Is this infidelity?

[JennyS]

I do agree with your opinions about the psychologist. I am not sure if these were his words or my H's, although my H had actually already let me look through all his online history and log onto his Facebook. We have never had secrets from each other before all this happened.

[elaine567]

Can anybody put this into some kind of perspective for me? Do men really just do things like this without giving it another thought? Am I asking something that is impossible for him to do?

 

He doesn't want to tell YOU why he did those things or how he felt as it would make him look bad or upset you further, so he instead ducks the issue.

 

I know you feel you want "the truth", but I guess the truth will be very hard for you to hear, hence why he is playing dumb.

So whilst he has dutifully toddled off to see an psychologist to "sort out his head", it is not very hard to understand why a middle aged man is seeking out hotties online, flirting with them, offering them rides on his bike and suggesting they camp out in his garden... Is it?

 

I know you want to save your marriage, but you have to see this for what it is.

[Lois_Griffin]

Can anybody put this into some kind of perspective for me? Do men really just do things like this without giving it another thought? Am I asking something that is impossible for him to do?

He knows why he did it.

 

It was fun, he got ego strokes from it, the lure of sexual variety is very tempting, and he wanted to experience what it would be like with someone else.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

But he can't TELL you this because it would hurt you. So he cops to the standard excuse, "I don't know why I did it."

 

He knows.

[JennyS]

He knows why he did it.

 

It was fun, he got ego strokes from it, the lure of sexual variety is very tempting, and he wanted to experience what it would be like with someone else.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

But he can't TELL you this because it would hurt you. So he cops to the standard excuse, "I don't know why I did it."

 

He knows.

 

Thank you for confirming what I have said all along. I simply can't accept that a person could do all these different things (be they small or big) without having any reason for doing them.

 

I explained very clearly to him last night that without a reasonable explanation from him, I am left to make my own assumptions, which could be worse than the truth. I have also told him that I have done my best to try to resolve these issues but that he seems to have just tried to avoid putting in much effort at all. I also explained that unless I can find closure, I will not be able to trust him again. In order to trust him, I need to be able to understand and believe the reasons for it all happening in the first place.

[66Charger]

Maybe the reason he did it is because of you. You constantly threaten him. 3 weeks ago you were ok, now that he hasnt explained his emotions when he liked a facebook photo, you are threatening him again. Of course he is fantasizing. At any moment, you could get dissatisfied with one of his answers and off you go

 

Here is a question. What if he put you through the ringer when you had your affair like you are doing now? YOU ACTUALLY MET ANOTHER MAN. It took him a couple of weeks to believe that there was no contact, but these "women" are from different continents. What were your "reasons" for stepping out? Or was it all his fault?

 

It seems like you will never be satisfied. More than likely, what he will feel when you finally do leave, is relief. Thats if he doesnt get enough of your threats and file first.

 

Think about it. "He is not telling me what his emotions were when he liked a facebook photo, so we are on the brink of divorce again. And why does he HAVE to have emotions, when fantasizing?

 

Really? Hows that working for you? Either cut the guy some slack or just look for another excuse, spare him the thrashing and divorce already, but stop the threats, yesterday.

 

Self.fullfilling prophecy coming right at you.

 

No thank you maam

Edited June 21, 2016 by 66Charger

[elaine567]

I also explained that unless I can find closure, I will not be able to trust him again. In order to trust him, I need to be able to understand and believe the reasons for it all happening in the first place.

 

Is it really important to HIM that you trust him though?

He weighs up "the truth", which he knows will most likely devastate you and potentially ruin your marriage, against you not trusting him, well it isn't much of a contest is it?

 

You want some small piece of hope that he loves you and that it was all a huge mistake and that he was always devoted to you and adored you and that he was ill or depressed or some other "reason" for acting a bit like a teenager on heat.

BUT you actually do know why he did it, so what is the point of badgering him for answers when you actually have a pretty good idea as to why. You have to try and avoid sounding a bit like a mother asking her teenage son over and over again why he got drunk.

 

Sometimes "the truth" is actually best left unsaid.

 

He has never been a man to express his emotions so why would he change now?

Seems you are up against the same old bugbear.

[elaine567]

...but these "women" are from different continents.

 

Er... no.

The young lady with the bike - "he had met up with her (while I was at work), had ridden on his bike with her around the city, she asked if she could spend the night camping in our garden."

 

The OP I guess is in Africa.

Edited June 21, 2016 by elaine567
fixed quote

[JennyS]

Here is a question. What if he put you through the ringer when you had your affair like you are doing now? YOU ACTUALLY MET ANOTHER MAN. It took him a couple of weeks to believe that there was no contact, but these "women" are from different continents. What were your "reasons" for stepping out? Or was it all his fault?

 

To answer your question: he put me through a living hell for well over a month after I had told him about meeting the OM. He sat for hours and hours every night, going over the online history on our PC at home as well as my school PC. He woke me during the night every time he found something that needed explaining. He phoned OM in the middle of the night and threatened to tell his wife, he emailed him as well, until eventually the OM got his lawyer to email a warning to cease and desist from harassing him. He disconnected our internet completely, for over 6 months. He threatened to leave me.... My reasons for what I did were simple - he had been completely ignoring me for months. He was either online or playing a computer game until late at night, so never came to bed at the same time as me. Our sex life was non-existent and we only communicated about day to day things. The OM I met online was a friend who had a similar situation at home. He asked me questions about me. I was flattered by the attention and affirmation.

 

 

Maybe the reason he did it is because of you. You constantly threaten him. 3 weeks ago you were ok, now that he hasnt explained his emotions when he liked a facebook photo, you are threatening him again. Of course he is fantasizing. At any moment, you could get dissatisfied with one of his answers and off you go. It seems like you will never be satisfied. More than likely, what he will feel when you finally do leave, is relief. Thats if he doesnt get enough of your threats and file first.

I actually was not okay 3 weeks ago, he just assumed it to be so because I had not said anything as I was trying to give him time to see the psychologist, or to try to work on healing our relationship. I am certainly dissatisfied with his answers because he is asking me to trust him in the future. My reasoning is that if he can do these things for no reason, I have no way of knowing that he will not do them again ‘for no reason’. If a happy marriage and an attentive wife are not enough, I need to know.

 

I have tried to explain that if he loves and cares for me he would not have tried to hide his contact with the young lady on her motorbike, nor would he be spending more time on FaceBook with women he does not even know than communicating with me.

 

Think about it. "He is not telling me what his emotions were when he liked a facebook photo, so we are on the brink of divorce again. And why does he HAVE to have emotions, when fantasizing?

Firstly, we are not on the brink of divorce again. I have told him very clearly that I love him with all my heart, and I want to spend the rest of our lives together. I don’t think it is too much to ask that I can do so safe in the knowledge that my H is not behaving inappropriately online or otherwise.

 

We all have emotions, all the time, whether they are negative or positive. Everything we do is for a reason, whether or not we are aware of it at the time. If he was fantasizing, he would have had a pleasant, exciting emotion. He would not be comfortable with me fantasizing over young men, or having them as my Facebook friends, so why should he do that to me?

 

Really? Hows that working for you? Either cut the guy some slack or just look for another excuse, spare him the thrashing and divorce already, but stop the threats, yesterday.

 

Self.fullfilling prophecy coming right at you.

Okay, so I go home tonight and act like nothing ever happened. “Don’t worry, darling, I don’t mind what you do on Facebook or IRL, I’ll just be the good wife waiting in the wings for when you get bored and need the real thing? No thank you, sir.

[lovey34]

if you were separated for a year and on the brink of divorce...why? What happened to make you move out of your home?

 

While you were separated...what kind of agreement did you have with each other? did you agree to separate but not date? did you agree to date but no sex? did you agree to live separate lives as single people?

 

It is very hard to speculate on a relationship that was already in deep trouble....without explanation of what happened previously.

 

I'm wondering if the technicality of infidelity matters much. sounds like he is in a broken part of his life an soften times men seek woman to boost their self esteem. instead of making the situation worse, i would try to find ways to encourage him and make him feel like a man again so he doesnt feel the need to get attention. some men only have these conversations for ego boosters and not for a purpose of cheating. however, one of these days you never know what might happen. if he feels an emptiness to seek attention from other woman, it is the wifes job to fulfill it the best way possible. if then there is a continuance, you have to be realistic, can you accept him and love him through this phase in life. is all these years of marriage worth throwing away because of some short term insecurity issues he may have. i don't want to pin the blame on you because its not just a wifes job.becasue a man can have a perfect wife but if they aren't compatible and were in the relationship from the beginning as a convenience, theres a chance he has always been this way. This is something you need to as yourself if you can tolerate it and be strong and let it pass or give up like 50% of marriages do?

best of luck

[66Charger]

To answer your question: he put me through a living hell for well over a month after I had told him about meeting the OM. He sat for hours and hours every night, going over the online history on our PC at home as well as my school PC. He woke me during the night every time he found something that needed explaining. He phoned OM in the middle of the night and threatened to tell his wife, he emailed him as well, until eventually the OM got his lawyer to email a warning to cease and desist from harassing him. He disconnected our internet completely, for over 6 months. He threatened to leave me....

 

Do you really think this is over?

Moo

My reasons for what I did were simple - he had been completely ignoring me for months. He was either online or playing a computer game until late at night, so never came to bed at the same time as me. Our sex life was non-existent and we only communicated about day to day things.

 

This is a.reason for MC or.a.seperation.

 

The OM I met online was a friend who had a similar situation at home. He asked me questions about me. I was flattered by the attention and affirmation.

 

This is a reason for divorce

 

I don’t think it is too much to ask that I can do so safe in the knowledge that my H is not behaving inappropriately online or otherwise.

 

What if your husband feels the same way?

 

Okay, so I go home tonight and act like nothing ever happened. “Don’t worry, darling, I don’t mind what you do on Facebook or IRL, I’ll just be the good wife waiting in the wings for when you get bored and need the real thing? No thank you, sir.

 

After your affair, it was he who could have said "no thank you maam"

 

You both have done damage and threats are not going to work. I am not saying you should be making him milk and cookies, but.maybe you should focus on rebuilding your trust, instead of tearing things down.

 

Go for a walk with him. Focus only on rebuilding trust. No pointing fingers or threats. Try a different approach

Edited July 9, 2016 by 66Charger

[JennyS]

So we have started going to marriage counselling. I initiated it, but my H was quite willing. In our first sessions, I made it clear that I did not want the marriage to end, but that my main objective was to 'fix it properly'. The psychologist explained to my H that, even though I had indicated that I was willing to look past the reasons for his behaviour if that's what it takes for us to move forward, it is important for him to try to reach some understanding of why he had the need to engage with strangers when I was right there. I explained that I need to see some kind of effort on his part to build up the trust and repair the relationship, as all efforts so far have come from me.

 

I have since expressed this need very clearly. I am asking to spend some time alone with him, to engage in conversation, to have some fun. But I need him to initiate it, and this is where the problem seems to arise. He either can't or won't make any effort.

 

In our most recent session, he told the psychologist that he has given up trying to communicate with me, because every time he does it ends up with me "screaming and shouting" at him. He has not tried to initiate any kind of communication with me about our relationship. It has always been me who has broached the subject. I admit to becoming pretty emotional, and shouting through my tears, but I don't think it's fair to describe it as screaming and shouting.

 

I explained that I feel I have made my needs clear. When asked, my H responded that there is no reason that he has not acted on my requests. The psychologist then asked me to look at my H and tell him very clearly that I want him to ask me to go for a walk and hold my hand. I did it, but I was really upset by our marriage having got the point where I have to sit in a psychologist's rooms to be able to tell my husband of such a simple need. She then told him that this was his task for this week, and that he has to do it. He then asked why I can't ask him to go for a walk. In that moment, I realised that if I stay in this relationship, I will forever be responsible for keeping it going. I was devastated that he can't see his way clear to doing such a simple thing that obviously means so much to me.

 

After the session, I drove straight home and cried my heart out. He arrived home some time later and heard my crying. He came into the room and said that he is so sorry that he has done this to me. He wanted to talk but I was too upset, and told him that it may end up with me screaming and shouting at him. I have moved into our spare room. That was two days ago, and we have barely spoken.

[elaine567]

In our first sessions, I made it clear that I did not want the marriage to end, but that my main objective was to 'fix it properly'.

...He either can't or won't make any effort.

 

Why then would he feel the need to make any effort? You are staying anyway.

 

I don't actually think he wants to resolve anything.

 

You are correct, things are very bad when it needs a psychologist to tell him he should ask you out for a walk and to hold your hand.

His response was priceless.

He is being bloody minded here and I guess he is very angry with you for some reason or he feels that he is the victim here and you are the one that needs to do the sucking up and the initiating .

 

You say you are staying no matter what, but do you really know what HE wants deep down?

[JennyS]

@lovey34. I am usually the kind of woman who works towards fixing anything that is broken, especially a 26 year marriage that has been through so much. This time, however, I feel like I am too broken to be able to fix this. I think that is why I've been hoping that my H will do something to show me that he really wants this to work. This has really knocked me in so many ways and I feel so tired of trying to communicate with him in a way that he will understand and respond.

 

He took me out for lunch today, which was quite pleasant. But I identify with what Elaine 567 said, and am not sure how much he wants this to work. In the past, he has waited until the absolute last possible moment before starting to try to fix things between us. It's like he waits until I am emotionally right on the edge of a cliff, about to jump, and then he rushes in to stop me.

 

At this point I am so confused as to what to do. I have given this marriage so many chances, and I feel that I have tried so very hard to make it work. I'm tired but I can't seem to be able to make a decision, either to stay or to leave.