Guidance needed re opp-sex friends

[katiegrl]

My guess is she will probably dump HIM before he dumps her.

 

Sooner rather than later too. She has already lost respect, so it's only s matter of time.

 

Then he might learn.

 

Right now he is wearing blinders.

 

Like most people, will have to learn the hard way.

 

Best of luck OP.

[MrBump]

Look I'm not happy with this situation and that's precisely why I came on here to post. Plenty of people male & female have opp-sex friends including some they've had sex with whilst single. It doesn't sit well with me but it's a far from unique scenario. My girlfriend's argument is that she's with me, doesn't want her male friends 'in that way' and that I should trust her. She sees my inability to gel with this situation as somehow proving that I don't trust her. I can see her point but she fails to see mine that certain situations breed insecurity and bring needless stress into a relationship. She isn't cheating on me so shouldn't I just suck this up? It would appear that the vast majority of you are imploring me to walk away when ultimately my g/f just has a different opinion on what kind of friendships are acceptable in a serious, committed relationship. If her parents and all her friends side with her viewpoint then how can she necessarily be in the wrong? Why does our difference of opinions mean that she doesn't respect me or our relationship?

[PegNosePete]

She isn't cheating on me so shouldn't I just suck this up?

No, you should not.

 

If her parents and all her friends side with her viewpoint then how can she necessarily be in the wrong?

OF COURSE her parents and her friends side with her! That is what parents and friends do! They side with their daughter and friend! They are not neutral parties in this. They are biased.

 

Besides I'm sure she's been telling the whole story very differently to them, in order to make her behaviour seem acceptable.

 

Why does our difference of opinions mean that she doesn't respect me or our relationship?

Your difference of opinion doesn't mean that.

 

Her calling you abusive names, dismissing your feelings, and showing complete disrespect for you, does!

[katiegrl]

OMG of you can't see how calling you an insecure controlling "nutjob" isn't disrespectful then frankly there is no point in anyone even responding further.

 

You clearly have no self-respect or self-esteem yourself which is a whole different issue altogether, and one you should prob seek therapy to resolve.

 

Best.

[Cinnamonstix]

Look I'm not happy with this situation and that's precisely why I came on here to post. Plenty of people male & female have opp-sex friends including some they've had sex with whilst single. It doesn't sit well with me but it's a far from unique scenario. My girlfriend's argument is that she's with me, doesn't want her male friends 'in that way' and that I should trust her. She sees my inability to gel with this situation as somehow proving that I don't trust her. I can see her point but she fails to see mine that certain situations breed insecurity and bring needless stress into a relationship. She isn't cheating on me so shouldn't I just suck this up? It would appear that the vast majority of you are imploring me to walk away when ultimately my g/f just has a different opinion on what kind of friendships are acceptable in a serious, committed relationship. If her parents and all her friends side with her viewpoint then how can she necessarily be in the wrong? Why does our difference of opinions mean that she doesn't respect me or our relationship?

 

You are proving my point exactly. All you are looking for is advice that confirms that which you were seeking. And now you're upset you aren't getting it. Not sure why you bothered posting when you've already heard the same thing from her friends and family.

 

By the way, that's another thing for why this relationship isn't likely to work. Her friends and family don't like you now.

[MrBump]

OMG of you can't see how calling you an insecure controlling "nutjob" isn't disrespectful then frankly there is no point in anyone even responding further.

 

You clearly have no self-respect or self-esteem yourself which is a whole different issue altogether, and one you should prob seek therapy to resolve.

 

Best.

 

Cripes. She says I need therapy for being jealous and now you're saying that I need therapy for trying to see her perspective. I've read numerous threads on here where people are accused of being insecure and possessive over their partner having opp-sex friendships and yet here I'm being berated for trying *not* to behave that way...

[katiegrl]

Cripes. She says I need therapy for being jealous and now you're saying that I need therapy for trying to see her perspective. I've read numerous threads on here where people are accused of being insecure and possessive over their partner having opp-sex friendships and yet here I'm being berated for trying *not* to behave that way...

 

No I said you need therapy because you have no self respect. And little to no self-esteem.

 

Because if you did, you would never tolerate this BS. No man would. No person would.

 

Again, this is not even about the guy friend anymore. Or your *difference of opinion* in that regard.

 

It is about her verbally abusing you, and yes calling you a nutjob IS verbal abuse.

 

And her utter disregard for your feelings, and you not caring and allowing her to continue to call all the shots and essentially walk all over you.

Edited May 17, 2016 by katiegrl

[MrBump]

No I said you need therapy because you have no self respect. And little to no self-esteem.

 

Because if you did, you would never tolerate this BS. No man would. No person would.

 

Again, this is not even about the guy friend anymore.

 

It is about her verbally abusing you, her utter disregard for your feelings, and you not caring and allowing her to continue to call all the shots and essentially walk all over you.

 

She thinks I'm being controlling, insecure, possessive and jealous. She also feels that my viewpoint on this issue is weird and that I'm coming across like a nutjob. That word doesn't bother me to be honest, I have quite thick skin and can hurl around insults myself. With regard to her disregarding my feelings, the only way she can pay them any regard is by ditching all her friends, allowing me to accompany her out with them at all times, or allowing me to collect her at the end of the evening. None of these are acceptable to her because it shows that I don't trust her and I can appreciate that. So according to you I have no self respect and little to no self esteem. I posted to see if I *am* showing insecure or jealous traits, not to get everyone to side with my partner. I was expecting some women to say that I'm being out of line I must say.

[katiegrl]

I thought at first you could try to see her perspective, but after learning she called you an insecure controlling nutjob, I changed my POV.

 

Because now it isn't even about the guy friend anymore. It is about her lack of regard for your feelings, which is huge, at least it is to me and most people.

 

That said, if being verbally abused doesn't bother you, so be it, enjoy!

 

I hope you guys can come to some sort of a resolution that works for both of you, I truly do.

 

Again, best of luck.

[Timshel]

This is not an all or nothing scenario from my perspective. Opposite sex friends, including exes are possible.

Are you included in her interactions with these friends? Are they open to including you and are they respectful of your relationship....or is this an only friends with her at the exclusion of yourself situation? Context is important and circumstantial. If there is both transparency and respect from all parties, then continued friendship with all is not impossible.

 

In your particular situation, your gf seems defensive and dismissive of your concerns. If she has made no effort to alleviate your doubts by introducing and including you.....and setting boundaries, then she is not invested in protecting your relationship as a priority above others. You should take her as seriously as she takes you.

 

Likewise, if her orbiters ('friends') make no effort to be respectful toward you then it tells all you need of their own motivations.

As her best friends....as any friend would be, they should encourage her happiness in her relationship and want to know the fine gentleman that landed her. If her best male friends show you no deference than that is exactly how they feel and should be duly noted.

 

Good luck, agree with other posters that from your account, gf does not seem to respect your relationship as much as you are hoping.

[Cinnamonstix]

She thinks I'm being controlling, insecure, possessive and jealous. She also feels that my viewpoint on this issue is weird and that I'm coming across like a nutjob. That word doesn't bother me to be honest, I have quite thick skin and can hurl around insults myself. With regard to her disregarding my feelings, the only way she can pay them any regard is by ditching all her friends, allowing me to accompany her out with them at all times, or allowing me to collect her at the end of the evening. None of these are acceptable to her because it shows that I don't trust her and I can appreciate that. So according to you I have no self respect and little to no self esteem. I posted to see if I *am* showing insecure or jealous traits, not to get everyone to side with my partner. I was expecting some women to say that I'm being out of line I must say.

 

Yes you are showing insecure and jealous behaviour. Unless you are simply this way in all of your relationships regardless of circumstances, this is usually an indication that the relationship is the right fit for us.

 

OP, the point is that you find a relationship that fits you. You don't try to mould yourself to fit the relationship.

[katiegrl]

Yes you are showing insecure and jealous behaviour. Unless you are simply this way in all of your relationships regardless of circumstances, this is usually an indication that the relationship is the right fit for us.

 

 

Cinnamonstix, did you mean to say "this is usually an indication that the relationship is not the right fit for us"?

 

If so, 100% agree.

[Cinnamonstix]

Cinnamonstix, did you mean to say "this is usually an indication that the relationship is not the right fit for us"?

 

If so, 100% agree.

 

Yep, typo!

[PrettyEmily77]

OP, I don't think you are insecure or jealous. I also don't think your GF is a conniving person who is 'gaslighting' you.

 

FWIW, one of my closest and oldest friends is male and I'm on friendly (though distant) terms with my first BF - it's all above board with my SO, he's met and really like my friend and doesn't really want to get involved with my ex, but I barely see him anyway. he has kept in touch with a couple of his exes too. I personally find it reassuring that people can make a distinction between a 'nasty' ex and someone from whom you simply grew apart without hatred or bad feelings. We can't all be expected to hate all our exes or want to bed them at a moment's notice...

 

So you can try and accept the situation as it is without using it at as blackmail later on, and without bringing it up every chance you get when things don't go your way - that is, you genuinely make peace with the fact she has male friends, one of which is an exFwB, maybe by getting to know them yourself.

 

 

But the point is - you don't have to accept it. You have your own limits just as she has hers, and they are just as valid as hers. You may have very sound reasons for thinking the way you do and if it affects you enough that you are losing respect and trust for her, I can't see it ending well.

 

Compromise on this if you know you can work the situation out somehow so that it doesn't damage your relationship further. If you already know, in your heart of hearts, that this isn't something you can live with for whatever reason, walk away before things get too nasty.

[big dog]

sounds like you should think about moving on..... if this is an issue now it's probably not gonna go away and will only become increasingly worse as time goes by.

[salparadise]

She thinks I'm being controlling, insecure, possessive and jealous. She also feels that my viewpoint on this issue is weird and that I'm coming across like a nut job.

 

Of course she does. It's called gaslighting, and it's working extremely well on you.

 

 

With regard to her disregarding my feelings, the only way she can pay them any regard is by ditching all her friends, allowing me to accompany her out with them at all times, or allowing me to collect her at the end of the evening. None of these are acceptable to her because it shows that I don't trust her and I can appreciate that.

 

You've suggested a number of things that might help mitigate the situation and she rejects them out of hand. Why do you think that is? It's because she doesn't give a damn about how it makes you feel.

 

 

So according to you I have no self respect and little to no self esteem. I posted to see if I *am* showing insecure or jealous traits, not to get everyone to side with my partner. I was expecting some women to say that I'm being out of line I must say.

 

This really is some twisted reasoning. You know how it makes you feel, you've offered compromises and she dismisses them out of hand. You're caught in a dilemma between your feelings about her making the orbiters a higher priority than you, her unwillingness to budge, and your visceral (and correct) feeling that it simply isn't right.

 

Your solution is to try and change the visceral feelings, and you're on here for the express purpose of getting people to reiterate that, yes, you are an insecure, jealous nut job... like her friends, family, and the orbiters are saying. WTF? Are you a masochist or something?

 

Here is the fundamental error... you are accepting the false premise that she has shoved down your throat––that it's perfectly acceptable that she maintains close relations with the orbiters. There have been many threads on here about this subject, and they all end up with the same conclusion... that it's not acceptable. At least not to the vast majority of people who want a successful, monogamous relationship. It is, of course, acceptable to the women who love their orbiters more than their primary relationship and have no respect for their significant other.

 

She is simply trying to get you to drink the cool-aid, and you've already swallowed half a dose. Now you're on here asking us to give you permission to swallow there other half even though every instinct in you body and brain are saying Nooooo!

 

The problem is that you're thinking she's your only chance of getting pussy. If you had any experience at all in a relationship where your needs were a priority you'd be walking away from this mess knowing that there are plenty of women out there who will respect you, and have no inclination to rub a fan club of ex-phukk buddies in your face every day.

 

What you really should be thinking is, could everyone on this forum be wrong? If you are indeed a masochist then you've got a pretty good plan going on. She might even treat you to the cuckoldry lifestyle, and you might just like it. But if not, your only real option is to grow the cajones to walk away and date women who do not have this proclivity.

[serial muse]

There are many, many people who think it's alright to stay close friends with exes and friends they've had sex with previously whilst single. I don't subscribe to this way of thinking but it doesn't necessarily mean that my girlfriend has no empathy or respect for me. She utterly disagrees with my viewpoint but should she drop her friends just to please me, would that be fair? Yes I hate this situation but I do have empathy and I also want to make the relationship work if I possibly can.

 

It's frustrating that her parents and friends think I'm being jealous and controlling too, nobody close to her seems to understand my viewpoint on this. Also, I cannot see what kind of compromise we can achieve here. She either bows down to my wishes or me to hers. Ultimately she isn't cheating.

 

Yes, I have lost trust but I haven't lost love. How do I know that I'm not being an idiot over this? Sure I would much, much rather she considered my feelings and stopped hanging with these guys but should she really pander to my insecurities and bow down to my wishes? ... I must admit that her steadfast refusal to even try to understand my perspective annoys me. I offered a kind of compromise in that I would pick her up in the early hours after these nights out (we don't live together) and that I would sleep over afterwards, but she dismissed this out of hand as me being controlling, untrusting and 'checking up on her'.

 

Right, she isn't cheating on you. But, OP, you're answering your own question: This is a pretty fundamental point of view issue, she isn't trying to understand your perspective, and while you're perhaps trying to understand hers on an intellectual level, you're also offering compromises that strongly undermine that (sorry - but yeah, offering to hang about to make sure there isn't any hanky-panky going on does pretty much scream a lack of trust).

 

As a disclaimer, I wouldn't like her setup either, and I'm a woman. So it's not that I think you're "wrong". But I'm not sure she is, either. I don't think it's necessary to disparage her for having a different point of view on boundaries. The problem is that your points of view are fundamentally incompatible.

 

So what you're basically asking here is how can you break up with someone when you're super happy and in love and there's just this one little niggling thing about which you're diametrically opposed? Well, I think this one niggling thing is going to get a lot bigger, and fast. It already has. It's already drawn in her mother (!!! not her business) and friends and everybody's got an opinion and let's face it, you've only been dating 6 months.

 

Save yourself. Not from her, because she's not the enemy. But from a quagmire that isn't likely to change. She'll resent you if she has to give up her friendships for you, and you'll resent her if you have to stew quietly while she hangs out with them. Maybe it's not the right match?

[mikeylo]

MrBump, YOU are not insecure, jealous etc. Google gaslighting. If you don't agree , then chalk it up to incompatibility and move on. Keeping men ( or women for that matter), when seeking a serious monogamous relationship doesnt work. She might be looking for an open relationship. A woman surrounded with men or a man surrounded with women will not be accepted by any 'normal ' person.

Why they behave the way they do,could be chalked up to many issues within themselves and projecting them on you is a form of abuse.

 

If the roles were reversed , I would have without a doubt said that the guy will turn abusive towards the gf.

[PegNosePete]

I was expecting some women to say that I'm being out of line I must say.

But they didn't. Everyone here (male and female) says she's totally out of line. But you're refusing to listen because you're totally under her spell.

 

Good luck OP...

[preraph]

But they didn't. Everyone here (male and female) says she's totally out of line. But you're refusing to listen because you're totally under her spell.

 

Good luck OP...

 

I don't. I've kept friends my whole life and never run into it being a problem, probably mainly because the guys I dated knew they could always find someone else if it went to crap. But it never went to crap for that reason.

[katiegrl]

I don't. I've kept friends my whole life and never run into it being a problem, probably mainly because the guys I dated knew they could always find someone else if it went to crap. But it never went to crap for that reason.

 

I think she is wrong

 

NOT for having her ex as a friend, but for totally disregarding and dismissing her bf's feelings and for calling him an "insecure controlling n-job."

 

THAT was wrong.

 

Dealbreaker in fact IMO.

[preraph]

I know if I was in those shoes, I'd insist on also being friends with all her friends, including the male ones. If the situation was reversed, as it often is, I'd call the woman and invite her to dinner and tell her she can bring a date or not and get a vibe for what was really going on. Yes, it would make the bf really nervous if I did that and he'd probably be mad, but if so, then I know he's hiding something. If instead he thinks it's great that his friend and GF are going to get along, then once I get to know her, I can tell a little more about what she is up to because she will talk girl talk and tell me if she has a crush other than my bf and that sort of thing.

 

I wouldn't be nasty at all. I'd see if I could become friends. I mean, if she's that great, shouldn't he want me to also know her? I have certainly been able to be friends with some guys I dated and their women and in fact went to a concert with an ex who I remained friends with from working together and his wife recently. Interestingly, she felt me out about another woman, one I happen to know is a devious user who has always manipulated him, who still, as she put it, "insists on keeping up with us." Hah. It is possible to have some complex relationships, but there has to be inclusion.

 

So I agree that if she's not willing to be transparent, it's not good. But you can takes steps yourself and get to the bottom of it pretty quickly.

[pteromom]

She has got a point, if looked at in a certain way. I should be confident, trust that she's with me and consider none of these friendships to be any threat.

However, that's only one way of looking at it and I'm certainly not that amazingly cocksure of myself to let none of this bother me.

 

You don't have to be sure of yourself - just sure of HER.

 

Honestly it doesn't matter what any of these other guys want from her. You have to trust her to be faithful.

 

I am more like your gf - I don't see a big deal about exes and other opposite sex friends. Exes are exes for a reason.

 

But the big thing here is can you get on the same page?

 

Personally, I find trying to control your partner's friendships kinda like treating him/her like a child. Trust her or don't. But this isn't about other people.

[katiegrl]

I know if I was in those shoes, I'd insist on also being friends with all her friends, including the male ones. If the situation was reversed, as it often is, I'd call the woman and invite her to dinner and tell her she can bring a date or not and get a vibe for what was really going on. Yes, it would make the bf really nervous if I did that and he'd probably be mad, but if so, then I know he's hiding something.

 

preraph, just curious.

 

If, after you proposed the above^^ to your bf, or otherwise told him you were uncomfortable with him being friends with his ex, and he responded by calling you an "insecure, controlling nutjob," how would you feel about that? How would you handle it?

 

Cuz, IMO it's not even about the friendship anymore. It's about her dismissing and disregarding his feelings, disrespecting him and verbally abusing him.... after he expressed discomfort about it and wanted to discuss/resolve it.

Edited May 18, 2016 by katiegrl

[pteromom]

Yes but her friends all hang out together as a big group and if she ditches one she ditches them all. It isn't quite so simple as one random guy she can give the flick. I have offered two compromises, one being that I accompany her on these nights out and the other that I collect her afterwards. She needs 'space' from me and enjoys going out without me, and won't entertain the idea of me collecting her afterwards as it's too untrusting. Apparently I would be checking up on her and besides, she doesn't want to stick to a rigid time to end her night out. I do understand both those arguments but it leaves me without even a compromise solution.

 

From her point of view, the "compromise" sounds like this:

 

"I trust you, but not really, so I need to go with you to make sure you are doing what you say you are doing, and I need to pick you up to make sure you aren't going home with someone else."

 

Which isn't much of a compromise, because it shows you DON'T really trust her.

 

And not even to say you should - maybe she has done or said something that is making you unsure of her loyalty to you. If so, you are wise to listen to that.

 

But you can't make someone faithful by following them around and checking up on them. And you can't control or limit someone into loving you more.

 

You have only 2 choices:

 

End it because you have very different ideas of what is acceptable in a relationship.

 

Or

 

Deal with it. One of 2 things will happen. Your worst fears will come true and she'll end up getting with one of these guys. Or - over time, you will see that she always comes back to you, what she says always checks out as the truth, and these guys really are just friends, in which case, your fears and insecurities will fade away.

 

That said, I do agree with others who say that her calling you a nutcase and shaming you for your feelings are completely out of line. It's ok for her to disagree with you, but she needs to accept what you are feeling and try to understand it better.