Porter56 Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 I am an unmarried man in his mid 30s and I was skimming over the posts on this forum as well as thinking about all the marriages I've known in my life and have come to the conclusion that lifelong partnership doesn't make much sense for most people. I have never been envious of any married people I've met or read about. It's always the same thing: She doesn't want sex... He doesn't want sex... We can't get along... We've grown apart... We can't communicate anymore... These are only a few of the awful and depressing things I seem to always hear about marriages, even newlyweds! The standard advice is always generic- think of the kids, communication is important, counseling, etc etc etc My point is this: You can spend your life forcing yourself to live with anyone really. I mean most people say you should just try and learn how to love the person you're with again. Well you could do that with anybody really...they don't need to be special. So just pick a name from the phonebook. I understand that marriage works for raising a family and everything but ignore that for a second and explain to me why we humans should go through this because so many of you describe really depressing lives when you talk about your marriages. And even so called happily married people don't seem so great to me. I guess I'm looking for some positivity here despite my negative tone...tell me what makes your spouse special...basically try to "sell" marriage to me... 1
dichotomy Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 Interesting that you use the term "partnership" in yoiur subject because I think sometimes after the sex and passion and even feelings of love is gone - I have seen marriages function "well enough" as partnerships. My two much older sisters have been married 40 years+ each. Yes 40 years - EACH. While many things are missing - i do see a partnership in kids, grandkids, home, lifestyle, and someone to talk to and share a meal. They kind of just viewed it as a commitment and a partnership even when things went away or got hard. But I get the general gist of your post and agree with some of it - the no or low sex issues, the communication and intimacy losses, growth apart, and more that happen many times in marriages. If I never wanted kids or a family life, I might have stayed single..until I got much older - then the idea of companionship and partnership has some strong benefits in my mind.
Liam1 Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 I am an unmarried man in his mid 30s and I was skimming over the posts on this forum as well as thinking about all the marriages I've known in my life and have come to the conclusion that lifelong partnership doesn't make much sense for most people. I have never been envious of any married people I've met or read about. It's always the same thing: She doesn't want sex... He doesn't want sex... We can't get along... We've grown apart... We can't communicate anymore... These are only a few of the awful and depressing things I seem to always hear about marriages, even newlyweds! The standard advice is always generic- think of the kids, communication is important, counseling, etc etc etc My point is this: You can spend your life forcing yourself to live with anyone really. I mean most people say you should just try and learn how to love the person you're with again. Well you could do that with anybody really...they don't need to be special. So just pick a name from the phonebook. I understand that marriage works for raising a family and everything but ignore that for a second and explain to me why we humans should go through this because so many of you describe really depressing lives when you talk about your marriages. And even so called happily married people don't seem so great to me. I guess I'm looking for some positivity here despite my negative tone...tell me what makes your spouse special...basically try to "sell" marriage to me... IMO, marriage can be good. It requires both partners working on the marriage and not becoming neglectful. The operative word is BOTH. BOTH partners need to be willing to take a look at themselves and their actions within the marriage. If not, IMO, the marriage will likely fail. I see a lot of people on these forums slinging blame, but the blame is all one sided. If one is going to lay blame, they need to lay some blame on themselves, too, if a marriage is not working. 1
Author Porter56 Posted May 3, 2016 Author Posted May 3, 2016 I do understand the companionship part of marriage. The growing old together, raising kids and creating a home part. What I don't get is why everyone acts as if their spouse is irreplaceable or special. The marriage you've described is just two people deciding to be roommates/parents for life in an attempt to alleviate boredom as you grow old. This notion of falling in love doesn't go with this. I get it...the fantasy movie script is all a load of you know what. But I look at long lasting marriages where people are basically just helping each other pay the bills and keep each other company as being very mundane. At least for me... And I am admittedly not for marriage myself-I enjoy being alone for the most part. I am only speaking for myself but... If it's between being alone or living with someone and trying to "work through it " on a daily basis. I'm choosing to be on my own.
basil67 Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 I've been with my partner for 20+ years and I still look forward to hm coming through the door each evening. I've never felt like that with a flatmate 8
RecentChange Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 Do you not know any long lasting couples that are happy with each other? My grandparents had a life long love affair - married 70 years (70 years!!!) until his passing. I only knew them later in life (okay, and I don't know about their sex life). But they sure seemed happy - laughed and joked, his eyes would still twinkle when he would compliment her beauty - they seemed very much in love, after a life time together. Its not are drudgery and work - its also sharing LOVE, joy, acceptance, compassion - on a level that doesn't compare to a roommate in any way. Sure, like some have pointed out, it does take effort - like they say, you have to tend the garden. But with a bit of tending, water and sun, beautiful flowers can be grown - a dirt lot is easier to maintain, but does not offer as much in return. I guess I can't comment on a "life long" but at 37, I have been in a relationship for 15 years. And yep, we have had a blip or two that required some work put in - but honestly, when compared to the days, weeks, months and years we have shared, the good out weights the bad by a landslide. And we fell in love movie script style. The style that isn't supposed to work I guess. The hot and heavy, lustful, passionate type. It wasn't about a check list of desirable traits, or if on paper we worked - it was chemistry that couldn't be ignored. As for irreplaceable - its something I have thought hard about in our "hard times" - and I came to the conclusion, that for me, he is. I can't imagine anyone else understanding me on the same level he does. Anyone caring for and loving me as much as he does. Simply getting along with any one else in the same way I do with him (he is truly my best friend). Nor can I envision loving someone else as deeply as I love him. Finding someone else which I have SO MUCH in common with. I feel very lucky that we found each other - and that finding a "replacement" would be near impossible. New roommate? Much easier to find 3
Woggle Posted May 3, 2016 Posted May 3, 2016 I will be married 10 years in June and it is better now than it was 10 years ago. 3
Author Porter56 Posted May 4, 2016 Author Posted May 4, 2016 RecentChange, that's exactly the type of relationship I have yet to encounter in my life. I'm a pretty cynical guy really and the way I see things is this... You fall in love and then burn out and things fall apart or...you have a passionless partnership. Basically a roommate you have sex with once a year(Hey Honey! It's my birthday, you know what that means!!! lol) I really believe what SHOULD happen is what you described- fall madly in love and build from there. The intensity will always die down but not go away completely and you learn to love and admire the person in new ways along the way. But... I have yet to witness this in my life. Quite the opposite actually... And on top of all that, I have never felt a connection to a woman. Not even in my immature teen years or in college. I have been attracted to MANY women but only physically. I apologize for being a male pig in advance but to put it simply as I can... I have wanted to go to bed with a lot of women but I have never wanted to wake up next to any of them. I've never felt that feeling for someone. That feeling when you just want to be with them and know everything about them,etc etc etc... And I'm 36 for crying out loud.
Vyliss Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Sounds like you have never really been in love. It's hard if that's the case for you to understand. And when I say love, I mean real love... not lust. Maybe you could look at becoming best friends with a woman instead of just sleeping with her first. Deeper levels of intimacy comes from opening up emotionally. And that's what is required for someone to become a best friend. And then you need to continue to work on this friendship. Try new things together, learn more about each other etc. It's also about putting someone else's needs before you. Experiencing some of these things will help you understand why people get married and stay married. 2
JohnAdams Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 I am an unmarried man in his mid 30s and I was skimming over the posts on this forum as well as thinking about all the marriages I've known in my life and have come to the conclusion that lifelong partnership doesn't make much sense for most people. I have never been envious of any married people I've met or read about. It's always the same thing: She doesn't want sex... He doesn't want sex... We can't get along... We've grown apart... We can't communicate anymore... These are only a few of the awful and depressing things I seem to always hear about marriages, even newlyweds! The standard advice is always generic- think of the kids, communication is important, counseling, etc etc etc My point is this: You can spend your life forcing yourself to live with anyone really. I mean most people say you should just try and learn how to love the person you're with again. Well you could do that with anybody really...they don't need to be special. So just pick a name from the phonebook. I understand that marriage works for raising a family and everything but ignore that for a second and explain to me why we humans should go through this because so many of you describe really depressing lives when you talk about your marriages. And even so called happily married people don't seem so great to me. I guess I'm looking for some positivity here despite my negative tone...tell me what makes your spouse special...basically try to "sell" marriage to me... Often on these types of forums, people concentrate on their issues and problems instead of the positive. I personally know many long term married couples that are very happy. My in-laws who have been married over 60 years and are very happy and very much in love. My son just celebrated his twelfth anniversary and is very happy and in love. I have no doubt they are committed life partners. We recently celebrated our 44th anniversary. We are more happy and in love than ever. We both want and have sex on a daily basis. As a matter of fact, when we woke up this morning, the first thing we did was make love. We get along splendidly and agree on most things. What we disagree on is no big deal and we enjoy discussing anything and everything. As the years have progressed, we have grown even closer. We are each others best friend. Neither of us wants to do anything without the other. We enjoy each other's company. We always take time each evening to just talk. We used to take a hot bath together every night, now we hot tub and enjoy a glass of wine every night and discuss what went on that day. We enjoy our vacations and time together. I still work and travel on my job a lot, but, my priority is my home life and the time I get to spend with my wife. I love my life, I have been very blessed to meet and marry the woman of my dreams. My life partner. I look forward to retiring and spending all of my time with my wife. She is fun, sexy, smart and it is a joy to spend my life with her. 4
Lois_Griffin Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 I guess I'm looking for some positivity here despite my negative tone...tell me what makes your spouse special...basically try to "sell" marriage to me... That's not my job, to sell it to you. Can't be bothered. However, most happy and content people don't spend their time on message boards writing posts about how happy and content they are. I have to admit, that would be boring as hell to read and I'd quit coming here. The overwhelming majority of posters are here for advice or to vent about problems making them unhappy. That's the simple reason you're only seeing problems and strife in most of the posts you read here. You actually made a lot of salient points in your post and a lot of times, I find myself amazed at the sh*t sandwiches some people are willing to eat in order to stay in a marriage at all costs. To me, there isn't a man on this planet worthy of that diet.
carhill Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Does lifelong partnership work? It works for those it works for. IMO, since you're mid-30's and questioning it along the lines of your post content, it is likely it will not work for you. IME, for those it works for, they don't entertain such questions or concerns. It's their path, they believe in themselves and it and live it. They certainly might question particular stops or signposts along the path but the path itself is immutable. When two believers meet and mesh in a healthy way, the results are what I saw a lot of at the dementia facilities when I was caregiving. Old people feeding or talking to or walking or rolling around their spouse who didn't even recognize them anymore. Partners for life. Good on them. 3
Liam1 Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 I really believe what SHOULD happen is what you described- fall madly in love and build from there. The intensity will always die down but not go away completely and you learn to love and admire the person in new ways along the way. But... I have yet to witness this in my life. Quite the opposite actually... And on top of all that, I have never felt a connection to a woman. Not even in my immature teen years or in college. I have been attracted to MANY women but only physically. I apologize for being a male pig in advance but to put it simply as I can... I have wanted to go to bed with a lot of women but I have never wanted to wake up next to any of them. I've never felt that feeling for someone. That feeling when you just want to be with them and know everything about them,etc etc etc... And I'm 36 for crying out loud. Porter: Do not give up. You most likely have not yet met the right woman. Maybe you will meet her, maybe not. I am glad you are happy being single. I was happy being single, too. IMO, a person needs to learn to be happy alone before than can be happy with someone together.
Liam1 Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 However, most happy and content people don't spend their time on message boards writing posts about how happy and content they are. I have to admit, that would be boring as hell to read and I'd quit coming here. The overwhelming majority of posters are here for advice or to vent about problems making them unhappy. That's the simple reason you're only seeing problems and strife in most of the posts you read here. I think you are more speaking from your own thoughts. I personally enjoy reading the posts here and I post because I hope my experience can help others improve their own relationship. I actually find viewing and posting quite entertaining, in between my work. It's like a little mental break from my demanding business environments. You actually made a lot of salient points in your post and a lot of times, I find myself amazed at the sh*t sandwiches some people are willing to eat in order to stay in a marriage at all costs. To me, there isn't a man on this planet worthy of that diet.I do however agree with this. There are so many people here who seem so unhappy. Their spouse had an affair and they feel bitter and angry, yet they still stay married. IMO, if you no longer love your spouse, it's time recognize that and move on. If you can not forgive your spouse, than perhaps you never really truly loved them to begin with and the marriage was just one of convenience.
carhill Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Yeah, being this is a forum which focuses more on relationship problems rather than successful relationships and, generally, people come here when they have problems rather than when their partnership is working, it often seems predominantly negative. The life partnership believers are out there living their beliefs and growing and strengthening their partnerships and, sure, sometimes a few stop by to see what everyone else is doing but mostly they're out there living life. Good phrase - 'marriage of convenience'. Yep, happens. The scary part is when it starts out that way, logically, meaning thinking the ostensibly loving partnership rather than feeling it. Very unlikely to be a life partnership of any health.
Author Porter56 Posted May 4, 2016 Author Posted May 4, 2016 Marriage of convenience...that sums up exactly what I was thinking about. People do put up with a lot of awful stuff just to stay married and don't get why that needs to be the status quo. Everyone acts like you have to stay married no matter what and I just don't agree. There needs to be something there beyond obligation. I understand that on here there's going to be negativity mostly but I see nothing but awful marriages in my life. As long as I can remember the marriages in my family were bad and now all my friends marriages are terrible. I know one guy who cannot stand his wife at all. He admits he actually hates the sound of her voice. So I ask him why he puts himself through this and all he does is raises his hand to show his wedding ring and shrugs and says "when you're married you'll understand" I'm finding it harder as I get older to even talk to women. Let alone marry one of them. 1
Miss Peach Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 IMO, marriage can be good. It requires both partners working on the marriage and not becoming neglectful. The operative word is BOTH. This is one of the biggest things IMO. It's also one of my biggest fears if I do it again. Its not are drudgery and work - its also sharing LOVE, joy, acceptance, compassion - on a level that doesn't compare to a roommate in any way. This is what I tend to hear the most from happy couples. 1
TrustedthenBusted Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 I am an unmarried man in his mid 30s and I was skimming over the posts on this forum as well as thinking about all the marriages I've known in my life and have come to the conclusion that lifelong partnership doesn't make much sense for most people. This won't help me win any popularity contests, but I think marriage - speaking very generally here - is not the best deal for men. On the whole, marriage seems to benefit ladies far more than it does us guys. I think this is evidenced in marriage's relatively poor success metrics. Now before the angry mob gets its pitchforks sharpened, let me say that I do NOT believe that marital failures are any more women's fault than men. Us guys do plenty to tip the odds against ourselves. All I'm saying is that there are benefits to marriage for women ( in general ) that do not exist for men ( in general ) and that this inequity likely plays a big part in the failure figures. 1
Author Porter56 Posted May 4, 2016 Author Posted May 4, 2016 I think women are better at relationships than men in general. Men are terrible at communicating and men tend to have more intimacy issues than women. I include myself in that category. So it's not that it's bad for men so much as it's that men aren't naturally good at being "with " someone in a close/intimate way. And most women I know need this. When one person doesn't help out the other it can become a vicious cycle of two people being resentful towards another and that just won't make a happy home. Just my two cents... 1
oldshirt Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 Partnerships can and often do last a lifetime. What fades is the exhilaration and euphoria of a new crush and the hormonal rush of list that is often at the beginning of a sexual relationship. Those things fade by necessity. No one can live like that forever with one person. However I do believe that love and desire and sexuality can last. But you like keeping a garden alive you have to weed it and fertilize and water it and tend to it continuously. Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and he can feed himself for life. Love and attraction and desire are the same. One must work to stay attractive and desire must be continuously generated to be sustained. When one or both people let themselves go and they get fat and lazy and let themselves go and they get self absorbed in their own lives and neglect their spouse, the desire and intimacy and passion dies. When you see these old couples that flirt and banter and tease each other and are still sexually vigorous. That is not because they are some how mysteriously in love after all of those years. They are still in love after all of those years because they still flirt and banter and tease and are still sexual with each other. They are generating desire and intimacy and passion faster than it can fade. 4
RecentChange Posted May 4, 2016 Posted May 4, 2016 This won't help me win any popularity contests, but I think marriage - speaking very generally here - is not the best deal for men. On the whole, marriage seems to benefit ladies far more than it does us guys. All I'm saying is that there are benefits to marriage for women ( in general ) that do not exist for men ( in general ) and that this inequity likely plays a big part in the failure figures. Just curious -why? What are your examples? I am not necessarily disagreeing, but wondering where this perspective comes from. I think my relationship is atypical in many ways - so not the average / norm / or general - and I am not resentful of it, but if you listed it all out - I think he gets the better end of the deal in our relationship - looking simply at "benefits". I am the bread winner (earn close to double what he does [atypical] - but more households have female bread winners now). I do ALL the cooking / grocery shopping. I do the vast majority of the house cleaning / laundry / domestic chores. He does a bit more yard work than I do - but I pitch in a fair amount. So he gets financial security, fed, home cleaned, laundry washed & folded, love, sex and attention. I get emotional security, love, sex, attention, considerable help with vehicle maintenance and yard work.
ConfusedCloud Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 I'm 24 and I'm actually terrified to get married because 90% of the marriages I have known about in my life have ended in divorce. I have a romanticized idealistic vision of what I want my future marriage to be - but that can come crashing down in a single day if your husband leaves you for another woman, which is all too often, just look at the infidelity forum on this website, that's enough to scare anyone for awhile. This is kind of unrelated, but being my age, I also feel the pressure to get married fairly quickly so that I don't end up in my 30s dating all the ex-husbands out there who have already been divorced. I'm just terrified about the whole concept. People stay together not because everything is fine, they stay together because they love each other enough to CHOOSE to stay together through the hard times (this doesn't include abuse of course) and in my case, it wouldn't include infidelity either. I think this is a major factor that many people overlook in partnerships. We're sold on this fairytale mirage about what marriage is, and once the couple starts feeling a few bumps in the road, they pull over and get out of the car, metaphorically speaking. Of the two marriages I've known to last, were my grandparents and my aunt & uncle. In both cases, the husbands died first, and the women were alone again. In the words of my father, "If the left hook doesn't get you, the right one will." Simply put. Life-long commitment and monogamy is a choice that both partners need to wake up and choose every day to stay together. If one of them doesn't, then the cookie crumbles. I think its possible to last a lifetime with someone. Not easy, but possible.
TrustedthenBusted Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 Just curious -why? What are your examples? I am not necessarily disagreeing, but wondering where this perspective comes from. Well for starters, I have a fairly atypical marriage as well. I do more housework and am more active with the kids, and my wife earns as much money as I do. BUT...if you think about the "typical" situation I think you'll find the following things more often than not: Money: Wife not earning as much, or not having to work at all. A stay home dad is a rare thing. So financially, more women benefit from a quality of life they either could not afford on their own, or do not have to work a 9to5 to obtain. Physical security: I provide this for my wife when we walk around the city, or just sleep in bed at home. While I'm not round the clock security, she is far better off, and much more comfortable living with me, than she would be living alone. I, on the other hand would be fine living alone, and wouldn't have the worry of protecting someone else. Sex: Let's face it...typically men want it, and eventually many women don't. Check any forum anywhere and you will see men complaining about the sex life 10 to 1. And we are not typically big communicators. When we marry, we often find someone to whom we pledge fidelity only to find that the menu shrinks and shrinks and shrinks over time. Most of us don't put up with it for long and out posts move from the marriage forum to the infidelity forum, and ultimately over to the divorce forum. Activities: Again, speaking very generally. I know countless couples who used to do lots of fun things together from sports activities, to traveling, to you name it. But my experience shows me that many men continue to enjoy these activities than do their wives. So a better long term activity partner is often a buddy, and not a spouse. I've heard it said that women marry men expecting the man to change, and he doesn't. Men marry women expecting them NOT to change, and they do. I think there is a lot of wisdom in that.
Tayla Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 And the rational person understands that without change there can be no advancement. The only constant, is change. You are not the same person you were ten years ago, so there ya have it. I am personally allergic to marriage, got my doctors excuse and all Yet In both observing it and sometimes admiring the couples that genuinely are compatible and supportive it does leave an affirmation that all is not lost. I've witnessed the wives who sit with their cancer ridden spouses....with as much dedication and love that can be done without a word said. Its an experience that while on the outside may seem dreary, for that couple...its those moments that are tender and more supportive then the house, career, or any of that outside stuff....they are companions, best friends, and each others source of strength. True fact, Losing your spouse or child is the #1 Life Stress event. So that says something about human kind....and marriage/partnerships. Divorce ranked third. Since that is a loss as well of a different sort. If in your eyes marriage is a farce, then why is it number 1 in Life Event when the partner is left alone? think about it.... 2
wmacbride Posted May 5, 2016 Posted May 5, 2016 I've been with my partner for 20+ years and I still look forward to hm coming through the door each evening. I've never felt like that with a flatmate Same here. I've had several relationships in my life, some of them long term. It wasn't the same.
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