db-inator Posted June 1, 2016 Posted June 1, 2016 Hi all, My fiancee and I have been struggling lately, and I'm worried that we will never reach the wedding day. I'll try to describe the situation as concisely as possible: After 2 years of dating, we got engaged this February in Disney World with a picture perfect proposal. Our relationship is on really solid ground (not sugar-coating it, it really was).My fiancee is in law school and got a summer associateship out-of-state. I'm ecstatic for her as those types of summer gigs aren't easy to get.I work in a job where I can work remotely, and my company graciously allows me to live in this state with her while the summer gig is going on.In mid-May, we move. We will depart in early August.Her firm has a variety of events that are just for employees of the company, meaning I can't go to them. I understand completely.She also has some social events with her fellow summer associates. They're all single or have their significant others in other states, and she doesn't want to include me because it would upset the dynamic. I find that tough to hear, but I say "ok" and deal with it.She insists that I take some trips and get out of the city, saying that she feels guilty about me being here and not having anyone to hang out with. I kind of understand her sentiment, but it hurts to hear that that's what she wants.On recent nights where she is out with her summer cohorts, she neglects telling me when she'll be home and where she is. When she comes home, she's not drunk or out of control, but I feel disrespected.I come to learn that there's one summer in particular that she's spending a lot of time with, a guy, and she categorizes their friendship as "intense." I don't know what to make of that, but she insists that he's just a friend.I look at her phone (I know, that's a violation), and see that there are a lot of texts between them, including some flirtation. It's mostly from him to her, but she's not setting boundaries.She catches me looking at her phone. While she's miffed, she says "I get it" and is understanding.She says she's "worried about hurting me" and wonders if she's the marrying type. She asks me if she's really the type of person I want to marry.She says she still loves me, but I'm worried the nature of that love is changing into something not resembling the relationship we had that culminated in our engagement. Now, my head is spinning and I'm in a painful depression because I feel like she doesn't respect me. I feel like I'm being treated like a leper who sits in this studio apartment working all day and who doesn't have a social life. But is that my fault at all? I feel like she's partly created this situation by excluding me. I'm just trying to cope with all of this. I looked into social groups and meet ups in this new city, but all I really want to do is sleep and hope that this ache in my stomach goes away. Any perspectives or advice that others have would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for reading.
Daxter325 Posted June 2, 2016 Posted June 2, 2016 Reading this makes me feel a very familiar feeling. I know that empty gut feeling that you're having - it's a nauseating, stomach churning sensation right under your ribs. Don't ignore the signs. What you wrote (despite you violating her privacy by looking through her phone) are clear indicators that she's not on the same page. Consider yourself lucky though, I wish I had clear signs. The "love of my life" literally just packed up and abandoned our home, family everything. 2
ExpatInItaly Posted June 2, 2016 Posted June 2, 2016 I'm sorry you're here, OP. This other guy has caught her interest, and she knows it. Her friendship with him is developing into something more. That is not your fault. It doesn't sound as though she's been very welcoming of you into her new social circle. I think it's perfectly normal and healthy for partners to develop their own interests and friendships, but it's not a good sign if one feels actively excluded. Her questioning her feelings and yours (regarding marrying her) are a clear sign she's just not ready to get married. Not at this point. You need to sit down with her and have a very difficult but honest conversation with her. Ask her if she wants out, plain and simple. Your relationship has reached a serious fork in the road and you getting out and socializing more on your own is not the only issue here, and therefore will not be the solution either. I have been in your shoes, though I am a woman. An ex of mine had a period like this in which he'd befriended a female colleague, though I didn't know it at the time. We'd had a truly lovely relationship until then. I just knew I wasn't really included in his outings with his new co-workers in our new city and something didn't feel right. Sure, I had my own new job and new friends but I felt very much like you. There were quite a few nights when I was awake late, wondering when he would come home. I finally had enough one night and demanded that he just be honest and tell me what was going on. Boom - he'd been having doubts about us. Had made a new friend. Hadn't told me about her because he didn't want to upset me. (I had never been a jealous person at all, so I knew this was an excuse) We tried to work it out and this other girl happened to find a new job somewhere else anyway. But honestly? I think I never felt the same level of comfort and security in the relationship after that. We were young then, I was 26 and he 24. We'd been together around 3 years I think. We wound up staying together another 4.5 years, and I thought we had really moved past that. But, shock of shockers, he had an affair which ultimately led to the end of the relationship. My point in sharing my story is that you really need to pay attention to the warning signs here. I wish I had been a heck of a lot more assertive the first time he'd told me he was having doubts, but I instead thought it was somehow my fault and did whatever I could to try to please him. (He never once blamed me, to be clear) It was rough on me and I should have either just walked away then or at the very least put some firm boundaries in place and demonstrate some self-respect. I was way too accommodating for too long; I caution you against doing the same. Be firm and clear with what you want - if she isn't able or willing to meet you half-way, you need to close this chapter. 7
LostOnes05 Posted June 2, 2016 Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) [*]I come to learn that there's one summer in particular that she's spending a lot of time with, a guy, and she categorizes their friendship as "intense." I don't know what to make of that, but she insists that he's just a friend. [*]I look at her phone (I know, that's a violation), and see that there are a lot of texts between them, including some flirtation. It's mostly from him to her, but she's not setting boundaries. [*]She says she's "worried about hurting me" and wonders if she's the marrying type. She asks me if she's really the type of person I want to marry. I know that feeling as well. I agree with Daxter. Don't ignore those signs and that gut feeling. It's there for a reason. She is pushing your boundaries. What is an intense friendship?! Never heard that one to describe a friendship. If I had a dollar for everytime the "we're just friends" excuse was used I'd be richer than Bill Gates. She is your fiance, you're gonna have to have an open, honest, and blunt conversation about the amount of interaction she is having with this guy. Presumably they see each other every day for a large part of the day, so why does she feel the need to communicate after work...if it's not about work? The whole worried about hurting you statement is a warning of what she may be planning to do. I also think that her questioning whether she is the marrying type after accepting the engagement is suspect. If you proposed, why does she question what you want as well? I'd prepare mentally for the possible storm ahead. I hope everything works out fine for you. Edited June 2, 2016 by LostOnes05 2
Marc878 Posted June 2, 2016 Posted June 2, 2016 (edited) Trust your gut instincts. I doubt this will work out. To many red flags. {She says she's "worried about hurting me" and wonders if she's the marrying type. She asks me if she's really the type of person I want to marry. She says she still loves me, but I'm worried the nature of that love is changing into something not resembling the relationship we had that culminated in our engagement.} She wants out but is giving you the chance to end it before she has to. Edited June 2, 2016 by Marc878 1
Arieswoman Posted June 2, 2016 Posted June 2, 2016 OP, I also saw this, She says she's "worried about hurting me" and wonders if she's the marrying type. She asks me if she's really the type of person I want to marry. and red flags started flapping. I'm sorry but this doesn't look good. You need to take a deep breath and have a serious talk to her to see if you are really on the same page. Good luck x 1
Author db-inator Posted June 2, 2016 Author Posted June 2, 2016 How old are you two? I'm 33 and she's 32.
MrBojangles Posted June 2, 2016 Posted June 2, 2016 [*]She says she's "worried about hurting me" and wonders if she's the marrying type. She asks me if she's really the type of person I want to marry. When someone tells you the type of person they really are, believe them! db-inator, I believe your relationship is already over at this point, sorry to say. She doesn't want to be seen as the "bad mate" or deal with the guilt, for ending it herself. It seems that she may be trying or hoping that you will be the one to end it. Of course these are just my opinions, but as you've described the situation, it certainly sounds like she has fallen for this other guy. You need to have a very blunt and honest discussion with her, and let her know your feelings on what has been going on, and of the consequences. But I fear it may be too late at this point to save your relationship, based on what you've written. But at least you can walk away having tried, knowing that you attempted to save the relationship.
lolablue17 Posted June 2, 2016 Posted June 2, 2016 During my reading this post I said to myself several times: "Why is he dragging this? why won't he leave her?" Your story is really amazing. I don't know even one man who would agree to marry this woman. Do you want this stomach ache to go away? It's up to you. Your stomach is trying to tell you something and you're not listening. I don't even start to describe the tons of red flags I see. Just call off the engagement, say thank to god and start your new better life. RUN!
Author db-inator Posted June 7, 2016 Author Posted June 7, 2016 I appreciate everyone's input. Based on the comments, it makes my situation sound dire, but I wanted to give an update and offer some perspective on why I haven't left. The most obvious reason why I haven't left is that I love her. We've been together for over 2 years, got engaged, and we're making plans for the future. Of course I'd like us to stay together. I also believe her when she says she loves me (which she still says). For me, the red line is being physically unfaithful, and I don't believe she has done that. She said she would never do that, and I actually believe her - she's clearly said other stuff that hurt, so I don't believe she would cover that up. *Latest Update* We spent this past weekend reconnecting - we flew to New England for my friend's wedding, stayed with my parents, and genuinely enjoyed our time together. We continued talking about plans for the engagement and wedding (including times when we were alone, not just for show in front of others). I'm really hopeful still. I know everyone reading is probably rolling their eyes, but I think this is a case where she just wants to go out for drinks like she used to and party. Law firms are stressful, so it's a nice outlet, plus this type of thing isn't nearly as convenient where we live in Virginia. As far as the "intense friend" thing, she insists it's nothing more than friendship. He's 25 and she sees him like a little brother. She also spoke to him about cooling down with the flirtation (finally) so I'm more comfortable about that. She also offered to have all 3 of us go out for drinks this week, but I'm going to a work event with her on Thursday and will meet everyone then. Anyways, if you still think I'm being dumb, you're more than welcome to let me know, but for now I'm hopeful that the worst is behind us and we can enjoy the rest of the summer.
ExpatInItaly Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) I'll be blunt: I think you're being awfully naive about this other guy. She calls it an "intense" friendship and says she'll tell him to cool it with the flirting...then says he's just a friend that she sees like a little brother? That doesn't make any sense. She knows she likes him more than she should and it was enough to make her doubt her future with you. Now, she sees how this looks to you and is back-pedaling. Why not say so the first time you questioned her connection to him? The invitation for all of you to meet is fine, but doesn't guarantee she's not attracted to him. She is. Otherwise, he wouldn't be a factor in this chain of events at all. I would take her up on that offer to meet him anyway, to see who this person is. Tread very carefully moving forward, OP. I shared my story so of course I am only speaking from my own experience, but my two cents: Don't assume everything is suddenly fine. Observe what happens over the next few months. See what steps she takes to try to rebuild this; she's done a lot of damage and I don't think she quite gets that. It's not impossible that you can work through this and move forward together. But my strong suggestion? Don't get married yet. She's not ready. Edited June 7, 2016 by ExpatInItaly 1
Author db-inator Posted June 7, 2016 Author Posted June 7, 2016 Tread very carefully moving forward, OP. I shared my story so of course I am only speaking from my own experience, but my two cents: Don't assume everything is suddenly fine. Observe what happens over the next few months. See what steps she takes to try to rebuild this; she's done a lot of damage and I don't think she quite gets that. It's not impossible that you can work through this and move forward together. But my strong suggestion? Don't get married yet. She's not ready. I agree, things aren't suddenly fine yet, and I certainly don't feel fine yet either. In terms of the other guy, all I can do is wait and see if she's being legit. If she cheats on me, then that's that, but I'm not going to preemptively leave her. You make a really good point about seeing what steps she takes to make this situation better. We weren't planning to get married until Fall of next year, so things could change a lot by then (for better or worse). But if she's not going to put in the effort now or over time, then marriage doesn't make sense.
VeveCakes Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 Why go for drinks with this guy? Why does she even need a friendship with this guy, she is engaged. They can talk about work at work. It's innapropriate. 1
pidgeon1010 Posted June 7, 2016 Posted June 7, 2016 I appreciate everyone's input. Based on the comments, it makes my situation sound dire, but I wanted to give an update and offer some perspective on why I haven't left. The most obvious reason why I haven't left is that I love her. We've been together for over 2 years, got engaged, and we're making plans for the future. Of course I'd like us to stay together. I also believe her when she says she loves me (which she still says). For me, the red line is being physically unfaithful, and I don't believe she has done that. She said she would never do that, and I actually believe her - she's clearly said other stuff that hurt, so I don't believe she would cover that up. *Latest Update* We spent this past weekend reconnecting - we flew to New England for my friend's wedding, stayed with my parents, and genuinely enjoyed our time together. We continued talking about plans for the engagement and wedding (including times when we were alone, not just for show in front of others). I'm really hopeful still. I know everyone reading is probably rolling their eyes, but I think this is a case where she just wants to go out for drinks like she used to and party. Law firms are stressful, so it's a nice outlet, plus this type of thing isn't nearly as convenient where we live in Virginia. As far as the "intense friend" thing, she insists it's nothing more than friendship. He's 25 and she sees him like a little brother. She also spoke to him about cooling down with the flirtation (finally) so I'm more comfortable about that. She also offered to have all 3 of us go out for drinks this week, but I'm going to a work event with her on Thursday and will meet everyone then. Anyways, if you still think I'm being dumb, you're more than welcome to let me know, but for now I'm hopeful that the worst is behind us and we can enjoy the rest of the summer. Oh please, she is a summer. Law firm summer internships are basically fun-filled with events where you are wined and dined. If you don't **** up socially and can turn in a decent work product on the "assignments" you are given, you're more than likely to get an offer for permanent employment. WHAT STRESS? I was a summer associate at four different firms during my first and second year of law school, and I never encountered a case where a summer class was made up of summer associates who were unattached or whose partners were out of town. NEVER. She should be including you in ALL the events where significant others are encouraged to come. Even when events are only for summer associates, once the event officially ends, summer associates (and associates) usually hang out and significant others are always welcome to join. She is not acting like a girlfriend let alone a fiancee'. Hopefully things will change. 1
Author db-inator Posted June 8, 2016 Author Posted June 8, 2016 WHAT STRESS? I was a summer associate at four different firms during my first and second year of law school, and I never encountered a case where a summer class was made up of summer associates who were unattached or whose partners were out of town. NEVER. She should be including you in ALL the events where significant others are encouraged to come. Even when events are only for summer associates, once the event officially ends, summer associates (and associates) usually hang out and significant others are always welcome to join. She is not acting like a girlfriend let alone a fiancee'. Hopefully things will change. She's a perfectionist when it comes to work, so I think the stress is mostly based on who she is. For example, she got back a perfectly fine assessment of her work - everything was graded as either "good" or "outstanding" - and she was freaked that it wasn't ALL "outstanding." The thing is, all of the events so far have been for associates only, and when they go out for drinks afterwards, it's just been the associates without significant others. BUT she's also been hanging out with this guy one on one sometimes. She asked if I'd want to join them for drinks, and I said yes. When that next opportunity will be, I'm not sure, but it could be after one of the firm's events tomorrow night. The associates are going to the theater for a play, and this is the first one where significant others are invited. I will be meeting everyone and this particular guy at this event for sure. I'm going to be keenly aware of what the dynamic is like between them and if there's awkwardness, or if they're really just friends. I appreciate all of the feedback from everyone. I know I seem really naive, but believe me, I do possess a healthy dose of skepticism about all this and will take action once I have more info.
Toodaloo Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 She is already moving on in her mind. The end is nigh. Sorry OP. It sucks but its there. Its a massive elephant sat in the corner of the room drinking Martinis and hogging the remote control... 1
LD1990 Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 So she's had an "intense friendship" with some guy who has been flirting with her, and they've gone out together one on one. That's just not appropriate. If she respected your relationship at all, she would've shut down any flirtations from this guy immediately, instead of waiting until after you started freaking out about it, and she would limit contact with him to only what was required by her work. You're letting your feelings for this woman cloud your judgment. She likes the attention this guy is giving her, she plans to take things further with him at some point, hence her being "worried about hurting you" - what kind of BS is that? The only time a significant other worries about hurting you is when she plans to do something really lousy to you. I think you're being suckered by this meeting the guy for drinks ploy. You've been getting suspicious, so now she and this guy are going to put on a show for you where they act like everything's on the up and up. You go home feeling a bit better, she continues her inappropriate relationship with him, except now if you ever get upset with her for it she'll say something like "Why are you being this way? You met him, you know there's nothing going on." The only reason I'd go to drinks with the two of them is to have some fun treating the guy like garbage and eventually serving the punk his teeth, followed by dumping that fiancee. Now, some people might take issue with that, but there's nothing wrong with handling things the old-fashioned way. Whatever you do, really evaluate your relationship with this girl. Breaking up with a fiancee who's acting inappropriately is hard. Breaking up with an unfaithful wife would be much harder.
ExpatInItaly Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 OP, I have to agree with the above poster who warned you about what to expect at this meeting with her "intense" friend. It will be very difficult to determine their real feelings for each other because they will obviously be on their best behaviour. She knows you're watching her, and he likely does too now. The fact that she was worried about hurting you is a dead give-away that she does not see him as just a friend. I admit I might be projecting, but my situation was eerily similar to yours. I had also met the woman my ex "befriended", as they too were coworkers. In my presence, on more than one occasion, all seemed above-board. I know now it definitely wasn't, not when I wasn't around. But I digress. I realize you are planning on staying for the moment, and I get it as I have been where you are now. It's hard to leave when you're invested, though I would strongly suggest you reconsider your relationship with her. What is her plan of action now, with regards to this other guy? Does she expect to continue hanging out with him? Are they still chatting? (that you are aware of, of course) You know now she has poor boundaries and disrespected your relationship. That is a big issue. And what about her comments saying she didn't know if she was the marrying kind, that she might hurt you, and so on? Even if this other man weren't in the picture, those comments are very concerning. What do you plan on doing, as a couple, to address that? 1
pidgeon1010 Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) She's a perfectionist when it comes to work, so I think the stress is mostly based on who she is. For example, she got back a perfectly fine assessment of her work - everything was graded as either "good" or "outstanding" - and she was freaked that it wasn't ALL "outstanding." The thing is, all of the events so far have been for associates only, and when they go out for drinks afterwards, it's just been the associates without significant others. BUT she's also been hanging out with this guy one on one sometimes. She asked if I'd want to join them for drinks, and I said yes. When that next opportunity will be, I'm not sure, but it could be after one of the firm's events tomorrow night. The associates are going to the theater for a play, and this is the first one where significant others are invited. I will be meeting everyone and this particular guy at this event for sure. I'm going to be keenly aware of what the dynamic is like between them and if there's awkwardness, or if they're really just friends. I appreciate all of the feedback from everyone. I know I seem really naive, but believe me, I do possess a healthy dose of skepticism about all this and will take action once I have more info. None of what you have described sounds promising. The fact that you have to go to an event to hover and see the dynamics between her and another guy is quite telling. Even if no one has a significant other around when they hang out, she could still have invited you knowing full well you were home. She should be excited for people to meet you; not "put baby in a corner." It's just hanging out and having fun, sheesh! At 32, she is also older than the average summer associate and should know better than try to act like an unattached early to mid 20s gal flirting with some guy she met during an internship. Seems like she didn't want the old ball and chain boyfriend around so she can let loose and flirt with her new love interest. You think the guy is going to act the same way he does when you're not around? You're not going to get the full picture. What more info do you expect to get? see him humping her over a barstool? If they both get an offer after the summer ends, they'll become coworkers. What then? Also why do all 3 of you have to go out for drinks? This makes no damn sense. She is freaking engaged to be married. This should be a nonissue. She shouldn't be getting googly-eyed and maintaining an inappropriate "intense" relationship with another man. Edited June 9, 2016 by pidgeon1010 1
stillafool Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 I come to learn that there's one summer in particular that she's spending a lot of time with, a guy, and she categorizes their friendship as "intense." I don't know what to make of that, but she insists that he's just a friend. It means they have an incredible sexual tension going on between them. This woman is not ready to marry you. The writing is on the wall.
JuanDelToro Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 OP. You must be feeling great with all that pessimism in here. If you love the woman and want to be with her, don't abandon ship just yet. You have to get your woman inline again and the only way to do so is by gaining her respect. Not by asking for it. Gain her respect by being a man. Assertive, well grounded, firm to your beliefs and wants. Avoid passive aggressiveness, avoid accusations, avoid questioning her, avoid showing any signs of worrying. If you do any of that she will lose more respect and furthermore she'll capitalize such things. In other words do not give her any excuses to hold on to. I would go to that meeting with the intention to have a great time and on top I would make this guy look like a bottom feeding beta male. Not by insulting him of course. Tactful dominance would better describe my approach. Also make her feel a little uncomfortable as she's making you feel. You have to show her that you shouldn't be taken for granted. Women are highly insecure, use that to your benefit. Relationships are hard work. When we settle with someone that doesn't mean that we stop putting the effort to keep things alive and healthy. The biggest problem that men have is that they become complacent and needy. Once that happens, respect is lost and with that the woman goes bye bye. An independent man, decisive man that doesn't place his happiness into other people's hands will never lose a woman.
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