Saying "nice guys" are manipulative for not being honest is such a cop out...

[elaine567]

Re the articles quoted - Big difference from dating your best friend, to dating a guy who you have deliberately friend zoned or some guy who you met on OLD who just wants to be "friends".

Best guy friends from school or college or work have usually been around for years, with lots of shared things and experiences in common, they have been through thick and thin with you, so no wonder they make good partners.

 

Guys who just want to be your "friend" to get close enough to get into your pants is not the same thing at all.

That is where allegations of manipulation come in.

[Woggle]

You have to understand first of all that not all women are male bashers and those who aren't don't vocalize it as much. Positive people are not as vocal as negative ones so women who know how to have healthy and functional relationships are not heard from as much. For the women who are male bashers they complain about anything a man does. Simply existing is where you went wrong with them so why care. Why care about people you can never please?

[Maalik]

Re the articles quoted - Big difference from dating your best friend, to dating a guy who you have deliberately friend zoned or some guy who you met on OLD who just wants to be "friends".

Best guy friends from school or college or work have usually been around for years, with lots of shared things and experiences in common, they have been through thick and thin with you, so no wonder they make good partners.

 

Guys who just want to be your "friend" to get close enough to get into your pants is not the same thing at all.

That is where allegations of manipulation come in.

 

So.......despite being interested romantically, and despite women expressing desires for guys who are interested in them romantically to take it slow, be respectful and get to know them as friends first, you're supposed to somehow get to know them as friends first without ever stating any romantic interest or else that's being fake. At what point exactly do we say this is ****ing stupid.

[elaine567]

So.......despite being interested romantically, and despite women expressing desires for guys who are interested in them romantically to take it slow, be respectful and get to know them as friends first, you're supposed to somehow get to know them as friends first without ever stating any romantic interest or else that's being fake. At what point exactly do we say this is ****ing stupid.

 

ER no.

If you are dating then you need to make that perfectly plain and not pretend to be just friends or put yourself in the friendzone by not making any moves.

Women are just people, women looking for relationships want men that they get along with, that they have things in common with, that they can talk to, that they can imagine spending their life with. So he needs to be friend material, but he also needs to be seen as a man, a person they can have sex with.

A balance needs to be struck between the two, too much of either side tends to result in failure.

[basil67]

This woman has never wanted to 'take it slow'. I slept with my hubby on the night of the day we met and didn't go home till the next evening.

 

If you think we are all the same, then you're delusional.

[Blanco]

I also wanna point out that if a woman is genuinely interested in anything romantic with you, she's usually not going to wait months and months to have sex with you, let alone kiss you.

 

I'm a bit of a goofy guy, so I've usually had past partners and what have yous practically fall into my lap. Stuff like kissing happened relatively quickly and sex wasn't something that took eons to get to. These weren't all party girls, either. Mixed in were strong, intelligent, independent women. Turns out they like sex, too, and like to engage in such activities when they're attracted to someone. Go figure.

[preraph]

This doesn't have to exist only in extremes where your choices are either have sex within 10 minutes of meeting as if it's a late-night Cinemax movie or spend months and months getting to know someone without so much as kissing.

 

Exactly what I've said three times now and he's conveniently ignored three times.

[preraph]

I also wanna point out that if a woman is genuinely interested in anything romantic with you, she's usually not going to wait months and months to have sex with you, let alone kiss you.

 

I'm a bit of a goofy guy, so I've usually had past partners and what have yous practically fall into my lap. Stuff like kissing happened relatively quickly and sex wasn't something that took eons to get to. These weren't all party girls, either. Mixed in were strong, intelligent, independent women. Turns out they like sex, too, and like to engage in such activities when they're attracted to someone. Go figure.

 

Exactly. She's not a safe to be cracked. You have fun, you kiss, you see what happens. If you're not having fun and you're not kissing, NOTHING is going to happen, ever.

[Blanco]

So let's look at that situation you had with your co-worker.

 

I can understand how that would've been frustrating to get shut down like that after feeling like you two had built up a good rapport over many months. But you know what stood out to me the most? The window of time involved in your story.

 

You didn't ask her out for at least three, maybe four months! Now, maybe you ask her out within a few weeks and you still get the same result you got. But it's totally possible that you got friend-zoned because you took so long to finally work up the nerve to ask her out. Maybe she was interested in something romantic at one point, but by time you finally asked her out, she sincerely saw you as a platonic friend whose company she enjoyed.

 

Again, maybe you get the same results if you don't take months to ask her out, but I think a key to developing something with a person who seems to have interest in you is to not hem and haw for too long. Build a bit of a rapport, engage in some good banter, and just ask her out.

 

In short, some women might want to take sex and the relationship slowly, but that doesn't apply to simply asking out the woman on a date.

[phineas]

Are we really going to pretend that women have never said......"I wish a guy would get to know me. Let's be friends first. Let's take it slow. I wish guys would take time to talk to me instead of trying to get into my pants."

 

Are we going to pretend that women have never said **** like this before only to call the guys who do this manipulative and deceitful.

 

Guys only try the "friend" approach because that's what women have said to have wanted.

 

Basically, no matter what men do women will complain. If guys are aggressive and forward, women take offense, complain guys just want sex or to get in their pants, etc. That guys only want one thing. If guys try to take it slow, proceed with caution, they're friendzoned, rejected and accused of being manipulative. Accused of using friendship to get close.

 

It's baloney. No matter what men do there's a problem.

 

It all comes down to whether a woman finds you attractive or not & the man recognizing which it is and moving on if it isn't in his favor.

 

If a woman is attracted to you, you can get laid easy as long as you make her "work" for it & don't talk about sex until she does.

 

You can go for sex ASAP and she won't mind at all if attracted to you.

She may not sleep with you then but she will later.

But not too much later in case you lose interest.

 

Learn to care less and you'll do better.

[Robert]

Thread closed, thanks all who participate