guest Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 I am writing this because I need to: 1) Tell someone, and this seems an anonymous/safe way to do so and 2) Find out if what happened was actually illegal. If so, what was it? I am a 25 year old woman, a professional, and pretty much your all-around normal 20-something. I go out on weekends, I go to movies, hang out with friends, and am (I think) attractive and intelligent. Here's what happened: A few months ago I was out at a bar for a late happy hour with people from work. There is a co-worker that I had been mutually flirting with for a couple weeks, talked on the phone, etc. We had never kissed or touched, just talked and flirted. He and I both got VERY drunk and since I lived up the street from the bar, I offered him my sofa as he was in no condition to drive. He made this very clear when he couldn't even find his car key. So we went back to my apartment, only to find that my roommate's friend was sleeping on the sofa. I told him that he could sleep in my room, but that nothing was to happen. I was sober enough to know I didn't want anything. To make this message more clear, I went to bed fully clothed (shirt, shorts, and underwear). I got into bed and he went into the bathroom. I heard some noise in there and went to invesitgate, only to find that he had thrown up all over my bathroom. How lovely. I made him clean it up, gave him some water, and we promptly passed out on top of the covers in my bedroom. When I woke up to my alarm the next day (it was a work day), I was shocked. My clothes were off and scattered on the floor. This is a bit graphic but: a had my period and went to bed with a tampon in. The tampon was in the tangled up blanket (the one I had given him) at the foot of the bed. There were bloody fingerprints all over my pillowcase. I checked my fingers, they were clean. I didn't look at his. I took a shower, still in shock and VERY confused. I confronted him with what I had found that night and he claimed to not remember a thing. The next day he gave me a "I'm Sorry/You're Wonderful/I Want to See You Again" letter. I ignored it. I have since left my job and have only seen him twice since then. My question is: was what happened illegal? If so, what would you classify that as? I'm in no way shape or form interested in pressing charges or anything like that (not that I could prove anything anyway). But I need to have a better understanding of what happened to me in order to recover. I have a tendency to over react, and I am having a hard time determining if this was really all that bad, or if stuff like this "just happens" sometimes. Any thoughts or input is appreciated. Thank you.
Tony Posted June 23, 2005 Senior Moderators Posted June 23, 2005 1. My question is: was what happened illegal? Since you don't know exactly what happened....you did not observe him take off your clothes or remove your tampon or have sex or anykind with you, there is no way of knowing what happened. You were out of it. You admitted to him you didn't remember anything...and he told you he didn't do anything. Now, yes, what happened was illegal. However, without any witnesses nothing can be done. It's like if you yell in the woods and nobody hears you...are you really making any noise at all? 2. "If so, what would you classify that as?" It appears that you were raped. If you would have immediately called police and been taken to a hospital for examination and semen samples had been taken, etc., you would have had a lot of evidence. At this point, you have almost nothing. 3. "I'm in no way shape or form interested in pressing charges or anything like that (not that I could prove anything anyway). But I need to have a better understanding of what happened to me in order to recover. I have a tendency to over react, and I am having a hard time determining if this was really all that bad, or if stuff like this "just happens" sometimes." There doesn't seem to be any doubt, from the physical evidence, that you were raped. However, in a civil court of law (not criminal) a jury would find you to have a greater personal responsibility for what happened because YOU invited a drunken co-worker into your bedroom while you, yourself, were highly intoxicated. Personal responsibility is a very big issue when it comes to this sort of thing. That doesn't excuse him for what he may have done but you very kindly put him in the position of being able to do so. My advice is to take some responsiblity for this, consider it a lesson hard learned, forgive him (holding in anger will not be productive in any way), have nothing further to do with him, and most of all control your drinking so you can make more rational decisions in these kinds of situations. The teen girl in Aruba who disappeared three weeks ago fell into harm's way because she had way too much to drink. Had she had her wits about her, she probably would be around today. We may never know. Consider yourself lucky to be alive. Thankfully, all this guy may have done was take advantage of you sexually. Many under the same circumstances may have done a lot worse.
Lonestar Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 But it's also possible that she blacked out from all the alcohol and engaged in sex with him, not remembering it. If he was also drunk, he would have had no way of knowing that she didn't want to do it. Even if she said at the beginning of the night that nothing was going to happen, that doesn't mean that she didn't respond to his advances sometime during the night in her drunkeness. I don't think anyone can say for sure if it was rape or if it was illegal. She could not have been as sober when she went to sleep as she thought she was if she can't remember any of that. Guest, I think you should steer clear of alcohol and strangers in your bed.
Tony Posted June 23, 2005 Senior Moderators Posted June 23, 2005 "Guest, I think you should steer clear of alcohol and strangers in your bed." That may be one Moses forgot on the Mount.
crazy_grl Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 Originally posted by guest I confronted him with what I had found that night and he claimed to not remember a thing. The next day he gave me a "I'm Sorry/You're Wonderful/I Want to See You Again" letter. If he doesn't remember anything, it's kind of odd that he would write an appology letter. Did he say exactly what it was that he was sorry for. Originally posted by Lonestar But it's also possible that she blacked out from all the alcohol and engaged in sex with him, not remembering it. If he was also drunk, he would have had no way of knowing that she didn't want to do it. Even if she said at the beginning of the night that nothing was going to happen, that doesn't mean that she didn't respond to his advances sometime during the night in her drunkeness. I don't think anyone can say for sure if it was rape or if it was illegal. She could not have been as sober when she went to sleep as she thought she was if she can't remember any of that. Yeah. There's no way to know what happened. Guest, I think you should steer clear of alcohol and strangers in your bed. A better choice would have been to let him sleep on the living room floor. Not very comfortable for him, but well... he's a drunk who puked all over your bathroom. If he wants to be comfortable, he can always call a taxi or a friend to take him to his own bed. Anyway, it's a bad idea to get drunk with people from work. It really doesn't make that much of a difference if you're working at a wal-mart while you're in college, but you said you're a professional, and in your professional career, it's a very poor decision. I hope you see that now.
crazy_grl Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 Oh, and a far as whether this stuff 'just happens' sometimes... Well, I've never heard of it just happening. I've heard all sorts of other crazy s*** 'just happening', but usually not when one or more person isn't hammered.
Cecelius Posted June 23, 2005 Posted June 23, 2005 Was it possibly rape (or usually a 3rd degree sexual assault as defined in statutory language like sexual contact with a person the assaulter KNOWS to be unconscious or mentally disabled)? Maybe. Since you both were drunk, and you don't really know what happened, you may not have been unconscious. Who knows. It's just not a great story to try to tell (and for that matter, it reads like 90% of the ONS I ever heard about). I would focus more on how you feel about it and what you can do to get past it.
norcaldivr Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 Years ago the company I worked for had a meeting to raise awareness about sexual harassment. One of the corporate attorneys was a speaker. He talked about an incident which was very similar in some ways. Two co-workers, both married, got together one night when their respective spouses were out of town. They got very drunk and were both naked in the hot tub. The next morning she "discovered" they had sex the night before. She called police. He was convicted of rape and the company got sued for mega$$ I found this story shocking. Maybe I'm just looking at it from a male point of view but they were both very drunk, naked in the hot tub, and had no memory of the night before. How the hell could a jury convict based on a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard is beyond me. With no memory of the night before it was not even a he-said she-said kind of thing. Maybe some legal minds can chime in on this. The impression I got was that the conviction and megabuck lawsuit was based on their character. She: upstanding pillar of the community, he: player. At the risk of sounding cynical, it seems that the standard of rape has been expanded from lack of consent at the time to include regret that consent was given after the fact.
Cecelius Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 There are plenty of statutes regarding sexual assault that go to whether the victim was unconscious (drunk, high, asleep) and the assaulter KNOWS this. My guess is that the facts that the jury decided to believe were different from what parts were reported later on to make a good story. Yes, no means no, but as one writer put it somewhat controversially a few years back, if you're doing shots on the second floor of a fraternity house, try not to complain too much when you can't find your drawers the next day.
InmannRoshi Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 If he doesn't remember anything, it's kind of odd that he would write an appology letter. If I puked all over someone's bathroom and made a drunken mess out of myself to the point where I blacked out, I'd probably offer an apology the next day.
guest Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 Ummm .. okay, maybe it is just me, but this seemed like rape to me. Helloooo, bloody fingerprints that were not hers, clothes off??? Seemed that she had the presence of mind to tell him nothing was going to happen, even remained fully clothed and investigated his puke scene and told him to clean it up ... and gave him water. Point is, she KNEW she had her period, so she was not going to willingly let him sex her up ... I think she was in a deep sleep, (alcohol does that sometimes) and didn't feel him fiddling around with her or her clothes. He either a. had sex with her b. saw the bloody tampon mess, realized she was on her rag, backed off and passed out..... His apology letter ... strange for someone who "blacks out."
Groovy Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 Because it happened out of work, this cannot be considered sexual harrassment at the workplace. I am really sorry you went through what you did. It sounds like an awful experience. I agree with Tony, be happy you are alive. Your body is O.K, you just need to heal the emotional wounds of it all and learn to trust again. Getting drunk and allowing someone you don't know very well to be with you for the night was not a good choice. But I think a lot of women make this mistake and learn from it. The only way this is considered illegal is if he slipped you a "roofie". It's odd you don't remember anything and I find that a little suspicious. The only way to know if it was a roofie is to get your blood checked, and it would need to be done in the first 2 weeks or so of the event. Obviously slipping you a drug to wipe out your memory and take advantage of you is considered illegal and I have seen it happen. You drinking and possible giving consent and blacking out is not considered illegal. They may not take you seriously if you were drinking but it you think you have it in you and your willing to go public for the means of justifying what was wrong, then do it. Just be prepared for some difficulty. I think doing it anonymously will do nothing. You must be willing to put yourself out there (and I have gone through this where it was illegal). Hope everything works out for you.
crazy_grl Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by InmannRoshi If I puked all over someone's bathroom and made a drunken mess out of myself to the point where I blacked out, I'd probably offer an apology the next day. Which would make sense if that's all that happened. But if you woke up next to a naked woman with blood all over, it kind of makes that your immediate focus and the rest would fade into the background. Throwing up in the bathroom kind of pales in comparison. Maybe he was appologizing for that, but somehow I don't think that was what was foremost on his mind. That's why I asked if the letter said what he was appologizing for.
crazy_grl Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 Also, if I woke up next to someone, saw blood all around us, and didn't have any memory of what happened, I'd probably wake the person up to find out if they were all right.
Cecelius Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 I think he was apologizing because the OP was clearly disturbed by it while he(other than some unappetizing details) seemed to regard it initially as an ordinary ONS. Second, especially since he seemed to like her, he wanted to square it up with her. It doesn't mean he believes something illegal went on.
crazy_grl Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by Cecelius I think he was apologizing because the OP was clearly disturbed by it while he(other than some unappetizing details) seemed to regard it initially as an ordinary ONS. Second, especially since he seemed to like her, he wanted to square it up with her. It doesn't mean he believes something illegal went on. He wasn't appologizing because she was distrubed by it. He wrote the appology note before they even said a word to each other. Which indicates that he had reason to believe that she would be disturbed by it when she woke up, and that he didn't regard it as an ordinary ONS. IMO, a normal person would not wake up next to someone with both of them partially covered in blood, having no memory of the events, and not be somewhat concerned with the other person's safety. If they didn't know what had went on, it would make sense to wake that person to see if they were seriously injured and need medical attention. But I guess if you're used to having ONS where you end up covered in blood, then maybe you wouldn't... Most people equate blood with injury if they don't know the circumstances surround where it came from. The fact that he didn't indicates to me he had some memory of it, and that he lied to her when he said he didn't.
laRubiaBonita Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 well, i have a hard time believing ANY of the story! if you both were THAT drunk, how could you manage to clean the bathroom? and even if you did clean, by the time your drunk arsses, gao the bathroom clean, you would both be sober! don't phyisicist make lots of $$$? lure women with that......that would like moths to a flame!!!
InmannRoshi Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 Especially suspicious since this guy was supposedly so sloppily drunk that he couldn’t even get his keys into his car door, proceeded to vomit all over the bathroom … then when she falls asleep he collects the stealth ability ability of a ninja who can disrobe a girl and finger bang her without waking her. Sounds like a classic case of "He slurred/She slurred".
laRubiaBonita Posted June 24, 2005 Posted June 24, 2005 Originally posted by laRubiaBonita don't phyisicist make lots of $$$? lure women with that......that would like moths to a flame!!! ooopss~ wrong post!
Recommended Posts