Do Not Ever Chase Men

[SammySammy]

I'll warn you right now that this whole 'mirroring' game that women play is completely transparent to any guy with even the slightest experience. It just makes you look daft.

 

It's also incredibly annoying.

 

True.

 

So easy to see through and all it may succeed at is driving guys away.

 

But, let her think she has the "rule" that "works".

[UltimatePanacea]

I'll warn you right now that this whole 'mirroring' game that women play is completely transparent to any guy with even the slightest experience. It just makes you look daft.

 

It's also incredibly annoying.

Well mirroring is also balancing things. You call-I call, You offer dates-I accept, you say you love me- reciprocate, you buy me a gift-i buy you a gift...mirroring is NOT playing hard to get, it's just keeping things in balance and matching his effort so that you don't end up heart broken.

[candie13]

Sex.

 

 

 

Everyone is playing the game. It's completely dishonest, or delusional to suggest otherwise.

 

I can't imagine life without game

i am playful so I like games, I have a lot of sense of humour so banter and flirting are totally up my sleeve. I am not a "love is war" type of person, though. While attraction is immensely important and sexual tension, if a man hints at sex early on, he's out of the game, because I am not desperate for a lay. I want to know a man, to feel attracted to his brain and personality and there are lot of people (men and women) with ugly personalities.

 

Basically, if the dude hints at sex, he's looking for a lay and some fun. I'll leave him the pleasure of exploring further those areas with other people, I want more. I search for depth. Yeah, depth and selfless attitude in bed .

Perhaps it would go something like this:

 

Man: Hello lady. Would you be interested in having some sex today?

 

yeah, I'd not respond, I'd prob be gone.

 

Woman: Only if we are exclusive. And I would like to be married within a respectable time-frame.

I used to do that / think that in the past. It didn't exactly end well .

Man: These terms are unacceptable to me. Can we negotiate?

played that game as well. My key lesson is to never ever negotiate. I look for men who want the same things as I do. There's absolutely no point in preaching to a man the benefits of a RS, exclusivity or marriage if he isn't convinced, if he doesn't feel it in his bones that he wants that thing with you. Don't get me wrong, a lot of women can manipulate men into marriage, trick them into it, even make them think it was their idea. These things are short term patches, they don't work long term.

 

I want long term ****. I want a dude like me, who's not afraid to open up, speak up, be vulnerable, say a lot of **** and share his flaws with me. I ain't exactly perfect either, we might as well enjoy our imperfection together rather than lie to eachother about how perfect we are (not)

 

Woman: Well, I could use sex, but it means that our agreement ends when I meet a suitable marriage prospect.

yeah, I did that too for a long time. Got me single again, haha.

 

Man: These terms are more to my liking. Let's meet tonight for NSA animal sex.

Thanks Lord, I've had one night stands but I have never dated a guy regularly and not be sexually exclusive, however short that "relationship" was. That remark is a total no no in my book, lol and despite my bickering and nagging, I've never accepted NSA sex as part of any negotiation .

[Jabron1]

Well mirroring is also balancing things. You call-I call, You offer dates-I accept, you say you love me- reciprocate, you buy me a gift-i buy you a gift...mirroring is NOT playing hard to get, it's just keeping things in balance and matching his effort so that you don't end up heart broken.

 

Where did you get this 'mirror' idea by the way?

 

Seriously, so many women do this. I've had women do this of all different types of ages, nationalities, and backgrounds. It's like a conspiracy or something

 

Is it in some sort of book or something - 'cosmo', or 'the rules'?

 

I really am curious.

 

I personally consider it a form of gaslighting - perhaps unintentional, but still.

[candie13]

True.

 

So easy to see through and all it may succeed at is driving guys away.

 

But, let her think she has the "rule" that "works".

agreed, however, it is hard for a man to give high interest signs and be consistent, only to blur out his real intentions to his date - if they don't really feel it. I mean, a lot of men won't bother calling regularly and keeping in touch only because they felt the woman smelled his game. They'll still continue their life and their behavior because it's natural and easier. Meaning not being exactly consistent and not keeping exactly in touch if not interested.

 

Not dismissing those players out there, but in all honesty, it's not like all men are players and should not be treated that way, otherwise it's almost like a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

In my humble opinion, people - both men and women - are so mesmerized by "signs" and who calls first and how often - that sometimes they forget to take into consideration the main thing: are they having a good time during that date? Was it fun? Do they genuinely want to see the other person again?

[UltimatePanacea]

Where did you get this 'mirror' idea by the way?

 

Seriously, so many women do this. I've had women do this of all different types of ages, nationalities, and backgrounds. It's like a conspiracy or something

 

Is it in some sort of book or something - 'cosmo', or 'the rules'?

 

I really am curious.

 

I personally consider it a form of gaslighting - perhaps unintentional, but still.

Explaining Again...I don't have time for people who don't have time for me. That's what mirroring is for

[Jabron1]

Explaining Again...I don't have time for people who don't have time for me. That's what mirroring is for

 

I think we both know it's for more than that. It's about hiding interest, controlling your own state, reflecting one's personality back at them, etc etc.

 

Law Of Power #44 - Disarm and infuriate with the mirror effect

 

The mirror reflects reality, but it is also the perfect tool for deception. When you mirror people, doing exactly as they do, they cannot figure out your strategy. The Mirror Effect mocks and humiliates them, making them overreact. By holding up a mirror to their psyches, you seduce them with the illusion that you share their values; by holding up a mirror to their actions, you teach them a lesson. Few can resist the power of the Mirror Effect.

 

With respect, I wasn't asking what it is. I was asking where you came across it.

[elaine567]

I'll warn you right now that this whole 'mirroring' game that women play is completely transparent to any guy with even the slightest experience. It just makes you look daft.

 

It's also incredibly annoying.

 

Its incredibly annoying because it takes the power away from you.

You leave her hanging on for three days, but that means she leaves you hanging on for three days and that ain't so funny as you have to wait for her getting back in touch with you. The "game" is balanced.

So no point in playing it cool and making the little lady wait till you deem it appropriate to get back to her, as she will play it cool right back to you.

I get it.

[candie13]

I think we both know it's for more than that. It's about hiding interest, controlling your own state, reflecting one's personality back at them, etc etc.

 

Law Of Power #44 - Disarm and infuriate with the mirror effect

 

The mirror reflects reality, but it is also the perfect tool for deception. When you mirror people, doing exactly as they do, they cannot figure out your strategy. The Mirror Effect mocks and humiliates them, making them overreact. By holding up a mirror to their psyches, you seduce them with the illusion that you share their values; by holding up a mirror to their actions, you teach them a lesson. Few can resist the power of the Mirror Effect.

 

With respect, I wasn't asking what it is. I was asking where you came across it.

jesus, that sounds vile !

 

I first came across this theory in a book called "you lost him at hello". Decent dating book, actually. But I can assure you, it was not aimed at "infuriating and confusing dates" but more at teaching women to pick up and recognize signs of moderate to low signs of interest from men for what they are, instead of blowing them out of proportions and building various creative scenarios involving a white dress while enthusiastically responding to one of those - once a week texts

[Jabron1]

jesus, that sounds vile !

 

I first came across this theory in a book called "you lost him at hello". Decent dating book, actually. But I can assure you, it was not aimed at "infuriating and confusing dates" but more at teaching women to pick up and recognize signs of moderate to low signs of interest from men for what they are, instead of blowing them out of proportions and building various creative scenarios involving a white dress while enthusiastically responding to one of those - once a week texts

 

I'm just pointing out that it's a deception technique that has been used for centuries. This is where it comes from. It's gaslighting - at the end of the day. Believe me, that's how it will come across to the recipient.

 

It interests me how certain techniques get picked up on, given a makeover, and then used as dating advice.

[katiegrl]

I'm just pointing out that it's a deception technique that has been used for centuries. This is where it comes from. It's gaslighting - at the end of the day. Believe me, that's how it will come across to the recipient.

 

It interests me how certain techniques get picked up on, given a makeover, and then used as dating advice.

 

Jabron wondering how are you defining mirroring?

 

And what exactly do you find deceptive about it?

 

If a guy waits 3 days to text, because he is busy, why is it considered deceptive for the woman to wait 2-3-4 days to respond because SHE is busy ?

 

It is called a healthy balance of give and take. Both giving equal amounts to the other... and to the relationship...

 

Not understanding your rationale for calling that deceptive.

[UltimatePanacea]

And you don't think at all that it could just be the type of men that you habitually date? Aka, men who are distant, unattached and not looking for commitment? Men who are simply not compatible with you and how you naturally are?

.

Hmm...so are you suggesting that there are men out there who are emotionally unavailable no matter what and they just don't see themselves married/in a long term relationship ever ever? It's so hard to believe it, but maybe you're right, I have no clue...if it is true then no matter what you do, no matter how amazing you are there is no way to make them stay because they already have one foot out of the relationship...SMH

[UltimatePanacea]

Jabron1, playing hard to get and not being authentic is a deception, but mirroring his/her level of investment and effort is simply self-love, not wasting your time on someone who is not "sure"...what are you expecting a woman to do if she sees that the guy she is dating does not make enough effort, does not call much, does not want to take things to the next level?

if the guy goes flaky or doesn't offer you commitment or whatever it is that you're expecting, he simply communicates: "I don't want to be your bf/You're not the one/ grass is greener syndrome and etc..."

[candie13]

Hmm...so are you suggesting that there are men out there who are emotionally unavailable no matter what and they just don't see themselves married/in a long term relationship ever ever? It's so hard to believe it, but maybe you're right, I have no clue...if it is true then no matter what you do, no matter how amazing you are there is no way to make them stay because they already have one foot out of the relationship...SMH

OP, the ultimate tough truth is that we don't attract what we want, we attract whom we are - people like us.

 

A person who is emotionally available, who is honest, open, who speaks about her feelings freely cannot go out with an emotionally unavailable man because she'd never put up with the man's hesitation or pulling away.

[Buddhist]

I have to agree with this, many men approach dating without agenda unlike some of us women.

 

Either way though I understand that he was going to leave anyway but my chasing kiND of expedites the process....

 

Isn't that in your interests though? You clearly want a LTR, if he doesn't better that he doesn't waste much of your precious time. Time that you could have been available to someone who does want a LTR.

[candie13]

I'm just pointing out that it's a deception technique that has been used for centuries. This is where it comes from. It's gaslighting - at the end of the day. Believe me, that's how it will come across to the recipient.

 

It interests me how certain techniques get picked up on, given a makeover, and then used as dating advice.

why would that be gaslighting?

 

careful, you believe so much in games and deception that you risk to project that around you - ignoring reality... self fulfilling prophecy.

[Buddhist]

Hmm...so are you suggesting that there are men out there who are emotionally unavailable no matter what and they just don't see themselves married/in a long term relationship ever ever? It's so hard to believe it, but maybe you're right, I have no clue...if it is true then no matter what you do, no matter how amazing you are there is no way to make them stay because they already have one foot out of the relationship...SMH

 

Can you see the inherent assumption in your post though? That 'normal' people necessarily want long term relationships? LTR aren't an indicator of normality. Yes there are absolutely people out there with zero interest in a LTR ever. There are absolutely people out there who want to date someone for 6 months, 1 year and then yearn for the freedom of single hood. There are even people who don't understand this is what they want until they get into a relationship and then come to that decision.

 

Society trains us all into thinking that long term relationships are the natural desire for every person on the planet. And that just isn't true.

[UltimatePanacea]

Can you see the inherent assumption in your post though? That 'normal' people necessarily want long term relationships? LTR aren't an indicator of normality. Yes there are absolutely people out there with zero interest in a LTR ever. There are absolutely people out there who want to date someone for 6 months, 1 year and then yearn for the freedom of single hood. There are even people who don't understand this is what they want until they get into a relationship and then come to that decision.

 

Society trains us all into thinking that long term relationships are the natural desire for every person on the planet. And that just isn't true.

Maybe you're right, maybe there are men and women out there who don't want LTR or marriage or children. What is a foreign concept to me is how can you relate to someone for a year and then decide that LTR is not what you want? Haven't you in a way gotten attached to this person over those 12 months? Smells like an avoidant personality disorder to me...

[candie13]

Can you see the inherent assumption in your post though? That 'normal' people necessarily want long term relationships? LTR aren't an indicator of normality. Yes there are absolutely people out there with zero interest in a LTR ever. There are absolutely people out there who want to date someone for 6 months, 1 year and then yearn for the freedom of single hood. There are even people who don't understand this is what they want until they get into a relationship and then come to that decision.

 

Society trains us all into thinking that long term relationships are the natural desire for every person on the planet. And that just isn't true.

wait a minute wait a minute... there's one thing to want a RS - I believe RS can be cool, I enjoy intimacy - but it's totally different to assume the only thing I want or seek is merely a partner wanting a RS as well. What happened with my criteria, desires, wishes and hopes about the character of my future bf?

 

Why do we immediately stop at - does he want / doesn't he want a RS? Where did the "do I like him, is he a decent person, is he humble and kind or aggressive and determined - as I am?" go?

 

By getting to know a person, we get to find out if they want - if they don't want a RS, if they want a long term RS, but also their take on the world, career, children and spirituality. So taking time to know the person in front - instead of projecting on them my own expectations and intentions - should be key.

 

It sucks because a lot of men lie and conceal their true intentions thus wasting a lot of time. Hell, half of them don't even know what their intentions are, when it comes to dating. Such is life. No one gets given a full set of clubs.

[Jabron1]

why would that be gaslighting?

 

careful, you believe so much in games and deception that you risk to project that around you - ignoring reality... self fulfilling prophecy.

 

Because mirroring is a game that can start making a guy seriously question his perception of reality - which is what gaslighting is.

 

Learning and using something like this is no different than a guy learning and using 'negs' or something like that.

 

What I find interesting is none of the girls will consider that using such a technique is being deceptive in any way - won't even humour the idea.

 

Self-awareness seems in short supply. Which of us is truly ignoring reality here?

[katiegrl]

Because mirroring is a game that can start making a guy seriously question his perception of reality - which is what gaslighting is.

 

Learning and using something like this is no different than a guy learning and using 'negs' or something like that.

 

What I find interesting is none of the girls will consider that using such a technique is being deceptive in any way - won't even humour the idea.

 

Self-awareness seems in short supply. Which of us is truly ignoring reality here?

 

J, could you please address/answer post 61 please?

[candie13]

Because mirroring is a game that can start making a guy seriously question his perception of reality - which is what gaslighting is.

 

Learning and using something like this is no different than a guy learning and using 'negs' or something like that.

 

What I find interesting is none of the girls will consider that using such a technique is being deceptive in any way - won't even humour the idea.

 

Self-awareness seems in short supply. Which of us is truly ignoring reality here?

 

I don't get it. If a dude's interest, he'll make contact regularly and the chick will make contact regularly. They both reassure eachother and after a while start being their natural selves.

 

If he's winging 3-4 girls and makes contact once a week, the chick will respond once a week. The dude will still have 2-3 other girls to wing around - perhaps a little bit less the above named chick but yeah, where's the lack of self awareness?

 

behaviors are a reflection of our attitude which is our reflection of our emotions which are a reflection of our thoughts. If a man doesn't think too highly or feel too strongly about a chick, he won't really make a lot of contact. She won't make a lot of contact either, because she realizes she's not top of mind priority... so in a way, she's saving herself from a man who's not that interested and leaves the dude the time to meet and date more seriously other women whom he might actually like.

 

I think mirroring is doing absolutely everyone a big favor.

[Taramere]

Well mirroring is also balancing things. You call-I call, You offer dates-I accept, you say you love me- reciprocate, you buy me a gift-i buy you a gift...mirroring is NOT playing hard to get, it's just keeping things in balance and matching his effort so that you don't end up heart broken.

 

I'm kind of at a loss as to why any guy would find that objectionable. To me, it just sounds as though you're letting the guy set the pace, and keeping in time with him....which a lot of guys probably prefer. It's passive, but I don't see how it's passive-aggressive or deceptive. I really don't get why anybody would have an issue with it.

[katiegrl]

Because mirroring is a game that can start making a guy seriously question his perception of reality - which is what gaslighting is.

 

 

Which is exactly how women feel when a man, intentionally or unintentionally, waits 3+ days or even longer sometimes to call after a great date. For example .

 

Or when they come on strong at first, texting and calling often, but then pull back and only call every few days or a couple times a week.

 

You don't think a woman questions *her* perception of reality when that happens?

 

Come on now a little empathy would serve you well here .....

[Taramere]

why would that be gaslighting?

 

careful, you believe so much in games and deception that you risk to project that around you - ignoring reality... self fulfilling prophecy.

 

I think this is often a problem. It's not dissimilar to the way conspiracy theorists tend to be the people who would be most likely to be involved in a conspiracy themselves.

 

If you (general you) tend to be late for things because you're not always good at keeping track of time, then you're less likely to be offended by other people being late (unless it's one of those situations where it's really crucial for everybody to be on time). Less likely to take offence. However, somebody who uses lateness in a passive aggressive sort of way is more likely to get pissed off about other people's lateness. More likely to suspect them of playing passive aggressive games - because that's their own mindset.

 

That's probably one of the big problems of the whole PUA thing. That in promoting game playing and manipulation, it promotes paranoia about other people playing mind games and manipulating.