merrmeade Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 First of all, if you had never found out, then the old chestnut "what the eye doesn't see the heart won't grieve over" springs to mind. He would have carried on betraying you, and maybe have had further flings in addition to the one you discovered and the ones he additionally confessed to, which means remorse was driven by discovery, not guilt. Secondly, it seems he is imposing self-control through prohibition, not through duty or Marital vow. I need not elaborate, because you are drawn to the same conclusion. Ergo, it seems you cannot forgive because he has not proven himself deserving of it. Were he truly contrite, remorseful and full of genuine regret, it might prove easier. it seems more and more that you have adopted a façade of normality and progress, to hide the fact that - in fact - you are still wounded and broken by his cavalier dismissal of your marriage. He holds it in far less worth than you do, if confining himself to barracks is what it takes to stop himself from straying, rather than any dedication, devotion or commitment to you. I'm sorry, that';s an entirely hideous picture. I really do feel for you, ShouldaKnownBetter. No wonder you have this feeling of malaise and dissatisfaction. It goes a lot deeper than it originally appeared. May I ask, why do you stay married to a man who it seems holds the sanctity of marriage to a lesser importance than you? What is it you are trying to maintain? ye gods, you're good, TM. Hard to answer people like you right off the bat, so give me a while. Besides today is family get-together day with one birthday. Happiness.
merrmeade Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 okay, everybody. I can't stand it and I'm too clumsy and scatterbrained to maintain this charade. Forget "ShoudaKnownBetter." I, merrmeade, am she and I can't remember my name in real life either. So, sorry. Not sure why I did it either and thanks, Mods, for trying to help me keep it straight. Should have realized it was a lost cause. I'm just too impulsive for such manipulations. :o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o 3
TaraMaiden2 Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 I know why you did it. It's fine. Don't worry. We all love and support you anyway, no matter what your name is. Names are just labels. It's heart that counts, and you obviously have one worth embracing. Be well, enjoy the Birthday happiness.... 2
elaine567 Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 I can tell he's already made a connection with the female teacher even though she's even older than he is. He just does. He always does whether he thinks he's trying or even trying not to. They come on to him... I want friends. Now, I also know that my husband got involved with a couple of women that I thought were my friends but actually were his. Like I said, I don't want to dissect that past in this thread - it's been done, believe me, and is what it is. I just want to take care of me now. I'm saying, I know I had a raw deal in adulthood and should've had more friends. In part, I wasn't great at keeping up but another part was his ridiculous, charming attractiveness that I should've realized meant they weren't the friends I needed anyway. I'm really sick of thinking about my husband's problems. I just want a better life myself. Problem here is that as long as you stay with your husband, you are never going to have the friends you truly desire, as in the back of your mind will always be your husband and his "ridiculous attractiveness". You are going to have to pass potential friends through a filter, is she attractive? Will she be attractive to my husband? Is she looking to steal my husband off me? Will he steal her away from me? The interesting, caring, fun people you want in your life, you will have to reject. So unless you surround yourself with boring women or the 80+ or lesbians...(but even they may spurn you for attention from him), then you will never be completely relaxed around them, as long as he is in the picture.
merrmeade Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 Problem here is that as long as you stay with your husband, you are never going to have the friends you truly desire, as in the back of your mind will always be your husband and his "ridiculous attractiveness". You are going to have to pass potential friends through a filter, is she attractive? Will she be attractive to my husband? Is she looking to steal my husband off me? Will he steal her away from me? The interesting, caring, fun people you want in your life, you will have to reject. So unless you surround yourself with boring women or the 80+ or lesbians...(but even they may spurn you for attention from him), then you will never be completely relaxed around them, as long as he is in the picture. No, Lois had it right: I think the sad truth is that he's older now and just doesn't have the same itch to chase skirts like he used to. Even old alley cats eventually have to slow down and stop their prowling. But it's not because they've suddenly seen the light. Plus he WAS ridiculously attractive but now just ordinary old-looking with some walking issues and a belly. Works for me.
TaraMaiden2 Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 No, Lois had it right: Plus he WAS ridiculously attractive but now just ordinary old-looking with some walking issues and a belly. Works for me.That would be quite amusing were it not for the appendage facts of the matter. That he was never the devoted, charismatic yet faithful husband you deserved, but was willing "victim" to the women he was able to entice. Now he is aged and less well-presented, it is only this which prevents his continuation, not his renewed energy in being the husband you always unquestionably deserved. The tragedy is that it DOESN'T 'work for you'. And it seems it never uniquely did. 1
elaine567 Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 No, Lois had it right: Plus he WAS ridiculously attractive but now just ordinary old-looking with some walking issues and a belly. Works for me. Ok, but what about the " I can tell he's already made a connection with the female teacher even though she's even older than he is. He just does. He always does whether he thinks he's trying or even trying not to. They come on to him and he has, of course, never dealt with the personality/character issues that allowed the affairs to happen in the first place."
ladydesigner Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 I haven't read through the entire thread, but just to let you know... There is a whole world of ladies who need this bond and friendships that last. Since my WH's infidelity I made the decision that I needed a support system of great women and found exactly that! It is worth it's weight in gold! Get out there OP and go meet your future friends they are waiting for you. I see you are making yourself the priority too, smart woman;) 3
merrmeade Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 (edited) Ok, but what about the " I can tell he's already made a connection with the female teacher even though she's even older than he is. He just does. He always does whether he thinks he's trying or even trying not to. They come on to him and he has, of course, never dealt with the personality/character issues that allowed the affairs to happen in the first place." It's just a hunch - you know, the kind. We've read them lots here. Because of the way he talks about the class and because I know him. He's told me how he helps these classmates and those who are new. IOW he's ALWAYS the rescuer/humble hero in EVERY situation. He wants to be liked, admired, flattered so much but has no clue that everything he does is for that end. Yeah, I know. Narcissist pattern. But point is, I just know how he wants everyone to think he's great, gets upset when he comes home from this (art) class with less than greatness. Also he's been asking me tentatively if he should keep taking the class. Something's bothering him. About the teacher - older by at least five years, maybe more - but doesn't matter. She's been helping him a lot, complimented his work to a class and encouraging him to keep coming. Now, of course, that could be exactly what it is - a teacher being a good teacher. But remember this is his report to me about the situation. Like I said. Just wondering based on past experience and knowing how great everyone always thinks he is and how women are so pulled in by the humility, helpfulness, generosity, etc. You will question - well, is he really like that? The answer is - at home, no. To me, no. I do not need to be won and I do not "admire." I try to make him feel more secure and accomplished (which he is) but from me it's not enough. Like I said, narcissist who doesn't have a clue what that looks like. And, yes, I've asked questions but so far he immediately knows what I'm wondering and takes it that I'm accusing him. He doesn't reflect on it himself or consider the possibility. Maybe I could approach it that way - maybe he doesn't realize, etc. But, like I said, he's not good with conversations that include information or events in which he looked bad. Tough nut. Part of it is I don't want him to think he's so god-awful wonderful and I'm that needy and that is the reason I"m asking. Fact is - it would not wound me. If he let anything go in the wrong direction, it would disgust and piss me off once and for all. Problem, therefore, is getting a clear bead on things. So mostly I just think, "wtf. Let him f-k up. I know what I'll do." BUt I don't think he will. IN fact, I know he won't. He won't let anything get out of hand - unless I'm not here for an extended period like before. But the fact that another woman might be interested in him because he knows how to make women interested in him and then enjoys the attention and tries to take it as normal and all about him and his (need for) greatness. That bothers me a lot. COmmunication issues, yes, because he's so closed and not in touch with himself. PRobe, ask the wrong questions and the ego jumps up, injured, conversation over. If I ask him about any of this, it's got to be with his welfare uppermost in my presentation to get him anywhere close to hinting at some of the possible dynamics. And it has to be someone else's problem or issue if there are less than desirable elements at play. That's how we roll. Hey we're different but mostly okay with that. SOmetimes I really marvel at his tolerance and ability to let things go. He does love me and knows me. Just doesn't know himself. A lot of this I know the answer to.... Edited May 22, 2016 by merrmeade
merrmeade Posted May 22, 2016 Posted May 22, 2016 God, we write these things, read them - with the eye we read others' posts - and can't believe we're so dense. Pardon the "we." Just needed to think I'm not the only one. Okay, so I read that last post and thought why is there anything wrong with what I said he's doing? Well, because it's just like what he always did. Really. He really does 'play a role' in public that's like a different person. And really. Women just think he's so wonderful, generous, kind, sensitive (and sometimes misunderstood by his wife). So what was different about in the past was that if circumstances were right and he knew the person really, really well, sometimes things got out of hand. So the fact that he STILL goes in the same direction, interacts with people he works with the same way - mostly women only - never mentions men - that just means he hasn't changed. He hasn't changed. That's what bothers me the most. He doesn't have the self-reflection, judgment to see it. And it's not just in this situation. I sound like a complete, cold-hearted bitch who can't at least stroke her partner with whatever soothing niceties make him feel loved. Well, I f-cking can't "act" in relationships. There are plenty of nice things I say genuinely but never enough. Where the hell is this going? I don't know any more. Why am I talking about MC topics? Back to the cake... 2
ladydesigner Posted May 23, 2016 Posted May 23, 2016 God, we write these things, read them - with the eye we read others' posts - and can't believe we're so dense. Pardon the "we." Just needed to think I'm not the only one. Okay, so I read that last post and thought why is there anything wrong with what I said he's doing? Well, because it's just like what he always did. Really. He really does 'play a role' in public that's like a different person. And really. Women just think he's so wonderful, generous, kind, sensitive (and sometimes misunderstood by his wife). So what was different about in the past was that if circumstances were right and he knew the person really, really well, sometimes things got out of hand. So the fact that he STILL goes in the same direction, interacts with people he works with the same way - mostly women only - never mentions men - that just means he hasn't changed. He hasn't changed. That's what bothers me the most. He doesn't have the self-reflection, judgment to see it. And it's not just in this situation. I sound like a complete, cold-hearted bitch who can't at least stroke her partner with whatever soothing niceties make him feel loved. Well, I f-cking can't "act" in relationships. There are plenty of nice things I say genuinely but never enough. Where the hell is this going? I don't know any more. Why am I talking about MC topics? Back to the cake... I hear ya (((merrmeade))) my WH wouldn't know what is wrong with him if it hit him in the head. Mine too is butthurt over anything that makes him look bad, even when it is him that makes him look bad I find it unfortunate that my WH is not enlightened to the fact that he can make himself a better person. Again I think it is Narcissism in play. I don't know if he is a complete Narcissist, but his IC sat me down one day and said he cannot see past himself, does not think there is anything wrong or needs to change At least I know it was never me. That I do know. All my Wh's problems solely lie on him. He tries to project his miseries onto me often, but I brush it off because I know what it is that he is trying to do. HE gets nowhere with me until he works on himself. 2
merrmeade Posted May 24, 2016 Posted May 24, 2016 I hear ya (((merrmeade))) my WH wouldn't know what is wrong with him if it hit him in the head. Mine too is butthurt over anything that makes him look bad, even when it is him that makes him look bad I find it unfortunate that my WH is not enlightened to the fact that he can make himself a better person. Again I think it is Narcissism in play. I don't know if he is a complete Narcissist, but his IC sat me down one day and said he cannot see past himself, does not think there is anything wrong or needs to change At least I know it was never me. That I do know. All my Wh's problems solely lie on him. He tries to project his miseries onto me often, but I brush it off because I know what it is that he is trying to do. HE gets nowhere with me until he works on himself. Thank you, ld. Glad I'm not the only one. So I got up quickly from the computer after my last post and left the window open. My husband read the last two and was very hurt, especially my questioning his relationship with his teacher. I said, well, maybe this is a good opportunity to talk then and tried to explain ... No use. I don't think anyone can accept a disparaging portrayal of themselves with unproven labels and I'm sorry he feels betrayed. It will just make him more guarded. It wouldn't have been the way I'd have liked to explain my misgivings to him. But today the baby stayed here, which always makes people soften.
TaraMaiden2 Posted May 24, 2016 Posted May 24, 2016 Thank you, ld. Glad I'm not the only one. So I got up quickly from the computer after my last post and left the window open. My husband read the last two and was very hurt, especially my questioning his relationship with his teacher. I said, well, maybe this is a good opportunity to talk then and tried to explain ... No use.Sadly, not surprising, given his reluctance to change his ways for you and your marriage, rather than for his own purposes... I don't think anyone can accept a disparaging portrayal of themselves with unproven labels I don't see any 'unproven' anything, myself...I think the evidence is crystal-clear as to how accurate his labels are. If that's what you mean... and I'm sorry he feels betrayed. HE feels Betrayed? Really? You're kidding me... It will just make him more guarded. Which in itself, from where I'm sitting, is just him hammering one more nail in.... It wouldn't have been the way I'd have liked to explain my misgivings to him....I think it wouldn't matter which way you would have chosen. Would the result have been any different? 2
Liam1 Posted May 24, 2016 Posted May 24, 2016 No, I'm interested in me. I don't want an affair. I want friends. My own women friends or couple friends, probably both. Good friends - like when I was young. Through college years I had good friends that were fun, loyal, caring and wonderful to talk to. Even as a young wife and mother I had friends, but we'd already begun moving a lot. Now, I also know that my husband got involved with a couple of women that I thought were my friends but actually were his. Like I said, I don't want to dissect that past in this thread - it's been done, believe me, and is what it is. I just want to take care of me now. I'm saying, I know I had a raw deal in adulthood and should've had more friends. In part, I wasn't great at keeping up but another part was his ridiculous, charming attractiveness that I should've realized meant they weren't the friends I needed anyway. There is a book called: "Alone Together" by Sherry Turkle It explains why more and more people are complaining about how difficult it is to find good friends to socialize with. Most likely it is not anything you are doing. It is more that society has changed and people don't seek in-person personal connections the way they did in the past. Below in bold is a portion of the book: Technology has become the architect of our intimacies. Online, we fall prey to the illusion of companionship, gathering thousands of Twitter and Facebook friends and confusing tweets and wall posts with authentic communication. But, as MIT technology and society specialist Sherry Turkle argues, this relentless connection leads to a new solitude. As technology ramps up, our emotional lives ramp down. Alone Together is the result of Turkle's nearly fifteen-year exploration of our lives on the digital terrain. Based on hundreds of interviews, it describes new unsettling relationships between friends, lovers, parents, and children, and new instabilities in how we understand privacy and community, intimacy, and solitude. 1
ladydesigner Posted May 24, 2016 Posted May 24, 2016 Sadly, not surprising, given his reluctance to change his ways for you and your marriage, rather than for his own purposes... I don't see any 'unproven' anything, myself...I think the evidence is crystal-clear as to how accurate his labels are. If that's what you mean... HE feels Betrayed? Really? You're kidding me... Which in itself, from where I'm sitting, is just him hammering one more nail in.... I think it wouldn't matter which way you would have chosen. Would the result have been any different? Yep I agree with Tara's post. It is exactly how I feel. My WH labels are crystal clear! He can either do something about it or not. Not my concern anymore. I've let go of the rope. What irritates me the most is when Waywards say that they will not let their A define them. What kind of bull hockey is that? Of course it defines you. I can't say that I have never had an affair because I did years ago in response to my WH's first A. I don't go around like a martyr though. 1
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