I am not sure how to handle this, [advice] needed!

[TO4]

I have been dating this girl for 5 months (I am a male), exclusively in a relationship. I think she is really beautiful and smart but there are a few issues that keep popping up. I am 27 and she is 22.

 

She can be really condescending, critical, vulgar and can speak in a really bad tone to me. I've told her that I do not appreciate the direct cursing at me and that I don't like when she speaks to me in a belittling tone when she speaks to me. She has been trying to change but says she can only change so much because those aspects are just part of her personality. It really bugs me and she's gotten better but when she starts talking in a tone toward me and I tell her to stop, she gets very mad at me because she feels as if I am criticizing her and that I don't accept her for being "rough around the edges." The last time i told her to stop yelling at me and speaking to me so rudely, she lost it, started yelling at me over the phone, said my complaints "were fnng stupid" and started crying saying she is so stressed. She apologized the next morning.

 

Another issue is her dog. To make something clear, I like her dog and give her dog attention, take her dog for walks and even buy her dog treats. I've told her if we are in bed together in order to get intimate I'd appreciate it if the dog was not on the bed and if she'd wash her face & hands after touching and being licked by the dog. She said she can't because her dog gets sad, so I've never had sex at her place because the dog is ALWAYS on the bed when we are on the bed. She calls the dog her baby. One time I requested that she washed her face after the dog licked her face before we started kissing, she refused, said it was barely a lick but that she would wash her hands and "meet me half way." This lead to an argument because I thought it was ridiculous and I left her house. The last time I was over there, the dog left her bed and she was giving oral sex and the dog walked back in the room, and she stopped what she was doing and asked if she could put her dog back on the bed and that was the end of that. According to her, her therapist told her not to meet me all the way on her dog because otherwise my requests would keep growing.

 

I just don't understand, I feel like I have very basic requests. Keep in mind, she is on the border of being bipolar according to her psychiatrist and she DOES NOT TAKE HER MEDS because she feels as if she doesn't need them as she's only very slightly bipolar. I know I made her sound bad, but she can be incredibly caring, loving and generous.

 

I told her I needed space for a week and I've been debating whether or not to end it with her or try and fix things but I don't feel like I can talk to her and be heard. Been thinking about things for the last few days and just need advice.

Edited May 7, 2016 by TO4

[ExpatInItaly]

This girl isn't ready for an adult relationship. She has a lot of maturing to do, and while I am a dog-lover myself, her behaviour regarding her dog is plain bizarre. She is also rude, given the language she uses with you.

 

I would find someone else who behaves like an adult.

[Buddhist]

Well here's some thoughts....

 

- Aside from everything else she's 22. Barely an adult and probably in her head still a teenager. The overly emotional expression, cursing and out of the control stuff is probably to be expected to some extent. Notice how I say some extent.

 

- Your are 27, a fully grown adult who is probably entering a more mature aspect of your life. Her behaviours and lack of emotional maturity here is going to rub you up the wrong way.

 

- She has an issue which she is not attending to. In fact she's wilfully denying it. That is not likely to change, at all.

 

Your choices are limited I'm afraid. You can't love her into someone else. I know people think this is possible and every breakup usually entails some kind of trying to love someone into a better space. It just doesn't work that way. People create relationships that reflect where they presently are. If this is not the relationship you want, your only option is to walk.

[jessicastevens]

Just stop for a second and listen to yourself.

 

She can be really condescending, critical, vulgar and can speak in a really bad tone to me.

she gets very mad at me because she feels as if I am criticizing her and that I don't accept her for being "rough around the edges."

She calls the dog her baby.

her therapist told her not to meet me all the way on her dog because otherwise my requests would keep growing.

She is on the border of being bipolar according to her psychiatrist and she DOES NOT TAKE HER MEDS

 

 

You need to get out while you still can. This woman is crazy.

[WellHelloThere]

I don't think you can work things out with her. People have disagreements, but it sounds like she is abusive to you. No one should be yelled and cursed at. There's no excuse for that. I could tolerate someone occasionally raising their voice a little and acting frustrated or angry. But not directed at me so much and not with yelling and cursing as part of their normal way of dealing with frustrations.

[lchf]

Jeez didn't know you were dating my ex lol. Walk out now bro, this will not get better. 5 months in there's already this much drama and BS? No thanks.

[RedPurpleOrange]

What's that Del Shannon song?.......

 

 

 

 

....run run run run RUN away....

 

 

Oh, god, the dog thing. That's possibly worse than the moodiness. I adore dogs but I don't want them in the bedroom when making love, or on the bed when sleeping (though when I was single I let my old Jack Russell sleep at the foot of my bed, lol).

 

 

Nothing is more of a passion killer than getting into the moment and hearing the sloppy lipsmacky tongue noises of a doe-eyed doggy sitting at the sidelines when you're doing the nasty.

 

 

And I had an ex who had three cats. Even worse. I had to ban them from the bedroom. At least dogs stay at the sidelines.

 

 

I feel for you.

[Zapbasket]

 

Your choices are limited I'm afraid. You can't love her into someone else. I know people think this is possible and every breakup usually entails some kind of trying to love someone into a better space. It just doesn't work that way. People create relationships that reflect where they presently are. If this is not the relationship you want, your only option is to walk.

 

This is fantastic advice. Very hard to follow, yet so true; there really are no exceptions. It's a very romantic notion to think a person can be loved into a better space; movies are made on that notion; and there is an element in love that enhances the good that people already come into the relationship with. That's why in cases like yours, people so want to believe that their relationship can be the exception, that someone "rough around the edges" can be loved into being a better version of themselves.

 

But it's a false notion, sadly. There aren't exceptions. When someone doesn't want to change, they don't want to change and you hanging around nudging, pleading, coercing, silently hoping--whatever your cocktail is of coping with behavior you don't like--is only going to instigate a power struggle that will make them even less likely to change, or even to attempt to reach a compromise.

 

In your case, since you say there are redeeming aspects to her personality, I think your only choice is to sit her down and explain very gently and very clearly what it is that bothers you, why it bothers you (i.e., how it makes you feel), what would constitute an acceptable change for you, and that if things continue as they are, you simply won't be able to continue in the relationship.

 

Sometimes, unfortunately, people don't realize, or refuse to realize, how bothersome some of their behaviors are until their partner finally leaves. Your challenge is to make her see NOW that she will lose you if she doesn't make some effort. For instance, I think it's perfectly reasonable that you be able to have sex on her bed without the dog being right there with you. I wouldn't tolerate that and I don't know many people who would. (That said, I do know a couple that has two dogs and three cats, and they have sex with all five animals in the room, and the cats just stare, they say...but it's not an issue for them.) The dog might whimper at the door a bit when shut out, but s/he'll grow accustomed to it...and as long as you welcome the dog into the other parts of your time together, and play with him/her and treat him/her lovingly, this one compromise should pose no issue.

 

The problem with how she speaks to you is trickier, because she honestly might not recognize the impact of her words and tone on you. I experienced this in a relationship, and I tried so hard to explain to him how his irritability affected me, but he just couldn't stop himself and I think a large part of the reason for that was that he viewed me as "over-sensitive." Even while he did admit that this had been a problem in previous relationships--a fact his own mother eventually confirmed. When I look back, it saddens me to see that I should have left after 3-5 months, when the behavior showed up with enough consistency to be flagged as a serious problem. And when he continuously acted put off because he felt I was "criticizing" him, I should have just bailed because I cannot tolerate being talked to in that way day after day and every time an issue comes up. Instead, I spent 3.5 years in that relationship with this issue never really getting resolved, only for him to dump me in the same dismissive, irritable, sullen way because he was "tired of me telling him what he was not, rather than focusing on what he was."

 

Your situation might be a similar bind, I'm afraid to say. But you can't know until you really talk to her. If you feel she'll only get defensive, then consider writing her a letter spelling everything out, asking her to read it and mull it over while you two take a break from communicating for a few days, and then to talk with you about it when she's ready. If she doesn't come to you to discuss it or if she gets upset and dumps you, then it will suck, but you will have all the answers you need and can walk away knowing you did everything you could.

 

Good luck. This stuff is tough, especially when the person has many redeeming qualities.

[TaraMaiden2]

....I told her I needed space for a week and I've been debating whether or not to end it with her or try and fix things but I don't feel like I can talk to her and be heard. Been thinking about things for the last few days and just need advice.

Nobody needs space from a healthy relationship, and this isn't a healthy relationship.

You don't need space - you need distance.

That's what you are seeking.

Room to breathe, away from her.

 

You know this relationship is not one you should continue, it;s a disaster.

Buddhist wrote a great post.

Take heed.

And end this.

For your own sake.

[d0nnivain]

I agree. Most of the things you don't like about her are unlikely to change.

 

As she matures she may become nicer but probably not because she doesn't want to.

 

She may learn to listen to her doctors and take her medication as prescribed but that is unlikely. She thinks she knows better then her doctor. In fact she may stop taking the meds & seeing the doctor. Then where will you be?

 

She's never going to change about the dog. BTW she's lying to you about her therapist's recommendation. No qualified mental health professional would say such a thing.

[TO4]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I am going to come to a decision tonight. I am leaning toward breaking up with her over trying to get her to address my needs. I've tried and tried, and surprisingly, I've had similar reactions that GreenCove had with her ex. She called me sensitive and told me that I need to toughen up. She, at one point, asked her mom and told her mom I've complained about the way she treats me. Her mom told her I needed to toughen up over the cursing and tone. It's crazy how much the response of my GF and your EX match, GreenCove. She told me I only focus on the bad rather than good with it comes to her.

 

I feel for the girl, she was molested when by a teacher in preschool. She did not have the best relationship with her dad, but they've since greatly improved the relationship (her dad used to hit her and constantly criticize her.) No, I don't think she is BPD, but I think she does have a some BPD tendencies.

Edited May 8, 2016 by TO4

[Zapbasket]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I am going to come to a decision tonight. I am leaning toward breaking up with her over trying to get her to address my needs. I've tried and tried, and surprisingly, I've had similar reactions that GreenCove had with her ex. She called me sensitive and told me that I need to toughen up. She, at one point, asked her mom and told her mom I've complained about the way she treats me. Her mom told her I needed to toughen up over the cursing and tone. It's crazy how much the response of my GF and your EX match, GreenCove. She told me I only focus on the bad rather than good with it comes to her.

 

I feel for the girl, she was molested when by a teacher in preschool. She did not have the best relationship with her dad, but they've since greatly improved the relationship (her dad used to hit her and constantly criticize her.) No, I don't think she is BPD, but I think she does have a some BPD tendencies.

 

In light of this new information, you should end this. A relationship needs mutual respect in order to grow and thrive, and it sounds like she fundamentally does not respect you, given she cannot even consider your point of view, and sees you as needing to "toughen up" rather than seeing herself as having poor communication skills. Also, it sounds like a pattern where she quotes other outside people as agreeing with her point of view. This is manipulative in that you can't reason with an absent third party and so she "wins" the argument.

 

Yes, your gf and my ex sound a lot alike in key respects. I, like you (so far), made endless excuses for him because he was abandoned by his biological father in a really nasty way (his father dumped him at his grandparents' house, took all his belongings out of the car and set them in his gp's' yard with the words, "You take him." He was only seven), and then at age 11 by his stepfather, whom he really looked up to.

 

But, you know, if someone is unwilling to look at their issues or even consider that they have issues, your empathy is misplaced. We all have issues from our past, but as adults we have a choice to either pity ourselves or take responsibility for ourselves, and work to make the changes necessary to sustain healthy relationships. We're all flawed, but it's much easier to stay with someone who is honest about their flaws and works to address them, than with someone who greets the faintest hint that their behavior could be problematic with crisp denial, and, if pushed, outright aggression.

 

It's true you might need to "toughen up"--but not in the sense your gf and "her mom" mean. You need to decide here and now if this is acceptable behavior for you in a relationship, and if it is not, then you owe it to yourself to cut ties. Accepting abuse--and her treatment of you IS abusive, as was my ex's treatment of me--is not "being tough." It's the most weakening thing you can do, because it's self-alienating...and there is no agency, no power, no happiness in being untrue to yourself. I had to find this out in a very painful way; don't do what I did.

[truth_seeker]

Psychiatrist + Medication = Someone You Need to Stay Away From.

[Zapbasket]

Psychiatrist + Medication = Someone You Need to Stay Away From.

 

NOT TRUE. Please, let's not perpetuate this debilitating mental-illness stereotype. It isolates a whole group of wonderful people who have much to contribute to society and simply need a bit more help than the rest of us in balancing out their moods.

 

Psychiatrist + Medication = someone with more courage than many of us, to seek help and attempt to stay on a course of treatment that can be demoralizing and financially draining.

 

A red flag? Yes. But not an instant deal-breaker. What you look for is whether the person not only seeks treatment, but commits to it by taking the prescribed meds and if they're not providing the desired effect, to work with the psychiatrist to adjust the dosages and/or prescriptions until things are stabilized. Also, you look for how aware the person is of their problem and how open they are to taking responsibility for their actions and taking measures to get better and stay better.

 

Read "The Unquiet Mind." Watch "The Silver Linings Playbook." Mood disorders are not a death sentence for a loving, stable, mutually satisfying relationship.

[Downtown]

She is on the border of being bipolar.... No, I don't think she is BPD, but I think she does have a some BPD tendencies.

TO4, are you using "BPD" to refer to "bipolar"? If so, I note that the anger issues and rapid mood flips you describe are far more characteristic of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) traits than of bipolar traits. It therefore may be worth your while to take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those red flags sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

I call your attention to this important distinction because, whereas bipolar usually can be treated quite successfully by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot. Indeed, medication typically will not make a dent in BPD because it does not arise from gradual changes in body chemistry (as bipolar does).

 

Significantly, learning to spot BPD warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, TO4.

[truth_seeker]

NOT TRUE. Please, let's not perpetuate this debilitating mental-illness stereotype. It isolates a whole group of wonderful people who have much to contribute to society and simply need a bit more help than the rest of us in balancing out their moods.

 

Psychiatrist + Medication = someone with more courage than many of us, to seek help and attempt to stay on a course of treatment that can be demoralizing and financially draining.

 

A red flag? Yes. But not an instant deal-breaker. What you look for is whether the person not only seeks treatment, but commits to it by taking the prescribed meds and if they're not providing the desired effect, to work with the psychiatrist to adjust the dosages and/or prescriptions until things are stabilized. Also, you look for how aware the person is of their problem and how open they are to taking responsibility for their actions and taking measures to get better and stay better.

 

Read "The Unquiet Mind." Watch "The Silver Linings Playbook." Mood disorders are not a death sentence for a loving, stable, mutually satisfying relationship.

 

Yes, instant deal-breaker. She needs to get help, sort through her issues and get herself right before engaging in any type of relationship. He needs to stay away from her to not only save himself from constant anguish but to let her heal and get herself right.

[TO4]

TO4, are you using "BPD" to refer to "bipolar"? If so, I note that the anger issues and rapid mood flips you describe are far more characteristic of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) traits than of bipolar traits. It therefore may be worth your while to take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those red flags sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

I call your attention to this important distinction because, whereas bipolar usually can be treated quite successfully by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot. Indeed, medication typically will not make a dent in BPD because it does not arise from gradual changes in body chemistry (as bipolar does).

 

Significantly, learning to spot BPD warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, TO4.

 

Downtown, thanks for your reply. By BPD, I do mean borderline personality disorder. I don't think she is BPD but she has a few BPD tendencies thanks to some insecurities due to a not so great father when she was younger and being molested at a young age.

 

I think she is bipolar.

[TO4]

In light of this new information, you should end this. A relationship needs mutual respect in order to grow and thrive, and it sounds like she fundamentally does not respect you, given she cannot even consider your point of view, and sees you as needing to "toughen up" rather than seeing herself as having poor communication skills. Also, it sounds like a pattern where she quotes other outside people as agreeing with her point of view. This is manipulative in that you can't reason with an absent third party and so she "wins" the argument.

 

Yes, your gf and my ex sound a lot alike in key respects. I, like you (so far), made endless excuses for him because he was abandoned by his biological father in a really nasty way (his father dumped him at his grandparents' house, took all his belongings out of the car and set them in his gp's' yard with the words, "You take him." He was only seven), and then at age 11 by his stepfather, whom he really looked up to.

 

But, you know, if someone is unwilling to look at their issues or even consider that they have issues, your empathy is misplaced. We all have issues from our past, but as adults we have a choice to either pity ourselves or take responsibility for ourselves, and work to make the changes necessary to sustain healthy relationships. We're all flawed, but it's much easier to stay with someone who is honest about their flaws and works to address them, than with someone who greets the faintest hint that their behavior could be problematic with crisp denial, and, if pushed, outright aggression.

 

It's true you might need to "toughen up"--but not in the sense your gf and "her mom" mean. You need to decide here and now if this is acceptable behavior for you in a relationship, and if it is not, then you owe it to yourself to cut ties. Accepting abuse--and her treatment of you IS abusive, as was my ex's treatment of me--is not "being tough." It's the most weakening thing you can do, because it's self-alienating...and there is no agency, no power, no happiness in being untrue to yourself. I had to find this out in a very painful way; don't do what I did.

 

I gave her an ultimatum today and told her if not, I'm out. She started crying and apologized, said she had no idea her behavior was affecting me like so and said that she is just not sure if she can change because she has a difficult time with having a filter, and I told her okay then I want to move on. Then she started crying more, sent me a few texts saying she will try to change, but not sure at this point. She was texting me saying I sounded really cold and distant, and honestly my feelings for her are just not very strong at this point.

[bubbaganoosh]

 

She has been trying to change but says she can only change so much because those aspects are just part of her personality. It really bugs me and she's gotten better but when she starts talking in a tone toward me and I tell her to stop, she gets very mad at me because she feels as if I am criticizing her and that I don't accept her for being "rough around the edges."

 

Friend she's not going to change. Those aren't aspects of her life. It's bad manners period. Sooner or later she going to fat mouth someone and the answer she gets will be one across the gums. First of all I wouldn't want to kiss her after her dog spent the last hour licking his balls and ass and her bad mouth is nothing but disrespect.

 

I doesn't take a lot to speak to people without being ugly or rude. If it was me, I would tell her to hit the bricks and find a woman with manners and better hygiene.

[bluefeather]

I gave her an ultimatum today and told her if not, I'm out. She started crying and apologized, said she had no idea her behavior was affecting me like so and said that she is just not sure if she can change because she has a difficult time with having a filter, and I told her okay then I want to move on. Then she started crying more, sent me a few texts saying she will try to change, but not sure at this point. She was texting me saying I sounded really cold and distant, and honestly my feelings for her are just not very strong at this point.

 

Be careful that you do not feed off of her supposed vulnerability. Whether it is fake or real, it has the potential to massage your ego, and you may decide to continue a relationship with her based off of this new "realization" of hers.

[Downtown]

I don't think she is BPD but she has a few BPD tendencies.... I think she is bipolar.

Perhaps so, TO4. If you're interested, I describe the differences I've observed at 12 BPD/Bipolar Differences. It is based on my experiences with a bipolar-1 sufferer (my foster son) and a BPDer (my exW).

[Zapbasket]

Yes, instant deal-breaker. She needs to get help, sort through her issues and get herself right before engaging in any type of relationship. He needs to stay away from her to not only save himself from constant anguish but to let her heal and get herself right.

 

Yes, in THIS case...but because OP's girlfriend obviously has NOT sorted her issues and as long as she makes excuses and tries to pass off blame to her partner, she won't get them sorted out.

 

But generally, just because someone sees a psychiatrist and takes meds, it doesn't mean they're not capable of contributing to a healthy, loving relationship.

 

We basically agree here that in OP's case, his girlfriend's behavior is NOT commensurate with a healthy relationship and if she isn't willing to work on her side, he must leave her or face endless unhappiness. That's because of HER, not whatever psychiatric illness she may or may not have. That's the only point, the only differentiation, I'm trying to make.

[Zapbasket]

I gave her an ultimatum today and told her if not, I'm out. She started crying and apologized, said she had no idea her behavior was affecting me like so and said that she is just not sure if she can change because she has a difficult time with having a filter, and I told her okay then I want to move on. Then she started crying more, sent me a few texts saying she will try to change, but not sure at this point. She was texting me saying I sounded really cold and distant, and honestly my feelings for her are just not very strong at this point.

 

Good for you! Sounds like you handled everything perfectly.

 

Now it's up to you if you want to give her a chance or if you have already had enough. She'll have to show that she is serious about making changes. Unfortunately, most often just the fact of staying de-motivates the person to attempt change, because from their end, they think you *might* just tolerate the status quo. This is not the rule; there are, of course, exceptions. Basically you have to ask yourself if you believe she is self-aware and mature enough to take this seriously, to take responsibility and do the work required.

 

Let us know what happens. And again: good for you for taking this step; I know it's not easy.

[BelleSkye]

How can you call her 'beautiful and smart' when she speaks badly to you and has poor hygiene ways? You are just physically attracted to her but that does not mean she is 'beautiful' (which means both personality and physical attributes in my opinion)...and not respecting basic hygiene measures when you guys are together or intimate means she is just selfish and used to having her own way (and she already has a therapist at 22...issues have always been there before you even entered the picture).

 

If you can get a 'pretty' girl like that I'm sure you can get another chick with similar looks as well. Unless you have a thing for much younger girls.

[Nydaisy]

I highly doubt her behavior will change. Being nasty and then excusing means she is unwilling to take responsibility for her harsh words. Run now and safe yourself the grief there's no room for that in a healthy relationship