greenman77 Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 This post is just about me getting this off my chest so my apologies in advanced for the rant, length and possibly my irrationality For reference, I've been using OkCupid and I'm a 23 year old male that just moved to Europe from the US. First of all let me start by saying that I know that online dating shouldn't be taken too seriously and should be used as an alternative to get dates rather than depend solely on it. I also already know that as a guy doing online dating, the odds of success are already incredibly low. I know that of every 100 messages sent to women, at least 50 are never read because either she never logs in again, the message is filtered and never seen for what ever reason, or it is simply flat out ignored. There is nothing I can do about that and I accept that. It's the other 50 messages that are read that really frustrates the hell out of me. I pay the A-list service so I can see when a message is read or not. What frustrates me the most is when the message is read but they don't even bother viewing my profile, not even to have a quick look at my pictures. I understand that online dating is very superficial so I don't really expect them to read my profile but I would at least expect them to look at my pictures before making a decision of whether they find me attractive or not. It just really bugs me when they make that decision by simply looking at my 100x100 pixel profile picture. Don't get me wrong, I don't feel like these women have an obligation to answer back. I know that being a woman doing online dating is incredibly overwhelming. Getting hundreds of messages every day must get really annoying. Is it asking too much that if you are gonna read my message, to take 2 seconds to look at my pictures before you decided to ignore me or not? Am I being unreasonable? I don't think I am... I've been using OkCupid on and off for a few years now but it seems like it's worse than ever now. I know that most messages get ignored but I always got a healthy number of profile views after sending messages. If they see my profile but still ignore me, I'm ok with that. I just think to myself "Well she just wasn't interested I guess" and move one. As a guy doing online dating I know that you need to persevere as the odds are incredibly not in your favor but its just so tiring trying to send unique messages to every single one letting them know that you read their profile when ultimately it will most likely be ignored or never read. Anyways, I really needed to get that off my chest. I actually feel a little better! I guess I just need to try to use OkCupid as an extra to getting dates and try to pay less attention to it but having just moved to a new continent where I know absolutely no one it's not going to be easy.. If you have any advice or comments, go ahead and fire away! If you made it all the way down here then you are a trooper! And you have my thanks!
Author greenman77 Posted May 18, 2016 Author Posted May 18, 2016 Another thing that I have noticed is that in these forums and on reddit I see a lot women that say that they message a lot of guys first. Do they really? Because clearly they don't live in my area!
PegNosePete Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) Getting hundreds of messages every day must get really annoying. Is it asking too much that if you are gonna read my message, to take 2 seconds to look at my pictures before you decided to ignore me or not? 2 seconds? I think it would take considerably longer than that. And if they did just view your pictures I'm sure you'd say is it unreasonable to expect them to read what I've written, etc. Let's say reviewing a profile (including going to the message, clicking on you, waiting for it to load, scrolling down, reading, deciding on compatibility etc) takes around 30 seconds each. Then writing a "sorry, no thanks", pressing the send button and returning to the inbox takes another 10 seconds including load times. You say they get "hundreds" of messages a day, let's be optimistic and say it's only 100. 100 x 40 seconds = 4,000 seconds = 67 minutes. Plus breaks (ever tried viewing 100 profiles at high speed and replying the same to every one of them??). Do you really expect every single woman to spend 1.5 hours every day, just saying "sorry no thanks"? Yes, I think you're being unreasonable. As a guy doing online dating I know that you need to persevere as the odds are incredibly not in your favor Why do you say that? The odds are only not in your favour if you have a bad or generic profile and bad photos. If you have good photos and a good profile then it's a lot better. The majority of profiles are so terrible, it's incredibly easy to get in the top 10% or even 1% of profiles! Another thing that I have noticed is that in these forums and on reddit I see a lot women that say that they message a lot of guys first. Do they really? Because clearly they don't live in my area! Yes, often women on forums do say that and as you've noticed, it's a lot less common in the "real world". My only explanation is that the kind of women who frequent online forums are by definition, more comfortable writing online, more confident, and therefore more likely to send initial messages. The women who post to forums are not representative of the OLD community. Edited May 18, 2016 by PegNosePete 1
deadparrot Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I mean, I messaged my now-boyfriend first, so yes, it happens. Also, you say that you just want women to take a look at your pictures. Do you really just want them to reply to you based on a snap judgment of whether they're physically attracted to you or not, without reading anything further into your profile? May I ask what you're writing in your introductory messages? Are you taking the time to read her profile and comment/ask about something in it? When I was OLD, I straight-up did not answer messages that: 1) Commented on my attractiveness. Messaging me is indication enough that you find me attractive. Making it the central focus of your message makes me think that you are just looking for sex and/or don't have anything more interesting to say. 2) Were clearly "form letters" copied and pasted to hundreds of different girls. Once you get a few dozen of them, you start being able to spot them from a mile away. 3) Were one-line generic "hey sup" messages. 4) Didn't acknowledge me or something I had written in my profile in any way. Obviously, if a guy wants to connect to something I mentioned, that's more than fine, but just talking about himself at the expense of any inquiry about me or the multiple paragraphs of text about me he had to work with...not a good sign.
Author greenman77 Posted May 18, 2016 Author Posted May 18, 2016 @PegNosePete thanks for the reply I don't think people are obligated to respond when I send them a message. I honestly don't care if they do or don't. And I don't expect them to read my profile either. I know that online dating is extremely shallow and it's all about the pictures and the starting message. What bothers me is when I send a message to someone and that person decides to ignore me without even looking at my pictures first. Let's be honest, reading a message and taking a quick peek at the sender's pictures takes 15-20 seconds tops. Unless I have the bad luck of sending messages only to women that have decided to hide their visits to other profiles
Cinnamonstix Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Where are you getting your statistics from? Maybe it depends where you live, but I have never known any women to get hundreds of messages a day. Yes, even attractive ones. I also haven't heard from any men I've known using OLD to complain that they couldn't get a reply or a date. And these your average guys. They do have a personality though. Any time someone doesn't click on your profile after you've sent a message is because they didn't like what they saw in your little thumbnail. Unless your message was THAT BAD, a girl will likely check out your profile if she thinks you look cute, possibly to see if you can redeem yourself with the profile content/rest of photos. 1
Author greenman77 Posted May 18, 2016 Author Posted May 18, 2016 I mean, I messaged my now-boyfriend first, so yes, it happens. Also, you say that you just want women to take a look at your pictures. Do you really just want them to reply to you based on a snap judgment of whether they're physically attracted to you or not, without reading anything further into your profile? May I ask what you're writing in your introductory messages? Are you taking the time to read her profile and comment/ask about something in it? When I was OLD, I straight-up did not answer messages that: 1) Commented on my attractiveness. Messaging me is indication enough that you find me attractive. Making it the central focus of your message makes me think that you are just looking for sex and/or don't have anything more interesting to say. 2) Were clearly "form letters" copied and pasted to hundreds of different girls. Once you get a few dozen of them, you start being able to spot them from a mile away. 3) Were one-line generic "hey sup" messages. 4) Didn't acknowledge me or something I had written in my profile in any way. Obviously, if a guy wants to connect to something I mentioned, that's more than fine, but just talking about himself at the expense of any inquiry about me or the multiple paragraphs of text about me he had to work with...not a good sign. Of course I don't want them to reply to me simpy based on whether they are physically attracted to me or not. I'm just saying that I would like for them to at least take a quick look at my pictures/profile before deciding to ignore me. Maybe what I'm trying to say isn't coming out right. English is not my main language so my apologies. And when it comes to messages: 1) Never 2) Very rarely and I expect no results from those 3) Sometimes but I only send these to people who have nothing written in the profile and again, I don't expect anything from them so I don't really count them either. All other messages I send do mention something about their profile (to prove I read it) and while also asking a question about it. I never send messages about sex either just fyi.
BikerAccnt Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Are you also aware that on OKCupid, POF, and other "free" sites. There are upgraded options that allow you to view users profiles without them knowing about it. It's quite possible they are viewing your profile, and just passing you by.
deadparrot Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I guess where I'm confused is that you claim that if they just took 2 seconds to look at your photos, you'd be fine with no reply. I don't know, that just seems like such an arbitrary line to draw. Dismissing you out of hand based on your message is not OK, but dismissing you after they read your message and take a quick glance at your photo is fine. If anything, I'd rather they just read the message and it not resonate with them strongly enough to reply. If they changed their mind and replied based solely on my photo, I'd probably be a little bummed that they were doing so just because they found me attractive than because what I said sparked some interest.
despgirl Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 @PegNosePete thanks for the reply I don't think people are obligated to respond when I send them a message. I honestly don't care if they do or don't. And I don't expect them to read my profile either. I know that online dating is extremely shallow and it's all about the pictures and the starting message. What bothers me is when I send a message to someone and that person decides to ignore me without even looking at my pictures first. Let's be honest, reading a message and taking a quick peek at the sender's pictures takes 15-20 seconds tops. Unless I have the bad luck of sending messages only to women that have decided to hide their visits to other profiles What do you normally write to these women? I personally do not have time to reply to every single "Hello how was your day" message that i used to get when I was on OLD. I received lots and lots of messages from men and only replied to those who had something substantial/original/funny to say. The fact is that OLD is very competitive for men, thus there is a need to stand out from the crowd, looks-wise but also when it comes to first impression. Harsh, but true... 1
Toodaloo Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 @PegNosePete thanks for the reply I don't think people are obligated to respond when I send them a message. I honestly don't care if they do or don't. And I don't expect them to read my profile either. I know that online dating is extremely shallow and it's all about the pictures and the starting message. What bothers me is when I send a message to someone and that person decides to ignore me without even looking at my pictures first. Let's be honest, reading a message and taking a quick peek at the sender's pictures takes 15-20 seconds tops. Unless I have the bad luck of sending messages only to women that have decided to hide their visits to other profiles Reasons why I would not respond when I am on OLD. 1. Message was awful 2. Pic was awful 3. Just didn't fancy them to look at 4. After reading their profile found something I find highly unattractive 5. Already seeing someone but early days so still logged on... 6. None of the above but having a really bad day and not wanting to meet or speak to someone new right now. I may have just had a flurry of rude messages or just had a particularly nasty one from some one I had been getting on with... All takes its toll and can affect how you feel about talking to new people. I would say you need to change your main pic. If they are not even looking at your profile, if you are writing messages worthy of a second look (hey babz does not count as a good message) then change up your front pic. But in all seriousness at your age for goodness sake just go out and be sociable...
Mrin Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Not exactly what you are looking for but here are a few thoughts: 1. Your Message: a female poster above listed some good rules to follow. I'll give you a few other guidelines. The first is to keep it short. 3 - 4 sentences maximum. The second is to comment on something specifically out of their profile or photos. I'll give you a good example. I once sent a note to a woman who had a photo of her clearly standing in some ruins somewhere. Based of the stone blocks used I hazarded a guess as to the civilization of the ruins. She responded and we had several dates. She said the thing that made her stop, look at my profile and reply was the fact that I had some interest in archeology - something she greatly enjoyed - and wanted to learn more about me as she found my interest to be unique. 2. Your profile: It is all about the pics. Pics don't get you a response per se. But pics can deal you out. Have a good profile pic. If she looks at your profile pic and isn't attracted, there isn't anything she will do. As you well know, you don't have to look at a person's profile to see their initial pic. OKCupid does something where you can "focus group" your pics. I did that and found that I a) was using the wrong pic as my main profile pic and b) had one pic that was very unpopular. I made those changes and not only did my response rate go way up, but the number of women contacting me first went way up. 3. Compulsion to respond: The other thing I would suggest is rethinking your messages and also your profile to give a sense of unique-ness. Something that makes her think, "I don't want to let this stone go unturned." Here, let me flip the tables on you. You troll through OKC and you probably find scores of women that you would go out on a date. They're "great gals". They look good. Their profile is good. Right? Now imagine they all started contacting you - chick overload. Which one are you going to respond to? So from her perspective, being a "great guy" isn't enough for her to feel compelled to give you a chance. You have to have something that makes you a little more interesting than just being a "great guy". Think on it. Mrin
PegNosePete Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I know that online dating is extremely shallow and it's all about the pictures and the starting message. On the contrary. That is totally wrong. It's a commonly-held fallacy of people who have failed to use OLD effectively. They will blame the system, blame the other users, blame the site admin or the government or the martians, blame everyone but themselves. Have you ever though that maybe if your profile and pics were great, then you would get responses and have success? No, of course you haven't. You prefer to blame others or "the system" for your lack of success.
LookAtThisPOst Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 On the contrary. That is totally wrong. It's a commonly-held fallacy of people who have failed to use OLD effectively. They will blame the system, blame the other users, blame the site admin or the government or the martians, blame everyone but themselves. Have you ever though that maybe if your profile and pics were great, then you would get responses and have success? No, of course you haven't. You prefer to blame others or "the system" for your lack of success. Let's say for example, a man hasn't gotten a reply on a dating site in a year, did nothing to change or tweak his profile during that year, then finally...he gets a response, a date and further dates with that same woman. Does that one count as a success? Or, does he have to have a line of dates throughout the course of that year for it to be a success?
BikerAccnt Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I think it's also about whom you chose to message. Generally, I have pretty good luck on OLD, now it may be my age group, but.. I'll usually get a response to 1 out of 5 messages I send if not more. I think it's because I generally only write to people that I truly find interesting and that I think would find me interesting. I don't write to the most "attractive" woman, unless she rides, or has some other factor. Just because someone likes one or two things I do, or is very attractive to me, doesn't make her a match. There needs to be a hook that I can attach my line too. There are a lot of women I could write to, but that I don't. There are some that write me, but I don't respond too. Mainly because they aren't a good match, or are outside of the distance I desire for dating. The system is what it is...how cliche'. But you can work it to your advantage with a little thought, and a less scattershot approach. 1
iconici Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I am 52. I have done Match, OKcupid, Plentyofffish. They certainly SEEM like a good idea, but they are a horrible drain of emotions and time. In my case, I am out of the "search range" for the majority - they will never see me (or respond if I attempt). The selection for "my age range" is pretty low - take out the unacceptable and those who think they should have the life they had with ex-husband back when they were 30 and the cougars and it doesn't leave much. Online dating is pretty much about a quick judgement based on age and a picture. No one has time to read and consider all the long, thoughtful profiles. And don't forget the women out there who are just looking for affirmation. Conclusion: seems like a good idea, definitely try it, don't put too much faith in it.
LookAtThisPOst Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 And don't forget the women out there who are just looking for affirmation. I know...I've actually know women in real life that's tried OK cupid and POF, and weren't really crazy about the idea to begin with. They muscled up a couple of dates, but their head wasn't in the game and were off the sites pretty quickly. Some admitted to having used it as an affirmation. Man, I took a break from online dating for a while, came back, and saw the same faces of the women that ignored me way back when. lol. Picky much?
Mrin Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Man, I took a break from online dating for a while, came back, and saw the same faces of the women that ignored me way back when. lol. Picky much? I saw that too when I took about a 5 month break. I think some of them are just scams. Or fake profiles. Or zombie profiles. That being said - I do know of a few women who have been active on OLD for years.
LookAtThisPOst Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I saw that too when I took about a 5 month break. I think some of them are just scams. Or fake profiles. Or zombie profiles. That being said - I do know of a few women who have been active on OLD for years. Yeah, I recall a woman on my FB friends list that I had seen on a local dating site express that "Where are all the good men in this city? I'm actually thinking of moving!" No joke. lol
BikerAccnt Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I am 52. I have done Match, OKcupid, Plentyofffish. They certainly SEEM like a good idea, but they are a horrible drain of emotions and time. In my case, I am out of the "search range" for the majority - they will never see me (or respond if I attempt). The selection for "my age range" is pretty low - take out the unacceptable and those who think they should have the life they had with ex-husband back when they were 30 and the cougars and it doesn't leave much. Online dating is pretty much about a quick judgement based on age and a picture. No one has time to read and consider all the long, thoughtful profiles. And don't forget the women out there who are just looking for affirmation. Conclusion: seems like a good idea, definitely try it, don't put too much faith in it. My experience has been different. I am 55 and have had no issues on POF, or match back when I used it. I find plenty of women worth dating/looking at. And who are looking for men our age. If you are looking for women around our age, you'll d ok. If you're looking at much younger women, then yeah, we are old men to them. I stick with my age range 50 - 60 and I do pretty well. At least in initial conversations. Meetups are 50/50 at best. 1
BikerAccnt Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I don't really see a problem with people who have been active on OLD for years. They just haven't found the right one. I mean, we are all active in LIFE for years right? People just don't know about it. 2
katiegrl Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) What bothers me is when I send a message to someone and that person decides to ignore me without even looking at my pictures first. This may have been mentioned but obviously whatever you're writing in your message isn't inviting or intriguing enough for them to want to look at your pics. Which actually proves that women care less what a man looks like and more on how much thought he puts into writing each woman and engages her. Read her profile. Ask her questions specific to her profile. Engage her! Edited May 18, 2016 by katiegrl 1
LookAtThisPOst Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Read her profile. Ask her questions specific to her profile. Engage her! Been there, done that and you can still be ignored.
katiegrl Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Been there, done that....still ignored. Can you give an example of what you write, as your opening message? I mean sorry it just seems like a no brainer if they're not even bothering to click on your photo, something about your initial message is turning them off. I recall when I did OLD many years ago.... I found so many opening messages mundane and just, well, blah. So contrived, no thought, no creativity put into it at all. I received like 500 messages that first week (on Match.com).... and if an initial message did grab me.... it was next. I realize that doesn't sound fair, but that's how it was for me, and I think for many women, at least in the beginning.
Emilia Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Another thing that I have noticed is that in these forums and on reddit I see a lot women that say that they message a lot of guys first. Do they really? Because clearly they don't live in my area! I don't know how old the girls are you are messaging but from what I've read, early 20s is a very popular age group when it comes to women, not so much for men.
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