katiegrl Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) Oh I have tried to politely and rationally explain my feelings on it without making demands. It got me nowhere. I then got narky and made demands which got me nowhere either. However I present my argument I'm labelled as a jealous, insecure nutjob. She even said that I need counselling to help with my insecurity! I have never previously been a jealous or controlling boyfriend. A jealous insecure nut job? You need counseling? I hope she really didn't call you a *nut job" cuz now we are bordering on verbal abuse, which for me personally, is a dealbreaker. You say telling you to dump her is easy for us to say, because you are in love with her, but actually no it's not easy for me to say. I dumped a man I was with for six years in December, a man I was very much in love with, because he placed more value on meth and coke than he did me and our relationship. So I do get it. But this is now bordering on, if not all the way, dysfunctional and toxic for both of you. I don't say this lightly but if my bf EVER spoke to me like that for expressing a concern about a behavior that troubled me, I would not hesitate to pack up my bags and leave right then and there...... And I have, when my bf called me a derogatory name for the first time in six years, that is precisely what I did.. I walked out and didn't return until we talked it out and he understood that name calling like that was unacceptable. Disrespecting my feelings was unacceptable. We patched it up for awhile till I found out he was a full blown drug addict and I left for good! Not even because of the drugs but because he promised rehab, reneged and lied to me. We were even engaged, planning a beautiful wedding in Hawaii this year . So believe me I do know how hard it is.... Again your choice. Respect yourself. Or disrespect yourself by allowing HER to disrespect you. I am actually shocked that you are still there quite frankly . Edited May 17, 2016 by katiegrl
Author MrBump Posted May 17, 2016 Author Posted May 17, 2016 A jealous insecure nut job? You need counseling? I hope she really didn't call you a *nut job" cuz now we are bordering on verbal abuse, which for me personally, is a dealbreaker. You say telling you to dump her is easy for us to say, because you are in love with her, but actually no it's not easy for me to say. I dumped a man I was with for six years in December, a man I was very much in love with, because he placed more value on meth and coke than he did me and our relationship. So I do get it. But this is now bordering on, if not all the way, dysfunctional and toxic for both of you. I don't say this lightly but if my bf EVER spoke to me like that for expressing a concern about a behavior that troubled me, I would not hesitate to pack up my bags and leave right then and there...... And I have, when my bf called me a derogatory name for the first time in six years, that is precisely what I did.. I walked out and didn't return until we talked it out and he understood that name calling like that was unacceptable. Disrespecting my feelings was unacceptable. We patched it up for awhile till I found out he was a full blown drug addict and I left for good! Not even because of the drugs but because he promised rehab, reneged and lied to me. We were even engaged, planning a beautiful wedding in Hawaii this year . So believe me I do know how hard it is.... Again your choice. Respect yourself. Or disrespect yourself by allowing HER to disrespect you. I am actually shocked that you are still there quite frankly . Fair do's, I'm sorry to hear your tale. Yes she really did call me a nutcase and said that I need counselling purely because I'm uncomfortable with her going out drinking with her ex-FB and his/her pals (most of whom are male too). Then there's the ex she's besties with too. Apparently I need to 'grow up' and accept that they're all just good friends. I have no close female friends and I only go out socialising with male friends so she has no similar stresses to deal with from my end. She says that she would be totally cool if I did, but talk is cheap isn't it. I'm sure that deep down she would rather I didn't bring any close opposite-sex friends/exes/ex-FBs into my inner circle... 1
mikeylo Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 Its hard for you to break up because you are in love ? No issues. Stay in love and soon her behaviour will make you out of love before you realize it and then she will be left wondering.You will not hate her, rather become indifferent. Then find someone who doesnt keep men around to fulfill her deep rooted issues.You dont have any relationship at the moment anyway !
salparadise Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) Its hard for you to break up because you are in love ? No issues. Stay in love and soon her behaviour will make you out of love before you realize it and then she will be left wondering.You will not hate her, rather become indifferent. Then find someone who doesnt keep men around to fulfill her deep rooted issues.You dont have any relationship at the moment anyway ! What you have, OP, is an attachment, not love. She doesn't have respect or empathy and doesn't even pretend to. You're attached to a woman who tells you that you're an insecure, controlling nut job for wanting the kind of trusting relationship that most happy couples have naturally. What you're in love with is the concept of that natural, happy, trusting relationship... not who she is. No doubt it's easier for us to say than it is for you to do. We all get that. It's also easier for us to see the emotional-rational divergence for the exact same reason. Sometimes you have to put your rational brain in control of the emotional side to make good decisions. The emotional side wants immediate gratification and has little perspective; the rational side knows better what will work for the long-term, and it can entertain the concept of short term loss as being necessary for your longer term emotional well-being. Emotions are good, they're just not always rational. When the two are in alignment... that's a nice relationship. I think you should not stick around waiting for the other shoe to drop. You know it will, don't you? Like how you didn't find out until later that she was shtupping the fb right up until she met you... it's a wise man who understands that which he does not yet know. This is never going to be ok with you, and she's never going to change. Rational. Edited May 17, 2016 by salparadise
PrettyEmily77 Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 Well I kinda automatically have a distrust for a girl whose three closest friends are all male, one of them is an ex and another is a very recent ****buddy. Call me paranoid and untrusting but that kind of set-up breeds insecurity for me. Then when you throw in that she completely dismisses my feelings about it and a part of me distrusts her even more. I think to be able to put up with exes and old ****buddies hanging around you need 100% trust and for that I'd need these guys to be fringe players and not her besties. I'd be cool then. You've lost respect for her and you don't trust her, yet you're still considering things over? I don't have the same boundaries as either of you but that alone would make want to walk. She crossed a serious boundary of yours she's unlikely to do anything about; that would be it for me, regardless of what the boundary is. No need to diffame her mum's, friends' or her own character - you're pissed off enough to have lost respect and trust and really, that's that. 1
Author MrBump Posted May 17, 2016 Author Posted May 17, 2016 What you have, OP, is an attachment, not love. She doesn't have respect or empathy and doesn't even pretend to. You're attached to a woman who tells you that you're an insecure, controlling nut job for wanting the kind of trusting relationship that most happy couples have naturally. What you're in love with is the concept of that natural, happy, trusting relationship... not who she is. No doubt it's easier for us to say than it is for you to do. We all get that. It's also easier for us to see the emotional-rational divergence for the exact same reason. Sometimes you have to put your rational brain in control of the emotional side to make good decisions. The emotional side wants immediate gratification and has little perspective; the rational side knows better what will work for the long-term, and it can entertain the concept of short term loss as being necessary for your longer term emotional well-being. Emotions are good, they're just not always rational. When the two are in alignment... that's a nice relationship. I think you should not stick around waiting for the other shoe to drop. You know it will, don't you? Like how you didn't find out until later that she was shtupping the fb right up until she met you... it's a wise man who understands that which he does not yet know. This is never going to be ok with you, and she's never going to change. Rational. There are many, many people who think it's alright to stay close friends with exes and friends they've had sex with previously whilst single. I don't subscribe to this way of thinking but it doesn't necessarily mean that my girlfriend has no empathy or respect for me. She utterly disagrees with my viewpoint but should she drop her friends just to please me, would that be fair? Yes I hate this situation but I do have empathy and I also want to make the relationship work if I possibly can. It's frustrating that her parents and friends think I'm being jealous and controlling too, nobody close to her seems to understand my viewpoint on this. Also, I cannot see what kind of compromise we can achieve here. She either bows down to my wishes or me to hers. Ultimately she isn't cheating.
Author MrBump Posted May 17, 2016 Author Posted May 17, 2016 You've lost respect for her and you don't trust her, yet you're still considering things over? I don't have the same boundaries as either of you but that alone would make want to walk. She crossed a serious boundary of yours she's unlikely to do anything about; that would be it for me, regardless of what the boundary is. No need to diffame her mum's, friends' or her own character - you're pissed off enough to have lost respect and trust and really, that's that. Yes, I have lost trust but I haven't lost love. How do I know that I'm not being an idiot over this? Sure I would much, much rather she considered my feelings and stopped hanging with these guys but should she really pander to my insecurities and bow down to my wishes? I constantly hear that women can cheat at any time and that we can't try to prevent this happening by clipping their wings. I must admit that her steadfast refusal to even try to understand my perspective annoys me. I offered a kind of compromise in that I would pick her up in the early hours after these nights out (we don't live together) and that I would sleep over afterwards, but she dismissed this out of hand as me being controlling, untrusting and 'checking up on her'.
mikeylo Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 Yes, it would be fair.It really is that simple. One day, you too are going to be one of those ' friends' when she is finds another new guy who is in love with her !Duh At the moment , you are in love , so can't see for what it is. You WILL soon see yourself walking from her without any feelings for her.
Author MrBump Posted May 17, 2016 Author Posted May 17, 2016 Yes, it would be fair.It really is that simple. One day, you too are going to be one of those ' friends' when she is finds another new guy who is in love with her !Duh At the moment , you are in love , so can't see for what it is. You WILL soon see yourself walking from her without any feelings for her. Yes but her friends all hang out together as a big group and if she ditches one she ditches them all. It isn't quite so simple as one random guy she can give the flick. I have offered two compromises, one being that I accompany her on these nights out and the other that I collect her afterwards. She needs 'space' from me and enjoys going out without me, and won't entertain the idea of me collecting her afterwards as it's too untrusting. Apparently I would be checking up on her and besides, she doesn't want to stick to a rigid time to end her night out. I do understand both those arguments but it leaves me without even a compromise solution.
mikeylo Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 Who is the happy one in this so called relationship? You or her ? It's her. She is getting a guy who is in love with her and a few men on the side who are drooling over her. She is the one getting best of two worlds and you, none. You are basically sharing her with those guys who are in their hearts , laughing at you and sorry to say , she has made you a laughing stock ! With no respect and trust , what is left man ? Nada. Give your love , trust , loyalty etc to those who deserve it. This one doesn't. If you continue , you will really need therapy because she is going to make you crazy. Gas lighting has already started. Find a nice woman who has at least basic qualities. This one is the worst of the lot ! Sorry. 2
PegNosePete Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) She has got a point, if looked at in a certain way. I should be confident, trust that she's with me and consider none of these friendships to be any threat. You should be confident, yes. But that doesn't mean allowing her to behave as she wishes. That is not being confident, it's being walked over. Trust is earned, not given. What has she done to earn your trust on this matter? Nothing. So why should you trust her? She is acting in an untrustworthy manner. Consider none of them to be a threat? Well, she is behaving unreasonably and dismissing your viewpoint, opinion and feelings. SHE is the threat here, not the "friends". Her actions are compromising your relationship. hope that the majority of replies here agree with my girlfriend! Sorry, I totally and utterly agree with you, not her. She needs 'space' from me and enjoys going out without me, and won't entertain the idea of me collecting her afterwards as it's too untrusting. Dude, you're totally being fed a line, and you're swallowing it hook line sinker and copy of Angling Times. Why do you think she wants to go out without you? What do you think she gets up to? What a load of old cobblers about it being "too untrusting". She is acting in a totally untrustworthy manner. You are right to NOT TRUST HER. She is up to no good. Dump her ASAP. Edited May 17, 2016 by PegNosePete 1
PrettyEmily77 Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 Yes, I have lost trust but I haven't lost love. How do I know that I'm not being an idiot over this? Sure I would much, much rather she considered my feelings and stopped hanging with these guys but should she really pander to my insecurities and bow down to my wishes? I constantly hear that women can cheat at any time and that we can't try to prevent this happening by clipping their wings. I must admit that her steadfast refusal to even try to understand my perspective annoys me. I offered a kind of compromise in that I would pick her up in the early hours after these nights out (we don't live together) and that I would sleep over afterwards, but she dismissed this out of hand as me being controlling, untrusting and 'checking up on her'. You have to stick to your own boundaries, man. If it's important to you then you're not being an idiot. If she carries on pushing your boundaries (and I am not saying she's doing it on purpose to antagonise you, she's just sticking to her own values), you're either going to resent her or expect her to adjust to one of your values as a compromise, and she may not like it. The love you have for her will ultimately turn sour - I don't think it's wise to wait to that point. A happy realtionship is meant to bring the best in you, not make you feel bad. 1
Cinnamonstix Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 I offered a kind of compromise in that I would pick her up in the early hours after these nights out (we don't live together) and that I would sleep over afterwards No. Just no. If a guy ever said that to me, I would lose all attraction and respect. I would respect him more for saying, "I'm not comfortable with this. This doesn't work for me. Take care." Reading through this whole thread, I'm getting the feeling that you want people to tell you that you are wrong and that she is right, just so you can keep the relationship. In the face of awesome advice to walk, you keep going back to talk of compromise. There is no compromise at this point. That would have been offered right away if it was coming from a place of love and understanding. If you did compromise now, you'd both be unhappy because you'd know it'd have been for the wrong reasons. It's also obvious to me that you've placed her on a pedestal and she can sense that. Your gf doesn't respect you. She knows you'll stick around despite being unhappy, just to keep her. It could very well be that for a guy she did respect, she would toss her orbiters because she wouldn't want to risk her relationship. Don't be that whiny guy who takes what he can get and bends over backwards trying to be comfortable in a situation that is clearly against his beliefs. The best thing you can do for your own self-respect (and her respect for you that matter) is to keep your boundaries firm and end the relationship. Find someone that shares similar views as you. There are many out there that do. 2
mikeylo Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 Just chalk it up to incompatibility and dump her. How do you know she isn't banging any of them or all ? When a guy keeps female ' friends ' around , no decent woman would stick around. Those women are always giving him advice that kills his relationship so that he is left for them! Happens every day. I recently saw a guy friend ( I'm a guy ) with similar situation as you but role reversal. His female friend comes and hugs him , shows her cleavage intentionally , he enjoys it, drooling, laughs with his new gf right there. She breaks up. He calls her nuts. He will gas light her exactly like you are being. Walk away. I can guarantee you that you are going to be one in the flock once she is done with you or end in therapy for no fault of yours. 1
Author MrBump Posted May 17, 2016 Author Posted May 17, 2016 No. Just no. If a guy ever said that to me, I would lose all attraction and respect. I would respect him more for saying, "I'm not comfortable with this. This doesn't work for me. Take care." Reading through this whole thread, I'm getting the feeling that you want people to tell you that you are wrong and that she is right, just so you can keep the relationship. In the face of awesome advice to walk, you keep going back to talk of compromise. There is no compromise at this point. That would have been offered right away if it was coming from a place of love and understanding. If you did compromise now, you'd both be unhappy because you'd know it'd have been for the wrong reasons. It's also obvious to me that you've placed her on a pedestal and she can sense that. Your gf doesn't respect you. She knows you'll stick around despite being unhappy, just to keep her. It could very well be that for a guy she did respect, she would toss her orbiters because she wouldn't want to risk her relationship. Don't be that whiny guy who takes what he can get and bends over backwards trying to be comfortable in a situation that is clearly against his beliefs. The best thing you can do for your own self-respect (and her respect for you that matter) is to keep your boundaries firm and end the relationship. Find someone that shares similar views as you. There are many out there that do. Yeah I do bend over backwards to try and make this relationship work. One thing I would never accept is cheating. What good is her respecting me more for dumping her? What does that get me? Also people seem to be ignoring the fact that all her friends know each other and hang out together. If she ditches one she ditches them all so how can I expect her to give up all her friends for me??
mikeylo Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 He is under the influence of her gas lighting him that he wants someone to say that she is right and he is wrong.
katiegrl Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 I am back to being utterly appalled that she called you an "insecure, controlling nut job" and you are STILL there! Good lord OP, where is your self-respect man? Your self-esteem? Your damn backbone? How the hell do you expect her or anyone else to respect you if you can respect yourself first? I don't care how intoxicating the chemistry or how great the sex is, or how much in love you think you are, this is freakin verbal abuse man, what is wrong with you? Calling you that should be automatic dealbreaker, next!!! Immediately. You don't hang around trying to *work it out* with a verbal abuser, with a woman who has no regard for your feelings ....... and trust me if you do, it I'll only get worse. It has only been six months,, this is how it starts. Dude, she has ZERO respect for you, can't you see that? Again, I am shocked and appalled you are still there, good grief. 2
mikeylo Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 Yeah I do bend over backwards to try and make this relationship work. One thing I would never accept is cheating. What good is her respecting me more for dumping her? What does that get me? Also people seem to be ignoring the fact that all her friends know each other and hang out together. If she ditches one she ditches them all so how can I expect her to give up all her friends for me?? Dude, how do you know she is not cheating already ? Dumping her will give you a chance to find a nice decent woman. You just have to look. What she does or doesn't do with her ' friends', is not your problem.
Cinnamonstix Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 Yeah I do bend over backwards to try and make this relationship work. One thing I would never accept is cheating. What good is her respecting me more for dumping her? What does that get me? Also people seem to be ignoring the fact that all her friends know each other and hang out together. If she ditches one she ditches them all so how can I expect her to give up all her friends for me?? You keep finding ways to try and rationalize her point of view. You're right. She has a side to things. No one is saying you can expect her to drop her friends. Not a single person. She is the kind of person that sleeps with members of her group of friends. That's her prerogative. Some people might be cool with this, just as there are people that prefer open relationships, BDSM, etc. Everyone is different! The point is is that you are not okay with the situation and you can't change it. I think you need to read this thread over and over so that what we are saying sinks in. It's not going to work if you keep approaching this from wanting her to be right and you to be wrong.
PrettyEmily77 Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 He is under the influence of her gas lighting him that he wants someone to say that she is right and he is wrong. I really don't think so. She is as entitled as anyone else to have her own values. They just happen to be different than OP's. It's a unique situation and there really doesn't have to be anything sinister behind it. OP, I think you have an issue enforcing your own boundaries and / or you don't have many. Raise your values and stick to them, you then won't have to constantly play cat and mouse with any prospective partner.
PegNosePete Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 Yeah I do bend over backwards to try and make this relationship work. And what does SHE do to make it work? Goes out with her ex and her ex-FWB and refuses to listen to your viewpoint. While you're sat at home bending over backwards. That sounds really fair...! If she ditches one she ditches them all so how can I expect her to give up all her friends for me?? Nobody is advising you to tell her to give up her "friend(s)". We are advising YOU to give up HER! Because she is a terrible GF who disrespects you to your face, yet you keep coming back begging for more!!
mikeylo Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 I really don't think so. She is as entitled as anyone else to have her own values. They just happen to be different than OP's. It's a unique situation and there really doesn't have to be anything sinister behind it. The reason I said so is because he says that she calls him insecure, jealous, controlling , but job, needs to grow up, etc AND as the thread has progressed , you can see that he really has doubting himself and seeing from her pov and losing his sight on his mental health. I could be wrong but that's how I'm seeing this. There will be many guys who wouldn't mind gfs like this because they themselves will be keeping other females around. Kind of open relationship.
katiegrl Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 OP, we are not suggesting you dump her to elicit some sort of a reaction from her. You dump her for YOU so you can get back whatever shred of self-respect you have left. So you can find a woman worthy of you with whom you can have a mutually-rewarding emotional healthy respectful RL. Who cares what she thinks? She thinks you are an insecure controlling nutjob, how can it get worse than that? How you could even bear to be the the same room with her after calling you that is beyond my realm of compression. It is not even about this guy friend anymore, it is about her total lack of respect for you. No woman who respected you and loved you would ever ever call you that.
Cinnamonstix Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 Yeah I do bend over backwards to try and make this relationship work. One thing I would never accept is cheating. What good is her respecting me more for dumping her? What does that get me? Also people seem to be ignoring the fact that all her friends know each other and hang out together. If she ditches one she ditches them all so how can I expect her to give up all her friends for me?? It's the fact that she will respect you less for staying with her/bending over backwards when you are unhappy. Think about it. Would you respect a woman who put up with you no matter what you did? No. You'd think that she must be that desperate for love that you can do anything to her. You can't love someone you don't respect. This relationship simply will not work unless you magically accept it for what it is. And that doesn't even touch on the fact that she completely discounted your feelings.
salparadise Posted May 17, 2016 Posted May 17, 2016 He is under the influence of her gas lighting him that he wants someone to say that she is right and he is wrong. Exactly. I wrote a post trying to point out his logical errors and the friggin forum ate it, but it doesn't matter. OP is not listening to what people are saying. He's looking for some magic words that will resolve the dichotomy. He has already bought into the notion that this nothing more than a difference in perspectives. Here ya go, OP.... Abracadabra. Problem solved.
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