NTV Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 If those are the conclusions that your perceptions and experiences have led you to, so be it. I wish you all the best in finding what you are looking for. I am a pretty privileged member of my own culture, mostly through my own effort, and I have repudiated the white picket fence as an objective. And in fact, much of the strife I have observed amongst my colleagues and friends has been a function of the white picket fences they surround themselves with. Food for thought. I agree the white picket fences just something to hide your problems behind. Link to post Share on other sites
Jabron1 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 My teenage daughter has male friends. Those boys are smart boys, socially. By being friends with her, they get all her tips and advice and set ups with her friends, plus they just get to practice relating to girls. Sounds more like a mangina to me. He's orbiting your daughter, getting her 'advice', and looking for her to 'set him up'. He's going to learn how to relate to women like a woman. Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Sounds more like a mangina to me. He's orbiting your daughter, getting her 'advice', and looking for her to 'set him up'. He's going to learn how to relate to women like a woman. Or, you know, like a human being, which was the point. I'm not sure why having a genuine female friend makes a man a mangina. Remember when you said this? "Relate as human beings". How the hell else am I supposed to relate? I think you answered your own question. To you, there's "how to relate to women like a woman" and "how to relate to women like a man", I guess, and never the twain shall meet. No such thing as how to relate like a simple human being who likes another human being as a friend. Bummer for you. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Sounds more like a mangina to me. He's orbiting your daughter, getting her 'advice', and looking for her to 'set him up'. He's going to learn how to relate to women like a woman. It's not one boy, it's a whole group of boys AND girls who hang out together and have been friends for years. THey are doing just fine relating to girls, both in dating and in friendship. These are good looking, athletic, popular boys. No worries, they are quite popular with the girls 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Imajerk17 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 (edited) It's not one boy, it's a whole group of boys AND girls who hang out together and have been friends for years. THey are doing just fine relating to girls, both in dating and in friendship. These are good looking, athletic, popular boys. No worries, they are quite popular with the girls I can absolutely see how that would happen. The people I knew in high school who were the most socially successful were the ones who had the most friends, and this included friends of the opposite gender. Boy-girl friendships had a different dynamic versus hangin' with your crew, but I've never met anyone who is successful with women who didn't have some female friends. I mean, if women find you attractive they will want to associate with you even if they can't date you. And if they DON'T find you attractive, then they tend to not want to associate with you--unless you're giving away favours to them that is. So the "don't be friends with women" advice is short-sighted. I can see where the "don't be friends with women" advice would come from though. It is Newbie Advice taught in the PUA Community and in some circles here, as a way to "staunch the bleeding" so to speak...I mean, if someone is the type of guy who tries to win his way to a woman's heart by being her orbiter, then he needs to realize that this is a horrible strategy and he's gotta stop doing it. So he's told just to not be friends with women, because the one way he is "friends" with women is by orbiting them. Edited June 20, 2016 by Imajerk17 4 Link to post Share on other sites
MGX Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I, like most kids in America, grew up watching Disney movies, which present a specific narrative for relationships, and thus a set of expectations. In Disney movies, a young hero, usually male, receives a call to adventure. He then passes a series of tests, having received the help of sage gurus along the way. He defeats the villain, wins the heart of the maiden, restores justice to the universe, and lives happily ever after with his maiden. You may recognize this as the monomyth. Or in chick flicks, guy meets girl, they hate each other, then destiny brings them together, and through some unlikely chain of events the fall in love and live happily ever after. Again, this presents a specific set of expectations for relationships. We're all here on this forum because we know that these stories are completely wrong. In the real world, seeking relationships is all about approach anxiety, rejection, waiting, wondering, analyzing, half-interested people, cheating, power struggles, divorce, alimony, child support, partners who aren't "in the mood," clingy partners, distant partners, rejection, breakups, make-ups, misunderstandings, failed expectations, and occasional good times. Oh yeah, and rejection too. So if the hero's story and the chick flick are unrelated to real relationships, why do we continue to act as if those stories are real, and continue to pay money to see those movies? The fact is that most people still believe in the relationship fairy tale. 86% of Millennials expect their marriage to last a lifetime. In spite of the outward cynicism about relationships and 50% divorce rate, most people still believe that they will someday find their fairy tale relationship. I feel lied to by Disney. They took my money and told me relationship lies. Chick flicks did the same thing. I don't know what realistic relationship expectations are. Should I hope for the fairy tale relationship, but set aside money for the divorce lawyer just in case? Should I approach each woman thinking that she could be the one, knowing full well that this conversation probably won't be much different that most of the others I've had? Is there any point in believing the fairy tale - as most people secretly do - when the reality is much different? What are realistic expectations? Those movies are escapist fantasy and entertainment, where the hero wins/ or gets a relationship in 2 hours. That's like taking Rocky deadly serious and being disappointed when they watch real boxing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I can absolutely see how that would happen. The people I knew in high school who were the most socially successful were the ones who had the most friends, and this included friends of the opposite gender. Boy-girl friendships had a different dynamic versus hangin' with your crew, but I've never met anyone who is successful with women who didn't have some female friends. . Neither have I. It's SO much fun, imo, to spend time with mixed groups of friends--both men and women. Why wouldn't a guy want attractive, fun women in his social group? Emphasis on social group. Not some guys orbiting one woman. How odd. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Jabron1 Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I can absolutely see how that would happen. The people I knew in high school who were the most socially successful were the ones who had the most friends, and this included friends of the opposite gender. Boy-girl friendships had a different dynamic versus hangin' with your crew, but I've never met anyone who is successful with women who didn't have some female friends. I mean, if women find you attractive they will want to associate with you even if they can't date you. And if they DON'T find you attractive, then they tend to not want to associate with you--unless you're giving away favours to them that is. So the "don't be friends with women" advice is short-sighted. Listen mate, you play social-circle game. You sh*t where you eat. I did that for years being in the rave/club circles. You're acting like I was born yesterday or something. The fact that you need to have female friends in order to get some play tells me that I'm lightyears ahead of you in this game, and that you are judging me based on your own standards. I had three women ask for my number in the last month or so. I'm not even really trying, and I'm not out sarging like I used to. Out of those three, one was disqualified for being in my social circle (work). I don't need that hassle, because I have a true abundance mentality that a lot of guys can only dream of. Where have I advised "don't be friends with women"? I couldn't really care what you do - as long as you don't come crying to me when you get unnecessary drama. You shouldn't be bothered about what I do either. Like Bruce Lee said: I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you aren't here to live up to mine. I can see where the "don't be friends with women" advice would come from though. It is Newbie Advice taught in the PUA Community and in some circles here, as a way to "staunch the bleeding" so to speak...I mean, if someone is the type of guy who tries to win his way to a woman's heart by being her orbiter, then he needs to realize that this is a horrible strategy and he's gotta stop doing it. So he's told just to not be friends with women, because the one way he is "friends" with women is by orbiting them. If you really think I need rudimentary advice on managing my life, you are mistaken. It's SO much fun, imo, to spend time with mixed groups of friends--both men and women. Why wouldn't a guy want attractive, fun women in his social group? Emphasis on social group. Not some guys orbiting one woman. How odd. I find many of your ideas odd too. C'est la vie. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I find many of your ideas odd too. C'est la vie. That's cool. The ideas I've shared are intended to help the OP achieve his goals. Not to change anyone's personal philosophy. As for the "Picket Fence" story, that too is a myth. A nice house, two cars, two kids, double income doesn't make for happily ever after. There is no happily ever after. Married or single, there ain't no fairy tale anywhere. There's just LIFE, with all of its joys, sorrows, struggles and more struggles. Life really is what you make of it. A person can be just as happy or miserable in a big house behind a white picket fence with a family as he can single and dating. Or single and not dating. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Springsummer Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Tell me about it. Life turns out to be the opposite of what I was taught and used to believe. Life is utterly ironic. It makes a fool out of me. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts