These are always red flags

May 9, 2016

I now have codes I live by when I am encountering a person for the first time for any kind of get together. It doesn't matter by what means we met (internet or elsewhere), I know a few things are true by a certain point during the encounter.

1) Handshakes - If the man does not even offer a handshake when you first meet he's a socially awkward idiot.

2) Good-byes - If the man shakes your hand when you are saying your good-byes, he's not interested, he's saying "Good-bye, we are done." If the man takes the time to walk you halfway to your car then says good-bye either with a handshake or hug, he's saying the same thing. If he walks you to your car and gives you a hug good-bye, he's saying that he has enough courtesy to walk a woman to her car and be courteous enough to say good-bye in a civilized manner.

3) 48 hours - If you have not heard from him within the first 24/48 hours of the first get together, you will not hear from him again. You (as the woman) may think it's okay to reach out to him again, but it's not okay because women should not chase and I said I would never chase another again. He might call the woman a few days / a week afterward, you may have a second get together with him, but you will not see / hear from him again after that. He was just checking if you were waiting by the phone or maybe he was bored and didn't have anything else to do.

4) Communication method - He should CALL if he wants to see you again, not just send a text. Texting is a passive way of communication, calling is more direct.

If a man does not follow these criteria, I know where I stand and what this man is all about.

May 9, 2016

I would never shake a girls hand the first time I met her unless it was business.. if it was a date she would have gotten a hug..

First dates always get kissed in my world.. or they did when I was single that is..

If no kiss then there was never a second date...

I don't believe in the ole 48 hrs deal.. if it was a good date then when I was ready to set up another I would call her, whether it be 6 hrs or 72 hrs...

If I was intimate with her.. flowers the next day and a call also...

I agree about the calling and not texting but I'm older.. the newer generation male and female seem to think texting is okay..

May 9, 2016

I now have codes I live by when I am encountering a person for the first time for any kind of get together. It doesn't matter by what means we met (internet or elsewhere), I know a few things are true by a certain point during the encounter.

1) Handshakes - If the man does not even offer a handshake when you first meet he's a socially awkward idiot.

2) Good-byes - If the man shakes your hand when you are saying your good-byes, he's not interested, he's saying "Good-bye, we are done." If the man takes the time to walk you halfway to your car then says good-bye either with a handshake or hug, he's saying the same thing. If he walks you to your car and gives you a hug good-bye, he's saying that he has enough courtesy to walk a woman to her car and be courteous enough to say good-bye in a civilized manner.

3) 48 hours - If you have not heard from him within the first 24/48 hours of the first get together, you will not hear from him again. You (as the woman) may think it's okay to reach out to him again, but it's not okay because women should not chase and I said I would never chase another again. He might call the woman a few days / a week afterward, you may have a second get together with him, but you will not see / hear from him again after that. He was just checking if you were waiting by the phone or maybe he was bored and didn't have anything else to do.

4) Communication method - He should CALL if he wants to see you again, not just send a text. Texting is a passive way of communication, calling is more direct.

If a man does not follow these criteria, I know where I stand and what this man is all about.

Hmmmm, I mean no disrespect but I don't think your rules or guidelines will always work. They presume every guy with good intentions will act the same way--an arbitrary way you deemed "right". What a shame if you miss a good guy because of these silly guidelines. You need to rely on your own instincts and what you learn about the person. Good luck

May 9, 2016

I don't agree with the handshake greeting, rarely have I received a handshake at the start of a date. A casual hug yes, a handshake no.

And I have been chased after 48 hours of silence - but I did feel like it was game playing, and not so into it.

And I can't say anyone has ever ditched me half way to the car! Maybe they are all gentleman, but generally they have wanted to see me "safe" in my car, on the train, or through my front door. So, I guess I agree there, I would think that they were disinterested if they halfassed it. For the most part "successful" dates have included lots of lingering, and hoping it wasn't over yet!

May 9, 2016

I think it's good that you have rules / guidelines for yourself. They don't have to be universal but it's better to be true to yourself.

Yours mirrored mine. Although with DH he didn't kiss me for 3 dates. Then again I knew he was socially awkward. lol

May 9, 2016

Rigid, gender-specific rules are a red flag for me.

As for walking to the car, everyone I know does the following: Walk together to the closest car. That person drives the other person to their car. We do this whether on dates or not.

Texting and calling can both be active or passive. Initiating communication (through either method) is active. Waiting and responding is passive.

May 10, 2016

I agree about the calling and not texting but I'm older.. the newer generation male and female seem to think texting is okay..

Text is a weaker form of communication than a phone call in general. It's alright but a phone call is stronger.

Edited May 10, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

May 10, 2016

There's a lot of pressure for the man to make all the moves there - whether it be how he is from the initial meet up, to whether he kisses you, to whether he makes contact and does all the chasing. Now as much as you believe that's how it should be, there is shed loads of dating advice (I use the word lightly) where men are advised to do one thing or another, a lot of it contradicts itself quite often.

For starters, the first kiss thing - as a guy I wouldn't just jump in there everytime, it would depend on how the date had gone - on how she acted around me. My reaction to her, and also a kiss, would depend on how she'd been with me. Contact after the date can vary once again depending on how it has gone. So this idea that the guy should take the lead I believe is wrong as his choices are defined by how the woman has acted throughout the date.

In other words, I see it more a 50/50 thing. Oh and why shouldn't a woman chase, or at the very least take the lead. If one person wants something, they should feel confident to go out there and get it. If a woman is attracted to a guy but he's not making a move, don't immediately presume he's not interested. He could be shy or be coming off of relationships where his actions have got him burned.

I'm pretty sure most guys would make a move to kiss on the first date, but there's plenty of us that have not had a positive reception to that, in the same way when we've chased and been ghosted on. The more that happens, the less likely we are to make the efforts next time. Basically we're talking two complete strangers meeting for the first time, neither of which knows for sure what the other wants or is feeling... so someone has to step up. Why that should always just be the male is beyond me.

May 10, 2016

More than demonstrating interest, i think your list is just good manners. There is nothing wrong with desiring to date someone who is conscious of good manners, but I think, for better or for worse, ettiquete has dropped in importance in our society with the advent of the internet and smartphones. I was in church the other day watching several middle aged women texting non-stop throughout the (pitch black orthodox easter) service and realized this applies to older generations at this point too, not just the younger ones. So you may run into good guys with good intentions who are not able to meet your (generally reasonable) expectations for ettiquette because they are just clueless. Its your call how you want to proceed in those situations.

May 10, 2016

Handshakes are for business purposes unless you consider dating as a business meeting.

May 10, 2016

As a man, I would agree that almost all of these are accurate. Though, I would have to say that for me, the inverse does't always mean what you think it means.

1) Handshakes: Totally true but if a woman agreed to meet me on a date - even a coffee date - she's getting a hug even if I am not interested in her.

2) Goodbyes: Totally true but again for me, if she's agreed to meet me she's getting walked to her car/subway/bus even if I am not interested in her. It is just the courteous and gentlemanly thing to do.

3) Post date 48 hour contact: This is again, totally true. And in this case, if I am not interested in a woman I'd still contact her but let her know that there wasn't a match. Though, I am ashamed to say, I did ghost a couple of women....

4) Calling vs. Text: This is where you're wrong and you would have picked up false red flags from me. I'd have no issues texting and not calling. Most of the women I used to date were insanely busy and many were single moms. Texting for me was a sign that I respected her time and wanted to communicate with her in a non-intrusive manner.

May 10, 2016

I don't know about the handshake thing. I think I will be weirded out if a guy shook my hand on a date. I do agree with the not getting in contact with in 24 to 48 hours. I mostly agree with the texting versus calling thing. The only thing I would add to that is that, possibly, a guy might text because it would be easier to get a rejection that way.

May 10, 2016

I should have also included another code as it pertains to verbage. I have been out on a couple with these as well. I can also assure you that all stories are true, because, well, people are people. One internet date I had a few years ago was a textbook example of how the above codes define a person.

I arranged to meet a man at a bar/restaurant. When he go there, he comes up to me and says "Hello I'm (name), are you (name)?" I said yes. I was ready to at least shake hands of introduction, he did not extend his hand nor make a hugging gesture towards me, he just sat down. He also used some verbage that was the immediate killer towards anything happening. He said almost immediately that he was surprised that this came to be, of him and me meeting face to face. I asked why that was, he said he usually just talks to people online, he never actually meets them, but when I said "Yes I will meet you" to his offer, he said alright. He didn't have anything else to do that night anyway. Second red flag.

When we were done, I knew immediately that I was never going to hear from him again nor am I going to reach out to him. He didn't seem like a bad guy, but he struck me as being not weak but at least inconsiderate to me in this situation. We walked halfway through the parking lot, he asked where my car was, I pointed a few rows down. He put out his hand for a handshake and said "Good night." And that was that. I never heard from him again, I never reached out to him either. It's what it is.

But yes, I have been ditched in the parking lot or at the front door. There have been a few situations where the man gets to the front door and says "Bye" and walks away, never looking back. Talk about horrible. I've also been in actual relationships with men who are/were emotionally and verbally abusive towards me. All I can say about these situations is "Thank God". Because there are women out there who been in LTRs with them and they have done something REALLY HORRIBLE to them, right?

May 10, 2016

1) Handshakes - If the man does not even offer a handshake when you first meet he's a socially awkward idiot.

Serious question as an extremely socially awkward guy who's been in a successful relationship for almost 2 decades.

What makes a socially awkward idiot completely undateable?

May 10, 2016

Serious question as an extremely socially awkward guy who's been in a successful relationship for almost 2 decades.

What makes a socially awkward idiot completely undateable?

The person who is socially awkward is not comfortable around other people. There are situations where you have no choice but to be around others, even if it's strictly business. A person who is not comfortable talking to people is a person who does not have, quite honestly, balls. They run from social situations as they choose not to interact with them, but they have to be comfortable if they have no choice in the matter but to do so. Ultimately they will let me down - they make promises they don't intend to keep, they choose not to try, they avoid people not because they don't want to deal with people and their nonsense but because they do not like themselves enough to be around others (there is a difference). I have been with a few of them and they say that they don't like being around others, or they say they don't like my friends, or they find fault with others, etc. I have since found that people find a lot of fault with others rather than just accept it because they are not happy with themselves. I for one have always been a very casual type of person, I say "Whatever you're about, fine with me". Unfortunately for me, that doesn't sit well with others as I would like. Contrary to popular belief people are taught to be intolerant rather than tolerant, and the socially awkward person is usually the quickest to judge, I find.

May 11, 2016

Contrary to popular belief people are taught to be intolerant rather than tolerant, and the socially awkward person is usually the quickest to judge, I find.

What you said there is truth. Power to you for your insight and wisdom.

I sense I could have a real conversation with you any time of day, then give you a big hug after and then walk you to your car...*Big smile*

May 11, 2016

1) Handshakes - If the man does not even offer a handshake when you first meet he's a socially awkward idiot.

Or perhaps it's just that he has been taught and follows the rules of etiquette.

It's the woman's choice as to whether to she wishes to shake hands, and a gentleman waits for her to offer her hand first. A man who sticks out his hand to a woman is being pushy and presumptuous. If she offers it's an indication of respect and acceptance, but if she doesn't it should not be taken as rejection because it's optional, and it's her choice.

I was taught such rules of etiquette early, as in grade school. Most women seem to either know it or get it intuitively as I usually do shake a woman's hand, and I never offer my hand first.

Between same sex people, it's the older or higher status person that offers. In business situations a handshake is the standard greeting, who goes first is less defined, and it seems that everyone tends to extend hands simultaneously.

There might be a few "if this, then that" assumptions that always hold true, but reducing social interactions to these hard and fast rules, as if it couldn't possibly be any other way, is way too rigid. My suggestion would be to make less assumptions overall, and in cases where you must make them, base them on the preponderance of all the clues with the understanding that you still don't know exactly what anyone else is thinking or why.

May 11, 2016

The person who is socially awkward is not comfortable around other people. There are situations where you have no choice but to be around others, even if it's strictly business. A person who is not comfortable talking to people is a person who does not have, quite honestly, balls. They run from social situations as they choose not to interact with them, but they have to be comfortable if they have no choice in the matter but to do so. Ultimately they will let me down - they make promises they don't intend to keep, they choose not to try, they avoid people not because they don't want to deal with people and their nonsense but because they do not like themselves enough to be around others (there is a difference). I have been with a few of them and they say that they don't like being around others, or they say they don't like my friends, or they find fault with others, etc. I have since found that people find a lot of fault with others rather than just accept it because they are not happy with themselves. I for one have always been a very casual type of person, I say "Whatever you're about, fine with me". Unfortunately for me, that doesn't sit well with others as I would like.

You get all this from lack of a handshake?

Contrary to popular belief people are taught to be intolerant rather than tolerant, and the socially awkward person is usually the quickest to judge, I find.

Ah, the irony. This has to be one of the most hypocritical posts I've seen in quite some time. Here you are judging socially awkward people as being quick to judge. 'I suggest you reflect on your high judgment levels before criticising others based on nothing more than a handshake and an assumption.

Lastly, I agree with the poster who says that it's good etiquette for the woman to offer her hand first in social situations. If he doesn't offer to shake your hand, it means that he has good manners.

Give me a socially awkward person any day over one who judges them.

Edited May 11, 2016 by basil67

May 11, 2016

There's a lot of pressure for the man to make all the moves there - whether it be how he is from the initial meet up, to whether he kisses you, to whether he makes contact and does all the chasing. Now as much as you believe that's how it should be, there is shed loads of dating advice (I use the word lightly) where men are advised to do one thing or another, a lot of it contradicts itself quite often.

For starters, the first kiss thing - as a guy I wouldn't just jump in there everytime, it would depend on how the date had gone - on how she acted around me. My reaction to her, and also a kiss, would depend on how she'd been with me. Contact after the date can vary once again depending on how it has gone. So this idea that the guy should take the lead I believe is wrong as his choices are defined by how the woman has acted throughout the date.

In other words, I see it more a 50/50 thing. Oh and why shouldn't a woman chase, or at the very least take the lead. If one person wants something, they should feel confident to go out there and get it. If a woman is attracted to a guy but he's not making a move, don't immediately presume he's not interested. He could be shy or be coming off of relationships where his actions have got him burned.

I'm pretty sure most guys would make a move to kiss on the first date, but there's plenty of us that have not had a positive reception to that, in the same way when we've chased and been ghosted on. The more that happens, the less likely we are to make the efforts next time. Basically we're talking two complete strangers meeting for the first time, neither of which knows for sure what the other wants or is feeling... so someone has to step up. Why that should always just be the male is beyond me.

Well, there are plenty of guys who do have the confidence to run with the ball and make things happen rather than sitting back and expecting the woman to do all the heavy lifting. And it goes without saying that the way the woman acted on the date will dictate whether the guy picks up the ball and makes another date happen or not. It's not rocket science.

And for every guy who wants to sit back and expect the woman to ask him out, there is one who won't - and he'll be the one out on a Saturday night.

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These are always red flags

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