Feeling Lied To By Disney and Chick Flicks

[AMJ]

I'm not saying that I believed that the Disney stories were literally true. I'm saying that I believed - and claim that most people do believe - that the underlying messages are true. Messages like "love conquers all" and "true love is out there waiting for you" and "they lived happily ever after." I didn't believe that Ariel really kissed Prince Eric, but I did believe - and argue that many people do believe - that a single kiss can transform a person's world.

 

Well, a single kiss can transform a person's world.

[katiegrl]

 

Darn it, there's that n-word again. I must really have a blind spot here, because I'm just not getting this whole concept of neediness. Maybe you can explain how I'm being needy.

 

 

I think the fact you don't even know what being needy means or how you are being needy is an issue in and of itself.

 

Instead of asking us, why not do some introspecting and learning on our own?

 

Google can be your best friend. A very powerful tool, more powerful than even a Disney movie! lol

[Gloria25]

Mind you, I have been forced to watch Frozen 900000 times.

 

Elsa does it for me.

 

Uh, rumor has it that she's not into dudes....sorry

[bathtub-row]

And perhaps what is in order here is a "crisis of faith" about Disney movies, the same way I had a crisis of faith about Mormonism.

 

Darn it, there's that n-word again. I must really have a blind spot here, because I'm just not getting this whole concept of ou" and "they lived happily ever after."

 

Sorry, I wasn't at all implying you were being needy. I couldn't possibly know that as you've not really said anything about you and relationships. I was just answering your question in a general way. I hope that helps.

 

Mormonism? Uh, yeah, that's probably a deeper issue than Disney ever dreamed of being....

[basil67]

I argue that Disney movies are cultural myths that serve a similar purpose to religious beliefs, and that it isn't any more ridiculous for a person raised on Disney movies to believe the underlying storyline messages than it is for a person raised in a devout Christian home to be a devout Christian.

 

The difference is having devout parents. I went to school when there was scripture. And at the age of 12, I decided it was all rubbish and ended up an athiest. The reason I didn't believe in God is largely because what I saw wasn't heavily underscored by my parents. Just as they didn't heavily underscore the messages in Disney.

 

I'm not saying that I believed that the Disney stories were literally true. I'm saying that I believed - and claim that most people do believe - that the underlying messages are true. Messages like "love conquers all" and "true love is out there waiting for you" and "they lived happily ever after." I didn't believe that Ariel really kissed Prince Eric, but I did believe - and argue that many people do believe - that a single kiss can transform a person's world. I didn't believe that the Aladdin story really happened, but I did believe I was a "diamond in the rough." I believe that most people, on some level, identify with these messages. And of course, every bride and groom expect to live happily ever after.

 

The stories aren't Disney's stories. They are Disney adaptations of original folk tales which have been so cleaned up by the writers to the point that they've lost their original message. For instance, Cinderella's message wasn't about true love - it was about how kindness and good breeding will take you far.

 

Edited to add: Disney has done one adaptation of Cinderella. Shakespeare's tragedy King Lear was another version. Why believe Disney and not Shakespeare?

Edited May 17, 2016 by basil67

[Wave Rider]

The stories aren't Disney's stories. They are Disney adaptations of original folk tales which have been so cleaned up by the writers to the point that they've lost their original message. For instance, Cinderella's message wasn't about true love - it was about how kindness and good breeding will take you far.

 

You might be able to say that they are archetypal stories. A version of the Cinderella story is found in most cultures. Disney did whitewash the stories quite a bit.

 

Let's start a class action suit against Disney for tainting our innocent brains with unrealistic expectations about love and happiness. I'm sure someone has tried it at least once already.

People have tried to sue the Mormon Church for fraud, and it's never worked, because courts refuse to rule on the veracity of religious claims. The Church uses some pretty ironic arguments to exonerate themselves, such as, "We can't be held liable for fraud because it was your responsibility to investigate the religious claims were were making, and if you joined the Church without thoroughly investigating our claims, that's your fault."

 

And yes I am wondering if you are able to differentiate between fantasy and reality since you DID start this thread after all asking why we all continue to act as if these stories are REAL, and believing you have been lied to by Disney because they are NOT real.

I'm not saying that I believed the stories literally. I'm saying that I - and most people - believed the underlying messages, such as "love conquers all." If you have a better explanation for why people continue walk down the marriage aisle with strong optimism for their marriage in spite of the high marriage failure rate, I'm interested in hearing it. If people didn't believe such things as "love conquers all," I think we'd see a lot fewer marriages.

 

Somebody here said something about having good role model marriages in my life, or having friends with good marriages, and if I didn't have those, then maybe the fairy tales were my role model. That may be true. My parents had a bad marriage, and it's really been my only model. I have many friends who gotten married, and many of them seem to have good relationships. But being friends with a married couple when you're single is just weird and feels like a violation of boundaries. So I guess I just have to figure it out on my own

[basil67]

You might be able to say that they are archetypal stories. A version of the Cinderella story is found in most cultures. Disney did whitewash the stories quite a bit.

 

Exactly. This is why Disney has no relevance and should not be treated as having any meaning other than entertainment value.

[Wave Rider]

And for those of you who have suggested that I take responsibility for my own beliefs.....

 

When I was a devout Mormon, I, just like most devoutly religious people, held my beliefs tacitly, which means that I believed them because that's what I had always been taught, and I had never seriously considered that they were wrong. My source of authority was external. I believed my religion because a bunch of really important old guys in suits told me it was true. The truth was their responsibility, not mine. This is normal for what James Fowler would call Synthetic-Conventional Faith in his book Stages of Faith. When I had a crisis of faith about Mormonism, I went through a long process of demythologizing, where I had to compare my beliefs with reality, and I found to my horror that just about every religious claim made by Mormonism was either unlikely or was demonstrably false. It is through this process of demythologizing that a person takes responsibility for their own beliefs. So, like most people going through that phase, I had to stare into the abyss, and I had to grapple with existential nihilism in an attempt to find meaning in a meaningless universe. I came out of it with a different sense of meaning, and a view of the human experience that was more colorful, nuanced, and unavoidably slightly nihilistic, though I try not to focus on the nihilism too much.

 

Perhaps I've been operating under a similar set of beliefs about the nature of relationships. I've still believed the story of idealized relationships, because why shouldn't I? That's the way that everyone says it's supposed to be, including Disney movies, so why shouldn't I believe it? It obviously doesn't match my experience, but relationships are supposed to be happy because the authority of society says so.

 

But my experience tells a different story. I've found that my girlfriends are are about as good at answering text messages as God is at answering prayers. I eventually stopped believing in God, but for some reason, I kept believing in girlfriends. And just like Mormonism would blame me for God's unanswered prayers, I imagine you all would blame me for the unanswered text messages.

 

Perhaps it is time for me to explore relationship atheism the same way that I became a religious atheist.

[basil67]

If you have a better explanation for why people continue walk down the marriage aisle with strong optimism for their marriage in spite of the high marriage failure rate, I'm interested in hearing it. If people didn't believe such things as "love conquers all," I think we'd see a lot fewer marriages.

 

We get a few posters who seem to believe that love will conquer all, but by and large, I don't think posters here or people in general believe it. They are sensible enough to know that love is only part of the equation.

 

Why do people still get married? For starters, there's a 50% chance it will succeed. Further, I think it's because at the time the believe they want to spend the rest of their lives with that partner. Love is part of the equation of marriage, but not all of it. There still needs to be underlying compatibility, respect, affection etc for the marriage to work.

 

You see 50% as a high margin of failure, while others see it as a high chance of success. All depends on whether or not you're a glass half full guy.

[basil67]

Marrying for love is also a fairly recent concept. Up until recent centuries it was common to marry for practical reasons such a property and companionship.

[BlueIris]

Perhaps read some Joseph Campbell, an analyst of the meaning of myth. Myth is not to be taken literally and sometimes it conveys the crises of the human condition not the answers to it.

[basil67]

 

Perhaps I've been operating under a similar set of beliefs about the nature of relationships. I've still believed the story of idealized relationships, because why shouldn't I? That's the way that everyone says it's supposed to be, including Disney movies, so why shouldn't I believe it? It obviously doesn't match my experience, but relationships are supposed to be happy because the authority of society says so.

 

I want to know who *everyone* and *society* are exactly. Because I can't ever recall hearing that this was the way relationships operate.

 

Outside of movies, who exactly told you that this stuff about love conquering all relationships? Have you not known of relationships where all the friends predict disaster?

Edited May 17, 2016 by basil67

[Justanaverageguy]

Sounds like you are basically at the point of becoming a real adult. That is not believing everything people tell you, taking responsibility for your own beliefs and ethos and realizing that life has challenges that are different for all of us. Yes Disney had a tendency to sell a certain type of message - which I guess is a particular kind of "social ideal". Usually the underdog heroes journey and love will conquer all type thing like you have already stated. People like it and it sells ..... but most people realize life is more complex then Disney cartoons when they get through puberty just like most people learn the Easter bunny and Santa aren't real.

 

I came out of it with a different sense of meaning, and a view of the human experience that was more colorful, nuanced, and unavoidably slightly nihilistic, though I try not to focus on the nihilism too much.

 

I did enjoy your thoughts on your struggles with coming to terms with your "faith" and how you have been forced to reevaluate what you believe ... though I really can't agree with you on your conclusions that life is "unavoidably slightly nihilistic".

 

Most people that take this view have reached an understanding that there is no set "meaning", "purpose" or "truth" to existence. On understanding this if you take a pessimistic viewpoint you could conclude that if all life is inherently meaningless and without purpose then at its core it must essentially be pointless. Taking an optimistic view point however you can see things slightly differently. If life has no set meaning, purpose or "truth" .... then that means I am free to give it any meaning, purpose or truth I choose to The wonderful thing I have come to learn about life is .... meaning is really not built in. It is something that you can consciously choose to bring to it. We cannot control everything that externally happens to us in life - but we can control how we choose to interpret and frame what happens to create our personal meaning.

 

So now that you understand that life is really not a Disney movie .... is this a good thing or a bad thing ? You get to decide. You can be angry and choose to feel like you have been misled and lied to. That this has caused you great pain and anguish and forced you to struggle against false expectations and dreams. But honestly did you really want to live a life and have a relationship that follows a basic and predictable script you have seen on screen hundreds of times before ? You could encapsulate that life in 3 or 4 lines. Couldn't you instead choose to be happy, relieved and excited that you get to live a life and have relationships that are an unpredictable adventure that don't follow that boring and predictable script Disney tried to push on you ? One that when finished will be uniquely yours

 

So disappointed and angry at this realization or happy, relieved and excited .... they are both equally valid positions to take depending on how you choose to frame it ..... one of them is definitely a more enjoyable viewpoint though

Edited May 17, 2016 by Justanaverageguy

[todreaminblue]

movies of any kind are for entertainment...some movies a fair few of them come with a disclaimer saying that they are not related to real life or if they are relatable to people in real life they are not meant to be........

 

in fairy tales they often make predatory creatures into cute and fluffy things....i for instance wont take a chance on a polar bear being my friend and letting me hug him even though i would love to hug a polar bear it relies on the fact i wont because i do know for sure that he would eat my face off and crunch on my skull like a malteser......

 

as far as marriages lasting forever....its more about hard work than fairy tales....fairy tales are what you read your kids at night so they can go to sleep dreaming beautiful things.... dreams where they can believe mum and dad will stay together forever ...mum is treated like a queen and dad like a king...

and if the parents want to keep the fairy tale alive and breathing both if them must work harder than they do in their careers and face storms together...can it be done..hell or high water...for sure.... yes.....do people want to make that effort...well that depends doesnt it on the people and the desire to keep the commitment above all others bar commitment to god.......then you can have an eternity together

 

 

as i said fairytales are for beautiful dreams for sweet sleepin children....fairytales...movies....and the lion and lamb being friends(not on this earth in this time)........well...i still love fairytales...but a marriage if i ever had one would not be based on a fairytale movie...although...i love love ....happy feet..dont think ill find my happy footed penguin..the thought however....does make me smile....which i believe is what you should expect from a disney movie...not an answer to an eternal marriage........deb.....

Edited May 17, 2016 by todreaminblue

[basil67]

i would love to hug a polar bear it relies on the fact i wont because i do know for sure that he would eat my face off and crunch on my skull like a malteser......

 

I like you. And I think that nobody but we Aussies understand the Malteser reference. Though you have given me a craving right now.

[TheArtist]

The thing I hated the most was when the artist stopped drawing Bambi's mother. It's a good metaphor for life.

[The_Dork_Lard]

What are realistic expectations?

 

Death and taxes. Everything else is random and uncertain.

[Buddhist]

Well, most modern people have forgotten the true nature of fairytales. Back in the day of the Brothers Grim, they had that name for a reason..... Fairytales were just about the closest thing humans had to horror fiction. I mean seriously old women who lured small children to her kitchen with candy cane houses? Stepmothers who arrange to have children slaughtered in the woods? If you read something close to the original versions they were all fairly creepy in nature alluding to narcissism, psychopathy, and the like. Stephen King couldn't write this stuff....

 

The fact that Disney sanitised them, packaged them up with matching Barbie dolls and sold them with an entire line of merchandise does not in any way qualify them as life advice. In fact, reading the close to original versions is a better preparation for life because they clearly illustrate just how fraught with danger the woods (real world outside of childhood) are, and clearly depicted the kinds of characters and the attendant behaviours one wants to avoid (that wolf in grandma's bed). Fairytales were useful instruction in life, before Disney got a hold of them. I mean if we look at Cinderella, the real moral of that story is.....when you're running away from a clingy man who's trying to shoehorn you into a particular role in life. Remember to take all your belongings so he can't track you down.....Lol!

Edited May 17, 2016 by Buddhist

[xxoo]

I'm not saying that I believed the stories literally. I'm saying that I - and most people - believed the underlying messages, such as "love conquers all." If you have a better explanation for why people continue walk down the marriage aisle with strong optimism for their marriage in spite of the high marriage failure rate, I'm interested in hearing it.

 

The high marriage success rate. Remember, 68% of first marriages last, and many of us grew up in loving homes with married parents. That was my role model, not Disney. And now my own children are growing up in a loving home with married parents, so don't be surprised if they eventually marry believing it will last.

[Quiet Storm]

It's not Disney's fault or the makers of chick flick movies. It's your parents job to teach you that these movies are fiction. It's their responsibility to teach you the skills to cope with reality and navigate through the real world.

 

If, as an adult, you feel that your parents (or Disney) failed you, it's up to you to be your own parent, in a way. It's your responsibility to evolve into a well rounded, capable, self sufficient and emotionally mature individual.

 

You can do that with education, counseling, observations, trial & error, surrounding yourself with people that can share their wisdom, etc.

 

I personally had dysfunctional parents and a lot of instability as a child. As I got older, I realized it was dysfunctional. I could've blamed my parents or their drugs and alcohol. I could've blamed their parents for passing down the dysfunction. I could've blamed circumstances like poverty. However, blame wasn't going to help me grow and mature into a functional, happy adult. I had to fill in the gaps for myself.

[GorillaTheater]

I feel lied to by Disney. They took my money and told me relationship lies. Chick flicks did the same thing.

 

 

I hear you, brother. I felt the same way when I found out vampires weren't real and dinosaurs were extinct.

 

 

Those bastards. Playing us like violins.

[GunslingerRoland]

In Frozen Anna's fiancé tried to take over her kingdom. Belle & Jasmine and other Disney princesses also escaped from horrible relationships at some point.

 

 

And even chick flicks don't portray the idea that every relationship is perfect.

 

 

50% divorce rate isn't really the norm anymore... divorce rates are dropping albeit slowly.

 

 

Just remember that relationships are work... you need to always put your best into it, there isn't a point where you can say happily ever after and just stop caring.

[Toodaloo]

I'm apt to blurt out that Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy were fictions of childhood,

 

I read that. You take it back right now! I know Santa is alive and well because I sat on his Lap last year and he said he wasn't my brothers work mate dressed up with spray glitter eyebrows!!! He said so himself and promised me a new pony and a lexus!!!

 

Actually I haven't got a new pony or a Lexus so... you may be on to something there!

 

Disney, Pixar etc all make money out of being entertainers. The same way Punch and Judy is fictional, Jilly Cooper books *yes they are all made up too even if I did cry when she bumped off Billy Lloyd Fox*, CSI, Eastenders... the list goes on... Yep it also includes Rambo and Rocky and the A team... If Point Break had happened they would still be filling out the paper work today...

 

Fiction is to entertain. To take us away from reality for a while for a bit of fantasy... Fiction is not there to educate.

 

There is also the little matter of the disclaimers at beginning and end clearly stating that they are not real nor are they based on and real events etc.

 

Reality is where it is at. What you see on TV really is not reality in any way...

 

If it were I would be driving a Lexus and have my new pony by now...

[dichotomy]

We love Disney. TV shows, Movies, Parks, cruises - we have done them all.

 

Yes some of its older movies have a ton of issues, but it never warped my older daughter. I think Disney has grown as our society has.

 

The new Maleficent movie showed how "evil" characters might have complex origins and are capable of redemption.

 

Frozen had a good message about "true love" it was not from a man - but from sacrifice for your family. In fact falling in love for some new prince was shown to be false and unwise. Oh and how about that short but significant plug for a homosexual lead family in that shop ?

 

The jungle book movie recently remade, had some good messages for my youngest and we all enjoyed it.

 

and lets not forget Disney's role in accepting LBGT community to its parks with special days - focusing on love and families of all types - not hate.

Edited May 17, 2016 by dichotomy

[Got it]

I, like most kids in America, grew up watching Disney movies, which present a specific narrative for relationships, and thus a set of expectations. In Disney movies, a young hero, usually male, receives a call to adventure. He then passes a series of tests, having received the help of sage gurus along the way. He defeats the villain, wins the heart of the maiden, restores justice to the universe, and lives happily ever after with his maiden. You may recognize this as the monomyth.

 

Or in chick flicks, guy meets girl, they hate each other, then destiny brings them together, and through some unlikely chain of events the fall in love and live happily ever after. Again, this presents a specific set of expectations for relationships.

 

We're all here on this forum because we know that these stories are completely wrong.

 

In the real world, seeking relationships is all about approach anxiety, rejection, waiting, wondering, analyzing, half-interested people, cheating, power struggles, divorce, alimony, child support, partners who aren't "in the mood," clingy partners, distant partners, rejection, breakups, make-ups, misunderstandings, failed expectations, and occasional good times. Oh yeah, and rejection too.

 

So if the hero's story and the chick flick are unrelated to real relationships, why do we continue to act as if those stories are real, and continue to pay money to see those movies?

 

The fact is that most people still believe in the relationship fairy tale. 86% of Millennials expect their marriage to last a lifetime. In spite of the outward cynicism about relationships and 50% divorce rate, most people still believe that they will someday find their fairy tale relationship.

 

I feel lied to by Disney. They took my money and told me relationship lies. Chick flicks did the same thing.

 

I don't know what realistic relationship expectations are. Should I hope for the fairy tale relationship, but set aside money for the divorce lawyer just in case? Should I approach each woman thinking that she could be the one, knowing full well that this conversation probably won't be much different that most of the others I've had? Is there any point in believing the fairy tale - as most people secretly do - when the reality is much different? What are realistic expectations?

 

I see this, then, as a disservice that your family did to you. Why on earth they would leave your relationship learning to TV and movies without you being able to glean even the slightest glimmer from the relationships around you is a huge disservice.

 

I knew that Disney was bunk at a young age and as a female didn't want a reality where I had to be rescued and play a secondary role.