i just figured out the #1 trait I am looking for

[seekingluck]

I was at a bachelorette party recently and we were playing one of those question games were you talk about sex and dating preferences.

 

One of those questions was around submissiveness. I thought about how I felt about it and I came to a realization. About the ways attraction fizzled for me.

 

I like partners who are decisive. And make plans. I make a lot of decisions and have to "lead" a lot at work. So when it is not work, I am would rather not make all the choices and organize everything. So I appreciate someone who has a vision and takes along for the ride. Alternatively, having a skeleton idea and needing help executing is fine by me as well. I don't want to make the plans, organize the plans and execute the plans.

 

Over the weekend I had a decent conversation with a guy I met online. He wants to talk on the phone and I explained I prefer to get to know people in person. And I use the phone for logistics. And that he could reach out to schedule a meeting: drinks, coffee, whatever.

 

He reached out and I asked what would you like to do ans he had zero opinion. That was instantly unattractive to me. It felt like I'd have to make all of the decisions. Which I hate. But I also have noticed, since I a,more dived as a career woman, there are some men who think that means I'd like to be in charge all the time. Which isn't the case.

 

I can't put my finger on it, but it seems like decisiveness is becoming less common. Do you have a preference for decisiveness?

[Porter56]

Yeah you like the "ALPHA" male.... I'm so sick of that term....

 

I just feel like if I make the decisions all the time it makes me a bossy and controlling jerk. And it feels like if I'm making the decisions...the woman is just sitting back judging the decisions I make waiting to see if I jump through her hoops the correct way.

 

Basically I find your mindset to be a real turn off as well. But yes people are more indecisive now it seems. People are more afraid of being wrong in their decision making then anything else so they become indecisive by nature. I'll give an example...

 

Suppose I pick a restaurant for a date... I pick seafood. Turns out she hates seafood. Bam! Everything's over! Lol

[todreaminblue]

yes i do know exactly what you mean

 

 

...i get tired of being the one who everyone goes to to sort things out..it would be nice one day to feel that i am not the only one who can make good or inspired decisions...like you ...its not about never making decisions...its about being with a guy who is willing to step up to the plate...use his imagination....plan some things without hesitation.....it is highly attractive to be with a man who is motivated and sure of decisions he makes....deb

[Porter56]

Ok....now I know why I'm not appealing to women lol

[Porter56]

Seriously...women love decisive men and all this.

 

I associate this with wanting to be babied honestly. I'd rather be alone than have a little minion running around doing everything I say.

[todreaminblue]

Seriously...women love decisive men and all this.

 

I associate this with wanting to be babied honestly. I'd rather be alone than have a little minion running around doing everything I say.

 

im no baby.......i can take care of myself...what i dont want is a guy who hides behind me and decisions are left up to me....i want a guy who is equal to my own capacity...that is not me being a minion..its expecting a guy to step up..deb

[Emilia]

I like to take turns in terms of leading, that both applies to the sexual and non-sexual side of relationships. I think that helps with variety a lot, allows both people to be heard and play to their strengths. I get on with men the most who are the same.

 

No opinion is a massive turn off purely because it's BORING! That doesn't mean someone should spout random stuff just to move their mouth but that they should take an interest in the world around them.

 

Also, we are good at different things. I think I'm reasonably good at picking restaurants but don't have a good knowledge of bars. I've forgotten a lot about wine but can pick food well. I'm good at movies and areas of art but know very little about live music venues, etc.

 

With more serious stuff, I'm pretty responsible when it comes to finances and have a lot of experience with property. Not so much other areas of investments, startups, etc.

 

To me, dating and relationship are about sharing and partnership, taking turns in leading.

[todreaminblue]

I think that the reason a lot of men seem indecisive these days is probably because they feel that women are too darn picky...about everything. On the other hand, men are generally simple. Take dinner, for example. I like to eat out, so I often take a lady out to dinner. Me, I can eat pretty much anywhere, even some place as horrid as Applebee's has something on the menu that I would consider edible. Women are not usually the same way. Ask a girl what she wants for dinner and the answer will almost always be, "I don't know." or "I don't care." Trouble is, she does know, and she does care. If I pick a place, that place, for whatever reason, just won't do. Or, if she does agree to eat there, she might order some crap that ain't even on the menu, or massacre a meal to such an extent that the chef doesn't even want to make it,and the waiter looks at her funny for even ordering it. And it has to be gluten free, of course. Then, the next time I take her out to dinner, she might suggest a place and say she really wanted to go there last time, but didn't want to say anything. All of that headache, just because a guy made a decision on something as unimportant as dinner. So, yeah...I feel better now!

 

the easiest place to take a dont care picky kind of woman.......is a smorgasboard where she can take her time and pick what she wants to eat...the salads are normally on point...and surprisingly...many turn out to be gluten free....

 

a man with a plan would just research it..and say yep we are going here.....if you dont like it this time...you pick next time........deb

[Emilia]

I think that the reason a lot of men seem indecisive these days is probably because they feel that women are too darn picky...about everything. On the other hand, men are generally simple. Take dinner, for example. I like to eat out, so I often take a lady out to dinner. Me, I can eat pretty much anywhere, even some place as horrid as Applebee's has something on the menu that I would consider edible. Women are not usually the same way. Ask a girl what she wants for dinner and the answer will almost always be, "I don't know." or "I don't care." Trouble is, she does know, and she does care. If I pick a place, that place, for whatever reason, just won't do. Or, if she does agree to eat there, she might order some crap that ain't even on the menu, or massacre a meal to such an extent that the chef doesn't even want to make it,and the waiter looks at her funny for even ordering it. And it has to be gluten free, of course. Then, the next time I take her out to dinner, she might suggest a place and say she really wanted to go there last time, but didn't want to say anything. All of that headache, just because a guy made a decision on something as unimportant as dinner. So, yeah...I feel better now!

Sounds like you date infantile women. Any particular reason for this?

[TaraMaiden2]

My H and I discuss all familial decisions, be they serious/life-changing, or trivial/mundane.

 

IF we receive a flyer to a restaurant, we can immediately tell whether it's going to be a place to consider (Nepalese cuisine) or just trash it immediately (Joe's kebab and burger cafe).

 

I we need to change utilities provider - we discuss it.

If we need to mow the lawn - we'll discuss it. ("I'll mow, you rake 'n' bag")

 

It's a mutual joint decision all the way.

 

Sometimes, you have to make important decisions on your own.

And both of us respect that.

Taking the bull by the horns, solo, is sometimes necessary.

 

But we don't fall out over it, or think any less of each other on such occasions....

[Emilia]

This sort of thing happens often enough to plenty of guys, not just me. There are even Internet memes making fun of it.

 

Most of the women I meet these days are picky eaters, too. One of them will be a vegan, another swears she has to be gluten free, one of them refuses to eat any meat other than chicken, one girl can't eat anything spicy, and she thinks regular pepper is too spicy. Latest girl I met is a vegetarian, and she never even goes to restaurants. At least she is offering to cook for me, but her and I aren't exactly dating.

I don't see a problem with any of the above as long as they know the places they want to go to or are prepared to cook - as the girl mentioned above.

 

As for making fun of indecisive women: wouldn't happen if the men didn't select women based on how pliant they were because they are easier to control.

 

You can't expect someone to be assertive in areas where it suits you and pliant in others where you want control. Make up your mind on what sort of woman you want.

[todreaminblue]

I do this often. If I am in the mood for something in particular, I will pretty much just ask if she wants to get (insert food item here) with me. That tends to work well. Even so, in a LTR, it would be nice to just get a straight answer out of a lady about what they want, at least every now and then. Being forced to pick a place just for her to waste my money on a meal she doesn't like, because she didn't want to pick really irks me.

 

I can understand how that would be frustrating....

 

and wasting food is a pet hate of mine......

 

 

sometimes its hard to pick thats where bouncing around ideas is good for those times...but ultimately someone needs to decide...and its nice when a man....has a plan...smilin...and if i really like the guy i am with....i would eat porridge and like it if he took me to an all you can eat porridge bar...hey i dotn think there are any all you can eat porridge bars...theres an idea..:0)..i should open one..

 

 

its more about the company anyways..if the company is stimulating...the tastebuds can taste later.deb

[TaraMaiden2]

That's the rub, they don't know where they want to go, or if they do, they won't contribute to the decision making process. With my ex GF, the best I could get out of her was for me to mention 3 options of places I was in the mood for, and she would generally eliminate one of them.

 

 

 

Where have I said I am actively choosing pliant women? That is nowhere on my list of requirements when choosing a date. The vegetarian girl is actually rather bossy, or at least she tries to be.

 

I have to say, some vegetarians have a self-righteous, 'Holier-than-thou' attitude...

It also depends on why exactly they don't eat meat.

In my case I had to give up meat due to a medical condition, although the less I eat meat, the more 'aware' I am of the moral implication. (I'm not like one lady though, who, stood in the checkout queue where I work, watching the woman in front of her pack up her shopping, and then asking her "You do realise meat is murder, don't you?")

 

I'd really hate to be a guy thinking of dating HER....

[mikeylo]

Is the thread about food decisions or decisiveness in general ,lmao

[TaraMaiden2]

Is the thread about food decisions or decisiveness in general ,lmao

 

Actually, that's quite a good question, though I'm sure you meant it in jest.

 

Food is a surprisingly quick way to indicate differences.

 

Like a guy I knew who refused to eat indian food because he felt that somehow, it connected him to a race of people against whom he was very prejudiced.

 

Or another guy who was so picky that to say his diet was unvaried, would be an understatement.

Meat. Potatoes. that sums it up, really.

And the militant vegetarian (see above), I mean, seriously, would you date someone like that?

 

All behaviours above indicate a form of stubbornness and intransigence.

 

There's also the saying that goes "you can tell a lot about a person by the way they treat those in the service industry".

 

So it's a fine line between 'decisive' and 'controlling'....

[RedPurpleOrange]

Like a guy I knew who refused to eat indian food because he felt that somehow, it connected him to a race of people against whom he was very prejudiced.

 

 

What?! God, people are weird! Like...INSANE. I always thought I was nuts but I'm pretty sure I'm saner than most. If she'd been alive today, my granny would've turned 104 this week. She used to say "I'm not eating that foreign muck!" in reference to curries. I used to get frustrated with her and say that a curry was basically a meat stew with a bit of spice in it. It didn't work. But...I managed to get her to eat a chicken korma by stealth. She liked it because I'd made it...but when I told her it was actually a curry, she did that spitting thing lol.

 

 

Anyhow...deviating. I think the PC fallout from the 90s has made men feel like if they take the lead/try and control things too much, then this makes them 'sexist', 'aggressive'. But in my experience, many women want men to take charge often. I've fallen into the submissive trap at points in the past and it always leads to friction. Taking charge is not a bad thing if it's done right. I think all men should strive to be better men and this thread contains some sterling advice.

 

 

Tweak yourself better. Life is for living, life is for experiencing, life is for learning through positive experience and becoming the best you can.

[basil67]

Ah, you wish to put the burden of decision making on your partner. I understand, but it doesn't work like that.

 

This reminds me of the worst vacation my hubby and I ever took. We were both burned out from work decision making, went on holidays and both shut down from from decision making.

 

What do you want to do? Dunno. What do you want?

What do you want to eat for dinner? Dunno. What do you want?

 

The end result being a crappy vacation and the realisation that nobody much wants to be the sole decision maker and the task must be shared so that we don't become a burden on our partner.

 

If you want to have someone making all your decisions, then stop being a grown up and let your parents do it all for you.

[elaine567]

YOU as a career woman, are used to making decisions, so you see being submissive, not having to think too hard, leaving all the decisions to the man is heaven.

BUT in your fantasy he decides to do the things you would really want to do anyway.

In a relationship with a completely dominant man, he decides what you do and you like it or lump it, and that isn't so wonderful in real everyday life.

 

Dealing with wishy washy indecisive people isn't great, but dealing with decisive, authoritarian dictators can be hell.

 

Happiness usually comes from give and take.

[Buddhist]

I've seriously never had to think of this because it has never been an issue. Who the hell gets into relationships where there's a leader and a follower? Thankfully all my relationships (as lacking as some of them were) had a equal degree of agency between myself and the other half.

[Lois_Griffin]

Yeah you like the "ALPHA" male.... I'm so sick of that term....

That's because the term is abused by fools who think it means they should act like rude, thoughtless, aggressive troglodytes.

 

There's nothing wrong with a strong, confident alpha male who knows what he wants and can be a leader when he has to be.

[acrosstheuniverse]

I'm quite a 'get sh|t' done kinda person, I'm very driven and organised, I plan, I tend to achieve most of the goals I set myself and am frequently the one to organise plans with friends, round up deposits, book tickets, so I too really enjoy dating a guy like the one you describe. I think one of the reasons I can be so submissive in the bedroom is down to my strong character, it's nice to let someone else take the reins sometimes. Problem is I rarely seem to attract those kinds of guys! Sometimes I have to make a real conscious effort to take a step back and leave a vacuum so the guy has an opportunity to make the plans and take me out as my default is to do that kinda stuff myself. Maybe if I was with someone like me all the time we'd drive each other mad butting heads, I doubt it's a coincidence that my boyfriend is extremely laid back and easygoing. We complement one another.

 

One thing I look for is someone who is an individual and knows who they are, I can't stand it when a guy doesn't have any passions, doesn't believe in any causes, doesn't have a favourite musician, or book, or movie, even sports team... If someone is really neutral and bland about everything it turns me off so fast. I have dated a few guys who've been like that and kinda tried to latch onto what I'm into, maybe to appeal to me or maybe to seem like they've got their own interests and passions too, but it's usually pretty obvious. I don't care if we're into totally opposite things, I just need to feel some passion and commitment to something. Easiest way to end a date for me is the guy saying 'music? Oh I listen to pretty much anything'.

[planb1973]

I'm quite a 'get sh|t' done kinda person, I'm very driven and organised, I plan, I tend to achieve most of the goals I set myself and am frequently the one to organise plans with friends, round up deposits, book tickets, so I too really enjoy dating a guy like the one you describe. I think one of the reasons I can be so submissive in the bedroom is down to my strong character, it's nice to let someone else take the reins sometimes. Problem is I rarely seem to attract those kinds of guys! Sometimes I have to make a real conscious effort to take a step back and leave a vacuum so the guy has an opportunity to make the plans and take me out as my default is to do that kinda stuff myself. Maybe if I was with someone like me all the time we'd drive each other mad butting heads, I doubt it's a coincidence that my boyfriend is extremely laid back and easygoing. We complement one another.

 

One thing I look for is someone who is an individual and knows who they are, I can't stand it when a guy doesn't have any passions, doesn't believe in any causes, doesn't have a favourite musician, or book, or movie, even sports team... If someone is really neutral and bland about everything it turns me off so fast. I have dated a few guys who've been like that and kinda tried to latch onto what I'm into, maybe to appeal to me or maybe to seem like they've got their own interests and passions too, but it's usually pretty obvious. I don't care if we're into totally opposite things, I just need to feel some passion and commitment to something. Easiest way to end a date for me is the guy saying 'music? Oh I listen to pretty much anything'.

 

I think I just started dating your twin.

 

I am a very easy go with the flow guy. Not much of a foodie and could give two hoots about the newest trendy place to go. My hobbies keep me more at home and I am fine with all of that, It's who I am.

 

But have learned that decisiveness is a huge turn on. The woman I have just started dating is very driven, successful, and apparently the one who always makes the plans. So the morning after our first date where I had picked the time and place I got a voicemail where she thanked me for the lovely evening and expressed how much of a breath of fresh air it was that I made a "decisive" plan for the evening. Her acknowledgment of that was so appreciated, because it does take work for me to plan dates. Therefor I planed an even better date, nice dinner and a play. And she loved it even more.

 

As I have planned a few dates now she tells me she wants to plan the next date. Acknowledging that it take effort and she wants to give some back. I told her "I'd like that, but why don't we plan it together." And the hook is set:cool:

 

So fellow men. If you want to date a driven, successful, beautiful woman get off your dive bar stool and plan something! Time and place, get creative, put some effort into it and you will be rewarded. And then keep doing it!

[elaine567]

So fellow men. If you want to date a driven, successful, beautiful woman get off your dive bar stool and plan something! Time and place, get creative, put some effort into it and you will be rewarded. And then keep doing it!

 

And that is where it can all go wrong, as a planner and decision maker you are not, you are the go with the flow guy, so at one point your mask will slip and she will not like the man you truly are. She will feel annoyed and tricked.

That is unless you resolve to change who you really are permanently.

[RecentChange]

Oh I am with you 100%

 

I am not out there dating, so it's not about that.

 

Like you OP, I am a "career woman" and I am bold, forward, direct.

 

And like you, I hate having to make very damn decision! From the pressures of making deciiosn at work all day, sometimes it would be nice to have someone else shoulder that responsibility and take the lead.

 

But, I am fairly certain my personality attracts "yes men". And I don't want to be treated like a little lady, certainly not a minion!

 

Derisiveness is attractive. It shows confidence, and for me it can be relieving, like lifting a burden.

 

I need a balance, I would never be an obedient wifey, but I don't want him leaving everything up to me.

[GorillaTheater]

Oh I am with you 100%

 

I am not out there dating, so it's not about that.

 

Like you OP, I am a "career woman" and I am bold, forward, direct.

 

And like you, I hate having to make very damn decision! From the pressures of making deciiosn at work all day, sometimes it would be nice to have someone else shoulder that responsibility and take the lead.

 

But, I am fairly certain my personality attracts "yes men". And I don't want to be treated like a little lady, certainly not a minion!

 

Derisiveness is attractive. It shows confidence, and for me it can be relieving, like lifting a burden.

 

I need a balance, I would never be an obedient wifey, but I don't want him leaving everything up to me.

 

 

The balance is important, IMO. I'm in-house counsel for a really big outfit (30,000+ employees) and I spend my day (when I'm not here blowing off steam) solving other peoples' problems for 10 hours a day. Then I get home and have a laundry list of problems to solve there, too.

 

 

My wife thinks of herself as submissive, though I think that may be a matter for some debate, and in any event I'd like for her to step up a bit more. I may well be out of luck, but thankfully it's not the biggest problem I have to solve.