Feeling desperate

May 10, 2016

You know what's worst then Kids that came from a broken home? Kids in a broken home.

Your kids will find out sooner or later that Daddy had a side piece and they'll drop you like a bad habit and loose respect for you. You either suck it up now or you'll end up alone. Trust me on that.

I'm not saying give your wife all the details but tell her what really happened. And yes you choose to talk to the OW. You can NC, but you're a cake eater.

May 10, 2016

Actually she didn't stick around, once she found out he couldn't leave his wife for her. He couldn't take that step, so she bailed.

I saw that.

Earlier this year, my wife discovered that I had been having an affair for 2 years with a work colleague.

Only it took her 2 years to finally bail..but, then again I suppose it's kind of typical as the "infatuation stage" usually lasts about 6 months up to 2 years.

Good for her to finally realize that she was wasting her time and deserves better than a cheat and a lie. As does his wife.

OP, I said this to another poster that is in a similar sitch as you....you have done the damage, your wife will NEVER love you the same again, and you will NEVER get that kind of love back, she may still love you but she will NEVER look at you the same way again, never have that aww inspiring "so in love" feeling for you - how could she? You chose another woman over her! Same with the OW, you chose the wife over her!..how could she look at you the same? Both women have lost respect for you, both women have lost admiration for you. It will be very hard if not impossible to get that back from either one of them, once it's gone..it's pretty much gone, and never the same again, so.......

May 10, 2016

Everything you describe is so passive. "I found myself unfulfilled," "I couldn't bring myself to end things," etc.

Our marriage has only ever involved us growing further apart, I can't see how we would reverse that movement, let alone find the level of reconciliation necessary to heal.

If you jump from your marriage into a relationship with this other woman, you will remain the same, my friend. You will not cease to be a passive person who allows things to "happen" to you and wonders how in the world one grows apart from one's spouse while choosing to do different activities, have affairs, and lie about them. Only in this case, you will be trading in a woman you describe as selfless, great, and caring, who has chosen to work on the marriage despite what you have put her through (more than once, no less) for someone who goes for married guys with nary a qualm. So my guess would be that without the selfless sainthood of your current wife, your next marriage will be even less likely to remain passionate and fulfilling without any effort on your part.

Your marriage doesn't fulfill you. You fulfill you within the framework of your marriage. Do I think you should recommit yourself to your marriage? Honestly, no. I think your wife deserves better. She deserves a man who honors his commitments, who puts others first, who takes ownership and charge of his own life. And currently, that's not you. Maybe it can be someday. Keep up with the counseling.

My husband had an affair. We too had grown apart. I developed a chronic illness that keeps me from participating in his many activities. He found a woman who enjoys those same things. I deigned to give him a second chance, and through counseling, he has begun to address his poor coping skills, his selfishness, and his trouble with empathy. If he weren't all in, if he were still lying and hiding a relationship with the OW, then no way. Stop wasting my time. I've done my part. I've been an honorable wife who acts in good faith. If he can't turn things around and do and be the same, then good riddance. I think it's time for you to start acting in good faith. That means being honest. This will force your hand, which is really what you want, right? You're just scared. But if you tell her the truth, she'll either realize you are a lost cause, and you can ride off into the sunset with your OW. Or, you will begin rebuilding in good faith. You cannot rebuild on lies. You tried that, and look where you are. You dug yourself deeper. YOU did that. It didn't happen to you. So stop digging and start building, either with your wife or without her. But whatever you do, honor her good faith to you by being honest from this point forward.

You get out of a relationship what you put in. If you put half the energy you put romancing your OWs into your marriage, you'd be surprised at where it would get you. But the thing you should put most of your energy into right now is yourself. You are responsible for your choices, for your fulfillment, for your integrity.

May 10, 2016

heartwhole, you are on a roll today. This is one of several of your posts that has made me think long and hard and I find myself nodding at so much of what you say.

I understand a little of where the OP is coming from. Yes, it is totally our fault that we get into an affair and mess up our own minds to the point that we don't recognise ourselves any more or know what we want. It is our fault, but sometimes it really does feel like somehow it just "happened" to us - avoidance and escapism I guess, but I do understand and have some sympathy and I know it's a horrible place to be and that you just want the pain to go away. I agree that the OP should work on himself - his mind is all over the place and twisting his reality. He can't think objectively about his marriage while he has contact with the AP. I think he needs to at minimum go NC with the AP, do an awful lot of soul searching and be more honest with his wife (not necessarily revealing every detail). I think it will only be after several weeks or months of NC that he will even know whether he is able to give 100% to the marriage and by then his wife might have had other ideas.

He could try to make a start with the OW - that is unchartered, unknown, risky territory guaranteed to cause pain to those that he leaves behind. It could work out for them - they sometimes do, but it could lead to even more heartache to everyone.

I know it's a horrible limbo that you are in OP, but try to use your head to think through all the possibilities very seriously before you do something you may regret.

Good luck. We are here.

May 10, 2016

If you do plan on trying to make a go of it with your wife, once again, telling her about the A will stand you in good stead.

There will be a lot of heavy lifting to do, and to do that, you with both need to start on a level laying field of honesty. Having such an extreme secret can make it difficult to get close to your wife.

Btw, that secret could be a big part of the emotional weight you are giving tot he A. Feeling like co conspirators and "star crossed lovers" who could be together if only....

that can really bind two people together, and if there are any issues, you both have a built in excuse for them. Once that relationship is out in the open and having to face day to day challenges, it might not be the close bond you think it is.

May 11, 2016

As a wife...I wouldnt want to know.

I love my husband with every inch of me but if I KNEW he would be happier outside the marriage, Id let him go.

It would be sad but Id let him go so we could both find new love and fulfilled life.

But...if were already hanging by a thread and likely to end and are already roomates...WHY wreck my world that you cheated and devastate me when were already not happy and on the verge of divorce?

All these tell tell tell people...Follow YOUR heart. You get one life.

May 11, 2016

You seemed determined to throw your children’s mother under the bus so you can have your utopia with the OW.

Will you give us an update in a year from now?

Others may learn from your choices

May 11, 2016

I'd like to point out some contradictions in your first thread and in some of the advice you've been getting. I'm going to try to be brief because it's late for me, it's mostly all been said, and because I want to leave the emphasis on letting your wife decide what she wants to do once she's got all the information.

It's late, as I said. So briefly: You give any number of excuses for not telling your wife the whole truth - that you don't want to mess up lives, she'll get even angrier and more strident, your kids will be disappointed in you, you'll have to move. Yet you're ashamed, chagrined mostly at being found out; I don't really see any true sympathy.

So I ticked them all off the list of typical insincere things a WW thinks and says to minimize culpability and avoid facing the music.

I'm saying this briefly also to get you to focus on the fact that, by telling her everything - not just what you think she can handle - you'll get your release, your freedom. It's just that you'll look worse, which is what you've been trying to avoid by controlling information.

[it never ceases to amaze me that you people actually believe the damage is in the telling, not in the actual infidelities.]

Okay, to the final point - contradictions in the advice you've been getting. This is very important because you might read a couple of posts that say to go ahead and curtail the truth for damage control and all the other reasons you already think and desperately want to hear. Well here's why they're invalid: Read the background of those posters. I did. They are NOT writing from experience. They are both APs who were in their own affairs. So how can they know? In fact, what they're saying is simply not dependable and - from my (unfortunately) 100% qualified experience - dead wrong.

I'm not saying that OW/OMs cannot be empathic to the point of understanding what a BS feels. I've seen - well, to be perfectly honest - maybe one on LS. But nevermind: Theoretically it is possible.

The most disrespectful, hurtful thing you can do to a BS is to continue to lie, dissemble, and try to control what information she hears. I've read a very few on LS who didn't want to know, but the vast majority did. I did. And I think your wife does, too.

May 11, 2016

As a wife...I wouldnt want to know.
I love my husband with every inch of me but if I KNEW he would be happier outside the marriage, Id let him go.
It would be sad but Id let him go so we could both find new love and fulfilled life.
But...if were already hanging by a thread and likely to end and are already roomates...WHY wreck my world that you cheated and devastate me when were already not happy and on the verge of divorce?
All these tell tell tell people...Follow YOUR heart. You get one life.

All theory. If you haven't been there and experienced what you're talking about, then it's just more of the distorted, entitled thinking and rationalizing that allowed you to do the same thing, isn't it?

May 11, 2016

I also wonder if the people saying not to tell his wife even read his post carefully because she already knows about the affairs, she just doesn't know the extent or that the most recent one has continued as an EA. So it's not as though she doesn't know about the infidelity already. But he has been staying in the marriage under false pretenses, and the only reason not to come clean about that is "damage control" for the OP. His wife would benefit from having all the facts so she can make an informed decision about her life, which the OP has hijacked by keeping important information to himself. Apparently the idea that it might be more difficult to coparent with a woman who has valid reason to be disgusted with you is justification for more lying in OP's eyes. The answer could never to be become less disgusting oneself; the answer rather is to hide one's disgusting actions from those who would rightly be offended . . .

There are two ways to live life. One is to do whatever the heck one wants (have affairs, lie, etc), and then to go back and construct "justifications" for these actions. The other is to take ownership of one's life, to make solid decisions based on one's ideals, thus never needing to build a house of cards to justify unconscionable actions. OP has done the former for so long he can't find a way to the latter.

If you are actually interested in doing right by all people involved in your love triangle, let us know. If you just want us to connect the dots from A to B so that you can take something despicable and wrap it up like it's something honorable, that's something you'll need to do yourself. It sounds like that's what you've been doing all along. Only now, you'll have to face the music. Only now, everyone will know. You are beginning to realize that the shiny wrapping paper doesn't mask the putrid scent of rotting flesh underneath. I think your guilt is mainly your self-interest realizing you are about to garner public disdain.

May 11, 2016

Ok, so when My H was in the middle of his A..his friends and his family were all giving him the right justifications..."you only live once" you have to "do what makes you happy", "follow your heart"...blah blah blah..in fact there was one person and only one that actually told him to man up and quit being a coward..I love that man dearly!! and he is the only one of my H's friends and family that I have any respect for. The rest of his family can kiss my A$$!

But of course everyone else that he confided in was telling him what he wanted to hear, so.....

When I found out....Well, Go, choke on the greener grass. You think I want someone who stays out of obligation or guilt? No way! Go be happy. Which is exactly what I told him..only he called the very next day bawling..please Baby, Baby please...yeah, no thanks! This marriage is NOT a prison, I am NOT the warden!! and you were so miserable and the new girl was just soooo caring and understanding, so...bye bye now. Guess he wasn't expecting that. So, I'm going to say this to you.

Go!! Be happy! Go get the grrener grass! LOL..BUT, man up and quit being a coward about it. If the OW is what you really want - take the consequences and go get it!

I'm sure your wife does not want a man that stays with her only because of obligation and guilt, or worse cowardice!! while continuing to have an A behind her back.

Edited May 11, 2016 by gemini6

May 11, 2016

I have thought about this and it is quite possibly true. I know I am holding back a lot, and 'playing a part' with her rather than being completely honest about who I am and what I have done. We don't even argue really, at least not until recently, and when we are with together as a family, everything seems good - noone could tell we have such problems. I just don't know if I can get beyond these feelings to reconnect or even if I really want to. Don't get me wrong, I wish I had never been unfaithful and fallen in love, but part of me thinks that the marriage was always going to fail at some point as we had grown so far apart.

Abandonallhope:

It does not sound as if you are happy.

The fact that you never argue is not a good sign. It is healthy to argue. The fact that neither you nor your wife were arguing PRIOR to your affair shows how majorly disconnected you both were.

I just don't know if I can get beyond these feelings to reconnect or even if I really want to.

If you feel that way, trust yourself.

It is not fair to you or your wife to continue a marriage in which neither one of you is connecting and you feel that you can never be IN LOVE with her again.

Even during my affair, I never felt that I was not in love with my wife. So if you felt you no longer loved your wife, perhaps that is real.

Sometimes a marriage just does not work out. It is nothing to be ashamed of and if someone is shaming you for that, avoid them.

That is why divorce is legal. Even the courts do not believe that a spouse should stay and martyr themselves in a miserable disconnected marriage.

It is unlikely that your wife has done nothing to stimulate the disconnect.

If she is riding the high horse of perfection and refusing to address issues caused by her that may have contributed to the disconnect, than you need to address this with your Marriage Counselor.

You do not sound like a psychopath or a disordered Narcissistic. You sound as if you are very concerned and caring, but also very unhappy with your wife.

Counseling will hopefully, help both of you see the part you BOTH played in the disconnect so that you can finally RECONNECT.

Both disloyal and loyal spouses tend to blameshift after an affair. If your wife is refusing to see her part in the disconnect, than that is likely why you sought out someone else to feel close to. ...Someone you said you felt you could open up to in a way you can not open up to your wife.

If your wife is acting as if she has done you a favor to stay in the marriage, than that alone is likely reason to address her failure to take a good hard look at her own behavior in the marriage.

Acting as if she has done you a favor by taking you back is not love, it is not a healthy type of marriage when one partner feels morally superior and attempts to make the other feel immoral or inferior. It will not hold up to the test of time.

I am lucky in that my wife is an intelligent to see how she fully contributed to our disconnected marriage.

If you feel as if you can not open up to your wife, the way you opened up to the OW.....still, even after counseling, IMO, that is not a good sign.

In the end, you do have to make your own decision.

Marriage is not a prison and if no one is obligated to stay in an UNhappy marriage.

May 11, 2016

His wife would benefit from having all the facts so she can make an informed decision about her life, which the OP has hijacked by keeping important information to himself.

I'm a fWW who reconciled with my H. I told him everything. Was it easy? No. It hurt him immeasurably. I saw first hand his pain and anger and disgust with me, all caused by my own actions.

The above quote describes my H. During my A, he made a big career decision. He told me later that if had known of my affair, he would've made a different decision. My husband didn't make his decision based on truth...he made it based on what he thought was the truth. That is what your wife is doing now. Doesn't she, the mother of your children, deserve to make her choices based on all the facts?

My H and I are still together, six years after d-day. We talked through everything...the affair, our relationship, everything. It was really, really hard, however after a lot of work on both our parts we have come out on the other side stronger and healthier. Do I wish we got here without the destruction of my A? Heck yes. But unfortunately I cannot go back in time.

You have a choice right now, today. Do you want to continue in your life being a person who lies? Hides things? Someone who takes the easy road even if it hurts others? Or do you want to be a person with integrity and respect?

You can become a person who lives with integrity and respect. It will take work and pain and dealing with the consequences of your actions. It will take looking in the mirror and telling yourself, you are the bad guy. You hurt people. It will not be a cakewalk. Trust me. I've looked in that exact same mirror.

But I am so much healthier and happier now than I was 6-7 years ago, when in the A. My marriage is so much better, I have nothing to hide, and I share everything with my H. He is my partner in life. We now have a son who has brought me more joy than I thought was possible.

Please think about who you want to be moving forward in your life, not what you want in your life. Think about who you want you children to see you as. Then make a choice based on that, not on what you want right now. Good luck.

May 12, 2016

Abandonallhope:

You do not sound like a psychopath or a disordered Narcissistic. You sound as if you are very concerned and caring, but also very unhappy with your wife.

.

You don't have to be a disordered narcissist or a psychopath to have an affair. All you need to be is selfish and thinking only of yourself.

You also don't need to be either of those two things to have more than one affair, and to pretend to have ended the second when, in fact, you have not. All you need for that is to be a selfish coward.

While neither of those are admirable traits, they do not have to define you. You have the ability and capacity to grow and be a bigger person by admitting you have messed up and taking responsibility for it. That means manning up, admitting the truth to your wife, and deciding, as a couple, how you want to proceed.

That might mean the marriage ending, that might mean reconciling. That is up to the two of you.

If you have to put it into some context, think of your children as grown adults. If one of them was in the position of your wife, what would you want for them? Would you want them to muddle along through the dark, or would you want them to have all he facts so they can be in control of their lives?

Underneath all of this, you are likely not a bad guy, but you have really lost your way It's time to start finding your way back to clarity again.

May 12, 2016

That's not necessarily true.

I know plenty of people married together 30, 40 and 50 years. Many don't enjoy their spouse at all. They stay married because that's what they were taught...even if it means they are unhappy.

And many that are happy in long term marriages.

But don't assume just because they stay married it is happy.

Of course there is never only one answer but I would love it if you (or anyone) can define a happy marriage. I sure as hell cannot! Am I happy? Not always. I am contented and I have moments of happiness (that is the nature of happiness). I believe my H is the same. Therefore so is my marriage,

A lot of our lives is mundane and repetitive - work, housework, childcare, bills .....repeat. That is the nature of domestic life and it can provide it's own contentment. But happiness comes from inside us not from anywhere else. I am a life-long depressive - I am on more or less permanent ADs and it has made me super-aware of my moods dipping and rising. This happens with no or minimal input from the outside world - it is in my head. I don't believe it is that different with anyone else. Joy comes from within.

I believe that consistently discontented people can make others less happy - ditto abusive, angry, violent people but most people aren't like that, they are just ordinary people getting by the best they can.

A 'happy' marriage therefore comes from two happy people - people who have made themselves 'happy'. If you aren't happy, leaving to be with someone else isn't going to make you miraculously happy long-term. Of course there will be that honeymoon period but once that starts to fade you will be left with the same old unhappy self still with no ability to manufacture that joy for yourself.

Take it from an old fart who has seen many good and bad times - when I am happy it is because I made it so. Am I married to my 'soul-mate' ? Bugger that! I am married to a decent, funny, loving man who has my back. Everything else comes from me.

May 12, 2016

Hi Abandon,you have been given a lot of good advice by well meaning people on this forum. The fact is that you cannot avoid or evade the looming difficult situation of having to tell your wife about the full extent of your affair/s. Yes you will hurt her immensely and earn her scorn but, on the other hand, there is no use flogging a dead horse. You know your marriage is dead. Give your wife the facts and tell her that you are going to leave so that the two of you can find happiness with others. You can only go through the problem and come out on the other side, singed maybe, but intact enough to carry on with your life. It will be the same with your wife.

Just think about it! Warm wishes.

May 12, 2016

Hi Abandon,you have been given a lot of good advice by well meaning people on this forum. The fact is that you cannot avoid or evade the looming difficult situation of having to tell your wife about the full extent of your affair/s. Yes you will hurt her immensely and earn her scorn but, on the other hand, there is no use flogging a dead horse. You know your marriage is dead. Give your wife the facts and tell her that you are going to leave so that the two of you can find happiness with others. You can only go through the problem and come out on the other side, singed maybe, but intact enough to carry on with your life. It will be the same with your wife.

If he is going to leave, then why does she need all the facts? So she can have nightmares, triggers and flashbacks about all the stuff he and his OWs got up to for the rest of her life?

All the gory details - all the times he chose his OW over her, all the times he told her her loved her and then went out for the milk and had a BJ 5 mins later in the OWs car... all the times they had sex in the marital bed... "Remember that lovely necklace I bought you for our anniversary, the one you were so pleased about, well I bought the same one for my OW 6 months earlier..."

A great leaving present that...

She already knows he has stepped out of the marriage twice, he doesn't need to make her more miserable to assuage his guilt. He may feel better getting it all off his chest but I doubt she will thank him for that.

Reconciliation - agree totally get it all out there, nothing worse than trickle truthing, but as for leaving it is a totally different situation.

Giving her huge punches to the gut as he walks out the door, what good will that do her?

May 12, 2016

If he is going to leave, then why does she need all the facts? So she can have nightmares, triggers and flashbacks about all the stuff he and his OWs got up to for the rest of her life?
All the gory details - all the times he chose his OW over her, all the times he told her her loved her and then went out for the milk and had a BJ 5 mins later in the OWs car... all the times they had sex in the marital bed... "Remember that lovely necklace I bought you for our anniversary, the one you were so pleased about, well I bought the same one for my OW 6 months earlier..."
A great leaving present that...

She already knows he has stepped out of the marriage twice, he doesn't need to make her more miserable to assuage his guilt. He may feel better getting it all off his chest but I doubt she will thank him for that.
Reconciliation - agree totally get it all out there, nothing worse than trickle truthing, but as for leaving it is a totally different situation.
Giving her huge punches to the gut as he walks out the door, what good will that do her?

This could be very true, expect for the fact that she knows he's already had two affairs, and he's been lying to his bw, telling her he wanted to reconcile and move forward, while he's been continuing the A behind her back the whole time.

It's not her fault it was a false reconciliation, but if she doesn't know the truth she may end up feeling like it was all her fault, like she didn't try hard enough. Knowing the truth will help her realize there was nothing could could have done, or not have done, to reconcile her M.

May 12, 2016

This could be very true, expect for the fact that she knows he's already had two affairs.

Not sure it matters, but she only knows about the most recent affair. The OP has decided for her that she shouldn't know about the other.

My wife is a great person, selfless and caring, she is liked by just about everyone.

I don't get any sense that you've asked yourself why this isn't enough? And what you'll do if, post limerence, your OW doesn't measure up to this very high standard in a new relationship?

Mr. Lucky

May 12, 2016

This could be very true, expect for the fact that she knows he's already had two affairs, and he's been lying to his bw, telling her he wanted to reconcile and move forward, while he's been continuing the A behind her back the whole time.
It's not her fault it was a false reconciliation, but if she doesn't know the truth she may end up feeling like it was all her fault, like she didn't try hard enough. Knowing the truth will help her realize there was nothing could could have done, or not have done, to reconcile her M.

Exactly! I experienced False R and in that moment I realized his A with MOW was NEVER about me. It was actually a relief because I had blamed myself for so long about his LTA.

May 12, 2016

I believe you already know what to do, to do the right thing. What are they?

1. Be open with your wife everything, even though it is hard. From you

writing I can tell she is not going run away from you, but willing to work

it out, even though it is hard on her part also.

2. Get a new job. That may not be what you want or you want from the other

women.

3. Know that everything change once a couple say "I do." So, it may feel

good and want more while you are having affair. Would that last once you

say "I do" to this woman? I doubt, and I would not be wrong to say, you

will regret that you left your wife for this "wonderful" woman.

4. Be honest with yourself and do the right thing, it may be difficult at

first, but it will work out. It is not all about yourself. In any

relationship it take two. In your case, there are children involved also.

What is best for all of you and be content

May 12, 2016

I'd also like to point out that if the OP leaves his wife for the OW, unless he waits years and years to pick back up with the OW, surely the BW will figure out that the affair was more than a small blip that ended when he said it did. So what continued lies accomplish, I just don't see.

May 12, 2016

'Originally Posted by abandonallhope View Post

My wife is a great person, selfless and caring, she is liked by just about everyone.

I don't get any sense that you've asked yourself why this isn't enough? And what you'll do if, post limerence, your OW doesn't measure up to this very high standard in a new relationship?'

This stands out. I know affair stats are unreliable but I read ( Shirley Glass maybe) that a survey of men married to their OW for 5 years showed that 85% of them said if they had their time over, they would not have left the previous marriage. They said their new marriage was not, after 5 years, better than the previous one and the accompanying upheaval had not really been worth it.

Also. But and read Alain de Boton' new novel ( he's a British popular philosopher) 'The Course of Love' before you make any further decisions. If your wife is as nice as you say, the marriage shouldn't be over. It's all on you and stuff that exists in your head.

May 12, 2016

If he is going to leave, then why does she need all the facts? So she can have nightmares, triggers and flashbacks about all the stuff he and his OWs got up to for the rest of her life?
All the gory details - all the times he chose his OW over her, all the times he told her her loved her and then went out for the milk and had a BJ 5 mins later in the OWs car... all the times they had sex in the marital bed... "Remember that lovely necklace I bought you for our anniversary, the one you were so pleased about, well I bought the same one for my OW 6 months earlier..."
A great leaving present that...

She already knows he has stepped out of the marriage twice, he doesn't need to make her more miserable to assuage his guilt. He may feel better getting it all off his chest but I doubt she will thank him for that.
Reconciliation - agree totally get it all out there, nothing worse than trickle truthing, but as for leaving it is a totally different situation.
Giving her huge punches to the gut as he walks out the door, what good will that do her?

I can't argue with your viewpoint Elaine, I think it's very rational. But I would like to assure you I never gave him BJs in my car nor ever went anywhere near his family home, let alone his marital bed! I am not a character in a Jackie Collins novel.

May 12, 2016

I can't argue with your viewpoint Elaine, I think it's very rational. But I would like to assure you I never gave him BJs in my car nor ever went anywhere near his family home, let alone his marital bed! I am not a character in a Jackie Collins novel.

Why does it matter what location you gave blow jobs in? You were still giving them to someone else's husband.

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