Does society value stay at home mothers and fathers?

[cocorico]

I think it's very difficult to claim "society" feels X or Y, because "society" is seldom monolithic and each person will view "society" from where they stand. Additionally, not only is each country different, but each also changes over time. During the World Wars, for example, when men were away fighting, women were needed in the workplace and propaganda painted working out of the home as women's patriotic duty. After the war, with men returning, women were encouraged to return home to be SAHM so that men could take up their jobs.

 

When I was a kid, women working was very much a class issue. Working class women worked - often in poorly paid sectors, such as domestic work, cleaning, in factories or shops. Middle class women were typically SAHM - unless they were "career women" such as teachers or nurses, and usually those women were unmarried as public service jobs were reserved for married men and single people, with married women being appointed on short term contracts only. A woman's role was viewed as being "in the home", aside from the class of women who were degendered by their socioeconomic status or their career ambitions. SAHDs were all but Unknown, though one of my close friends had a mother who lectured at the university and an older father who was retired.

 

I have a couple of friends who are SAHD and they are treated with suspicion when they take their kids to the park during the day, and find many of the SAHM patronise them as if they were clueless about raising kids (despite having as much experience as those SAHM).

[Eternal Sunshine]

I was a SAHM for the first 3 years after I had my son.

 

Quite honestly, it was a walk in the park. Make no mistake - I did it ALL and my husband didn't do anything. I even cut the grass. All he had to do was occasional manly maintenance if the water heater broke or I needed a heavy [piece of furniture moved.

 

Even literally doing it ALL, it was still a walk in the park.

 

I really don't understand why everyone makes like a SAHM is some kind of super hero. I really don't. It was the easiest time of my life.

 

That all changed once I went back to work. You work all day then have to come home at night and do all the work you couldn't do because you worked all day. Plus, your weekends are now stuffed with work as well because you save all the bigger and more time-consuming chores for the weekend.

 

In essence, being a working mom was a TON of work and much much harder than being a SAHM ever was.

 

Exactly. I get annoyed when people say that a SAHM is a full time job in itself. It's people's choice to be SAHM but don't make it something it isn't. Working mums have a job that brings a lot of stressors and drains energy on the top of "mum duties". It's only logical which one is tougher.

 

Also, there are a lot of people of both sexes that hate the idea of working and can't wait for an excuse not to work. Saying that it's all for the children is a very convinient excuse.

 

Personally, I was raised by parents that both worked full time. They still had enough time to give me plenty of love and attention and I can't imagine better parents.

 

There are exceptional circumstances where a child is sick or disabled or people that are financially so well off that there is no need for work. I do remember girls that would say that their goal in life is to find a rich husband so that they can be SAHM. Sorry but :sick:

[Keats]

It wasn't a walk in the park for me at all. And I guess you'll never be able to understand how many other women really truly find it hard work.

 

And of course it gets harder with more children.

 

But it is a bit erm, unhelpful to enter into discussions like this.

 

One women could find a a c section a walk in the park.

 

The other could find it a nightmare.

 

It's not a competition.

 

I don't feel uncomfortable with the fact that you did so well. I feel a bit that you'd never be able to understand why other women might struggle.

 

Now your right about being a working mother. Basically you just added to your load of work.

 

And it's not as if men easily fall into the wife/mother role as easily as women fall into every single role.

 

I was a SAHM for the first 3 years after I had my son.

 

Quite honestly, it was a walk in the park. Make no mistake - I did it ALL and my husband didn't do anything. I even cut the grass. All he had to do was occasional manly maintenance if the water heater broke or I needed a heavy [piece of furniture moved.

 

Even literally doing it ALL, it was still a walk in the park.

 

I really don't understand why everyone makes like a SAHM is some kind of super hero. I really don't. It was the easiest time of my life.

 

That all changed once I went back to work. You work all day then have to come home at night and do all the work you couldn't do because you worked all day. Plus, your weekends are now stuffed with work as well because you save all the bigger and more time-consuming chores for the weekend.

 

In essence, being a working mom was a TON of work and much much harder than being a SAHM ever was.

[Keats]

Being a mom is a full time job. How is it not?

 

Just because you found it easy and enjoyable doesn't meant it should be downgraded as not a job. Or even a full time one.

 

You being a mom who works and comes home and continues to parent and housekeep surely means your coming back from a job to another job.

 

It's unfortunately your life circumstances or your life style choice that has lumped you with TWO jobs. So your life is harder, busier.

 

A SAHM has her job too. It is full time, because depending on how many children you have, how they are, how your own health as a parent is, generally we don't get paid, get any breaks unless at nap time, but even then there's no rest, and it also depends on what your parenting style is.

 

Some women find breastfeeding easy. Some find it a hardship. Some give their babies processed food, some make their babies homemade food. Some parents can go to their families and get some support, some don't. Some women suffer from crippling longterm PND others don't.

 

Etc.

 

I am a SAHM purely for my child. It's not an excuse. We aren't rich at all. When my husband comes home bloody hell I need a break. And he needs to spend time with his daughter.

 

It really is a myth that SAHM must be rich women.

 

Where do you get this stereotype from?

 

Exactly. I get annoyed when people say that a SAHM is a full time job in itself. It's people's choice to be SAHM but don't make it something it isn't. Working mums have a job that brings a lot of stressors and drains energy on the top of "mum duties". It's only logical which one is tougher.

 

Also, there are a lot of people of both sexes that hate the idea of working and can't wait for an excuse not to work. Saying that it's all for the children is a very convinient excuse.

 

Personally, I was raised by parents that both worked full time. They still had enough time to give me plenty of love and attention and I can't imagine better parents.

 

There are exceptional circumstances where a child is sick or disabled or people that are financially so well off that there is no need for work. I do remember girls that would say that their goal in life is to find a rich husband so that they can be SAHM. Sorry but :sick:

[serial muse]

I'm an ardent feminist, and nothing sticks in my craw like the 'mommy wars'. I find it incredibly disheartening that there are certain sectors that find it 'empowering' to denigrate the choices of others... the choices that have been hard fought for and theoretically 'won'.

 

The choice I refer to is where a family can have the freedom to determine what is best for them without forced default to gender norms. If that's stay at home--father or mother--fabulous. If that's work, fabulous too. If it's right for you and the specific context of your family, it's right for you. And right for you in my book equals valuable.

 

Frankly anyone who advocates that there is only one valuable contribution or model is IMO incredibly narrow minded and insular. I say hats off to those who work and those that stay at home; more power to you for doing what's right for you. You probably feel like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. But that damnation is a petty thing in the context of what you're actually achieving for your family in your way.

 

Hear, hear!!

[Els]

I was a SAHM for the first 3 years after I had my son.

 

Quite honestly, it was a walk in the park. Make no mistake - I did it ALL and my husband didn't do anything. I even cut the grass. All he had to do was occasional manly maintenance if the water heater broke or I needed a heavy [piece of furniture moved.

 

Even literally doing it ALL, it was still a walk in the park.

 

I really don't understand why everyone makes like a SAHM is some kind of super hero. I really don't. It was the easiest time of my life.

 

That all changed once I went back to work. You work all day then have to come home at night and do all the work you couldn't do because you worked all day. Plus, your weekends are now stuffed with work as well because you save all the bigger and more time-consuming chores for the weekend.

 

In essence, being a working mom was a TON of work and much much harder than being a SAHM ever was.

 

I know several mothers who said that they found being a SAHM so draining that they decided to go back to work, even if their income was just barely breaking even with daycare/nanny costs. It's probably a personal thing - different people find different things more exhausting. Personally I can't imagine anything more exhausting than being cooped up with an infant 24 hours a day... but that's just me.

 

I don't think that it's always an 'in addition to' thing - if a family has 2 incomes you can likely afford more time-saving luxuries (nanny, occasional cleaner, a dishwasher, etc) than if you're a SAHM, so chances are the total housework/childcare load is higher in a one-income family. Also if you and your husband are both working full-time you should be talking about splitting the remaining housework/childcare and not you doing all of it. If he refuses, that's a different issue entirely.

[wmacbride]

It really should come down to empowering people to make the work/stay at home choice that is what works best for them. It's not a competition to see who has a more difficult time.

[Revolver]

I don't know of a single SAHP that has a nanny. Maybe it's the 1% they're referring to.

 

All the stay at home parents I know are loaded. Spouse is a surgeon, Successful business owner etc

[carhill]

All the stay at home parents I know are loaded. Spouse is a surgeon, Successful business owner etc

IMO, if accurate generally, that dynamic reflects a fundamental change in society. Most of our group of SAHM families, in fact all I knew, were working stiffs, meaning people who worked blue collar or low level white collar jobs for a wage or salary. Even with that, they lived in new houses (my dad and mom bought theirs through the VA since he was a war vet) and most drove new cars (we always had two and they were generally only a few years old before traded in). The men worked at their job and focused on it for work and the women managed the homes and children and, sometimes, the finances too, as their work and, around our place anyway, shared equally in the benefits of both spouse's work.

 

Some sage advice I got from the working guy, dad, the accountant, was, 'son, when you start accounting for who did what in a marriage, you best consider that marriage done'.

 

Hence, generally, I saw little attention paid to what society valued, rather more what the marital partners valued, often accentuated by 'son, what goes on down the street is their business; this is our home and our business'.

 

I noted, in general, overt valuing of stay at home parenting began to wane in the early 70's, the early signs being the SAHM's who remained beginning to be seen as 'carers' and starting up what would later become pre-school and day-care businesses, as more women entered the workforce and dual-income households became more the norm. The older generation died off or move on to retirement locations and the younger families moved into the area with the new family philosophies and the old wasn't really valued or eschewed, rather mostly ignored unless it fit into their scheme for day care for their kids while they worked.

[wmacbride]

All the stay at home parents I know are loaded. Spouse is a surgeon, Successful business owner etc

 

I can only speak for my own situation and those that I see in my friends who stay at home.

 

None of them are well off, and those who I know who are have both parents working. Many of them are eligible for tax breaks given to help offset the childcare costs.

 

As I said above, if one truly wants equality in society, then should women and men feel they are free to decide whether or not they wish to work, and receive at least moral support for their decision? It shouldn't be turned into some sort of a "why has it harder" contest.

Edited May 9, 2016 by wmacbride

[thefooloftheyear]

Someone else brought up a good point....

 

A guy who is effeminate or un-intimidating looking might be ok, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that the big, tatted up, biker looking guy would probably draw some very suspicious glances from the helicopter moms and the like if he was out at the park with his 7 year old daughter or/and a few of her friends..

 

TFY

[wmacbride]

Someone else brought up a good point....

 

A guy who is effeminate or un-intimidating looking might be ok, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that the big, tatted up, biker looking guy would probably draw some very suspicious glances from the helicopter moms and the like if he was out at the park with his 7 year old daughter or/and a few of her friends..

 

TFY

 

 

Must be the company I keep, but all the fathers here are muscle bound and tatted up

[carhill]

Someone else brought up a good point....

 

A guy who is effeminate or un-intimidating looking might be ok, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that the big, tatted up, biker looking guy would probably draw some very suspicious glances from the helicopter moms and the like if he was out at the park with his 7 year old daughter or/and a few of her friends..

 

TFY

Yeah, I had a close cousin, male, who did the SAHD stuff, sort of, back in the 70's, when his wife worked a white collar government job and he ran a landscape business. His son and daughter went to the jobs with him, even as toddlers. I remember pictures of him on job sites with one on the front and one on the back (in those papoose things) while he managed his workers. He changed diapers on a changing board in his pickup truck with the then new 'HP' logo (Silicon Valley) in the background. Definitely outlier and he got a lot of sideways glances from people, including his family, which didn't really approve. I thought it was cool but that's probably because he had a Corvette and took me fishing

[Got it]

No, as a society we don't value it. Why? Because if it was valued it would have tax and economic protection that it doesn't have. We would do far more to incentive those to stay home and and make it a far more attainable reality for more American families.