree?

 

My ex's mates told him that I was not at his level - and yet my friends all thought I was the hot one in the relationship? And yet men after him, I discovered that there WERE actually men who thought I was a babe, as oppsed to my ex who thought he was too good for me?

 

I do not really believe in leagues aside from the extremeeee examples as in the 5 feet tall toothless guy with the 5 ' 10 model look alike.

[Leigh 87]

oh - and that ex of mine thought he was too good for me - because he was not into me.

 

If he fell head over heels for me - as he did for his ex prior to me who was about equal attractivness to me - he would not have thought about my league.

 

Men truly in love either do not think about leagues, or they think they have landed a hottie if anything!

 

I do not feel that a man who truly fell hard for a girl could ever think he was above her league look wise.

[Leigh 87]

I think leagues don't exist that strongly when it's about getting laid or 'see how it goes' but when it comes to actual LTR/marriage, they do exist very much.

 

then how come men who had successful jobs and were nice and funny and decent, cute men, wanted long term R's leading to marriage with me, despite the fact I was a travel junkie with no job as it stands and studying podiatry ?

 

Why would a successful guy want a college student as a long termer if leagues were that prominent?

 

To them I was hot and they felt lucky to have me, despite the fact that on paper, I had no money and no job?

 

I am cute but def not gorgeous enough to warrant an overlook of my life situation!

[clia]

then how come men who had successful jobs and were nice and funny and decent, cute men, wanted long term R's leading to marriage with me, despite the fact I was a travel junkie with no job as it stands and studying podiatry ?

 

Why would a successful guy want a college student as a long termer if leagues were that prominent?

 

To them I was hot and they felt lucky to have me, despite the fact that on paper, I had no money and no job?

 

I am cute but def not gorgeous enough to warrant an overlook of my life situation!

 

In my opinion, men put much more weight on looks than career or financial success when it comes to women. So, if those men were attracted to your looks, that far outweighs your other situation for those men.

 

But honestly, did you date any of these guys beyond a "honeymoon" stage? You have no way of knowing if they would've ended up marrying you or staying with you long term. Blowing smoke in the early stages often leads to nothing. A lot of guys talk the talk to get a girl into bed.

[Emilia]

then how come men who had successful jobs and were nice and funny and decent, cute men, wanted long term R's leading to marriage with me, despite the fact I was a travel junkie with no job as it stands and studying podiatry ?

 

Why would a successful guy want a college student as a long termer if leagues were that prominent?

 

To them I was hot and they felt lucky to have me, despite the fact that on paper, I had no money and no job?

 

I am cute but def not gorgeous enough to warrant an overlook of my life situation!

No idea. Since you always only post about yourself, I rarely read any of it.

[Leigh 87]

In my opinion, men put much more weight on looks than career or financial success when it comes to women. So, if those men were attracted to your looks, that far outweighs your other situation for those men.

 

But honestly, did you date any of these guys beyond a "honeymoon" stage? You have no way of knowing if they would've ended up marrying you or staying with you long term. Blowing smoke in the early stages often leads to nothing. A lot of guys talk the talk to get a girl into bed.

 

The point was.... they didnt think I was below their league due to being a broke student?

 

They honestly didnt give a darn- they were after love.

 

They were actually very impressed when I got good grades in my difficult degree despite that fact it wasnt " successful" or " lucrative" or career driven.

 

They fell for me for me. Not my credentials.

[Leigh 87]

No idea. Since you always only post about yourself, I rarely read any of it.

 

Well I have kinda just proven that leagues mustnt exist aside from the extreme ends of the spectrum.

 

If status and success and careers are soooooo important, then why do I get just as many men into me as my professional friends? Despite being a broke college student? I definately have as many men into me as my professional friends.

 

Just because my friends are professionals that doesnt mean we speak a different language or that there is a difference in our intellect and capacity to be pleasant to be around!

If leagues were a big thing then surely men with good careers would not be intersested in me, if they were concerned about LEAGUES.

 

Maybe... just maybe, leagues are for shallow people?

 

Just because someone isnt a success on paper that doesnt mean they are below a certain league. Maybe men like that I am cultured and well travelled and have lived in a few countries and therfore have a different outlook to what they are accustomed ti with the local " successful" women?

 

And lastly, you do realise that " successful " women and men can be less intelligent and less interesting than those who are " on a higher league" on paper? Leages are so black and white sounding. Career. Success. Money. What about the bright peopoe who chose a life of travel for their 20 and easy money rather than college? Are those people ar a " lower league" simply because on paper they are " without a degree" or " without a career", what if these people had lived an amazing life, given loads to charity, went to colege and did the " good on paper" stuff later in life?

 

I find it very limiting of people to ASSUME someones league due to their bank balance or current carer status!!!! People without the " good on paper " stuff are often just as smart and interesting as the so called " higher league" folks.

 

I mean..my friends are all professionals? I never saw my " status" as making me in a " lower league" ??? I actually did a lot better in school than my professional friends so I fail to see why they are " more valuable" or better or smarter than I am and therfore entitled to a higher proportion of available men????

 

How the feck do men SENSE that hey, Leigh 87s mate has a masters and Leigh 87 is tberfore a lower league? Do you guys all realise how dumb that sounds? Men interact with women they fall for IRRESPECTIVE of what the woman is in paper! People are more than their status. At the end of the day, it us about two adults being able to interact and fall for one another; status and leagues do not limit interpersonal relationships. How you interact and fall for ine another transcends what you bank balance or career is.I dated pHD holders and my so called " low league" was not evident since I am smart enough to have meaningful interactions with them! They even gave me the compliment that they thought I was intelligent!

 

People do not fall for a resume!!!!!!!

[Leigh 87]

To the ladies that think leagues exist.

 

I challenge the professionals to see whether or not they can necessarily get more men to fall in love with them and want to date them then my " low league"" college student but can!

 

I bet good money that the abiity of a women to attract and keep men is based in their looks, intelligence and demeanour, among other desirabme and UN TANGIABLE attributes.

 

Men will go for a the look they fancy in a woman; which is highly subjective!

 

And then it is their ineractions that cement things! Not what both parties have achieved on paper.

 

It is totally the wrong way to go about things if we are to only pair off with people at " our level" career wise......

 

That is how passionless marriages arise! They go for Mr or Miss good on paper despite no personal or sexual chenmistry!

[GunslingerRoland]

I don't think men care as much about the education/career of women as women tend to about men. However I do still think there tends to be a lot of similarity in the education levels for most people when it comes to dating.

 

 

Like Leigh said it doesn't matter if one person has a PHD and the other doesn't, if they can both have an intelligent conversation at the same level. But even though in North America classes don't exist to the same degree they do in other parts of the world, generally when you meet a group of people with common interests the education levels tend to line up more often than not.

 

 

As for looks, there is a very wide range of looks and while everyone has their individual preferences I'd say in general most people find most of the same people attractive. Of course you can debate if a girl like Leigh is a 7, 8 or 9 depending on your personal preference. But if you picked 100 random women off the street, you'd still probably find that 90% of those women are less attractive then her. Same goes for men, lots of varying degrees of unattractive people out there.

[Leigh 87]

I don't think men care as much about the education/career of women as women tend to about men. However I do still think there tends to be a lot of similarity in the education levels for most people when it comes to dating.

 

 

Like Leigh said it doesn't matter if one person has a PHD and the other doesn't, if they can both have an intelligent conversation at the same level. But even though in North America classes don't exist to the same degree they do in other parts of the world, generally when you meet a group of people with common interests the education levels tend to line up more often than not.

 

 

As for looks, there is a very wide range of looks and while everyone has their individual preferences I'd say in general most people find most of the same people attractive. Of course you can debate if a girl like Leigh is a 7, 8 or 9 depending on your personal preference. But if you picked 100 random women off the street, you'd still probably find that 90% of those women are less attractive then her. Same goes for men, lots of varying degrees of unattractive people out there.

 

 

Leagues may not exist except in extreme circunstances, however, most people know a few key things:

 

They know they arent drop dead gorgeous

 

They know they are not hideous

 

They know the types of people they click with intellectually

 

They have bare minimum standards; mine was that the guy had to be full time employed or studying, great chemistry and simply clicking. Oh and no criminal record of a serious degree beyond a DUI and speeding fines.

 

There is no... exact science to leagues beyond the very obvious super models do not get wit 5 foot men that live with their mothers at age 40. As I said, my ex's mates all thought I wasnt in his league. Where as my friends thought I was the hot one. All because his mates didnt like my Euopean long nosed look, where as my friends liked my look and felt the button nosed blonde haired tanned and skinny women werent that remarkable look wise.

 

I used to confine myself to leagues. A professor actually dropped me because of it; I didnt feel good enough. I spent my 20s in dead end jobs travelling the world every year. Only going to uni at age 30 in the end. He felt super uncomfortabme that I viewed him as a too good for me jock/ sculpted, funny professor / soccer player.

His soon to be fiance is not who I would consider conventionally stunning either. My friends think I am more attractive. She is also a " lowly mature aged student".

We didnt date long and we remained friends. He told me that he went for what his heart wanted and saw me and his exes as very beautiful and intelligent women.

 

He even told me that if I chose to get a waitressing gig during college, that he woukd dine at my restaurant and show me off to his friends. He had also dated lawyers and doctors.

 

I have since stopped with this leagues bullcrap!

 

Thanks so much for your kind words by the way! Just as many people think I am plain or ugly as they deem me a beauty. The fact I seek out men who fall for me and think I am attractive, thankfully, means that I enjoy an EQUAL dating experience, where we both feel lucky to have each other.

 

There have been 2 occasions where the guy thought I was out of his league-- I prefered this scenario to my ex who felt I was BELOW his league:lmao: although I love how my current bf sees me as.... me. An equal. Not a girl that was too hot for him although he did feel a lot of instant attraction to me.

 

On the other hand, my mate has a fiance who thinks she is above his league since she is a stunner and has a masters degree at age 23. She put travel on hold and didnt leave the country until last month due to putting her career first. He views her as way above his league and it shows. It is sweet as he is absolutelt enamored, however, he bends to her every whim: she says jump and he askes how high. He doesnt let her buy her own food or drinks if they are together---- he just truly worships her like a God, as he cannot believe she " picked him". He wouldnt cal her on her crap as he thinks her **** doesnt stink.

 

Where as my bf and I feel like equals. We have both dated hot exes, and arent ugly yet we know we are not totally beautiful. He always tells me how beautiful he thinks I am.. we bith had instant chemistry and are spectacularly attracted to one another. We are literally smitten with each others look. But there are no league imbalaces! We do not kiss the ground each other walks on for the fact twe are " punching above our weight" and have to impress and dote on them!!!!!

 

My bf is no doubt just as attracted to me as my mates bf is to her. The difference in their mentalities is stark: my friends fiance is sooooo shockerld she gave him the time of day and treats her like a pampered princess where as my bf still pays for the dates ans treats me like a princess, but he sees me as a flawed, imperfect person who he doesnt have to feel " shocked" to have landed! I mean, my bf feels lucky to have me but doesnt feel " shocked" that I paid him attention, although he was very nervous since he was very attracted to me and was worried about his general impressions.

 

My friend and her fiance are blissfully happy despite the fact ther him and HER family all think that she is out of his league.

 

I have dated men who thought I was out of ther league. And who I thought were out of my leage at the time.

 

 

It is really interesting to see the dynamics between a couple who have one or both partbers who actually think there is a league discrepency! Within their own relationship!

[Liam1]

I don't think men care as much about the education/career of women as women tend to about men. However I do still think there tends to be a lot of similarity in the education levels for most people when it comes to dating.

 

Good points, Roland and a lot of other good points made by others in this thread.

 

IMO, the league thing, as has been mentioned, mainly applies to a long term marriage. The studies show that when people are close to equal in looks, intellectual capacity, and come from similar backgrounds, those are the marriages that tend to survive the long haul and ups and downs of a typical long term marriage.

 

Dating is a whole 'nother ball game. None of the above may apply to a relationship that is a dating situation without marriage in mind.

 

 

As for looks, there is a very wide range of looks and while everyone has their individual preferences I'd say in general most people find most of the same people attractive. Of course you can debate if a girl like Leigh is a 7, 8 or 9 depending on your personal preference. But if you picked 100 random women off the street, you'd still probably find that 90% of those women are less attractive then her. Same goes for men, lots of varying degrees of unattractive people out there.

I agree. Also Leigh sells herself a bit short, likely due to her youth and inexperience with life. Leigh may not be wearing a lot of make up and thus people may describe her as plain rather than flashy, but not all men like flashy.

 

A person can be pretty and plain or pretty and flashy, or just plain or just flashy.

 

Leigh is pretty but may have described herself as plain because she is not wearing a ton of make up.

[Liam1]

 

Both did all they could to try and save both situations while I basically threw in the towel. Explains why post second divorce I really spent considerable time psychoanalyzing, studying and reading so much material part of my INTJ and obsessive mentality… LOL!

 

This is also why dating post-divorce has been so difficult I have essentially been trying to find elements of both wives, especially wife number two and that is exactly why I am basically doomed in the dating game.

 

I can not even count how many times I run into someone, typically men, who threw in the towel after something went wrong in their marriage but now regret it.

 

I think in the USA people are far too quick to divorce.

 

Then like you they spend years trying to find someone with many elements of the former spouse.

 

They also realize while dating that ALL relationships have issues.

 

IMO, it is not the issues that kill the marriage, it's how the spouses deal with them.

 

If two people are willing to take a good hard look at how they are acting in the marriage and are willing to accept responsibility for any rough times, then those are the marriages that survive.

 

Some people find this out too late, though,

[clia]

The point was.... they didnt think I was below their league due to being a broke student?

 

They honestly didnt give a darn- they were after love.

 

They were actually very impressed when I got good grades in my difficult degree despite that fact it wasnt " successful" or " lucrative" or career driven.

 

They fell for me for me. Not my credentials.

 

And my point is that your looks may have carried more weight to those men in terms of "league" than your financial status. I don't believe there is a clear cut formula for "league." It's more of a balanced scale depending on multiple factors. I think looks can carry women a long way.

 

But from your answer above, all of these attractive, successful men who were pounding down your door to date you were fairly short flings. Did any result in a long term relationship? Did any result in a marriage proposal with a ring? A few dates or a month of dating is far different than a long term relationship. And words are just words. A guy who tells you on date two that he wants to marry you is blowing smoke.

 

You really have no way of knowing whether those men would've stuck around for the long haul or whether they truly believed you were in their league for a long term relationship or marriage. They might've just been trying to have sex with you. I mean, it's funny that you have all theses wealthy guys dying to be in long term relationships with you (and you seem to value money and material things and travel, which requires money, quite a bit), yet your actual long term relationships that happened were with guys who didn't have much money, so you are stuck complaining about their "meager" earnings on this site.

[Larryville]

Wow was a lot to digest, I got behind… LOL! I’m just highlighting some things recently posted that made me think about some things…

 

Men truly in love either do not think about leagues, or they think they have landed a hottie if anything!

I do not feel that a man who truly fell hard for a girl could ever think he was above her league look wise.

 

Ok gonna throw out something I honestly don’t know the answer too. Wife number one, very beautiful, kind, great companion but had two kids, was struggling financially, had some family dynamic issues but I fell hard for her I was 19 she was 29. While there is much more bottom line is TODAY I would never consider her. As nice and sweet and kind as she was, she was not that smart, financially irresponsible, never followed thru on things she drove me insane at the end.

 

Wife # 2 polar opposite, smart (I mean Mensa member smart) funny, great career, successful, lit up a room. I did not exactly “seek that out” but made damn sure not to be with anyone like wife #1 and saying that I wanted to get married again. Men truly in love either do not think about leagues

 

The point was.... they didnt think I was below their league due to being a broke student?

They honestly didnt give a darn- they were after love.

 

They were actually very impressed when I got good grades in my difficult degree despite that fact it wasnt " successful" or " lucrative" or career driven. They fell for me for me. Not my credentials.

 

If status and success and careers are soooooo important, then why do I get just as many men into me as my professional friends?

 

Men interact with women they fall for IRRESPECTIVE of what the woman is in paper! People are more than their status. At the end of the day, it us about two adults being able to interact and fall for one another; status and leagues do not limit interpersonal relationships.

 

One reason I fell for wife #2 is we actually only interacted via email (this was late 90’s) for first few months, not even a phone call (long story as to why) but this was our connection we would write emails pages long that were as intimate as any personal encounter. I was enamored with her mind. I knew about the superficial stuff but was not drawn to that.

 

I don't think men care as much about the education/career of women as women tend to about men. However I do still think there tends to be a lot of similarity in the education levels for most people when it comes to dating.

 

Keep in mind my earlier statement about my current dating has me seeking basically wife #2.

 

Woman emailed me on a site a few weeks ago, introduced herself and said she had a question about my profile content. We send maybe 40 replies to each other. She is in early 40’s, attractive the email exchanges were cool. Now I was not conversing with her necessarily to try and get with her but they her emails got more personal (I kept it generic) we spoke on the phone the other day finally and I had sent in multiple emails questions about her education and career and she would not answer. On the phone she told me she was unemployed, POOF! If I did have any slight interest it is now zero, don’t even want to communicate anymore. Process that however, just throwing out there… status

 

Leagues may not exist except in extreme circunstances, however, most people know a few key things:

They know they arent drop dead gorgeous

They know they are not hideous

They know the types of people they click with intellectually

They have bare minimum standards; mine was that the guy had to be full time employed or studying, great chemistry and simply clicking. Oh and no criminal record of a serious degree beyond a DUI and speeding fines.

 

IMO, the league thing, as has been mentioned, mainly applies to a long term marriage. The studies show that when people are close to equal in looks, intellectual capacity, and come from similar backgrounds, those are the marriages that tend to survive the long haul and ups and downs of a typical long term marriage.

 

I think in the USA people are far too quick to divorce.

 

Absolutely, me in a nutshell what divorcing was the biggest mistake I every made and exactly why for so much of my post marriage dating life I think I’m kinda cursed. Lesson learned.