Mycatsnuggles Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 I had an affair with a younger MM, the younger is very important because I am reminded almost daily of the fact tha he was younger. It has been almost 2 years since dday. I thought we were going to move beyond it. He forgave me which I am thankful for. I have tried to become the woman he wants. But the reprocussions of my affair seem to be never ending. Maybe I am in just a bad stretch IDK, this is my only venue to vent. I can't to H for obvious reasons. We get along wonderfully most times, enjoy the same activities, he can be witty and entertaining. We have been out to dinner and people have thought we were on a first date because we are so affectionate and engaged with one another. But then there is the other side of him. He gets cold and cruel, biting comments thrown at me out of the blue, if I don't do some task for him, or don't perform it the way he would like I am chastised, constantly the ribs about "younger men" or am I too old. But the worst most difficult part is sex. Initially he tried to have me enjoy it, something I have struggled with. Lately, I am like his masterbation tool. I am only there to satisfy his needs, mine are not even in the equation. I would love to have a discussion about this but it only brings up his feelings from the affair. I'm not looking for advice so much as wondering if any one else has been in this place. I realize I caused the hurt and pain and this is my punishment for my actions. But does he know he is making me miss my affair partner. I have seen BW say how the other woman was only a free prostitute, MM never made me feel like a prostitute my husband is.
purplesorrow Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 Why stay if you feel like a prostitute? This doesn't sound remotely like reconciliation. Reconciling is about healing not punishment. 6
elaine567 Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 YOU are now in an emotionally abusive relationship with your husband. People can say you deserved it, it is karma etc. etc....but it is what it is - emotional abuse. He is not respecting you as another human being, he is punishing you, hurtoig you, putting you down and making you miserable deliberately. How can you live like this for the rest of your life? There is only so much you can take, or do you resign yourself to your fate... 6
loveisanaction Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 I am on a website where majority of the posts are from betrayed husbands. From what i have read men have a harder time forgiving a cheating wife. I have read hundreds probably thousands of stories from betrayed wives but the agonizing pain i read from the stories of the betrayed husband is what really teaches me the depth of destruction an affair can cause. These men are in so much agonizing pain some have even contemplated harming themselves. Strong men who run companies, who are CEOs and VIPS, crumbling to pieces like a child. Women are stronger emotionally, when our husbands cheat on us we are more forgiving but the men, when their wives cheat on them it breaks them. Even if they were lousy husband of the year the moment their wife cheats on them something inside of them cracks. If you do an internet search and spend time reading stories on the betrayed husband maybe it will give you an insight into the inner torment that your husband is going through. Men do take it harder when their wives cheat on them, internally it breaks them. When it comes to cheating (from what i have read) women are much stronger emotionally. 5
burnt Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 Your words are very telling: "I have tried to become the woman HE wants". "This is MY punishment", "I would love to have a discussion about the affair, but it brings up HIS feelings"; "MM never made me feel like a prostitute my husband is". Neither you, nor he has gone past the affair; neither of you really dealt with the issues. Have you seeked any type of marriage counseling post affair? If the two of you aren't able to discuss the affair and are only silently resenting each other, then this is not a marriage--it's an arrangement and a prison. May I ask what caused the affair in the first place? It sounds like the reasons for which you ended up in the affair don't seemed to have been resolved either. Yes, you are right; your actions were wrong. But there's nothing worse than a woman feeling like she's getting treated like a prostitute by her own husband in her own bedroom is simply abusive and traumatic. He may feel justified to do so out of anger. But are either of you happy to stay in this marriage? You may not be looking for advice, but sorry to say BOTH of you need to have these issues openly discussed through MC, MC, MC. Marriage is not supposed to be an arrangement, in which the wife tries to mold herself according to the way her husband WANTS. It's about meeting both people's needs and wants equally and fairly. While you were wrong in having an affair, that doesn't mean he now has a free ticket to turn you into an emotional and physical slave for the rest of your life. Marriage is not about punishment, retribution, or revenge--it's not supposed to be a passive aggressive war zone or torture chamber. It's supposed to be a safe heaven for both people. Venting here is good; but you two really do need to seek MC, if you two want to remain married--otherwise you must leave for your own sake. 5
NTV Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) mycatsnuggles, I hope I am able to help some here, as a BH. Currently my sex life sounds a lot like yours, where I put also no consideration into whether my ww is enjoying it. This doesn't come from a place of punishment. It comes from several other areas... first is that I have doubts that I am able to satisfy her. or that she can be satisfied. That's a self-esteem issue I know, and I know I could address it....but let me get into the other things because once it's coupled with the other things... the second thing is, I realized that nothing I can do can MAKE her orgasm or enjoy it. Oh sure some things might help, but a lot of it is in her head... and I have no control there. I could feed her flowery words and compliments, but that would be encouraging the part of her that gave in to other guys to get them. So I'm stuck. Nothing I can do there, she either chooses to get into it and enjoy or she doesn't. the third thing going on is that her affair was really selfish. I spent YEARS working to try to improve our sex life, everything I could think of, and most of the time the response was disinterest. It's a hard thing to experience that kind of rejection for that period of time. So for her to have sex with others was a complete slap in the face. So a large part of me wants to focus on my enjoyment. Her AP's used her for sex, am I not more important? The fourth thing is if she came to me seeking to please me more often, then I would definitely reciprocate. And I don't mean just initiate, I mean there are things I like. Does he like when you dance? handcuffs? masks? My ww still doesn't put much effort into going above and beyond, so why should I? I know that's not a good attitude, but I put a lot of effort into our relationship prior to the cheating and got rewarded for it with pain. I MUST limit how much effort I put in (and this part extends beyond sex life) to equal what she does or I'm at risk for it happening again. I mean, I'm supposed to get a fair shake in marriage too right? The fifth thing is if I focus on her pleasure it's 'too much pressure' and she'll never orgasm. Or she'll feel guilty for allowing me to focus on her and still won't enjoy it. The sixth thing is that I'm still dealing with the underlying thoughts about her selfishness. It feels like a lot of the times we speak or do something she has (and it may be subconscious) the intent to make it about her. It really bothers me when we're working with the kids. Kid's stuff should be about the kids. Why do I bring this one up? because it also applies to sexual selfishness. I'm hoping she can control her selfishness in all areas, including the bedroom.... and show me she can. So...to sum it all up: I can't win for losing. About the only thing I can do is ensure that I get mine. Anything other than that is a giant psychological nightmare. To make it even better.... Talking about it gets me no where. It'll devolve into a two hour conversation about sexual history with no agreement on things to do to improve... or if there is an agreement there isn't any follow-through at her end. Those are my thoughts, for whatever they're worth. Usually not much--just the ranting of a stranger on the internet. Edited May 13, 2016 by NTV 2-3 things turned to more, sorry 7
stilltrying16 Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 I am so sorry- this must be incredibly painful for the OP. Punishment is just not a healthy dynamic and steeling yourself for sexual punishment has to be dreadful. But it also seems that here, as well as in NTV's case, the betrayed partner's hurt was not acknowledged in the way they needed. Is it possible that there was a rush into reconciliation? May I ask OP & NTV how your talks about reconciliation went before you got to this point? Did both you and your partners choose it willingly and openly? Were you both really convinced that divorce was off the table? Maybe those talks should be resumed and reconciliation taken off the table until both partners really are committed- which means building a new marriage. IMO what would be great now is IC for each partner, and MC eventually. Everyone involved has to commit fully to reconciliation or it will collapse. And reconciliation has to be guided by respect and love. But that commitment can't happen until there's a full acknowledgment of the hurt of the betrayed partner and of what he/she needs in order to feel loved and respected.
NTV Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) stilltrying, sorry but what I was getting at with all of that is that it is NOT a form of punishment. It's a form of self-induced situational helplessness. Acknowledging my hurt isn't going to do anything to make my ww more interested or eager or willing. It won't change anything about the sexual dynamic but reinforce the already complicated strands of psychological constraints. May even add a new strand like 'every time I wanna get sexual you want to remind me of what you did. can't you live in just this moment with me?' Yeah... totally not interested in another apology when I wanna get lucky. As far as going into it willingly and openly, I am not sure that anyone can do that 100% of the way 100% of the time. Cheating alters a betrayed's whole concept of what love and marriage is.... and it can never go back. My point was to describe what I'm experiencing on my end so that the OP could see where the other side is. I am no longer interested in discussing or MC about this topic... why? because my WW never makes any consistent improvements in our sex life. The most that would happen is I'd get a week of interesting love-making, then it goes back. Edited May 13, 2016 by NTV tmi 1
stilltrying16 Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 Gotcha! And so sorry. I was trying to make my first para (the punishment scenario) about OP's situation, and the second about yours. Didn't want to conflate them- and I should have been a lot clearer. Apologies, NTV.
AlwaysGrowing Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 Initially I wondered why a FWW would use a forum dedicated to OM/OW to try to gather insight about their BS and R....as that is not really the audience here and their knowledge about R or the BS perspective is not something that is a goal per se. I think you will have to sift through the posts more so here than in the infidelity section....however as we can read there are some insightful posts here....if understanding, empathy and R is your goal. NTV, just wow. I am in awe of how you so clearly laid out your vulnerabilities. Of how you have described the inner workings that you are dealing with post affair. OP, you will get advice that your BH should just man up and give 100% to R, and if he isn't then it means he is punishing you. That could not be further from the truth. He is protecting himself from you. In a marriage, we allow ourselves to be vulnerable to another. An affair exploits those vulnerabilities. An affair agrees with those vulnerabilities and creates more vulnerabilities. That does not mean those vulnerabilities are based on truth.....just of how the affair made one feel about themselves and the relationship with their partner. Affairs create walls. There is the initial affair wall (built to blind the BS) that the WS built. Then there is the wall (more accurately a fortress) that a BS builds to protect themselves.....rightly so. I generally do not think that MC is the best tool for R. I believe IC is what the focus should be for both parties in R, with MC added in later. I say this because who exactly is each party after Dday? Who is one working on R with? Most WS have lost their sense of self and generally are still operating with a WS mindset/viewpoint. The BS is most often a ball of hate/love/strength/weakness and in a state of internal confusion......shielded by self-protection. Neither party is hardly in a position to bring their true self to the table...let alone hear the other party. I do not think you are in a place of remorse towards your husband or the affair. I say this because you view his actions as punishment. Not his hurt....not his struggles....how it affects you. Two years later you are missing your AP....the very person who rode the vehicle that ran him over. You have fond memories of the AP/affair and he has nothing but hate/rage/dislike towards your AP/affair. Pretty much polar opposite residual viewpoints/feelings about something that has caused immense pain for your husband. In other words.....your husbands self-protection mode was rightfully maintained to protect him. Have you at all investigated R help? Or searched out what a BH goes through/thinks/feels/looks for in R? 8
Liam1 Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 But does he know he is making me miss my affair partner. I have seen BW say how the other woman was only a free prostitute, MM never made me feel like a prostitute my husband is. I think he knows on some level and hence the biting comments and the reason why he continues subjecting you to them two years after the affair ended. IMO, an affair can not ever be compared to a real long term marriage. You have to decide whether you still love your husband. It sounds as if you may not. Counseling may help you to figure it out. Long term marriages evolve to companionate love and that type of love is typically far less lustful than a new romance with someone different. This is the reality of a long marriage. Can you accept that, or would you prefer to remain single forever playing the field? Companionate love is an intimate, non-passionate type of love that is stronger than friendship because of the element of long-term commitment. "This type of love is observed in long-term marriages where passion is no longer present" but where a deep affection and commitment remain.
Author Mycatsnuggles Posted May 13, 2016 Author Posted May 13, 2016 I haven't gotten a chance to fully read the responses but wanted to say to NTV THANK YOU. I think you understand our dynamic. Things are going well most times between us but when he wants to sex with me I think the mind games start and he gets angry, but wants to have sex which gets him angry, then hurt. I see this and I am trying to help as best I can. I know he is conflicted and hurt. I'll respond more later. thanks to all who read and posted. My morning was rough and I was hurt so I posted to let my own anger go. It has now. 1
NTV Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 mycatsnuggles, Sure thing! I know I kinda condensed a lot of stuff into one little posting, but if it sounds like where your BH is at, then I'll be here to bounce ideas off of. Keep in mind, I do totally agree with the Liam's post, in that any positive feelings you have for AP only work to keep you from fully committing and work against the marriage. I think that holding onto any of that won't do you any good unless you plan to divorce and get back together with that guy. I understand a lot of wayward folks do hold on to that hope at some level, but would you want your BH pining away secretly over some lady? If you did leave and get with this other man, would you want him secretly pining away after his ex? I'm not saying it isn't normal... in fact, the way I understand it, that it would be weird not to on some level. But just like if you got a divorce, the goal there would be get to the emotional stage of 'eh' about your exH, so to should it be the goal on thoughts about the AP. Dangit, I meant for this to be a two sentence I'm here for q & a if needed and ended up with a dang book again! <sigh> I should put an 'I talk too much' warning in my signature block.
Bittersweetie Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 I'm a fMW, over six years out from d-day and still together. And my husband never treated me like yours. Was my husband angry, upset, disgusted? Yes. Did he demand certain behaviors from me like transparency and NC? Yes. But as we moved forward with reconciliation, we treated each other with sensitivity and respect as we dealt with the consequences of my actions. TBH, at two years out, I'd just gotten pregnant, which we planned. As others on this board have pointed out, the WS does a lot of the heavy lifting after d-day, but at some point the BS has to do some work too. A reconciliation is a two-way street, which is of course unfair to the BS. But for the relationship to move forward healthily both sides have to give 100%. You do not have to punish yourself forever. Use your experience to grow into a stronger and healthier person. And as for missing your AP? I did too after d-day until I realized I just wanted an escape from my life. I wanted an adrenaline hit to get me through the devastation I caused. It sounds like you're still dealing with some destruction and looking for an escape from that rather than actually missing AP as a person. If you don't feel safe talking with him about this alone, then MC may be a safe place to do so. My H and I didn't do MC; but we had parameters in place during our discussions and one was not to belittle the others words/thoughts at any time. Good luck.
sandylee1 Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 How many men in this world would be satisfied with sex where they don't ejaculate/have an O? A big fat zero I'm sure. I don't know why they think it's ok for women to put up with not having one. Did he satisfy you before the affair? Was he a good lover? Considerate? Because some men just aren't great lovers and don't make the effort to please their woman. It's all about them. I've had a couple of those encounters and never went back. His use of your body isn't helping and I've heard BHs say their doing it to drive the WW away. The unsatisfying sex may have caused the affair in the first place (not that I believe it's justified) and then afterwards.. you get more of the same poor unsatisfying sex. Why has he chosen to reconcile? Is it kids? Or fear of loosing half of the assets? Ultimately you have to decide whether you want to stay in the marriage.. because otherwise it's a waste of everybody's time. A WS is entitled to call time on the marriage as well. Perhaps expressing that you are unsure about continuing in the marriage will have him rethink. 4
elaine567 Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 Why has he chosen to reconcile? Is it kids? Or fear of loosing half of the assets? That is a very good point because if he is not reconciling for "love" or for the OP as his wife or for his marriage per se, but only for status, friends, community, kids and assets, then she may be in for a very rough ride for years and years and years. 5
ladydesigner Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 (((Mycatsnuggles))) I think it is great that you are coming here to look for help an answers. It means you care about the state of your M. I wish my WH had even 10% of your remorse. Curious did your A end on Dday? Did you trickle truth or blameshift? I think a lot of how R is going to go is how much lifting the WS is willing to do and the BS has to be open to R during that time as well. Did you and your H go to any type of counseling? Has he read any books on infidelity? 1
malvern99 Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 OP, try looking at things from your BH's perspective. You are only 2 years out from d day... it typically takes up to 5 years for a couple to fully heal, and that is under the best of conditions. Your BH likely lashes out and says mean things every so often because he is still hurting. At 2 years out, thoughts of the A may not dominate his every waking moment, but I would bet money he thinks about it daily. Is he in IC? As NTV said, the sex issues are probably some combination of his insecurities and his desire to protect himself from further hurt. Your best option here seeing as you are in R is to talk to your BH about what you are feeling. If you feel his anger is an issue, then do it a MC session. R without 100% honesty and transparency rarely if ever works. Talk to him about how you feel and listen to him about how he feels. Talk of missing AP 2 years after d day is surprising for someone in R. How can you miss someone who helped you hurt someone you love? That may be something you want to explore.
NTV Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 How many men in this world would be satisfied with sex where they don't ejaculate/have an O? A big fat zero I'm sure. I actually was on some medication for a while where that happened. It sucked the first time because it was unexpected but after that it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. To be fair there is MUCH more pressure on men to ensure their partner is satisfied because of the difficulty in continuing once he finishes. In fact, as you pointed out, many times continued opportunities for love-making is dependent upon performing well each time. I used to take time to deliberately be considerate and attentive to try to assure that my ww did reach it. But I've found that this it totally outside my control. Being attentive, consider, etc. or controlling, dominant, etc. can only go so far in love-making. Way too much resides on the woman's interest and excitement which she controls. This goes back to what I was saying in my second point. And really, if I focus too much on trying to ensure her pleasure I end up at the fifth point... 'too much pressure, can't enjoy it/get into it.' Which again, leads me to... D***ed if I do, and d***ed if I don't. At some point all these psychological restrictions led me to attempt all sort of other options. Maybe if we just get drunk we won't think about it? Well, that might have worked if I wasn't a BS. Drinking after betrayal was like being led blindfolded down a rabbit-hole by Alice-in-wonderland. Bad idea. Maybe could try that again 2 years out. IDK. It's like being stuck in a rut. If I could get to a place where we both were able to turn off our brains and just f*** like animals several times in a row, then we could set up a habit. It just doesn't work like that. 'Course this is all discussed outside of hysterical bonding---good times there. Err... Sandylee back to your point about not working to help your partner O, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying it's probably 4 times more complicated than your comparison makes it out to be.
sandylee1 Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 NTV, I know the female orgasm can be a mystery to some men. For me... I do need to focus to get there, but having a partner that is all in and is patient to get you there or try is half the problem solved. It's also hard /difficult to tell a man he's not 'hitting the spot' without hurting his feelings and bruising his ego. Having had guys who don't seem to know what a clip is or just slap on some lube and shove themselves in.... it feels terribly demeaning as a woman to receive that kind of sex and it's disheartening too. I'm not a WW ..... but I'm sure it feels just the same to be on the receiving I f
sandylee1 Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 NTV, I read your detailed post, but ultimately if sex is unsatisfying for your wife how will that help you both. If you are just focusing on your pleasure.... do you give a thought for how she feels? I know the female orgasm can be a mystery to some men..... and requires some focus to get there for women, but having a partner that is all in and is patient to get you there or try is half the problem solved. It's also hard /difficult to tell a man he's not 'hitting the spot' without hurting his feelings and bruising his ego. So all to often women put up with below average sex. Having had guys in the past who just slap on some lube and shove themselves in.... it feels terribly demeaning as a woman to receive that kind of sex and it's very disheartening too. It's awful to be on the receiving end of that kind of sex where you feel used.. like a sperm receptical. It can make you feel like just going to the bathroom and crying because you feel you aren't even worth being made happy. Like an unpaid prostitute. I know being betrayed is totally devastating .... and for men it has the added issue of feeling emasculated at times... but it doesn't help by thinking your WW shouldn't get pleasured anymore. Otherwise the BH might as well file for D and be done.. I've read BHs actually say that they have to zone out to have sex with their WW post dday.. because their so hurt/disgusted/traumatised by it and use her like a blow up doll. Others refrain from sex altogether out of fear they won't match up to the OM ... then some go above and beyond to satisfy the WW sexually. Everyone differs... but the sex where you use your WW will either: 1) leave her miserable and dying inside but staying and accepting it due to guilt. 2) lead her to have another affair OR 3) lead her to end the marriage Which of the above is really a desired outcome? 1
NTV Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 How come none of the options water focus on making it more enjoyable to me so that I might want to? Or to try harder to make sure that she's pleased? Is it supposed to be at least 50/50 venture, right? Coming from a place where I'm dealing with all the bad side effects of her selfishness when is that selfishness going to stop? What's really wrong with wanting to feel sexually attractive to your spouse? No I know that I can go above and beyond and put a lot of effort into trying to please her and there's probably a good 85 90% chance that she will o. But that only leaves us in a place where I'm the one doing all the effort and she doesn't do anything above and beyond for me again.... In to answer the why don't I leave if that's the case question well I understand that it takes several years to recover from an affair and I'm hoping that this is just a stage. Thanks for listening! 1
sandylee1 Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 How come none of the options water focus on making it more enjoyable to me so that I might want to? Or to try harder to make sure that she's pleased? Is it supposed to be at least 50/50 venture, right? Coming from a place where I'm dealing with all the bad side effects of her selfishness when is that selfishness going to stop? What's really wrong with wanting to feel sexually attractive to your spouse? No I know that I can go above and beyond and put a lot of effort into trying to please her and there's probably a good 85 90% chance that she will o. But that only leaves us in a place where I'm the one doing all the effort and she doesn't do anything above and beyond for me again.... In to answer the why don't I leave if that's the case question well I understand that it takes several years to recover from an affair and I'm hoping that this is just a stage. Thanks for listening! It was a general question on why not leave ... not to you specifically..... but thanks for the reply. I've heard a fair few BHs say that they're waiting for the youngest to go off to college and they'll be out of the house. NTA - I know it's a horrible thing to have your spouse betray you and it's great to have your views here. Of course it should be a joint venture when you're in the act and there's nothing wrong with wanting to feel sexually attractive to your spouse at all. If I felt my hypothetical WS wasn't sexually attracted to me, then I really wouldn't be motivated to stay in the marriage. I mean the pain of betrayal is bad enough and I my self esteem would be terribly damaged if I didn't make my exit. OP ..... I think communication from your BH would help ... if he could communicate his feelings to you...... his needs .... his reluctance ... so that you would at least have an idea...... at least of how your actions have affected him. Have you been in MC? If the goal is to repair the marriage then it would be wise. 1
Marc878 Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 2-5 years to get through an affair but even then it's always there in some form. Some depending on their personality/makeup never recover. If there was rugsweeping, trickle truthing it just makes it longer or even impossible long term. Especially if caught in the act, graphic texts, emails, etc. the mind movies last a long time. An affair may destroy a marriage but lies will. Don't know your full story but if he can't get over it the marriage should be ended so you both can move on and have a future life. 3
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