dreamingoftigers Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I was not allowed to do this as a Mormon. I was required to watch only wholesome entertainment that would keep me "pure and unspotted from the world." Um, no, this didn't happen for me. We followed the typical Mormon standards in entertainment: anything with swearing, sex, crude jokes, or excessive violence was not allowed. Most other things were OK, except for a few shows my mom didn't like. My parents never talked to us about entertainment. The only sex talks I got from my parents were a "birds and the bees" talk from my mom and a very awkward chastity talk from my dad. See, I've been in the dating scene for about 15 years, and I've spent less than a year of that in relationships. So I think I'm well past the point of "finding myself outside of a relationship." I've done my time in that prison that is year after year of aloneness, making friends, then watching them get married, then making new friends, then watching them get married, then making new friends, then watching them get married. At some point in an adult man's life, it seems immature to continue chasing skirts around and spending time looking for cheap thrills. I wouldn't say that I've exactly done that, but I've been living the life of the eternal college student, and at some point it seems that the excitement of the prolonged adolescence should give way to a life of more commitment and substance. Plus, I feel like I've hit a wall of personal development because there's really only so far a person can grow if they're single. At some point, it seems that life would require a relationship, to heal the wounds of the past and to grow beyond the eternal adolescence that is being a single man. You keep mentioning "Mormon Standards" but a lot of the things you've posted sound even more claustrophobic than that. And the way you've described the church as almost a bunch of oppressed people caught in miserable relationships.....I have got to say, I can't relate. The only other Member / Former Member I heard talk like this was one woman who frankly, was pretty whacky and had emotionally Incestuous relationship ships with her sons. Two of whom were my roommates pre-church involvement. It was really creepy. A large part of why I joined is because of the openness I experienced. Including the encouragement to seek out any other religions and compare them. Plus the dedication to family etc. It took me almost two years to even start building a testimony. I'm not going to preach at you about it or give you the "i know this church is true because........." I'll be honest, I struggle still. It isn't set in for me when I don't participate. I fall away quickly etc. I just know there's a range of agency within the home as well, and it sounds more like you parents had some pretty conflict-avoidant issues. It sounds as if you didn't believe you could even talk to anyone at the church either. My experience was the virtual opposite. When my husband and I had deep issues, Twp bishops over the course of time let me very clearly know that they would support me divorcing but would not influence my choice in that matter either way. They both have me tremendous support through all of those issues. I think we were all surprised my marriage made it to the ten year mark. My husband is also a (inactive) member. I also wonder if part of it is regional. I have found that towns with one Ward in them tend to get, ahem, a little odd in practice. I can greatly empathize with your pain though. I was part of another religion that I found to be untrue. The pain of going through that separation was wrenching. It was like finding out everyone around me was dying. I lost my "family." It took awhile to recover. I guess that's part of why I can be a part of the church without 110% certainty. Because I've lost before. It's much the same with relationships as you get older. At first the love etc seems unending, so crystal clear, impossible to defeat. Then it turns out you are a flawed human with a flawed human and nothing is 100% certain. There's always a pain attached to the joy. It's like an undercurrent attached to just about everything in life. Even as I've had my children I can say that they are a great joy, but there is this undercurrent of grief as they grow. My daughter is turning 7 this year. That means there's a good chance she's already one third done with the time we have raising her at home. And each stage is new and awesome BUT she will never be a cute little two year old again. My son will never be this tiny newborn again. We only get to go this way once. Just like my husband and I will not be newlyweds with each other again. But we get a tenth anniversary. Everything is a trade-off. The movies don't portray this. I agree with you there. I remember my first breakup was devastating to me. A large part of it was that no one or nothing warned me how painful a breakup could be. I had no idea when I got dumped. Movies and soap operas etc. Don't lead on to these things. They makes relationships seem easy and sweet. They make them seem thrilling and friendly. Ending them is easy as pie, right? No. Not at all. I can only suggest reading more neutral sources about relationships (Loveshack tends to be more "when relationships go BAD.") And for a relationships its often easier to find someone whose 'baggage' matches yours. Like perhaps another former member. Because they 'get it.' Just a suggestion. 2
Imported Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Brings to mind something I read by Robert A. Heinlein from Glory Road ...my most favorite story ever. “What did I want? I wanted a Roc's egg. I wanted a harem loaded with lovely odalisques less than the dust beneath my chariot wheels, the rust that never stained my sword. I wanted raw red gold in nuggets the size of your fist, and feed that lousy claim jumper to the huskies! I wanted to get up feeling brisk and go out and break some lances, then pick a likely wench for my droit du seigneur - I wanted to stand up to the Baron and dare him to touch my wench! I wanted to hear the purple water chuckling against the skin of the Nancy Lee in the cool of the morning watch and not another sound, nor any movement save the slow tilting of the wings of the albatross that had been pacing us the last thousand miles. I wanted the hurtling moons of Barsoom. I wanted Storisende and Poictesme, and Holmes shaking me awake to tell me, "The game's afoot!" I wanted to float down the Mississippi on a raft and elude a mob in company with the Duke of Bilgewater and Lost Dauphin. I wanted Prester John, and Excalibur held by a moon-white arm out of a silent lake. I wanted to sail with Ulysses and with Tros of Samothrace and to eat the lotus in a land that seemed always afternoon. I wanted the feeling of romance and the sense of wonder I had known as a kid. I wanted the world to be the way they had promised me it was going to be, instead of the tawdry, lousy, fouled-up mess it is. I had had one chance - for ten minutes yesterday afternoon. Helen of Troy, whatever your true name may be - and I had known it and I had let it slip away. Maybe one chance is all you ever get.” ― Robert A. Heinlein, Glory Road 1
scorpiogirl Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I joined the church in 2002. In the church it isn't unrealistic to have your marriage last a lifetime. Only 13% of marriage made up of both LDS people DO divorce. However I notice that kids often raised in the church are raised in what I call "the bubble." My ex grew up in "the bubble" for instance. For a lot of Mormons, that works okay because they respect their relationships, and marry other people who were raised to respect relationships. But for those unlucky kids who were raised in the bubble, that manage to marry someone that does NOT share the bubble philosophy, ouch! My husband was raised in the "Jehovah's Witness bubble" and that was pretty destructive to him. He didn't want to be a witness and was completely naive to the world when he went into at 15. He ended up homeless on the streets of Toronto,and the got into about every drug / alcohol / bad situation you can imagine. He ended up having MAJOR trust issues and just about imploded our marriage years later. So honestly, if Disney and chick flick movies were the cause of a poor relationship template for you, I would strongly saybthat they should NOT have been presented that way. My mother, alothough I would say she's fairly naive herself would watch shows with me and she would TALK to me about the content in them. Turns out, that's pretty much bang-on parenting. It isn't so much "what the world presents to us" that influenced us. It tends to be "How do our parents role-model how to react to it." If I watch, say, The Affair with a teenage daughter (not really appropriate, but let's ride with the example). And throughout the show I say nothing, it looks like acceptance of the behaviour and that "hey this is how relationships start off. He looks at her, she looks at him, they want to bang, they screw over both their spouses and each other, bravo!" But if I say, "oh jeez. That's pretty awful. Look at the heartbreak his wife is going through. Look at how much this messes up the husband's family. What an awful betrayal and disrespect. I hope you never treat someone or allow anyone to treat you that way." It makes a difference. You see, the world is going to display all kinds of emotional diaharrea to kids. Kids entertainment can even be pretty awful. It's up to us as parents to really give our kids the mental template to work with. It's really important to make that distinction young that entertainment can influence you, it's your job to behave respectfully, it's your job to guard you mind and heart and that "this stuff isn't realistic." My grandmother did the same with me. We used to watch tv together and a cringeworthy love scene would come on. Shows were still tame so two people who appeared to be naked under a sheet and implied something more than kissing was going on, was enough to make me want to run out of the room. One day she said to me, " so you know when you see two people in bed on TV, and they're naked? Do you ever see your grandpa and I with just sheets around us when we're sleeping" I was so embarrassed, I very quickly said no. I always see them in pyjamas or a robe And she said I should remember that, and real life wasn't always as you see on tv and in movies. However, I don't really see that, as an adult, somebody wouldn't make this connection on their own. And when life eventually does hand you lemons, it sucks for a while but you don't then continue to believe in fairytales and it's unfair to blame something that's meant to be escape, for your inadequacies in understanding real life. Same thing with church. Earlier OP you mentioned it was the men in the suits in church who were responsible for what you believed. I'll have to differ on that too. You're responsible for how you process that information. You have to take responsibility some time. It's a little ridiculous to blame a means of escape for your inability to navigate the world and its disappointments. 3
TheArtist Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 What a woman. If they hadn't put the lyrics on there I wouldn't have ruined that.
PrettyEmily77 Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 What a woman. Yeah, she's ok... SO's dream woman 1
Emilia Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I was not allowed to do this as a Mormon. I was required to watch only wholesome entertainment that would keep me "pure and unspotted from the world." Um, no, this didn't happen for me. We followed the typical Mormon standards in entertainment: anything with swearing, sex, crude jokes, or excessive violence was not allowed. Most other things were OK, except for a few shows my mom didn't like. My parents never talked to us about entertainment. The only sex talks I got from my parents were a "birds and the bees" talk from my mom and a very awkward chastity talk from my dad. See, I've been in the dating scene for quite awhile, and I've spent less than a year of that in relationships. So I think I'm well past the point of "finding myself outside of a relationship." I've done my time in that prison of aloneness, making friends, then watching them get married, then making new friends, then watching them get married, then making new friends, then watching them get married. At some point in an adult man's life, it seems immature to continue chasing skirts around and spending time looking for cheap thrills. I wouldn't say that I've exactly done that, but I've been living the life of the eternal college student, and at some point it seems that the excitement of the prolonged adolescence should give way to a life of more commitment and substance. Plus, I feel like I've hit a wall of personal development because there's really only so far a person can grow if they're single. At some point, it seems that life would require a relationship, to heal the wounds of the past and to grow beyond the eternal adolescence that is being a single man. Ok, I think I see where the disconnect is on neediness. I don't think that unrealistic expectations are really neediness, unless you're using neediness as an umbrella term to describe most any dysfunctional relationship behavior. Back in the late 80s and 90s it was fashionable to talk about codependence as the root of all relationship problems. So I guess if you had relationship problems in 1992, people would say that it's because you're codependent, and if you have relationship problems in 2016, people would say that it's because you're too needy. And on masculinity, I have yet to really see a coherent model for masculinity, or how to develop it. I agree that using Disney movies as models for life isn't exactly masculine, but I haven't really heard a better model at this point. It seems to me that you are from the PUA school of thought, where neediness the "problem" and masculinity is the "answer." Sounds like you need to blame your parents, a lot of people have this problem. Being brought up in a mollycoddled unrealistic world only to find that everyone else had got a different memo. In the UK it tends to be people who had been sent to single-sex schools, especially in secondary education. They struggle as adults, often. Neediness and codependence are the same thing: the desire to control in a passive way because of the inability to value yourself and seek people out that are also confident and value themselves. Needy/codependents tend to seek out alcoholics, etc who they believe 'need help'. Then it goes into a push-pull cycle and goes belly-up. 1
Toodaloo Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 This is a bad thing. My brother's wife left him for a woman after less than three years of marriage. My parents were visibly dissastified with their marriage for most of my life, with the threat of divorce always hanging in the air. My mom told me that she wished she'd never gotten married and never had kids. My paternal grandparents fought in front of us, and my grandma was a narcisstic alcoholic. I never saw my maternal grandparents fight because they almost never spoke to each other. If this is what relationships are all about, I'll take the Disney fairy tale, please and thank you. This is what happens when people end up in bad matches. My parents went against everyone (including their families) and have been happily married (with a few bumps) for 45 years or more. My Grand parents on my mothers side again happily married with a few bumps for what... 70 years nearly? My grandparents on my fathers side... well two brothers were dating two sisters and they decided to swop as it wasn't working out... Again when they were with people they had marriages that lasted for decades literally until death did them part... Seems to me you have been brought up in an environment that just didn't deal with problems and instead hid them in the hope they would go away. Disney doesn't hide the problems... So again you can't blame Disney for all this... You have been hidden from anything perceived as "nasty" and as a result have no idea of what it is about or how to deal with it. We argue in my family. We do not pack our punches at all. But we are happy and we work together. We are close and accept each other for who we are. We forgive mistakes and we move on from that. Unlike your family we do not let any feelings or emotions fester. Its just out and dealt with. Neediness, in its worst form, is when you get yourself into a real tither if you can not have that particular person there or with you. It is not being upset because something bad has happened, its being overly reliant on a person for your emotional stability. Best way to combat this is to have a variety of friends that you can turn to for support and advice and that you do different activities with. Neediness in a positive form is when you recognize that you need a bit of help or support and go and find that with out draining your friends or partner. Its taking action to sort out the issues that arise in life and being aware that you can't do everything or cope with everything by yourself. Its knowing when you are expecting too much and being able to back down from that. Wave rider you have not done your time in that "aloneness". Not if you think that being alone is a prison... It took me a good year of not dating at all and then a good 6 months of finding my feet to get my head round it all and I do not have any of the emotional background baggage and false hopes that you have... When being on your own feels liberating and you feel empowered that you can deal with things and cope with things on your own with out a romantic partner... that is when its time to date... There is a difference between needing a romantic partner and wanting one... 3
wmacbride Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I argue that Disney movies are cultural myths that serve a similar purpose to religious beliefs, and that it isn't any more ridiculous for a person raised on Disney movies to believe the underlying storyline messages than it is for a person raised in a devout Christian home to be a devout Christian. Whether the beliefs themselves are true does't matter, because psychologists don't (at least officially) consider religious beliefs, no matter how kooky, to be delusional if those beliefs prevail in the culture the person lives in. And perhaps what is in order here is a "crisis of faith" about Disney movies, the same way I had a crisis of faith about Mormonism. Many Disney stories are corruptions of existing fairy tales or stories written by other people, and many of the originals are nowhere near as "sanitized" as disney made them. Darn it, there's that n-word again. I must really have a blind spot here, because I'm just not getting this whole concept of neediness. Maybe you can explain how I'm being needy. I'm not saying that I believed that the Disney stories were literally true. I'm saying that I believed - and claim that most people do believe - that the underlying messages are true. Messages like "love conquers all" and "true love is out there waiting for you" and "they lived happily ever after." I didn't believe that Ariel really kissed Prince Eric, but I did believe - and argue that many people do believe - that a single kiss can transform a person's world. I didn't believe that the Aladdin story really happened, but I did believe I was a "diamond in the rough." I believe that most people, on some level, identify with these messages. And of course, every bride and groom expect to live happily ever after. Quite frankly, I can't stand disney movies, except maybe for the original Fantasia), but if parents want to let their kids watch them, I don;t see a problem in and of itself. The problem occurs when parents don't talk with their young children about what they have watched. When they do, it can be lead to some positive growth for the kids. 1
xxoo Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I was not allowed to do this as a Mormon. I was required to watch only wholesome entertainment that would keep me "pure and unspotted from the world." My mother was a strict Christian Evangelist. I wasn't allowed to read/watch stuff like that either, but I did. Because I was a teenager. I went to the library and sat myself down and read all the books I was forbidden to read. I hid albums I was forbidden to have and listen to. I craved more and more "forbidden fruit" simply because I wasn't supposed to have it. I pushed limits and kept my secrets. You didn't? Why not? 2
Justanaverageguy Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) The more and more I read this - the more it seems to be turning into a complain fest about who is to blame for your problems and why the world isn't fair. So far you have your parents, religion, Hollywood on the hook for the cause of everything but there has been very little focus or attention on yourself or your own responsibilities into shaping who you are. Its all about why its someone else's fault that life isn't what you dreamed it would be. My brother's wife left him for a woman after less than three years of marriage. My parents were visibly dissastified with their marriage for most of my life, with the threat of divorce always hanging in the air. My mom told me that she wished she'd never gotten married and never had kids. My paternal grandparents fought in front of us, and my grandma was a narcisstic alcoholic. I never saw my maternal grandparents fight because they almost never spoke to each other. If this is what relationships are all about, I'll take the Disney fairy tale, please and thank you. There is a story I like which can be adapted to the situation I'm going to apply it here. 2 twin brothers were interviewed in middle age about their relationships, family life and children. The first one had a string of failed dysfunctional marriages. Children to multiple women who he saw rarely and had rarely experienced happiness in long term relationships or in family life. When asked why - he stated that his parents had a disfunctional marriage and were divorced when he was young and fought constantly. As a result he rarely saw his father. He blamed his own relationship failures on external factors and never having a good role model to base his own relationships on. The second twin brother was then interviewed and he advised he had a strong steady marriage and 3 children which he had a great relationship with and loved dearly. The interviewer asked him how it was possible when he knew how terrible his own family life had been as a child and the circumstances of his brother. He advised that the family issues he experienced as a child and the poor relationship he had with his own father was the driving force behind his successful marriage and relationship with his children. He had vowed never to let his own children experience that and made it a priority to ensure his relationship with his wife and children was always given his full attention and priority. Same situation - result is different based on the attitude applied. One blamed parents and other external factors - the other took responsibility and used his negative experiences as a learning tool and motivation not to make the same mistakes. Edited May 18, 2016 by Justanaverageguy 6
NTV Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Quite frankly, I can't stand disney movies, except maybe for the original Fantasia) I actually work at Disney and we just got a memo... I really shouldn't be telling you this....but....well... I'll give you the cliff notes and you can read the rest when you get it in the mail.... Disney demands fanatical devotion from anyone viewing any of their movies, and you're failure to do so is cause for... yadda yadda yadda.... uh... due consideration of inherent anti-Disney injustices.... yadda yadda yadda.... oh! here's the good part: You're now banned from seeing any future Star Wars movies. I'm truly sorry for your loss. I don't know how devastating this news must be for you, but I truly hope you don't blame the messenger here. Good luck! 3
todreaminblue Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) I was not allowed to do this as a Mormon. I was required to watch only wholesome entertainment that would keep me "pure and unspotted from the world." waverider do you know the guy who wrote maze runner is mormon...that there are momon horror writers...i.i love horror novels and science fiction...and i am mormon.....i dont think novels or movies need profanity or sex to be good novels and movies....and disney movies are watched by many adults...not just mormons...go to the cinemas on a disney new release and you will see excited parents lining up for popcorn and choc tops along with their kids..like when dory comes out yep taking my teens to see dory..(i know its not disney but similar) they aint all mormon cinema goers either.....disney is ageless..factionless.....(feelin divergent)...it crosses generations and has been around for generations...because...disney movies make ya feeel good like they always have made people and children alike ...feel good......wholesome does not mean boring.............deb Edited May 18, 2016 by todreaminblue
Got it Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 OP - basically what everyone is telling you is that you aren't unique in getting a sh&t sandwich on healthy relationship examples. But it is what you decide to do with the information and your action or if you will passively sit back and just blame everyone else. 2
wmacbride Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 I actually work at Disney and we just got a memo... I really shouldn't be telling you this....but....well... I'll give you the cliff notes and you can read the rest when you get it in the mail.... Disney demands fanatical devotion from anyone viewing any of their movies, and you're failure to do so is cause for... yadda yadda yadda.... uh... due consideration of inherent anti-Disney injustices.... yadda yadda yadda.... oh! here's the good part: You're now banned from seeing any future Star Wars movies. I'm truly sorry for your loss. I don't know how devastating this news must be for you, but I truly hope you don't blame the messenger here. Good luck! Damn, damn, DAMN! How will my life go on? Between no more Star Wars and " In Der Furher's Face" disney has traumatized me yet again... 1
NTV Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 waverider do you know the guy who wrote maze runner is mormon...that there are momon horror writers...i.i love horror novels and science fiction...and i am mormon.....i dont think novels or movies need profanity or sex to be good novels and movies....and disney movies are watched by many adults...not just mormons...go to the cinemas on a disney new release and you will see excited parents lining up for popcorn and choc tops along with their kids..like when dory comes out yep taking my teens to see dory..(i know its not disney but similar) they aint all mormon cinema goers either.....disney is ageless..factionless.....(feelin divergent)...it crosses generations and has been around for generations...because...disney movies make ya feeel good like they always have made people and children alike ...feel good......wholesome does not mean boring.............deb did you just imply that maze runner was a good movie?
Author Wave Rider Posted May 18, 2016 Author Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) My mother was a strict Christian Evangelist. I wasn't allowed to read/watch stuff like that either, but I did. Because I was a teenager. I went to the library and sat myself down and read all the books I was forbidden to read. I hid albums I was forbidden to have and listen to. I craved more and more "forbidden fruit" simply because I wasn't supposed to have it. I pushed limits and kept my secrets. You didn't? Why not? In the Mormon version of the Garden of Eden story, Satan first approaches Adam with the forbidden fruit. Adam firmly refuses to eat it, saying that he intends to obey all of God's commandments. Satan then approaches Eve, and Eve recognizes that there will be no personal growth without the knowledge of good and evil, so Eve eats the fruit. She then goes to Adam and says the same thing to him, with the added information that she will be cast out of the Garden of Eden for eating the fruit, so if he doesn't want to be alone, he'd better eat the fruit. So he eats it, saying, "I will partake, that man may be." The contradiction in the story - one that I could never resolve - is that God told Adam and Even not to eat the fruit even though he wanted them to. From the very beginning of the grand master plan, God had intended for Adam and Eve to eat the fruit, but he still told them not to eat it. It seems that being a teenager is the same thing. Your parents tell you not to do a bunch of stuff, and to grow, a teenager actually does need to disobey their parents and do exactly the things their parents and society tells them not to. It is the act of rebellion that is the important personal growth stage. I never did this. I wanted to be good, and I wanted to do what was right. Why was I supposed to do the opposite of what I was told to do? That is confusing. So no, I didn't really have that typical teenage rebellious stage. I was good kid, and apparently my life is worse for it. In some ways, I've caught up on some of it. My favorite show is South Park, and I cuss more often than many of my fellow physics students and tell more sexual jokes and make more innuendos. But I'm still not exactly what you might call "edgy" or "dangerous." Edited May 18, 2016 by Wave Rider
xxoo Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 It seems that being a teenager is the same thing. Your parents tell you not to do a bunch of stuff, and to grow, a teenager actually does need to disobey their parents and do exactly the things their parents and society tells them not to. It is the act of rebellion that is the important personal growth stage. I never did this. I wanted to be good, and I wanted to do what was right. Why was I supposed to do the opposite of what I was told to do? That is confusing. So no, I didn't really have that typical teenage rebellious stage. I was good kid, and apparently my life is worse for it. I agree with your assessment here. Teenage years are about separating from parents and moving toward independence, and that involves some necessary disobedience--literally showing that one can stand alone and is not dependent on parents to make decisions. For you, not rebelling may be in line with your desire for validation, which has come up in your fear of being single and neediness with women. Work on the need for validation.
Author Wave Rider Posted May 18, 2016 Author Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) I agree with your assessment here. Teenage years are about separating from parents and moving toward independence, and that involves some necessary disobedience--literally showing that one can stand alone and is not dependent on parents to make decisions. Well...but the teenager isn't really independent. The teen is still quite dependent on the parents. The teenager may think that they don't need their parents, but in fact, the parents are usually still paying all the bills for the teen, including housing, food, and for wealthier parents, there is a savings fund for college. The teen's supposed independence is really an illusion, and if the teen were just turned out on the streets, that would be a bad situation indeed. And besides, if this teenage rebellion is such a necessary step of development, why do parents usually tighten the screws and demand more compliance from their teenagers? Is that all part of the game too? Is this the part of the game where "yes" means "no" and "stop" means "go" and "absolutely not" means "please go ahead"? And even if I didn't properly rebel as a teenager, what can I do about it now? I can't really go around doing drugs and getting in fistfights because I'll end up in jail and in court. Certain rebellious activities are tolerated for teenagers, but not for adults. Edited May 18, 2016 by Wave Rider
xxoo Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 Well...but the teenager isn't really independent. The teen is still quite dependent on the parents. The teenager may think that they don't need their parents, but in fact, the parents are usually still paying all the bills for the teen, including housing, food, and for wealthier parents, there is a savings fund for college. The teen's supposed independence is really an illusion, and if the teen were just turned out on the streets, that would be a bad situation indeed. And besides, if this teenage rebellion is such a necessary step of development, why do parents usually tighten the screws and demand more compliance from their teenagers? Is that all part of the game too? Is this the part of the game where "yes" means "no" and "stop" means "go" and "absolutely not" means "please go ahead"? And even if I didn't properly rebel as a teenager, what can I do about it now? I can't really go around doing drugs and getting in fistfights because I'll end up in jail and in court. Certain rebellious activities are tolerated for teenagers, but not for adults. I'm raising a teen No, we aren't tightening the screws and demanding more compliance. We are loosening the reins and giving progressively more freedom, allowing the teen to make mistakes and learn from mistakes while the safety net is still in place and the consequences are relatively small. Children don't shift from 100% dependent to 100% independent adults overnight. It's a progression over years. The difficult teen years are part of that. What you can do about it now is work on the need for validation. Work on looking inward for answers to the questions: Am I doing what I want to be doing with my life? Am I working toward the life I truly want? What is the life I truly want, which would lead to me feeling the most fulfilled? 6
lana-banana Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 And besides, if this teenage rebellion is such a necessary step of development, why do parents usually tighten the screws and demand more compliance from their teenagers? Is that all part of the game too? Is this the part of the game where "yes" means "no" and "stop" means "go" and "absolutely not" means "please go ahead"? Most parents, or at least good parents, don't "demand more compliance". Yes, it's hard when rules are broken, but parents generally provide more responsibilities and privileges in line with the kid's ability to handle them. It's all part of preparing to be an adult. You seem all over the place in this thread---angry at movies because they don't represent reality, angry at family for not being perfect and happy, angry at society for not meeting your expectations, angry at your parents for not raising you differently. I don't think any one of these things is the cause of your frustration. So what is it you're really upset about? What do you believe you're missing that's rightfully yours? What do you feel powerless to change? PS: My boyfriend and I are planning to get married not because we believe "love conquers all", but because we know and love each other and are confident in our ability to solve problems together. We are madly, uselessly, ridiculously in love with each other, but we've also proven we're a good team and we are ready to tackle a future through good times and bad. 2
todreaminblue Posted May 18, 2016 Posted May 18, 2016 did you just imply that maze runner was a good movie? yep....deb
Author Wave Rider Posted May 18, 2016 Author Posted May 18, 2016 You seem all over the place in this thread---angry at movies because they don't represent reality, angry at family for not being perfect and happy, angry at society for not meeting your expectations, angry at your parents for not raising you differently. I don't think any one of these things is the cause of your frustration. So what is it you're really upset about? What do you believe you're missing that's rightfully yours? What do you feel powerless to change? Yes, lana-banana, this is the heart of the matter. This is the part where I'm standing on the mountaintop, and the wise guru says, "What do you want?" I will tell you, though there probably won't be too many surprises. I want what most all of you want - a stable, loving, satisfying relationship with someone who meets my needs and whose needs I can meet. My frustration is that this relationship has consistently eluded me, in spite of 15 years of my best efforts to find one, without any discernible explanation. The fact is that I do not know why my relationship fail, and fail quickly. I'm currently seeing my 17th therapist, and I've probably read all of part of at least 50 self-help books. I've had 7 girlfriends and I've been on probably at least 200 dates. And still, this relationship continues to be elusive, and I remain "chronically single," being unable to hold onto a relationship for more than a few months. Many people offer simple explanations in the form of blame and criticism: I'm too needy, I'm too picky, I'm a wuss, blah blah blah. I think it's more complex than that. I've been through many hypotheses, the latest one being based on the Imago relationship model. I am frustrated because my relationships always fail after a few weeks or months, and I do not know why. This is what I feel powerless to change: my girlfriends all left me, I do not know why they left me, and I do not know what I need to do to get them to stick around. The thing that I feel that was rightfully mine was the social contract I feel is made to young people, especially in Mormonism: If you do X, Y, and Z, you will find a happy successful relationship. Well, I did X, Y, and Z, and I don't have a happy successful relationship. So yes, I feel shortchanged, especially because I see other people who found a satisfying relationship with far less effort than I've put in. So there you have it. My cards are on the table. That is what I want, that is what I'm frustrated with, and that is what I feel is missing that I should have gotten.
wmacbride Posted May 19, 2016 Posted May 19, 2016 Yes, lana-banana, this is the heart of the matter. This is the part where I'm standing on the mountaintop, and the wise guru says, "What do you want?" I will tell you, though there probably won't be too many surprises. I want what most all of you want - a stable, loving, satisfying relationship with someone who meets my needs and whose needs I can meet. My frustration is that this relationship has consistently eluded me, in spite of 15 years of my best efforts to find one, without any discernible explanation. The fact is that I do not know why my relationship fail, and fail quickly. I'm currently seeing my 17th therapist, and I've probably read all of part of at least 50 self-help books. I've had 7 girlfriends and I've been on probably at least 200 dates. And still, this relationship continues to be elusive, and I remain "chronically single," being unable to hold onto a relationship for more than a few months. Many people offer simple explanations in the form of blame and criticism: I'm too needy, I'm too picky, I'm a wuss, blah blah blah. I think it's more complex than that. I've been through many hypotheses, the latest one being based on the Imago relationship model. I am frustrated because my relationships always fail after a few weeks or months, and I do not know why. This is what I feel powerless to change: my girlfriends all left me, I do not know why they left me, and I do not know what I need to do to get them to stick around. The thing that I feel that was rightfully mine was the social contract I feel is made to young people, especially in Mormonism: If you do X, Y, and Z, you will find a happy successful relationship. Well, I did X, Y, and Z, and I don't have a happy successful relationship. So yes, I feel shortchanged, especially because I see other people who found a satisfying relationship with far less effort than I've put in. So there you have it. My cards are on the table. That is what I want, that is what I'm frustrated with, and that is what I feel is missing that I should have gotten. Maybe it's time to stop trying so hard. Be who you are right from the start, and if the relationship doesn't make it past a few dates, it likely wouldn't have lasted long term anyway. If you have to change who you are, you will never be really happy, and when the mask comes off, neither will your relationship partner.
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