Recover from missed window with girl

[IslandDude]

Looking for thoughts and suggestions for when a guy seems to miss the window of opportunity with a girl and ends up as friends.

 

This came out of a discussion in a different post and wanted to start a dedicated one for it.

 

Essentially the scenario is I have a friend that I really like and would like to build a relationship with, however I feel like I missed the window by not kissing her or anything the first few times we were out together. Now we text all the time and hang out casually a lot, to the point where it seems like the type of things and conversations I have had with past girls who were actually my girlfriend, with the big difference being we seem to be stuck as friends with nothing romantic going on.

 

I know this is a super common issue but my question is what's the best way to time either a conversation or move, etc. to let her know that I am interested in more. I think she will kind of freak out if I just go to kiss her or bring this up out of the blue since we've been hanging out so much already. I also feel kind of lame just texting her anything about that. Just looking for any suggestions on how to at least get a feel for whether she is interested or not. I like her a lot either way and am fine if we are just going to be friends, but at the same time I don't want to move on and put her in the friend box if there's a chance for us to be more.

[morrowrd]

The truth of the matter, when you're friendzoned, it would have gone there no matter what you did. Girls will let you know when they're interested, it will be like a yellow brick road. Although sometimes us men miss the signals, other times misread signals (happens more than the first). An example I see alot - "a cashier keeps smiling at me, I think I need to ask her out." (you get the idea)

[NTV]

The only time I ever got out of that situation was by giving her the silent treatment for three-four days followed by a properly timed:

 

 

'you know... I've been thinking. I have enough friends and don't need more. If you want to go out on a date, I'm very interested in you right now, but I don't want you to be my friend.'

 

 

And then when (and you know she will) she gives you the 'but my boyfriend should also be my best friend!' -type response, you answer with:

 

 

'Naw, friend is a step down from girlfriend. I have a bunch of friends, and a handful of really close ones, but can have only one girlfriend.'

 

 

'Course I tried that twice and that didn't work 1/2 the time.

[smackie9]

Stop being a coward. When you meet for the first time, chat a few times then ask her out on a date....not hang out. hanging out is for buds.

 

Don't be trying to "build up a relationship" that is where you are going wrong. To be more desirable is to be less available/mysterious/ aloof/indifferent.

 

When you are too eager to please, and do everything with them you look like a P*&^%

[IslandDude]

Stop being a coward. When you meet for the first time, chat a few times then ask her out on a date....not hang out. hanging out is for buds.

 

Don't be trying to "build up a relationship" that is where you are going wrong. To be more desirable is to be less available/mysterious/ aloof/indifferent.

 

When you are too eager to please, and do everything with them you look like a P*&^%

 

I'm with you. I've got that down for next time and actually did start with this one on a date but then it turned into texting and hang out buddies since then so just wondering if there's any good way to swing it back to dates. Maybe just call her instead of texting and saying I really want to go out again or something. Not sure. I think right now she probably thinks I'm only interested in being friends.

[phineas]

I'm with you. I've got that down for next time and actually did start with this one on a date but then it turned into texting and hang out buddies since then so just wondering if there's any good way to swing it back to dates. Maybe just call her instead of texting and saying I really want to go out again or something. Not sure. I think right now she probably thinks I'm only interested in being friends.

 

Do that.

Call her and ask her on a date.

She says anything but yes you back off and stop giving her attention.

 

You find another woman & you get on with your life because continuing to be friends with a woman you want more with.

[PinkElephants]

Don't just hang out at her place and hope she gets the romantic vibe. Plan an activity and call it a date. Take her out for gelato, on a picnic, to an amusement park, something outside the house.

 

I've had a couple guy friends become interested in more and one thing that's intensely unsexy is when they hint around and lack the balls to make a move.

 

Of the guys that did make a move, a couple times the friendship ended because it got awkward, I'm still friends with another and the last one is now my boyfriend.

 

Good luck and be prepared for any outcome!

[Versacehottie]

Don't just hang out at her place and hope she gets the romantic vibe. Plan an activity and call it a date. Take her out for gelato, on a picnic, to an amusement park, something outside the house.

 

I've had a couple guy friends become interested in more and one thing that's intensely unsexy is when they hint around and lack the balls to make a move.

 

Of the guys that did make a move, a couple times the friendship ended because it got awkward, I'm still friends with another and the last one is now my boyfriend.

 

Good luck and be prepared for any outcome!

 

Yeah, it can also be simple things too where you purposely go open her car door for her when you are "hanging out together"; that's a date move.

 

You can also do this. Pull back. Right now everything is comfortable for her. If you want to get to the bottom of this riddle, pull back and stop being easy to "hang out" with. Take a break from the friendship and when enough time has passed for a "reset" (and she has had a chance to miss you properly), give it the real shot you should have the first time. Hopefully she will be the one to get back in touch but you might have to be the one. I think your game needs a dose of cocky (done right).

 

*glad you started your own thread since your situation, to me, is significantly different than the other poster's. Lots of good info in his which you can use but ultimately in your situation, you already hang out with this girl a lot/she is truly a friend of yours. If you are just hanging out one-on-one, I believe there is a chance. After the first time which WAS a date, did she talk to you and indicate that she would rather be friends or anything like that alluded to?

[truth_seeker]

Stop being a coward. When you meet for the first time, chat a few times then ask her out on a date....not hang out. hanging out is for buds.

 

Don't be trying to "build up a relationship" that is where you are going wrong. To be more desirable is to be less available/mysterious/ aloof/indifferent.

 

When you are too eager to please, and do everything with them you look like a P*&^%

 

Wow.

 

I have no desire to be friends with a woman. Good Lord. I want the woman to be my woman. She does her thing (talk to her friends, shopping, watch reality trash TV), I do my thing (talk to my guy friends, work out, watch UFC) and at the end of the day we get together in the same bed and bang. Rinse and repeat.

[IslandDude]

Yeah, it can also be simple things too where you purposely go open her car door for her when you are "hanging out together"; that's a date move.

 

You can also do this. Pull back. Right now everything is comfortable for her. If you want to get to the bottom of this riddle, pull back and stop being easy to "hang out" with. Take a break from the friendship and when enough time has passed for a "reset" (and she has had a chance to miss you properly), give it the real shot you should have the first time. Hopefully she will be the one to get back in touch but you might have to be the one. I think your game needs a dose of cocky (done right).

 

*glad you started your own thread since your situation, to me, is significantly different than the other poster's. Lots of good info in his which you can use but ultimately in your situation, you already hang out with this girl a lot/she is truly a friend of yours. If you are just hanging out one-on-one, I believe there is a chance. After the first time which WAS a date, did she talk to you and indicate that she would rather be friends or anything like that alluded to?

 

On our date I did all the usual things like opening car door, etc. but since then we've been meeting places like her house or my house or places near our work where we don't have to travel together. This is all hanging out one on one and texting a lot. After the date there was no talk or anything about just being friends. That's what has left me confused. I half feel like she's waiting for me to make a move but also half feel like she's not interested since she doesn't seem to indicate any interest when we're together. I guess I should try what you suggest and back off but I really hate any kind of games. I'm more of a "just tell me yes or no and get on with it" kind of guy. All the other stuff always seems like a huge waste of time but like you said maybe that's the only way to try for a reset in this situation. The problem might be I'm not sure what the real shot is that I should have done the first time. The only things I can come up with is I guess I should have kissed her on the first date and not hung out with her outside of proper dates. Both of those things seem a little off to me since with past girlfriends if we clicked we'd end up hanging out right away even though they weren't dates.

[katiegrl]

My first bf and I started as just friends. For about a year it was just a friendship.

 

One night we went out *as friends* as we always did, had a few beers, got up to dance and he kissed me!

 

Straight on the lips, a long passionate kiss!

 

We went home together that night, had sex, and were together four years!

[smudge21]

You need to be totally 100% prepared to say goodbye to her. I would bet that as much as you want to be in a relationship with her, there's a part of you that fears that if you do step up, you will push her away and lose her altogether. It's similar as to when dumpees keep their dumper close by, thinking that by doing so, then maybe they'll be taken back. You have to be ready to no longer have her in your life at all - a nothing to lose attitude. You want her as a girlfriend and nothing else will do. Can you do that? If so, then just tell her straight, but be aware that she could walk away forever.

 

I do agree with Katie in that everyone is different and there's no real rules for this. I know plenty of people that started off as friends and became more. One friend ended up dating her male chum after many years and is now happier than she's ever been. However, I think if you're unable to maintain a friendship as you constantly want more, than hanging around in hope will only end up hurting you. As a friend, you've got to be just a friend; which means hearing about them dating etc. If you can't do that, then you're not really a friend.

 

It always seems to go strangely for me, in that if a girl friend zones me, and if I stay around then eventually I friend zone them too. I've had it happen twice when it's been them that have started to want more, but I've not seen them in that way anymore. I've been unable to get back any of the feelings I previously had for them, so you have to understand that this girl may be the same, and despite the fact she may love being around you, any chance of having feelings for you may have long gone.

 

However, you won't know any of this unless you go find out...

[Versacehottie]

On our date I did all the usual things like opening car door, etc. but since then we've been meeting places like her house or my house or places near our work where we don't have to travel together. This is all hanging out one on one and texting a lot. After the date there was no talk or anything about just being friends. That's what has left me confused. I half feel like she's waiting for me to make a move but also half feel like she's not interested since she doesn't seem to indicate any interest when we're together. I guess I should try what you suggest and back off but I really hate any kind of games. I'm more of a "just tell me yes or no and get on with it" kind of guy. All the other stuff always seems like a huge waste of time but like you said maybe that's the only way to try for a reset in this situation. The problem might be I'm not sure what the real shot is that I should have done the first time. The only things I can come up with is I guess I should have kissed her on the first date and not hung out with her outside of proper dates. Both of those things seem a little off to me since with past girlfriends if we clicked we'd end up hanging out right away even though they weren't dates.

 

Ok, so about how many times have you hung out? I'll admit I'm confused at how you go from what is definitely a date and then both of you just don't discuss it, there is no sexual tension, no flirting. If it's only been less than 3-5 dates, I can kind of see it. And then you just need to step up the flirting, some touching etc. But if it's been more than that I think the new pattern of being friends seems established. Maybe because she wants it that way, who knows? I agree with smudge that it doesn't make sense to keep her in your life one way when you actually want her another. And then relationships actually unfold in many sorts of ways like katie said.

 

The part that I'm really confused about is how YOU let this happen. Do you think all you need to do is ask or call it a date and then it will just magically unfold like that? Or did you keep up the flirting, cute teasing, statements that were more romantic, future oriented on the date? And in the subsequent hangouts after that? Hang outs can be the best! You don't need to be on a date. The whole point is that if you are going to date or are dating, there is an underlying tone of sexual tension or flirting or romance pretty much always. Yes some friendships will turn to dating for sure but not until that tension is brewing. It can be there in a matter of hours and then the nature of the relationship will change or it can brew over a matter of months (probably even years). But what are you doing to put it there?

 

I have definitely been out with guys or hung around with guys who I knew wanted to date me BUT that did nothing to facilitate that feeling and didn't pick up on clues when I was doing the work for them. I don't know what to say but it gets real unsexy really fast. The point is that if you are on a "date" and you both know it, like your first one. The confident, not timid guy move, is to 100% treat it like one. Not back away from it and let her lead with everything because you have no game. That's what she will be noticing then: that you have no game. Being shy or nervous is different. I think lots of us girls have been around a shy guy who even he has SOME sort of game. It's like being a leader rather than a follower.

 

So now you've settled into hanging out and texting--sounds like you are still letting her lead. That sounds decent for friendship, boring for a guy you'd want to date. For all we know she could be wondering what happened as well and wishing you made a move. I need to know more about what the hang outs are like, what you talk about, frankly how they come about like that when the first thing was a date???? How long has this gone on like this?

 

I do think (even from your post to us, sorry) that you "don't put it out there enough". It's hard to tell what you really mean, a bit too vague. Maybe same thing is happening with her. Anyway, it boils down to since you like her you need to make a move of some sort (physical or verbal). take a leap. With either, especially physical i don't think you should just grab her and kiss her. Try to hug on her, touch her and linger, that kind of stuff and see if she likes it or doesn't. It's usually pretty apparent. I also think the same thing with the verbal that a big, over the top statement is not a style that would be best, IMO but it would work with some girls. You pepper in statements that show you think of her as more than a friend, see how she responds and if she seems open do more.

 

I wouldn't waste time on this over several dates. one or two max, as well as any texting you do in between. If you are getting positive responses from her, then swoop in with a paragraph statement of how you want to date her OR swoop in with a kiss. But you need to do the small steps with positive response first. OR you can just go out, get drunk and hyperspeed that up in a one date window. Like katie, i know several people that's how they got together. Good luck

[jen1447]

Just tell her "I dig you" and go from there if she gives you any room. And if she doesn't, be dignified about it - don't be butthurt but don't kiss her ass either.

[IslandDude]

Ok, so about how many times have you hung out? I'll admit I'm confused at how you go from what is definitely a date and then both of you just don't discuss it, there is no sexual tension, no flirting. If it's only been less than 3-5 dates, I can kind of see it. And then you just need to step up the flirting, some touching etc. But if it's been more than that I think the new pattern of being friends seems established. Maybe because she wants it that way, who knows? I agree with smudge that it doesn't make sense to keep her in your life one way when you actually want her another. And then relationships actually unfold in many sorts of ways like katie said.

 

The part that I'm really confused about is how YOU let this happen. Do you think all you need to do is ask or call it a date and then it will just magically unfold like that? Or did you keep up the flirting, cute teasing, statements that were more romantic, future oriented on the date? And in the subsequent hangouts after that? Hang outs can be the best! You don't need to be on a date. The whole point is that if you are going to date or are dating, there is an underlying tone of sexual tension or flirting or romance pretty much always. Yes some friendships will turn to dating for sure but not until that tension is brewing. It can be there in a matter of hours and then the nature of the relationship will change or it can brew over a matter of months (probably even years). But what are you doing to put it there?

 

I have definitely been out with guys or hung around with guys who I knew wanted to date me BUT that did nothing to facilitate that feeling and didn't pick up on clues when I was doing the work for them. I don't know what to say but it gets real unsexy really fast. The point is that if you are on a "date" and you both know it, like your first one. The confident, not timid guy move, is to 100% treat it like one. Not back away from it and let her lead with everything because you have no game. That's what she will be noticing then: that you have no game. Being shy or nervous is different. I think lots of us girls have been around a shy guy who even he has SOME sort of game. It's like being a leader rather than a follower.

 

So now you've settled into hanging out and texting--sounds like you are still letting her lead. That sounds decent for friendship, boring for a guy you'd want to date. For all we know she could be wondering what happened as well and wishing you made a move. I need to know more about what the hang outs are like, what you talk about, frankly how they come about like that when the first thing was a date???? How long has this gone on like this?

 

I do think (even from your post to us, sorry) that you "don't put it out there enough". It's hard to tell what you really mean, a bit too vague. Maybe same thing is happening with her. Anyway, it boils down to since you like her you need to make a move of some sort (physical or verbal). take a leap. With either, especially physical i don't think you should just grab her and kiss her. Try to hug on her, touch her and linger, that kind of stuff and see if she likes it or doesn't. It's usually pretty apparent. I also think the same thing with the verbal that a big, over the top statement is not a style that would be best, IMO but it would work with some girls. You pepper in statements that show you think of her as more than a friend, see how she responds and if she seems open do more.

 

I wouldn't waste time on this over several dates. one or two max, as well as any texting you do in between. If you are getting positive responses from her, then swoop in with a paragraph statement of how you want to date her OR swoop in with a kiss. But you need to do the small steps with positive response first. OR you can just go out, get drunk and hyperspeed that up in a one date window. Like katie, i know several people that's how they got together. Good luck

 

We've been on two "dates" where I have asked her out and I've picked her up and we've done things. First date we had dinner and then went to a baseball game. Talked the whole time, had fun. Second date was similar. Went and walked around the park, talked, joked around, had a little picnic for dinner. Nothing physical on either date which is where I'm now feeling like I messed up somehow.

 

We've "hung out" two times outside of that and both times she had her 10 year old daughter with her so I knew nothing physical would be happening but still wanted to hang out with her anyways.

 

I've asked her out a few more times via text to various things and twice now she has accepted acting excited only to later tell me she forgot she had something already scheduled with her kid those days. I totally understand that can happen with a child but at the same time she never suggests a reschedule or anything maybe because I always ask for specific things such as baseball games, etc. that don't happen every day.

 

So end result is she does at least keep coming back and talking to me all the time, I'm just not sure if there is anything more than friends there or not and am not sure if she knows I am interested in being more than friends although I would think she knows by now. I am throwing out fairly bold texts all the time when I see a chance for some flirting. Maybe she's thinking "he's all talk but nothing happened on our dates". Seems like she would just stop talking to me or asking me to hang out altogether but maybe she just really likes me as a friend only.

 

I guess my only option is to just keep trying for more dates and if she never accepts I'll write it off as just friends. I was just hoping I could come up with a way to make sure she knows how I feel without freaking her out too much if she's settled into the friends thing already.

[Porter56]

You're not going to freak her by telling her you like her. Unless you're weird about it.

 

Ok this is simple. Ask her to hangout. Don't worry about what to say or how to say it. Just come out and tell her that you like her as a lot more than a friend. Tell her you want to take her out again and call it a date when you say it. When you tell her be up front, speak clearly, look into her eyes and don't hesitate. Don't beat around the bush and act awkward or mumble or look down at your feet when you tell her. You need to use a tone of voice and body language that says "I like you and I want you". I agree with jen and my therapist(Versace).

 

Take it from me...you don't want to be like me lol

[Porter56]

Oh yeah btw...

 

Don't wait for more dates and hope it happens. That WILL NOT work. Quit being passive. Be a f***ing man. Tell her you like her or if you're alone touch her cheek and look in her eyes...you'll know if you have the go ahead for a kiss when you lock eyes.

 

Just try SOMETHING...don't wait.

[Versacehottie]

We've been on two "dates" where I have asked her out and I've picked her up and we've done things. First date we had dinner and then went to a baseball game. Talked the whole time, had fun. Second date was similar. Went and walked around the park, talked, joked around, had a little picnic for dinner. Nothing physical on either date which is where I'm now feeling like I messed up somehow.

 

We've "hung out" two times outside of that and both times she had her 10 year old daughter with her so I knew nothing physical would be happening but still wanted to hang out with her anyways.

 

I've asked her out a few more times via text to various things and twice now she has accepted acting excited only to later tell me she forgot she had something already scheduled with her kid those days. I totally understand that can happen with a child but at the same time she never suggests a reschedule or anything maybe because I always ask for specific things such as baseball games, etc. that don't happen every day.

 

So end result is she does at least keep coming back and talking to me all the time, I'm just not sure if there is anything more than friends there or not and am not sure if she knows I am interested in being more than friends although I would think she knows by now. I am throwing out fairly bold texts all the time when I see a chance for some flirting. Maybe she's thinking "he's all talk but nothing happened on our dates". Seems like she would just stop talking to me or asking me to hang out altogether but maybe she just really likes me as a friend only.

 

I guess my only option is to just keep trying for more dates and if she never accepts I'll write it off as just friends. I was just hoping I could come up with a way to make sure she knows how I feel without freaking her out too much if she's settled into the friends thing already.

 

Ok good it hasn't gone on forever of "hanging out". And I agree with her daughter there, there is really very little you can do. It's odd that she would bring her to me TBH.

 

Ok here's the other thing you can have talking the whole time and not be connecting in a romantic way. Connecting in a romantic way, however is your style, should really be the goal if you want to date the person and are ON a date with them. You don't want to let it slide into the friendzone. I don't make such a big deal of that as others do but it can be hard to get out of or impossible once the decision is made. I don't think you need to pounce on someone physically or pour your heart out either. I know several people who didn't even kiss for a while, ie after several/too many dates. The difference is all along they knew they were on a date. It was clear and there was good tension. Sweet things done, flirting, etc.

 

Sure you can understand this person is a single mom and maybe then for her it's not on the forefront of her goals but if she shifts the conversation to boring or routine things, at some point it is no longer a date. It's like support or a venting session or something. TBH, from what you have said so far, I'm not sure that she is interested. I lean that way but I also could be wrong. I don't think dating sounds like a priority to her now. Especially from a guy who will let it slide and still be around. Like jen said you don't want to act hurt if you are not getting what you want but you do want to take the lead more. How did you meet? Are you sure she knew the first two were dates?

 

My rec is that for now don't hang out with her and her daughter anymore until you guys are a solid couple. She found time and a way to go out with you the first two times. Don't accept sloppy seconds in light of how your relationship is going at the moment and what you need to do to change it. If you do keep seeing her under these conditions you will just cement the friendzone in my opinion. From what you are saying it's not like you are life long friends or have a deep connection yet, sounds like she is doing it to keep occupied or feel like she has some dating life or social life. I think you should try for another real date. This time keep it a more open activity like dinner which is not specific to a date and time. She should be trying to make something work IMO within a two week period if she has any interest in moving things along in the near future. If she is still stalling then it is not in her immediate plans or priority and you should pull back and let her coming chasing you (if she ever does). I'm 50/50 on how it will go. hard to tell. But proceed as if it will go well because your attitude and confidence does affect the outcome. Especially as it seems as if she has not made up her mind. Many, many people don't have the "end point" in mind when they date someone. So it's not like you've "lost" if she is being wishy-washy. You just need to manage your end the best and try to get some progression. Good luck

[IslandDude]

Ok good it hasn't gone on forever of "hanging out". And I agree with her daughter there, there is really very little you can do. It's odd that she would bring her to me TBH.

 

Ok here's the other thing you can have talking the whole time and not be connecting in a romantic way. Connecting in a romantic way, however is your style, should really be the goal if you want to date the person and are ON a date with them. You don't want to let it slide into the friendzone. I don't make such a big deal of that as others do but it can be hard to get out of or impossible once the decision is made. I don't think you need to pounce on someone physically or pour your heart out either. I know several people who didn't even kiss for a while, ie after several/too many dates. The difference is all along they knew they were on a date. It was clear and there was good tension. Sweet things done, flirting, etc.

 

Sure you can understand this person is a single mom and maybe then for her it's not on the forefront of her goals but if she shifts the conversation to boring or routine things, at some point it is no longer a date. It's like support or a venting session or something. TBH, from what you have said so far, I'm not sure that she is interested. I lean that way but I also could be wrong. I don't think dating sounds like a priority to her now. Especially from a guy who will let it slide and still be around. Like jen said you don't want to act hurt if you are not getting what you want but you do want to take the lead more. How did you meet? Are you sure she knew the first two were dates?

 

My rec is that for now don't hang out with her and her daughter anymore until you guys are a solid couple. She found time and a way to go out with you the first two times. Don't accept sloppy seconds in light of how your relationship is going at the moment and what you need to do to change it. If you do keep seeing her under these conditions you will just cement the friendzone in my opinion. From what you are saying it's not like you are life long friends or have a deep connection yet, sounds like she is doing it to keep occupied or feel like she has some dating life or social life. I think you should try for another real date. This time keep it a more open activity like dinner which is not specific to a date and time. She should be trying to make something work IMO within a two week period if she has any interest in moving things along in the near future. If she is still stalling then it is not in her immediate plans or priority and you should pull back and let her coming chasing you (if she ever does). I'm 50/50 on how it will go. hard to tell. But proceed as if it will go well because your attitude and confidence does affect the outcome. Especially as it seems as if she has not made up her mind. Many, many people don't have the "end point" in mind when they date someone. So it's not like you've "lost" if she is being wishy-washy. You just need to manage your end the best and try to get some progression. Good luck

 

Thanks everybody for all these tips. We met through mutual friends and have known each other for a little while just from parties and things but had never gone out alone before. I can only assume she knew they were dates. Even if she didn't know the first time I think after I paid for everything, opened doors, picked her up, etc. she would realize the second one was a date. Maybe she doesn't and that's why I'm confused. I do wonder if we had met on OLD or something where you know the other person is looking for romance if she would be behaving different. Maybe she's still trying to figure out if they were dates.

[Porter56]

No. She either thinks you're friends or she's waiting for you to make a move.

 

Do it soon or be prepared to babysit her kid for her when she goes on a date with another guy.

[Versacehottie]

No. She either thinks you're friends or she's waiting for you to make a move.

 

Do it soon or be prepared to babysit her kid for her when she goes on a date with another guy.

 

And/or I will add because I've seen this from a certain type of women of which perhaps she is one, she likes the attention, takes the dates but has no intention of moving things forward with you. She is getting validation and someone to lean on in the process. Yes, unfortunately these are the type of women who do things for a free dinner. There aren't many of them (not a high percentage). And it's not purely from a money point of view sometimes but they don't mind leading someone on for the impression that they are dating, dateable, like the attention and want someone to lean on.

 

I think it's weird that she texts you a lot but is slow to make things happen on her end, aka like another date without the kid (to me that indicates she is leaning on you or likes the attention). I think it's weird/inappropriate that she brought the kid (unless you already knew the kid from the mutual friend functions) (to me, that is like she is purposely putting a buffer in place so that she effectively strings you along). It's not like she's the worst person in the world or a bad person. But perhaps she's a "soft" user. One way to find out: make a move and root it out her real intentions by showing yours.

[stillyoung]

...The problem might be I'm not sure what the real shot is that I should have done the first time. The only things I can come up with is I guess I should have kissed her on the first date and not hung out with her outside of proper dates. Both of those things seem a little off to me since with past girlfriends if we clicked we'd end up hanging out right away even though they weren't dates.

 

Got anything in between? Like when you're in conversation, just look right into her eyes, just a second or two too long. Or like when you're saying good bye, put your hand on her shoulder, again maybe one second too long. Like it was an unconscious move. Not enough to be creepy, but enough that the idea gets into her head, oh he likes me like that. That's not really a game, it's more a little flirting move to test the waters, a harmless way to gauge her reaction. I just think if after this friend zone, if you tried to out and out kiss her, it might be awkward.

BTW, had this done to me. When it was unwanted, I could easily back out of it and he could sort of pretend it was nothing. If it was wanted, at least I got the message and I could escalate.

 

Or, of course, saying outright my intention is a date, is always a good move too.

[IslandDude]

Okay so I'm thinking there are two scenarios here:

1. She has lost interest because I didn't make a move yet and has decided we're friends. If this is the case she may not even accept another date where I could make a move.

 

2. She still likes me but thinks I am not into her and that I've made her a friend. In this case she may actually accept if I ask for another date that is clearly a date and not a hang out.

 

Unfortunately I don't really have anyway to tell which one it is. I guess I could text her and ask her for a sure date and if she accepts make sure to try something on the date to avoid #1. If she doesn't accept the date then I am debating if I should just say something so she at least knows I want to be more than friends even though this seems to result in certain doom from what I've read on here. I basically just want to know one way or another and bypass the whole "no contact and see if she calls you" deal.

 

Thoughts?

[Versacehottie]

Okay so I'm thinking there are two scenarios here:

1. She has lost interest because I didn't make a move yet and has decided we're friends. If this is the case she may not even accept another date where I could make a move.

 

2. She still likes me but thinks I am not into her and that I've made her a friend. In this case she may actually accept if I ask for another date that is clearly a date and not a hang out.

 

Unfortunately I don't really have anyway to tell which one it is. I guess I could text her and ask her for a sure date and if she accepts make sure to try something on the date to avoid #1. If she doesn't accept the date then I am debating if I should just say something so she at least knows I want to be more than friends even though this seems to result in certain doom from what I've read on here. I basically just want to know one way or another and bypass the whole "no contact and see if she calls you" deal.

 

Thoughts?

 

Yes I think this is fine. I wouldn't worry about what all the possible reasons on her end are (because there are many things it could be besides those two--there could be things which have nothing to do with you). Keep it simple. Do what you need to do (asking for what you want, asking for an explanation, telling her what you need to do) to get what you want. If she lets you know what is going on for her, THAT'S when you incorporate that into your strategy. But now since you don't know your goal is to take her on another real date or let her know your feelings and see where she stands. Period. Make it simple. Think positive and get out of your head. Good luck