Wave Rider Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 So I've done a lot of reading, and I feel like I have a pretty good idea of what the red flags are that someone will be a bad partner: they're dishonest, they're narcissistic, they're emotionally unavailable, etc. It doesn't seem quite so easy to identify a good partner. For example, take honesty. It's easy to tell if someone is not honest, because their stories don't add up. But how do you tell if someone is honest? If you've known a person for two weeks and they haven't lied to you yet, is that good evidence that they're honest? I kinda don't think so. I consider other qualities that a good partner would have, qualities like empathy, vulnerability, emotional availability. These things aren't quite so easy to see. And they often require time to come out. Time is really the only test of character. You don't get a good idea for a person's level of empathy when you meet them at a party and they're half-drunk. You can't stereotype these qualities either, meaning you can't say that people who appear to be a certain "type" of person tend to have these desirable qualities. As far as I can tell, the surest sign that someone is a good relationship partner is that they are already in a relationship. This doesn't help me much in meeting people. I have often badly misread these qualities in people. I have met women who seemed warm and affectionate at first meeting, only to find out as time progressed that they were cold and distant. I have met women who seemed empathetic, supportive, and interested in me, only to find out later that they already had boyfriends and were stringing me along, presumably because they liked the attention. I have met women who seemed to be vulnerable in expressing themselves, only to find out that as time passed, they were incapable of real intimacy. I admit that I badly misread these women. I don't know how to discern who has the qualities of a good partner. Some people seem to have a real intuition for picking a good partner, just as I have a real intuition for picking a bad one. I can only imagine that there are a thousand nonverbal cues that telegraph if a person is a good partner. To those who have good intuition for finding a good partner, the good partner "feels right," while the bad partner feels wrong. To me, the bad partner feels right, and the good partner feels wrong. I can only guess that for some people, there is something about a good partner that just feels right. I don't have that kind of intuition. How can I identify a good partner?
JustGettingBy Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 If you have anyone who mutually knows both you and them, that can be a good avenue. Otherwise, I got nothing.
Buddhist Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 To me, the bad partner feels right, and the good partner feels wrong. How can I identify a good partner? You already know. 1
Gloria25 Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) By knowing what you want in a partner and by taking the time to get to know the person you are seeing. My fav podcaster believes you need 1 1/2 to 2 years of actual "dating" (not friends, co-workers, shack-ups, LDRs) to get to know someone. Why? Cuz over time you get to see them handle stuff. If they presented themselves a certain way or you "thought" they were a certain way - trust me, 1 1/2 years you'll find out for sure what they're all about. And "friends" is not the same as "dating". You may have been their friend for 5 years, but people are not gonna be the same way like a "friend" as they are as "dating". For example, I'd pick my nose in front of a "friend" - I wouldn't do that in front of someone I'm dating. "Co-workers" is the same as "friends". You're not gonna be the same with someone you work with vs someone you have romantic interest in. "Shack-ups" aren't good, cuz when two people start living under the same roof, they feel pressured to take it to the next level. They also comingled finances, so it makes it harder to back out. So, while people think shack-ups are a good "test-drive", in fact, it puts more pressure on the couple to make it work out when if you were living separately, you can date them and be more objective about how the RL is going. Besides, you don't need to actually "live" with someone to find out stuff about them. For example, spend a weekend at their place, visit them spontaneously. If their place is a mess, then there you go - if you marry them you're gonna marry a slob. Can they pay their bills on their own? Ok, then if you marry them one day, no worries about comingling finances. "LDRs". Those are hard cuz if you're only seeing someone like every weekend or every few weeks, again, that isn't the same as them being down the street. For that weekend/visit - it's like of course you're gonna see them at their best behavior. They're probably gonna even clean up their place for your visit. My nephew LDRd with is ex-wife and yep, he said that until they moved in together and married, he had no idea X, Y, and Z about her. I mean, even if you jump and marry someone w/o properly dating them, trust me, if you hold off on having kids with them for the first 2-3 years of the marriage (to allow you both to "bond" - like people try to do by shaking-up), you'll find out who they are, just like my nephew did after marrying that witch. So, again, you'll recognize a good partner if: 1) You "know" what a good partner must be; and, 2) Taking the time to get to know them (properly dating them). To add... How do you also know you have a good partner? By getting feedback from people who have healthy and good RLs. Unfortunately, parents now a days are too scared to be frank with their kids about their choices in mates and/or are too screwed up themselves to give any good guidance on how to chose a mate/partner. Edited May 22, 2016 by Gloria25 3
basil67 Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 Yes, a good partner is someone who it feels good to be with. >>I have often badly misread these qualities in people. I have met women who seemed warm and affectionate at first meeting, only to find out as time progressed that they were cold and distant. I have met women who seemed empathetic, supportive, and interested in me, only to find out later that they already had boyfriends and were stringing me along, presumably because they liked the attention. I have met women who seemed to be vulnerable in expressing themselves, only to find out that as time passed, they were incapable of real intimacy. I admit that I badly misread these women.<< This is normal, normal, normal. And it's why we caution people to not profess undying love in the first few months. Very few people are able to get a good read on someone in the first few meets. Or the first couple of months for that matter. Sure, there are some who show themselves as drop kicks early on, but others take time to get to noow. As Gloria says, it can take a year to really get to know them thoroughly and work out if they are who we want.
Emilia Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 I think what you fail to see - and this is extremely hard to see - is your own contribution to the dynamic with these women. Dating is action and reaction, there is obviously something that attracts you to these women and there is something in you that makes them behave the way they do. It's only natural, no-one is an island, it's always about a dynamic between two people. It's a very hard one to deal with though because you start going into areas of cognition and how your emotions affect your thinking, etc. 2
seamos Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 Two weeks like you mentioned is nowhere near enough time. People usually date for a year or more before getting married. I don't think there's any dependable way to rush things. One way to help identify someone who may be a good partner for you, I believe, is communication. Not just being able to talk about lots of things but for it to feel comfortable, safe, and easy discussing issues both personal and general. I've had partners who had a lot of attractive qualities but I didn't quite feel relaxed or trusting enough w/ them to totally be myself, and then I've occasionally had someone who could be counted on to always be thoughtful, considerate and level headed in their response. For a LTR the latter is always the best. 1
xxoo Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 You can't know for sure within 2 weeks if someone is a good partner. It's just not possible. But there are signs. The first is the amt of interest. It should be strong, but measured. If it is over the top--while that may feel really good--it's a bad sign. It can only go one way: down. So there should be interest, but evidence of self control and healthy amounts of communication. Interest should be higher at 2 months than at 2 weeks. It should steadily increase, moving from "I'm excited about this person, and eager to go on more dates and see where it goes" at 2 weeks to "Wow, I'm really into this person and we are on cloud 9 together on every date" at 2 months. Usually, they will also have a relationship history that indicates good relationship potential. 1
Author Wave Rider Posted May 22, 2016 Author Posted May 22, 2016 You already know. So you're saying that if I feel chemistry for someone, I should stay away from them, and if something about someone feels wrong or makes me scared or uncomfortable, then (barring any obvious safety issues about the person) I should get to know them? Possibly.... How do you also know you have a good partner? By getting feedback from people who have healthy and good RLs. Unfortunately, parents now a days are too scared to be frank with their kids about their choices in mates and/or are too screwed up themselves to give any good guidance on how to chose a mate/partner. This is a good measure, but it really only works if you've already picked someone. For my girlfriend before last, I had three people (my mom, sister, and a close friend) tell me that they were not impressed with her. I ignored their warnings, but by then it was too late to change much about the relationship. I've also ignored praise by other people for some of the women I dated. Very few people are able to get a good read on someone in the first few meets. I think what you fail to see - and this is extremely hard to see - is your own contribution to the dynamic with these women. Dating is action and reaction, there is obviously something that attracts you to these women and there is something in you that makes them behave the way they do. It's only natural, no-one is an island, it's always about a dynamic between two people. It's a very hard one to deal with though because you start going into areas of cognition and how your emotions affect your thinking, etc. What I'm really trying to say here is that some people really just seem to have a nose for picking a good partner. If I am to blame for consistently picking bad partners, then does it not follow that people who picked good partners should be given credit for picking a good partner? If I am the reason that I consistently pick bad partners, then if someone picks a good partner, it is become of them, right? So what do people who have a nose for picking a good partner know that I don't know? That's really the question I'm asking here. I have a lot of Mormon friends who married young; the men were 21-25 and the women were 19-23. Many of them married their first girlfriend/boyfriend, and most of them dated for only a few months before getting engaged. And instead of crashing and burning, most of them seem quite happy. Why is this so? I can only think of two explanations: 1) they had a nose for sniffing out a good partner, or 2) they were just lucky. Here in 'murica, we like to believe that we have complete control of our own destiny and that luck has nothing to do with success, so it's gotta be answer #1 in this case. You can't know for sure within 2 weeks if someone is a good partner. It's just not possible. But there are signs. You can sometimes know within two weeks if someone is a bad partner, but not if they're a good partner. But I'm talking about something different here. The process of picking people is different than the process of evaluating them over time. If I consistently pick bad partners, it's because something about my "picker" is wrong. And if someone picks a good partner, it's because their "picker" is good. So what is it about the person with the good "picker" that is different from my bad "picker"? What does a person with a good "picker" know and look for that I don't know and that I don't look for?
mikeylo Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 It's a hit and run in the dark! Good people are looking for good people while 'bad people ' are also looking for good people , lol but they don't want to bring the same on the table. It's very hard and that's a reason why so many people are single!
xxoo Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 You can sometimes know within two weeks if someone is a bad partner, but not if they're a good partner. But I'm talking about something different here. The process of picking people is different than the process of evaluating them over time. If I consistently pick bad partners, it's because something about my "picker" is wrong. And if someone picks a good partner, it's because their "picker" is good. So what is it about the person with the good "picker" that is different from my bad "picker"? What does a person with a good "picker" know and look for that I don't know and that I don't look for? That's what I described in my post. Evaluate their early behavior. It's the Goldilocks thing: not too little interest, not too much interest, but just right. What is the behavior of a new dating partner that "hooks" you so that you are attached and they are pulling away at 2 months in? Whatever that behavior is, avoid it. But first you need to identify it.
katiegrl Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 There is no such thing as a *bad* partner. Just cuz a woman ends up being bad *for you* ..... with another man she may be a great partner! And vice versa. It is how you interact* together. As Emilia said, the dynamic you have developed with each other. How she acts, and how you react. How YOU act and how she reacts. How can you tell? By utilizing your intuition and paying attention to the dynamic you have established. Together. By looking within and recognizing your own role in how the relationship suddenly turned unhealthy. And distant. How a woman who appeared to be so good *for you* in the beginning, suddenly turned bad *for you.* Stop blaming it on the woman being a *bad* partner.... it take two to make a relationship and two to break it or turn it unhealthy. Emotionally Healthy people attract healthy relationships.. long term Unhealthy people attract unhealthy relationships, which end up turning toxic and breaking. Continue introspecting and READING. I have another great book for you. "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell. It discusses intuition and how to develop it. People who have a knack for choosing people who are good for *them* long term have great insight and strong intuition.
mikeylo Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 It could be debatable but I guess, it takes one person to destroy a relationship and two to make it successful.
Author Wave Rider Posted May 22, 2016 Author Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) I have another great book for you. "Blink" by Malcolm Gladwell. Yeah, this book is what I'm talking about. When we meet someone for the first time and are unconsciously sizing them up as a potential partner, we pick up thousands of pieces of information about them. There are a few pieces of this information that matter and thousands of pieces of that are irrelevant. People who have a good "picker" have the intuition to know which pieces matter, and what those pieces mean. Just as Gladwell points out that student's ratings of professors were the same regardless of whether they'd observed the instructor for one semester or literally two seconds, my experience watching many people date and get married is that people with a good "picker" can spot a good partner regardless of amount of time spent with that person. What is the behavior of a new dating partner that "hooks" you so that you are attached and they are pulling away at 2 months in? Whatever that behavior is, avoid it. But first you need to identify it. Well, thinking of my two most significant relationships, something about those women felt deeply familiar very quickly (this was my "picker" working.) In one case, I'd felt as if I'd met my "other half." The fact is that both those relationships went bad almost from the moment we decided to be exclusive, but I put up with the bad relationship for 6 weeks in both cases. Someone who saw the red flags would have ended the relationship much sooner. Something about both those women felt magical, and there was this sort of unexplainable chemistry between us. That's why I picked them. The relationship went bad almost immediately. It's a hit and run in the dark! I go back and forth with this one. In many ways, it seems that the most important factor in a person's relationship success is whether or not they are simply lucky. Most people hate this because they like to believe that they have complete control over their lives. Some people are lucky to be attracted to good partners, and then they are lucky to have a partner who will stay with them and who doesn't cause major problems. I go back and forth between that and the belief that I alone choose what my life will be. Relationships are probably some combination of luck and skill. Edited May 22, 2016 by Wave Rider
katiegrl Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) Yeah, this book is what I'm talking about. When we meet someone for the first time and are unconsciously sizing them up as a potential partner, we pick up thousands of pieces of information about them. There are a few pieces of this information that matter and thousands of pieces of that are irrelevant. People who have a good "picker" have the intuition to know which pieces matter, and what those pieces mean. Just as Gladwell points out that student's ratings of professors were the same regardless of whether they'd observed the instructor for one semester or literally two seconds, my experience watching many people date and get married is that people with a good "picker" can spot a good partner regardless of amount of time spent with that person. Well, thinking of my two most significant relationships, something about those women felt deeply familiar very quickly (this was my "picker" working.) In one case, I'd felt as if I'd met my "other half." The fact is that both those relationships went bad almost from the moment we decided to be exclusive, but I put up with the bad relationship for 6 weeks in both cases. Someone who saw the red flags would have ended the relationship much sooner. Something about both those women felt magical, and there was this sort of unexplainable chemistry between us. That's why I picked them. The relationship went bad almost immediately. Have you actually read the book? Because it provides the tools you need to develop strong intuition and a better *picker*. But even if you don have a great picker, once you realize the person is bad for you, you can still choose to leave. Despite the strong chemistry. That is called taking care of your own needs and being smart! And has nothing to do within intuition, but instead having the STRENGTH to walk away from an unhealthy situation. Why did you choose to stay for six weeks after you started noticing the red flags? That's on you. Edited May 22, 2016 by katiegrl
katiegrl Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 Recognizing red flags early on is also about living in the reality of how it *is* and not how you *want* it to be. It means taking off the proverbial blinders and stop living in denial. It means stop idealizing and fantasizing. It means educating yourself about human nature which it sounds like what you are currently doing.
SoleMate Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 I have a lot of Mormon friends who married young; the men were 21-25 and the women were 19-23. Many of them married their first girlfriend/boyfriend, and most of them dated for only a few months before getting engaged. And instead of crashing and burning, most of them seem quite happy. Why is this so? I can only think of two explanations: 1) they had a nose for sniffing out a good partner, or 2) they were just lucky. Or, more likely.....they shared common values and life goals, understood the importance of family, and are part of a culture that supports and reinforces married stability. 3
katiegrl Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) Or, more likely.....they shared common values and life goals, understood the importance of family, and are part of a culture that supports and reinforces married stability. Yes agree, it's this^^, more than anything. Edited May 22, 2016 by katiegrl
xxoo Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 Well, thinking of my two most significant relationships, something about those women felt deeply familiar very quickly (this was my "picker" working.) In one case, I'd felt as if I'd met my "other half." The fact is that both those relationships went bad almost from the moment we decided to be exclusive, but I put up with the bad relationship for 6 weeks in both cases. Someone who saw the red flags would have ended the relationship much sooner. Something about both those women felt magical, and there was this sort of unexplainable chemistry between us. That's why I picked them. The relationship went bad almost immediately.. We've all felt chemistry. It says nothing about compatibility. I've felt chemistry with men who would be absolutely horrible partners for me. I don't know if that automatically means you have a bad picker, or just that you haven't learned to hold back and let things develop before dreaming about a life together with this new person. Still...I bet there are some behavioral patterns that trigger that chemistry for you. You may not recognize it yet.
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