Lois_Griffin Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 When DH was doing OLD, he mentioned his favorite restaurant in his profile. It's a pretty swanky expensive place (dinner for 2 is easily $150). He told me he got at least 1 contact every day from some woman asking if he'd take her there on their initial meet. Then you don't lead with stuff like that in your profile. Throwing out that kind of bait will catch that kind of fish. He was basically bragging that he can afford the finer things in life and then he found it odd that women were responding to it? It's the same principle with these women who have semi-naked pictures on their profiles or very suggestive picture poses then cry and moan when all they attract are perverts looking for sex. Smh.
Standard-Fare Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 As I sit here I can name at least 10 women off the top of my head that do it all the time. In my 20s my extended family would recommend I do that; I wasn't like that. Just because you don't know anybody who does that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. When DH was doing OLD, he mentioned his favorite restaurant in his profile. It's a pretty swanky expensive place (dinner for 2 is easily $150). He told me he got at least 1 contact every day from some woman asking if he'd take her there on their initial meet. I don't know anybody who robs banks, physically abuses their spouse, molests children or shoots heroin. Does that mean that people in the world don't do those things? If you can name 10 women who do that, you're associating with the WRONG kind of people. Regardless of how many of "these women" are out there in the world, though, I think it's safe to say that it's a small trashy minority who have that kind of mindset... and it shouldn't be assumed that OP's date was taking this approach.
insert_name Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Women who play this game enjoy getting all dolled up & playing the charade. It's fun for them. Yep, I dated a woman in her 30s(!) recently who acted like you describe. She loved giving mixed signals over expensive meals where she was all dressed up. They may be a minority, but they are out there and it is naive to think that they don't exist.
katiegrl Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Women who play this game enjoy getting all dolled up & playing the charade. It's fun for them. I knew a gal that did this all the time too. She loved having various men buy her dinner, the more expensive the restaurant the better! She loved the attention! Might see him again if she had a decent time, but most of the time, it was just a one time thing with *that* guy. She was active on line and often had various men buy her dinner five times a week! Only expensive restaurants would do, and the men went for it! She was a party girl who loved going out, and again loved the attention!
katiegrl Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 I knew a gal that did this all the time too. She loved having various men buy her dinner, the more expensive the restaurant the better! She loved the attention! Might see him again if she had a decent time, but most of the time, it was just a one time thing with *that* guy. She was active on line and often had various men buy her dinner five times a week! Only expensive restaurants would do, and the men went for it! She was a party girl who loved going out, and again loved the attention! ^^To add ... the reason why she limited the dinner dates to one date was because she could get away with not having to kiss him on date one, but not so much on date two. And if she wasn't attracted to the guy, which was most of the time, the thought of having to kiss him grossed her out (her words). Meanwhile she had a FWB with whom she was madly in love, but he didn't give a crap about her. Oh the irony!
katiegrl Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 If you can name 10 women who do that, you're associating with the WRONG kind of people. Regardless of how many of "these women" are out there in the world, though, I think it's safe to say that it's a small trashy minority who have that kind of mindset... and it shouldn't be assumed that OP's date was taking this approach. It's a possibility though. Especially given her not wanting to go to a franchise. And now completely ghosting him. It happens. Speaking personally, I never associated with the woman I spoke about. She was a co-worker and openly shared her exploits with everyone. Like she was proud of her ability to dupe these guys. Really sad and rather pathetic imo. I would never wish to be friends with someone like this.
jen1447 Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 It's a possibility though. Especially given her not wanting to go to a franchise. And now completely ghosting him. It happens. In that case tho they like the game, not just the meal. 3
katiegrl Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) In that case tho they like the game, not just the meal. Absolutely! And the attention! And the *power* they feel having succeeded in duping some poor unsuspecting guy who probably likes her. Edited May 4, 2016 by katiegrl 1
Zapbasket Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 You know, reading so many threads like this one, where the OP had what s/he thought was a successful first date and then received flakey behavior or outright ghosting, it makes me think that maybe us daters would do better if we changed our attitudes and expectations for the early stages of the dating game. Maybe we should go into a first date situation EXPECTING the possibility that we'll be ghosted, EVEN IF it seemed the other person was really into us. It seems there's always that surprise, e.g., "But it seemed we really connected!" The truth is, anyone, especially if s/he is affable, agreeable, socially adept, and charming, can engender feelings of strong connection for the duration of one date. It doesn't mean they actually FEEL a connection; what they do know is how to make anyone they're around feel good. They're aim is not to be deceptive; this is just a product of their hospitable nature. I'm like this, and I have inadvertently mislead people (men and women, romantic and platonic) into thinking they're closer to me than I actually feel they are. People like me enjoy learning about other people and thus are attentive and thoughtful by default; they know how to draw people out and don't need to wait for anyone to draw THEM out. Their behavior makes the people who come into their hospitable orbit feel really good. Also, when dating, even the most relaxed, spontaneous and enjoyable of first dates has this huge elephant in the room, i.e., the possibility of an intimate relationship, with its incumbent feelings of vulnerability, obligation, and each person's hopes and dreams and fears. Someone could go on a date with you, genuinely enjoy himself or herself, and suddenly disappear precisely BECAUSE s/he realized this could turn into something real, something that would require him or her to show up and be vulnerable and honest. This person went on the date because s/he wasn't fully honest with herself about how ready she was for a relationship, or even the possibility of such. Then there is the possibility that people can seem nice online, or wherever you first meet them--even through friends!--but are real lowlifes. It's hard to imagine someone going to so much trouble for a free meal, but as other posters have said, it can and does happen. (And, I should add, not just women. I've heard stories of men asked a woman out to a fancy dinner, showing up and "forgetting" his wallet so that the woman has to pay for everything. I do believe these kinds of situations are the exception rather than the norm. But, we should all be aware that people like this are out there, defying all first impressions.) Yes, people should just be honest. Yes, this woman should have at least sent the OP a text thanking him again for dinner and telling him she just didn't feel the necessary chemistry or whatever. But in an enterprise where self-honesty is hard enough, I don't think we can *expect* that relative strangers will be honest with us. But we don't want this to make us bitter, so that we go out on dates so *sure* people will let us down that we fail to notice when someone perfectly lovely and real and genuinely interested has come into our orbit. Maybe the way to prevent bitterness is to remind ourselves that each date is an investment in our own curiosity. Could something possibly develop with this person? What do I really want in a relationship, or do I not even want a relationship right now? Etc. That way, we take responsibility for our own time, choices, finances, and each date is much more about us and our curiosity than it is about some person we don't even know in whom we've invested all sorts of expectations, most often without even realizing it. 4
jen1447 Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Their behavior makes the people who come into their hospitable orbit feel really good. Or fall in love.
insert_name Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Absolutely! And the attention! And the *power* they feel having succeeded in duping some poor unsuspecting guy who probably likes her. I think these girls enjoy the game and the power their sexuality gives them and as a result they have no respect for any guy who easily dips into his wallet. They will then end up pursuing the guy who FWBs them or strings them along because they enjoy the challenge of a guy who is not swayed by their sexuality/beauty. It always seems to be the fun, party girls who act like this. Most of them are not relationship material so no great loss.
fitnessfan365 Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Want to just interject one thought here, re: comments that she was "out for a free dinner." PEOPLE DON'T DO THAT. That's not anywhere in the realm of normal behavior for anyone who's not HOMELESS and/or seriously deprived. No one's going to put forth the effort of arranging a date online, getting all dressed up, meeting with a stranger, flirting, etc. just to manipulate a free meal, however nice the restaurant is. I find that suggestion ridiculous. It's actually pretty common with OLD. Just recently, I even saw a video on YouTube where this woman admitted she had no romantic interest in the guy but wanted a chance to get dressed up and try a restaurant she'd been wanting to go to. It's very easy for a woman to "casually mention" a restaurant she's been wanting to try in conversation before meeting up. Then like an idiot, the guy makes a reservation at the place which is really expensive. She gets a chance to dress up, goes through the motions, and afterwards never talks to the guy again. There are two common pieces of advice usually given. The one for women is to NEVER except a first meet at a guy's place. The one for men is to NEVER plan an expensive dinner date with a woman you meet online and are seeing for the first time.
LookAtThisPOst Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 You know, reading so many threads like this one, where the OP had what s/he thought was a successful first date and then received flakey behavior or outright ghosting, it makes me think that maybe us daters would do better if we changed our attitudes and expectations for the early stages of the dating game. Maybe we should go into a first date situation EXPECTING the possibility that we'll be ghosted, EVEN IF it seemed the other person was really into us. It seems there's always that surprise, e.g., "But it seemed we really connected!" The truth is, anyone, especially if s/he is affable, agreeable, socially adept, and charming, can engender feelings of strong connection for the duration of one date. It doesn't mean they actually FEEL a connection; what they do know is how to make anyone they're around feel good. They're aim is not to be deceptive; this is just a product of their hospitable nature. I'm like this, and I have inadvertently mislead people (men and women, romantic and platonic) into thinking they're closer to me than I actually feel they are. People like me enjoy learning about other people and thus are attentive and thoughtful by default; they know how to draw people out and don't need to wait for anyone to draw THEM out. Their behavior makes the people who come into their hospitable orbit feel really good. Also, when dating, even the most relaxed, spontaneous and enjoyable of first dates has this huge elephant in the room, i.e., the possibility of an intimate relationship, with its incumbent feelings of vulnerability, obligation, and each person's hopes and dreams and fears. Someone could go on a date with you, genuinely enjoy himself or herself, and suddenly disappear precisely BECAUSE s/he realized this could turn into something real, something that would require him or her to show up and be vulnerable and honest. This person went on the date because s/he wasn't fully honest with herself about how ready she was for a relationship, or even the possibility of such. Then there is the possibility that people can seem nice online, or wherever you first meet them--even through friends!--but are real lowlifes. It's hard to imagine someone going to so much trouble for a free meal, but as other posters have said, it can and does happen. (And, I should add, not just women. I've heard stories of men asked a woman out to a fancy dinner, showing up and "forgetting" his wallet so that the woman has to pay for everything. I do believe these kinds of situations are the exception rather than the norm. But, we should all be aware that people like this are out there, defying all first impressions.) Yes, people should just be honest. Yes, this woman should have at least sent the OP a text thanking him again for dinner and telling him she just didn't feel the necessary chemistry or whatever. But in an enterprise where self-honesty is hard enough, I don't think we can *expect* that relative strangers will be honest with us. But we don't want this to make us bitter, so that we go out on dates so *sure* people will let us down that we fail to notice when someone perfectly lovely and real and genuinely interested has come into our orbit. Maybe the way to prevent bitterness is to remind ourselves that each date is an investment in our own curiosity. Could something possibly develop with this person? What do I really want in a relationship, or do I not even want a relationship right now? Etc. That way, we take responsibility for our own time, choices, finances, and each date is much more about us and our curiosity than it is about some person we don't even know in whom we've invested all sorts of expectations, most often without even realizing it. Yeah, sometimes I wonder if it's just an act.
Zapbasket Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Yeah, sometimes I wonder if it's just an act. If what's just an act? Being friendly and kind and inquisitive, even to relative strangers? It's not an act. It's completely genuine--a genuine interest in other people and what makes them tick, and a genuine gift for behaving towards others in a way that makes them feel good. There's no false pretense; it's just that some people have a gift for meeting others at their level, even if they're at a different level. I have a high IQ and a lot of charisma. I spend much of my time around people far less smart and charismatic than me. I don't go around shoving my intelligence in other people's faces, and I don't meet people automatically assuming that they are less intelligent--and even if they are, I still look for ways we can relate on an equal basis or ways I can learn from them, because as we all know, everyone has strengths, often in areas where we don't have strengths. I don't relate to people generally on a "hierarchical" basis. I just try to find what makes the other person tick, so that I can draw them out and learn about them. It's genuine interest. But, if the person can't or won't reciprocate an interest in me, or meet me at my level, then I can't really consider them relationship material. It's a lopsided relation from the get-go...but often the other person doesn't realize it because they're basking in all the attention I'm giving them. I'm a good listener as well as entertaining; I get excited hearing about a person's hobbies especially if they're different from mine...and in order for me to have a real relationship with anyone, friend or romance, I expect to get some of that back in some measure. That's why I've been baffled when guys express surprise that I don't want a second date. "I really enjoyed going out with you," they'll say. But from my perspective, they spent much of the time talking about themselves, and never asking about me. Furthermore, maybe some of their hobbies were interesting, but truthfully their way of seeing the world, wasn't. So, was I putting on an "act" by showing interest in them...or just doing what any of us needs to do on a date to learn whether there's a true compatibility there? It's not fake or flakey, it's just two strangers learning about each other. A nice first date is just that: a nice first date. It doesn't promise a second date.
Standard-Fare Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 I WOULD like to think this idea of "the woman who cons herself a free meal" is a misogynist myth, but it seems like some of the people talking about it here are women themselves. It seems antiquated and unrealistic to me... a woman getting all dolled up for a pampered night on the town. A paid escort would do that, sure, but almost every woman I know would rather be home eating pizza in sweats than going through those efforts with a man she wasn't interested in. But what do I know, apparently. 1
angel.eyes Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 OP, I suspect she checked your website and writings out and was totally turned off by your political stance. That would explain the timing of her disappearance. The date went well. Since she initiated contact the following morning, she clearly shared your view of the date at that point. Something changed. Two possibilities are your delayed response or your political leanings. I'm guessing it's the latter. I'm always surprised by how strongly seemingly laid back people feel when they unexpectedly encounter someone with opposing political views. A third possibility is she meet someone in the interim and had an even better connection with him. I highly doubt that would happen in a sixteen hour window. Either way, you tried. I would let this one go. No more messaging or calls.
kendahke Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Here's what I'm thinking of saying to her in a text (not necessarily tonight but perhaps tomorrow or later this week): "Normally I don't do this sort of thing, but I enjoyed your company Saturday night, and you really impressed me. People like you are hard to find. I'd love to hear from you again. If there's some misunderstanding over something then I'm happy to talk. If the feeling is no longer mutual or if other factors are in play then I'll totally respect that. You're a great catch and I'm sure you'll make some other man very happy one day." Thoughts? Should I send her this? Don't send that. For whatever immature, childish reasons, she's decided to act like you don't exist. I think you're getting a really good dose of how she behaves--is this an attractive quality to you? Do you not expect a grown woman to show interest and follow through instead of feigning it and playing you out? I vote "leave her alone". She got an expensive dinner, which may have been all she was after. You've shown more than enough interest in her and she's chosen to ignore you, play games or whatever childish BS she's calling herself doing. Next her. There are grown women out there who act like it. Find one of them. And 1st meetings should never cost you more than $35. An $80 dinner is for after you two have decided that you want to enter into a relationship. I'm sorry she's played you like she did--makes it really rough on the women who don't play games with men.
Larryville Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Saturday night I had a first date with a woman I met on Eharmony. Everything went perfectly. She found excuses to touch me often…. Bla bla bla Did not need to read the rest… almost never have too because… Yeah unfortunately this isn’t that rare. I might get some blowback but I bet 75%... no 80% of the “active” profiles on any OLD site are women who would immediately go dark. They are just dinner date OH’s…. They stick out on OLD sites like a sore thumb if guys would bother to scope the red flags. Already said but… Move on! PS - Guys take this post and print it out and before you go on your first date read and heed. 1
SwordofFlame Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 I WOULD like to think this idea of "the woman who cons herself a free meal" is a misogynist myth, but it seems like some of the people talking about it here are women themselves. It seems antiquated and unrealistic to me... a woman getting all dolled up for a pampered night on the town. A paid escort would do that, sure, but almost every woman I know would rather be home eating pizza in sweats than going through those efforts with a man she wasn't interested in. But what do I know, apparently. I don't know any men that sleeps with women on the first date and than ghosts her afterward. Doesn't mean it's not happening.
Zapbasket Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 I WOULD like to think this idea of "the woman who cons herself a free meal" is a misogynist myth, but it seems like some of the people talking about it here are women themselves. It seems antiquated and unrealistic to me... a woman getting all dolled up for a pampered night on the town. A paid escort would do that, sure, but almost every woman I know would rather be home eating pizza in sweats than going through those efforts with a man she wasn't interested in. But what do I know, apparently. I hear you...but I've started to think ANYTHING is possible. People are really really weird. People can go to work, have friends, etc. and seem normal in those spheres, but put them on a date and it's no holds barred on the range of the human condition. I went on a date with a coworker last fall who seemed totally normal and then he proved to be a rude, denigrating, stalkerish nut job. I mean, yeah, I'd rather be home in sweats than going to ANY effort for ANYONE I wasn't really interested in...but I can totally see men and women signing up for dating sites, with no intention of looking for a relationship or even a one-night stand...just going on there for kicks and sure, a free meal. A couple of years ago I tried out a dating site and got lots of offers from local guys to take me fly fishing. I was just a beginner and it was clear from the number of fish pics on these guys' profiles that they were at least really into fly fishing, and some of them revealed that they were professional guides. I did briefly consider taking up some of them on their offer, though I was interested in NONE of them, because I did want to learn more about fly fishing. But then my basic moral sense kicked in; of course I knew it wouldn't be "right" to get what was essentially a free float day-trip on a river when I already knew I was neither attracted nor remotely interested in the guy. I can imagine a lot of people wouldn't have any qualms with doing such a thing, though. After all, online dating is just random strangers; there's no shared social context to make people feel they should try to be at least minimally decent. But all this aside, it's equally possible OP that she just didn't have the gumption to tell you she liked you, but maybe not ENOUGH for a second date. You also have to consider that maybe something came up--a family member died, etc.--in which case of course she's not thinking about someone she just met through a dating site. Fact is, you won't know why she ghosted...and the reason could have nothing to do with you, or with her moral aptitude. She could have died, for all you know. 1
losangelena Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 I WOULD like to think this idea of "the woman who cons herself a free meal" is a misogynist myth, but it seems like some of the people talking about it here are women themselves. It seems antiquated and unrealistic to me... a woman getting all dolled up for a pampered night on the town. A paid escort would do that, sure, but almost every woman I know would rather be home eating pizza in sweats than going through those efforts with a man she wasn't interested in. But what do I know, apparently. I would hardly call getting treated to half an $80 dinner a "pampered night on the town," though. Maybe my idea of a "fancy meal" is much more extravagant than OP's (which is fine). However, I'd imagine that only a woman who's extremely hard-up would see that as a real meal ticket. You could conceivably spend that much at a chain restaurant if you tried. I'm not saying women don't do this, but for $40? I dunno, something doesn't add up in all of this. It's a fancy restaurant with live piano music, she's dolled up to the nines, yet the bill is only $80? Are the ordering off the happy hour menu? Also, if she was going to just disappear, why text him the day after to say she hopes he's enjoying himself? Why say anything at all? OP, I'm not sure speculating is going to get you anywhere. I too have ghosted and have been ghosted on—I'm pretty sure most of us have been on both sides of that coin. This is a part of early dating, and yes it does suck. Lesson learned—cheaper first dates from now on. 4
jen1447 Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Another thing - and this honestly baffles me at times - some ppl really are so ditzy that they literally forget things if they're not right in front of their noses making a case to be remembered. So that can mean thinking sth was cool at noon one day and then, again literally, forgetting that same thing by midnight. It seems almost impossible to believe and I wouldn't if I hadn't seen it firsthand before, but it happens.
losangelena Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Another thing - and this honestly baffles me at times - some ppl really are so ditzy that they literally forget things if they're not right in front of their noses making a case to be remembered. So that can mean thinking sth was cool at noon one day and then, again literally, forgetting that same thing by midnight. It seems almost impossible to believe and I wouldn't if I hadn't seen it firsthand before, but it happens. I can attest to this. My roommate is the absolute worst at this. She'll go out on a date (or two!) with a guy and then suddenly get busy with work and only remember like five days later that she forgot to reply to their text(s). Whenever she tells me this, I look at her like she's got a third arm growing out her back. I'm like, "gurl, these men think you're flakey and disinterested, what are you doing??!" That hasn't stopped her from doing it, though. 2
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