elaine567 Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 Maybe after that date she wasn't wowed, so she let it go when you didn't reply during the hike, but as the week wore on she saw some possibilities and so has got back in touch again. Not everyone makes quick decisions, some take their time. Some people can grow on you, not everything is about instant attraction. I am sure even "meal prostitutes", occasionally meet people they want to see again and have relationships with. Of course she could also be a game player, "punishing" you by ghosting as you were not available 24/7 for her, and then picking you up again now, just as you were thinking it was all over. You really liked her, so I think it is worthwhile giving her a second date at least.
MidwestUSA Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 Benefit of the doubt was killed by online dating. Of course it could all be totally legit, but when a girl (or a guy) from OLD disappears for a few days then bounces back it is usually because they are dating someone else and are flim-flamming about. In my experience, and so it seems, that of others, no healthy relationship evolved from such a start. On the one hand give her a chance, on the other bear in mind that people treat us how we allow ourselves to be treated. Kind of want OP to play along with her because I am really intrigued how this turns out now. This being OLD the cynical outlook is usually richly rewarded and I can't help but think that this might make it to date 2, maybe 3, then someone better will come along and she will ghost. A few days? OP went on a date on a Saturday night, and posted here on Tuesday evening. He himself had obligations (hiking) on Sunday. Me? I'd have slept in and hung with the dogs the day after a date. So that leaves Monday. Back to work. Yea, really feel like going on a date on Monday night. Ah, Tuesday. Yep. She's found someone else and is out with him. Probably managed to snag a nicer gig at $120. Where do you get the idea that we spend every second devoting ourselves to searching for guys? And OLD has nothing to do with it. 'Traditional' means of dating were used for the same purpose - women juggling men. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.......... 2
insert_name Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 A few days? OP went on a date on a Saturday night, and posted here on Tuesday evening. He himself had obligations (hiking) on Sunday. Me? I'd have slept in and hung with the dogs the day after a date. So that leaves Monday. Back to work. Yea, really feel like going on a date on Monday night. Ah, Tuesday. Yep. She's found someone else and is out with him. Probably managed to snag a nicer gig at $120. Where do you get the idea that we spend every second devoting ourselves to searching for guys? And OLD has nothing to do with it. 'Traditional' means of dating were used for the same purpose - women juggling men. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.......... You can meet someone new in 5 minutes on Tinder (especially if you are a half decent looking female) and be out with them 24 hours later depending on how fast you work and how taken you are by this new prospect. Maybe she was speaking to them before she went on a date with OP? It isn't asking a lot for someone to acknowledge 1 text message in a timely manner. "Interested people act interested" etc. I've been round the block a few times, enough to see that this is consistent with mine (and others) experiences that she is acting like a plate spinner. If OP wants to get involved in that sort of deal then fair enough, I have just seen it too many times myself and take a hard line. Typically heavy texting up to the first date, great first date (to my mind) then after the date text frequency gets sketchy, she disappears, comes back apologising for disappearing because her dog died/she was ill/whatever, navigate the infrequency of texts and arrange a second date, the atmosphere is noticeably different, that is that. Like I say, I don't even bother to pursue it when the contact slows down after the first date anymore, they are weighing up other options and when you get in the mindset that it is okay to be someone's option you are denting your own self-respect. NEXT! Of course, OP's mileage may vary, but I don't think this is going to work out the way he would like.
elaine567 Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 Like I say, I don't even bother to pursue it when the contact slows down after the first date anymore, they are weighing up other options and when you get in the mindset that it is okay to be someone's option you are denting your own self-respect. NEXT! Yes, but you are going to that date thinking it won't be good and it isn't, so you are always right. Had you approached the date in a different mindset, the date may have gone a lot better. Seems to me too many "rules" have been set up over texting, that do not allow real human interaction to develop. 1
insert_name Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 Yes, but you are going to that date thinking it won't be good and it isn't, so you are always right. Had you approached the date in a different mindset, the date may have gone a lot better. Seems to me too many "rules" have been set up over texting, that do not allow real human interaction to develop. I should have been more specific, I meant the atmosphere is different from their side - I put my best foot forward on all the dates I go on, if I go on a date then I try to 'put myself out there' and make a connection. However in the scenario described above typically the girl herself will seem 'different' and not as into it, no surprises then that they completely ghost after the second date. Of course, there are always exceptions, but for me the above is a familiar pattern and it seems to be the same for friends and people on here. Even though you may miss out on someone it often seems easier to just pull the trigger and next them if they have you questioning how interested they are early on. The way I look at it, you shouldn't be having to post on forums and ask others whether they are interested in the early stages and if you are then you should be seriously thinking about moving on, or at least vastly lowering your interest and keeping them on the back burner.
serial muse Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 If you want to text her, text her. I vote this. Sure, it sucks that she didn't reply to your text right away, OP. But in her plus column: 1) she put considerable effort into looking nice for your date; 2) she texted you first, post-date, and left you in no doubt at that point that she liked you; 3) she reached out when she was feeling better to apologize for not replying sooner and confirmed that she likes you. It's possible that she's spinning plates, I guess, but you also have another date lined up for Saturday so you're not sitting on your thumbs (nor should you be). I don't think she has committed crimes against humanity, either. Five [edit: six] pages of thread can be summed up like this: She took a few extra days to respond to your text because she wasn't feeling well. She says. Whether that's the truth is impossible to gauge from the evidence. Whether it's a sufficient excuse is, I guess, your call and yours alone. But it seems a bit early to determine that she's a liar or a hardened dinner-grubber. If you liked her and want to see her again, then do. 4
GR4 Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 And women you call out will think you are obnoxious and entitled. They don't know and they don't owe you anything - not even politeness or manners. Just because you like a woman, enjoy her company doesn't mean that anyone owes the other anything. She is not obliged to text you back, provide reasons or any justification. Nor is any man in the same scenario. After one day you are still basically strangers. If she was sick then I know sending text messages to a stranger wouldn't be high on my list. This creating of accountability that someone has because they went on one date is frightening. I hear this argument all the time and it winds me up no end. No one owes anyone anything in this world. Do I owe it to the person behind me to hold the door open for them? No. I do it because it's the considerate thing to do. Same thing here. This girl doesn't 'owe' him an explanation but it's the decent thing to do and by just vanishing she is displaying her poor character. Get this childish notion of 'owing' out of your head. It's not about who owes who what. It's about basic manners and decency. It takes a few seconds to send a message saying "I'm not interested" so there is no excuse. People ghost for only one reason and that's because they're only interested in preserving their feelings and they're not big enough to be honest. I've dealt with more than my fair of girls ghosting so I've reached a point where I'm going to be blunt with girls if I think their behaviour isn't acceptable. If they think I'm petty, entitled or desperate I really couldn't care less to be honest. I'm not bothered about what girls who couldn't care less about me think. 1
insert_name Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 I hear this argument all the time and it winds me up no end. No one owes anyone anything in this world. Do I owe it to the person behind me to hold the door open for them? No. I do it because it's the considerate thing to do. Same thing here. This girl doesn't 'owe' him an explanation but it's the decent thing to do and by just vanishing she is displaying her poor character. Get this childish notion of 'owing' out of your head. It's not about who owes who what. It's about basic manners and decency. It takes a few seconds to send a message saying "I'm not interested" so there is no excuse. People ghost for only one reason and that's because they're only interested in preserving their feelings and they're not big enough to be honest. I've dealt with more than my fair of girls ghosting so I've reached a point where I'm going to be blunt with girls if I think their behaviour isn't acceptable. If they think I'm petty, entitled or desperate I really couldn't care less to be honest. I'm not bothered about what girls who couldn't care less about me think. There is another reason why people choose to ghost instead of being up front: it leaves the door open to come back if their other plates end up falling and breaking. The chances are if they tell you bluntly that they are unsure about you and want to meet other people you won't be there when they come back. Telling them you were ill is far more palatable.
Zapbasket Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 That's why I advise people to meet up as soon as possible rather than spending weeks 'getting to know' each other by text. It creates a false sense of priority. Yes. I hate texting. I only text to set plans with someone. I think relying on text to get to know someone creates a false sense of...everything.
jen1447 Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 This creating of accountability that someone has because they went on one date is frightening. I'm finding myself agreeing with this. It's possible that OLD has had an effect on this that I'm not aware of but overall I think ppl are entitled to basic decency. If you spent 2-3 hours staring at someone from opposite sides of a table and telling and hearing stories about when you were kids etc. and eating spaghetti together, I think that entitles you to expect to be treated with a baseline level of respect that say a stranger wouldn't get. That doesn't include planning futures and accommodating demands but it does include answering when spoken to, even if that answer happens to be "I don't want to talk to you anymore." I think that's a very fundamental level of humanity that we'd be dumb to toss aside. It's possible that she's spinning plates, Apparently literally! 1
katiegrl Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 Another possibility is that she may think you're a bit over eager, and anxious. You had a nice date Saturday night (first meet). Terrific! She texted you Sunday afternoon. Terrific You were hiking so replied two hours later. Terrific! This is all perfectly fine and where it should have stopped. You WAIT for her to reply back. But no, you got anxious so..... Having not heard back yet (the girl has a life after all), you started feeling anxious and called her Sunday night. The following night Monday you become even more anxious and text her AGAIN. JMO but after one date, first meet, this is too much! Me? I would have thought you to be a bit obsessive. I mean sheesh! You replied back when you returned from hiking, this is FINE! Give her a chance to reply back! Give her a chance to wonder about you to think about you! Keep your anxieties in check. To call again that night and then text again the following night, is just too damn much after having had only one date/first meet. Frankly, I think it's great she texted yesterday, she sounds interested so if you like her and want a second date, text her back. I mean you go from replying back, to calling, to texting, amping it up each time, THREE times within a 24 hour period, to now you want to wait to reply back? What kind of game are you playing anyway? Text her back! Plan that second date. Stop playing games! 2
Zapbasket Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 It's possible that OLD has had an effect on this that I'm not aware of but overall I think ppl are entitled to basic decency. If you spent 2-3 hours staring at someone from opposite sides of a table and telling and hearing stories about when you were kids etc. and eating spaghetti together, I think that entitles you to expect to be treated with a baseline level of respect that say a stranger wouldn't get. That doesn't include planning futures and accommodating demands but it does include answering when spoken to, even if that answer happens to be "I don't want to talk to you anymore." I think that's a very fundamental level of humanity that we'd be dumb to toss aside. I agree with all of this, too! I think what's happened that threads like this one are reflective of, is that so many people have had experiences in dating--online and otherwise--where the other party forewent basic decency, that no one feels confident to be upfront about their interest (or lack thereof). Men have experienced women who use them for a free meal. Women have experienced men who chat them up, act super-interested, woo them to bed, and then just...disappear. Both men and women have experienced people ghosting after one date, or ghosting before the scheduled date can even happen, or worst of all, ghosting after a month or more of dating. The result is that no one wants to put themselves out there. They want to find a relationship, but they go about it with one toe in because they're afraid, and this one-toe-in approach engenders the kinds of flakey, disrespectful, decency-lacking behavior we read about on a place like LS and hear about from our friends. This approach in turn makes the people we're out on dates with feel uncertain, off-center, baffled...which then in turn makes THEM skittish on subsequent dates. After multiple rounds of this, people begin to get bitter, assuming the worst of people while hoping for, and feeling entitled to, their best. The dichotomy of expectations and reality begets even greater bitterness, and the whole dating scene, rather than a carnival (adventure, play, taking chances for fun), turns into a battlefield after the cannons have withdrawn, where all the wounded are staggering around senseless and bleeding and so unable to think or feel beyond their own pain that they cannot even recognize the pain of others. It's inhumane and downright macabre. But, again, it all points to what I've said several times in this thread now: that the best way to approach dating, rather than be all only-toe-in and bitter and weird, is to take pleasure in exploring your interest in certain other people. If they don't reciprocate your interest, you haven't really lost anything and it's just part of the game. If someone ghosts you, getting bitter isn't going to make your subsequent dating experiences any better, so better to just shrug and say, "Oh well, it happens," and look forward to pursuing the next person of interest, who may be not only kind, humane, and fun...but also very interested in you. If you go into that scenario all frothy about who pays for what or what "all the other women" or "all the other men" do, you will quite possibly put her off...and then no one wins. So we all need to chin up, expect nothing, but settle for nothing, either. And try to do it with heart and a smile. (Easier said than done, I know.) 1
losangelena Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 That notion hadn't occurred to me, but yeah I can see Katie's point. I once had a guy do this, where after a first date, he texted, and after I hadn't replied (it had only been a couple of hours), he called. He proceeded to do that throughout the week, even though we had talked on the phone two days after our date. All this sort of anxious checking in, calling 20 minutes after not getting a text back—I cancelled our second date, and told him exactly why. He came on way too strong too quickly. Definitely a possibility. OP, don't overdo it again. 1
LookAtThisPOst Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 I think the OP's actions may have self-sabatoged by his "checking in too frequently" via text may have been some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. But, if you've experienced having been flaked on 10 times before, chances the 11th date MAY feel the spillover to the 11th person. So the person that's been burned by inconsiderateness 10 times before may have deveoped a bitterness that may carry over into a, "OMG, I hope she likes me...I texted her and it's been 2 hrs and she hasn't respond...should I text her again?!" Some to the point of even sleepless nights, constant worry that the 11th person didn't respond in the timely fashion that they would want them to respond. This is indeed a snowballing effect, but eventually one gets saturated enough to the point where they become more complacent about future dating prospects. That they got over that hump of anxiety to a point of complacency.
Imajerk17 Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) I just went back through this thread. This woman actually got back to the OP, within a few pages of this thread. It took her a while but it's only one date. So this 6-pages-long-and-counting-thread is about precisely *what* again? I'm not now seeing what the problem is. A couple general thoughts: 1. Yes I agree you are still strangers after a first date but after someone treats you it is rude to just poof. 2. It's a big red flag for me when a woman turns down a place for a first date due to it being a chain, not nice enough or whatever. Unless she is buying that is. Why would that be. The goal of a first date is to see if you like each other, not enjoy a fancy dinner. Going forward OP you should have a few first date ideas that are more creative than "coffee" and that don't involve much money. 3. It's better to bring up the second date at the end of the first. Edited May 5, 2016 by Imajerk17 3
losangelena Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 I just went back through this thread. This woman actually got back to the OP. It took her a while but it's only one date. So this 6-pages-long-and-counting-thread is about precisely *what* again? I'm not now seeing what the problem is. The problem is that OP has found a horribly inconsiderate, food-grubbing, plate-spinning female who must be unequivocally put in her place. Obviously. 1
jen1447 Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 I agree with all of this, too! I think what's happened that threads like this one are reflective of, is .... ~ Well said GC. That notion hadn't occurred to me, but yeah I can see Katie's point. I once had a guy do this, where after a first date, he texted, and after I hadn't replied (it had only been a couple of hours), he called. He proceeded to do that throughout the week, even though we had talked on the phone two days after our date. All this sort of anxious checking in, calling 20 minutes after not getting a text back—I cancelled our second date, and told him exactly why. He came on way too strong too quickly. Definitely a possibility. OP, don't overdo it again. This kinda begs the question tho - did the overreaction come from the lack of prompt interaction? Not really asking if that was justified or not if so, it's just that I think so many ppl are on the verge of a security collapse at any given moment that it doesn't take much to push them over the edge, given the minefield of modern dating dangers (see GC's analogy above). It's possible these ppl who overreact like that might be perfectly fine if they just got a little reassurance. I think the scary stuff comes moreso in demanding accountability, not so much in expecting basic norms will be observed. So "I texted you after our first date and you didn't reply - where were you, seeing an ex or something??" is creepy, but "Hello? Are you still there?" after 4 hours radio silence isn't, if still possibly a little pathetic as it exposes some sad insecurities. 2
LookAtThisPOst Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 I think this entire post and previous posts about flaky people and dating pretty much sums up ANYONE who asks you, "So why are you still single?" Me (or us): Because I keep running into people like the above mentioned. 1
katiegrl Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) I think the OP's actions may have self-sabatoged by his "checking in too frequently" via text may have been some kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. But, if you've experienced having been flaked on 10 times before, chances the 11th date MAY feel the spillover to the 11th person. So the person that's been burned by inconsiderateness 10 times before may have deveoped a bitterness that may carry over into a, "OMG, I hope she likes me...I texted her and it's been 2 hrs and she hasn't respond...should I text her again?!" Some to the point of even sleepless nights, constant worry that the 11th person didn't respond in the timely fashion that they would want them to respond. This is indeed a snowballing effect, but eventually one gets saturated enough to the point where they become more complacent about future dating prospects. That they got over that hump of anxiety to a point of complacency. I understand feeling anxious. We all feel anxious in those early stages to a certain extent. Par for the course. But that doesn't mean you should act on those anxieties by calling, texting ad nauseum until you get a response. And IMO, calling again *that same night*, and then texting again the following night is considered ad nauseum in my book. Especially after had only one date, a first meet. Frankly, it would have turned me OFF. Go for a run or something. Let her wonder and think about you.... it fosters and builds attraction in those early stages. Which she eventually had a chance to do so she replied back! Edited May 5, 2016 by katiegrl
LookAtThisPOst Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 3. It's better to bring up the second date at the end of the first. Why is this? I mean, I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but sometimes I call back later to set up a 2nd date. I mean, I've been known to say, "I had a nice time, would like to do this again?" or "We should do this again some time!" But, they say, "Yeah, sure!" but could be fibbing or not really mean it in the same fashion as when someone asks, "Hey, how's it going?!" in a greeting when someone says, "going good!" even when things' aren't good. People just snap answer, and when when you thought they were agreeable to the 2nd date at the end of the first...you go to call to set up a 2nd date...only to be ignored.
GravityMan Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 The OP and a handful of other people put too much weight on whether the date was a "success" or not. How well the date goes obviously does matter, but not as much as you think. Just because the date may have seemingly gone well from your (in this case the OP) point of view doesn't necessarily mean that it went well from HER point of view. Even if the guy can "read" people well, that doesn't mean he's a mind-reader. Some people are very good at superficially giving off the impression that they are enjoying the date and enjoying the other person's company. Especially if they are courteous to people in general. It's a skill. But deep down, the other person is actually making her skin crawl. It's likely though that there were multiple subtle negative cues that she voluntarily or involuntarily gave off, and the OP just missed them. Some women are just touchy-feely in general. It is also possible that she genuinely did enjoy your company, OP. But she also determined that you weren't the kind of guy she's looking for...she wasn't actually attracted to you (despite her saying you were a "very attractive man"). Perhaps she met another guy who she had a stronger interest in...hell it's online dating; she may have had several men lined up. Or maybe you were just a meal ticket. Who knows. My advice is this, OP. Get over it, forget about her and move on with your life. And as for your next first date, maybe select a venue that isn't so expensive and upscale. 1
losangelena Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 The OP and a handful of other people put too much weight on whether the date was a "success" or not. How well the date goes obviously does matter, but not as much as you think. Just because the date may have seemingly gone well from your (in this case the OP) point of view doesn't necessarily mean that it went well from HER point of view. Even if the guy can "read" people well, that doesn't mean he's a mind-reader. Some people are very good at superficially giving off the impression that they are enjoying the date and enjoying the other person's company. Especially if they are courteous to people in general. It's a skill. But deep down, the other person is actually making her skin crawl. It's likely though that there were multiple subtle negative cues that she voluntarily or involuntarily gave off, and the OP just missed them. Some women are just touchy-feely in general. It is also possible that she genuinely did enjoy your company, OP. But she also determined that you weren't the kind of guy she's looking for...she wasn't actually attracted to you (despite her saying you were a "very attractive man"). Perhaps she met another guy who she had a stronger interest in...hell it's online dating; she may have had several men lined up. Or maybe you were just a meal ticket. Who knows. My advice is this, OP. Get over it, forget about her and move on with your life. And as for your next first date, maybe select a venue that isn't so expensive and upscale. She texted him back, though.
LookAtThisPOst Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 It's likely though that there were multiple subtle negative cues that she voluntarily or involuntarily gave off, and the OP just missed them. That's kind of reaching out there as she did respond to his text, too. Or it could be a 50/50 split on she was just a discourteous flake. *shrug* Most women I know wouldn't be touchy feely or act they way they did as to not encourage a guy into getting a second date. I had a very similar situation that happened a LONG time ago, I remember it because I recall topics about "chemistry" being important and I thought, on the date, "Wow...THIS is what chemistry feels like!" I mean, it all ramped up from the talking on the phone to the in-person get together, even scored a KISS on the first date...never happened with me before with an online date. She even called me WHEN I got home...I thought I was a SURE bound for a 2nd date, no problem. When I called for a 2nd date, she did pick up, but she was distant, cold, un-enthusiastic, I almost asked if this was someone else as her tone was completely deadpan. I almost didn't ask about getting together again due to her attitude, but did anyway saying she had yard work to do that weekend and a female friend she had to console because her father was sick....she didn't give an alternative. I was land blasted/confused. It was from then on I didn't put much stock into "chemistry" or even first meetings. To say that there was something I did that turned her off during the date would be silly considering how differently things went in comparison to other dates.
katiegrl Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 She texted him back, though. Exactly. After HE stopped acting like a crazy man texting and calling three times in a 24 hour period. Gave her a chance to wonder him, think about him!! They had ONE date!
Zapbasket Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 I had a very similar situation that happened a LONG time ago, I remember it because I recall topics about "chemistry" being important and I thought, on the date, "Wow...THIS is what chemistry feels like!" I mean, it all ramped up from the talking on the phone to the in-person get together, even scored a KISS on the first date...never happened with me before with an online date. She even called me WHEN I got home...I thought I was a SURE bound for a 2nd date, no problem. When I called for a 2nd date, she did pick up, but she was distant, cold, un-enthusiastic, I almost asked if this was someone else as her tone was completely deadpan. I almost didn't ask about getting together again due to her attitude, but did anyway saying she had yard work to do that weekend and a female friend she had to console because her father was sick....she didn't give an alternative. I was land blasted/confused. It was from then on I didn't put much stock into "chemistry" or even first meetings. To say that there was something I did that turned her off during the date would be silly considering how differently things went in comparison to other dates. And this is an example of why I think it's important to go in with zero expectations, and to continue to have no expectations until...I guess until it's obvious that at least for now, the other person plans to stick around. Zero expectations isn't having low standards...it's just not expecting relative strangers who prior to X recent time had no bearing on your life to meet those standards. You're just, in a neutral place, observing. If they are rude or flakey or weird or a creep, then you don't get angry or bitter about it; you just move on. Also, as threads like this one show time and again, it's possible to misread contacts or silences all kinds of ways, especially in the beginning. That's why it's important to keep the focus on YOU the whole time, so that in this case, say, instead of going, "Oh no! She didn't respond to my texts and call asking for a second date! She's not interested / she used me for a meal / she's dating so many other people that this was the earliest she could get back to me / etc.," the OP would have paused and asked himself, "Ok, so she hasn't responded to several attempts to reach her to plan a second date. Could mean she's not interested, but it could also mean she got busy and understandably I'm not at the top of her priority list. So, how do I feel about her? I really enjoyed our date. I had this really good feeling while in her presence and she said some really interesting and thoughtful things. She asked thoughtful things about me and really seemed to listen. Yeah, it's worth it for me to reach out again, in case I'm misreading her silence." I think without realizing it, in dating we all feel "entitled" to another person's preference for us. And we should feel that way, because we know we're awesome and deserving of a loving, healthy relationship, and so it's easy to think, "What's WRONG with this person that s/he didn't call me back? How could s/he not like me?" I've felt it with guys where it's like they feel entitled to my interest, without making any effort to actually WIN my interest. I'll never forget the guy I went on a date with last fall who said, when I turned him down for a kiss, "You should practice saying yes more often." And I replied, "I say yes to the things I want to say yes to." I felt really put off that he obviously felt entitled to kiss me, and on what basis? That we were on a date? He didn't even offer to pay for the dinner HE invited me to at the restaurant HE chose (I paid for him), and didn't really listen to anything I said, and suddenly he's entitled to a kiss? Alternatively, I've caught myself feeling "entitled" to a guy's certainty about me at the beginning. "Why can't he SEE how awesome I am? What kind of 'proof' does he need?" And I have to remind myself that he's scared, just as I am, and of course he can't be certain about me, if he's honest, when he doesn't really know me. Someone above in this thread said, "All this is why I stay single." But you know, if you stay true to yourself, and keep the focus on you, and give people a CHANCE without compromising your standards, I really believe that eventually someone will come along and all this dating mishegas will finally make sense; finally it will all be worth it. 5
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