mikeylo Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 Some people just arent cut out to have committed relationships, what do yall think? So many threads on -- emotional cheating -- physical cheating -- high demands / expectations -- asking the other to accept their BS what they themselves wouldnt -- labeling them as jealous / insecure / crazy when themselves are the contributors -- gas lighting While we all are faulty to some extent but I'm talking about repeat offenders. Many just want their partner to suck it up as thats how its 'supposed' to be otherwise their partner gets labelled instantly. Such people dont even break up because they are so in love! Duh.When they do happen, they are the ones to cry the most as they got called-on to their behavior but still dont accept their role. even if they do, they turn it around somehow and become blame free ! Twisted. A committed relationship is hard to maintain.It comes with compromise , sacrifice , ready to change oneself and whole lot of personality traits. Some people just arent relationship material but they deeply want one but dont have a clue how to and in the process ruin themselves more at every step.Those who move on from them are fortunate enough. 1
Gloria25 Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 Now a days you have people without God in their lives, marrying for all the wrong reasons, no knowledge and/or care for what marriage, family, vows actually entail...add the self-centeredness and you have what we have now a days - lots of cheating, divorces, and broken homes. 1
Author mikeylo Posted April 30, 2016 Author Posted April 30, 2016 Agreed. Many people don't have good role models as to how a relationship is to be like , how it needs to be taken care of and nurtured every single moment and they are not to be taken for granted. I wouldn't though say that its about ' these days '. Today's people are from role models of yesterday. What I have experienced is that more issues a person has , the higher they have expectations from their partner and can't even fulfil quarter of what they are getting. They take same issues from one relationship to another. Then they find some whom they love like crazy but repeat their issues. The new partner gives chances , probably unlike others before but , they repeat the same again and again. People want to be accepted as they are but it doesn't mean that they continue their BS and say : that's how I am, accept me. Time again this happens. It's easier to ask someone to accept the way they are but don't reciprocate! Sometimes I feel sad when I read posts where writing is on the wall but people don't want to see within themselves and their contributing actions. 2
carhill Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 Some people just arent relationship material but they deeply want one but dont have a clue how to and in the process ruin themselves more at every step.Those who move on from them are fortunate enough. That's possible, though I'd be loathe to make any life-long predictions since individuals generally don't remain static throughout life. IME, for those who do demonstrate the characteristics in your list and are in committed relationships, for whatever length and with whatever health, it boils down to two things: 1. They're attractive enough to balance out the list items in a manner which others find positive 2. They engage and attract people who are relationship material and want to commit to them, regardless of their personal milieu or feelings about those they engage and attract.
Gloria25 Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 Agreed. Many people don't have good role models as to how a relationship is to be like , how it needs to be taken care of and nurtured every single moment and they are not to be taken for granted. I wouldn't though say that its about ' these days '. Today's people are from role models of yesterday. What I have experienced is that more issues a person has , the higher they have expectations from their partner and can't even fulfil quarter of what they are getting. They take same issues from one relationship to another. Then they find some whom they love like crazy but repeat their issues. The new partner gives chances , probably unlike others before but , they repeat the same again and again. People want to be accepted as they are but it doesn't mean that they continue their BS and say : that's how I am, accept me. Time again this happens. It's easier to ask someone to accept the way they are but don't reciprocate! Sometimes I feel sad when I read posts where writing is on the wall but people don't want to see within themselves and their contributing actions. Well, that's why I sorta started my thread the other day on why do women marry. You have some women complaining about their SO cheating - yet, these women sit here whining about how all he wanted was sex/attention and she was too tired/busy for his whining. How he was a homeless guy who expected her to pay half of her engagement ring. And, I'm like "hello" look at who you pick to build a marriage/family with again and look at your attitude... It's very simple, like my fav podcaster says: "Chose wisely, treat kindly". I think a lot of people now a days who are procreating and/or marrying have "issues" cuz they also are coming from homes with divorces and dysfunction. Also, I don't know where the disconnect came from with people who had traditional values. I think a lot of it has to do with the women's movement. I use my neighbor as an example a lot cuz he's a good example of what happens to a guy raised by a woman who hates men and/or wants to control men. He thinks wife material is whether or not she eats greasy hamburgers and/or farts around him...
Arieswoman Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 Mikeyli, You said ; Some people just arent cut out to have committed relationships, what do yall think? So many threads on -- emotional cheating -- physical cheating -- high demands / expectations -- asking the other to accept their BS what they themselves wouldnt -- labeling them as jealous / insecure / crazy when themselves are the contributors -- gas lighting And I would say that you are getting a slanted viewpoint about what relationships are about. People tend not to come to LS to tell everyone what a great relationship they've got ( they do that on FB:rolleyes:) they tend to come here because they have concerns and want advice. LS is just one microcosm of society and IMO not a very representative one. 6
katiegrl Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 Gloria, you wrote "back in the day, a man came home to food on the table, and a nice, sweet smelling woman who wasn't tired from pulling a 9 to 5..." With respect, are you f'ing kidding me? My mom had five kids to raise "back in the day" and was more exhausted than had she worked 9 to 5 outside the home!! Same holds true today. SAHMs don't live the easy pampered lives who are nice and sweet smelling when their husband's come home. Many work harder than women outside the home. You have a very idealistic and unrealistic view of what many SAHMs experience on a daily basis IMO. 2
carhill Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 Actually, having seen it (SAHM) first-hand, that was pretty much it. Hard work, for sure, being a home manager, but it was afternoon newspaper on the end table and a fresh-cooked meal on the table between 5 and 5:30pm and no interruptions until father relaxed a bit. I think the only time TV interrupted dinner was when JFK/RFK/MLK were killed and when Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. The phone went unanswered. That's what the team worked out. They were the center of the family. A successful marriage takes two committed people who work as a team. Each team defines their own work. My description was overwhelmingly common in my neighborhood and time. Today, of course, is different, as is how people define relationship material. Heh, I saw a little of the holdover from the old days in our team when exW would call in the evening when closing the salon and I'd have 30 minutes or so to get dinner together. Roles changed but the team was still the focus. 2
Gloria25 Posted April 30, 2016 Posted April 30, 2016 Gloria, you wrote "back in the day, a man came home to food on the table, and a nice, sweet smelling woman who wasn't tired from pulling a 9 to 5..." With respect, are you f'ing kidding me? My mom had five kids to raise "back in the day" and was more exhausted than had she worked 9 to 5 outside the home!! Same holds true today. SAHMs don't live the easy pampered lives who are nice and sweet smelling when their husband's come home. Many work harder than women outside the home. You have a very idealistic and unrealistic view of what many SAHMs experience on a daily basis IMO. My grandma had 10 kids, she had to hire people to come and help and kids had chores. Not saying raising one kid is a cake walk, but some women can pull off raisng kids and still be a wife. For the women who prioritize popping out kids over being sweet and sexy for their husband then I must ask, "Why did you get married?" Cuz if your goal in life is to be spent chasing around kids till your tired, you can get a career as a nanny, day care worker and/or go live in a shoe with all your kids and cry about not knowing what you're gonna do with all those kids. We're not in the Middle East - where women are forced into marriages/kids. If after the 1st or 2nd kid a woman didn't realize how much work it takes to raise a kid, then maybe she needs to get her IQ checked.
Gloria25 Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 Gloria, you wrote "back in the day, a man came home to food on the table, and a nice, sweet smelling woman who wasn't tired from pulling a 9 to 5..." With respect, are you f'ing kidding me? My mom had five kids to raise "back in the day" and was more exhausted than had she worked 9 to 5 outside the home!! Same holds true today. SAHMs don't live the easy pampered lives who are nice and sweet smelling when their husband's come home. Many work harder than women outside the home. You have a very idealistic and unrealistic view of what many SAHMs experience on a daily basis IMO. And you raise a good point here.... Funny how women are quick to dump off their kids in daycare - where you got one minimum wage worker having to contend with X amount of kids, yet believe their kid is best served by daycare instead of them staying at home with their kids...Cuz if a "mother" is pulling out her hair trying to raise hew own five kids, how is a daycare worker better?
MuddyFootprints Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 I wish I were the perfect wife and mother I was before I got married and had kids. It was much more satisfying to out-woman wives and moms when I was an expert. 4
katiegrl Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 (edited) My grandma had 10 kids, she had to hire people to come and help and kids had chores. Not saying raising one kid is a cake walk, but some women can pull off raisng kids and still be a wife. For the women who prioritize popping out kids over being sweet and sexy for their husband then I must ask, "Why did you get married?" Cuz if your goal in life is to be spent chasing around kids till your tired, you can get a career as a nanny, day care worker and/or go live in a shoe with all your kids and cry about not knowing what you're gonna do with all those kids. We're not in the Middle East - where women are forced into marriages/kids. If after the 1st or 2nd kid a woman didn't realize how much work it takes to raise a kid, then maybe she needs to get her IQ checked. Last I checked, *both* the husband and wife choose to have kids and raise a family, not just the woman. Both people fell in love and decided to get married, not just the woman. Both people decide that the husband work and his wife stays home with the kids, not just the woman. My mom AND dad chose to have five kids cuz frankly my dad was from a large family and wanted a large family himself and THAT is why they BOTH decided to have five kids. So stop blaming the woman... they are married, a team. They make decisions TOGETHER. My mom was often exhausted at the end of the day. Raising five kids that both she and my dad chose to have. They were married for 15 years. My mom was a model in New York, very beautiful. Even at the end of the day. And dinner for *seven* was on the table every night at 6:00. No fresh flowers on the table though. Usually a large roast that my dad carved and served, to the five kids that both he and my mom chose to have. Gloria, I agree with your posts most of the time, but this notion of a woman who stays home changing diapers and burping babies all day, that they both chose to have, being all fresh and sweet, and sexy?..... with dinner on the table, flowers in the vase, etc., when her husband, the father of *their* kids that they *mutually* agreed to have, comes home every day is absolutely ludicrous. That sounds like something straight out of The Stepford Wives. Do you live in the real world? Beginning to wonder quite frankly. Edited May 1, 2016 by katiegrl 1
katiegrl Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 (edited) And to add to previous post, if a man wants his wife --- the mother of his kids, that they mutually agreed to have, and that she stays home with every day, feeding and chasing around like crazy woman ---- sweet smelling and sexy every evening, with dinner on the table, martini in hand, when he arrives home, perhaps he should get her a full time nanny or housekeeper! He earns the money after all. That's the least he could do. Edited May 1, 2016 by katiegrl 1
Gloria25 Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 Last I checked, *both* the husband and wife choose to have kids and raise a family, not just the woman. Both people fell in love and decided to get married, not just the woman. Both people decide that the husband work and his wife stays home with the kids, not just the woman. My mom AND dad chose to have five kids cuz frankly my dad was from a large family and wanted a large family himself and THAT is why they BOTH decided to have five kids. So stop blaming the woman... they are married, a team. They make decisions TOGETHER. My mom was often exhausted at the end of the day. Raising five kids that both she and my dad chose to have. They were married for 15 years. My mom was a model in New York, very beautiful. Even at the end of the day. And dinner for *seven* was on the table every night at 6:00. No fresh flowers on the table though. Usually a large roast that my dad carved and served, to the five kids that both he and my mom chose to have. Gloria, I agree with your posts most of the time, but this notion of a woman who stays home changing diapers and burping babies all day, that they both chose to have, being all fresh and sweet, and sexy?..... with dinner on the table, flowers in the vase, etc., when her husband, the father of *their* kids that they *mutually* agreed to have, comes home every day is absolutely ludicrous. That sounds like something straight out of The Stepford Wives. Do you live in the real world? Beginning to wonder quite frankly. And to add to previous post, if a man wants his wife --- the mother of his kids, that they mutually agreed to have, and that she stays home with every day, feeding and chasing around like crazy woman ---- sweet smelling and sexy every evening, with dinner on the table, martini in hand, when he arrives home, perhaps he should get her a full time nanny or housekeeper! He earns the money after all. That's the least he could do. How many couples do you know of who actually do pre-marital counseling where how many kids, how they will be raised, who will pay for what actually takes place? We have many couples out there who just marry and "life" happens and they don't plan out realistically how things are gonna work. They just do it on the fly and just stick with it cuz they're so knee deep in it that they don't know/cannot afford to leave the marriage and/or are too scared to leave and be alone. Have you actually had a honest and heart-to-heart, candid, no holds barred conversation with your dad to see if five kids and coming home to an upset and tired wife is what he envisioned the day he put a ring on your mom's finger? I'm sure he, and other single men wouldn't dare get married if they had a crystal ball and saw that the rest of their life would consist of no/little sex, coming home every day to a tired and upset wife and unkept home and screaming kids. Let's do a poll, ask single men that if they would give up single life to have kids, a miserable wife and unkept home and little to no sex. See, thing is, many guys marry in the honeymoon stage of dating. Women are on their best behavior. They're dressing sweetly, making themselves available, etc. and the guy is thinking 'Wow, this is the woman I gotta lock down for life'. He proposes, they don't do pre-marital counseling (cuz feelings, going on dates doesn't mean that person and you are on the same sheet of music and/or know what being a wife/husband/parent entails) and get married. And, here comes the kids...here come the bills, here comes her tired and not wanting sex anymore. The guy starts getting "trained" and he starts "rationalizing" - in other words, he starts settling for "what is". He makes up in his mind that "Well, sex once a month is better than none...there's other stuff I love about her". And, before you know it, they got five kids and he's stuck. Men are simple creatures, they put up with a lot of crap just go get some sex. So, after your dad (and other guys) are a kid and two in, they just settle and go with the flow. Then, when the kids are up and out, people call it a "Mid-life crisis" when in fact the man is freakin' happy that he no longer has kids keeping him in this miserable prison sentence. Men are so freakin' weird. I was listening to this guy who called my fav podcaster. Three kids in and he's miserable. My fav podcaster asked 'How did you make three kids with a woman like her?' And, he was like 'Well, he just wanted to make her happy, so he knocked her up'...See, guys will do anything to please women and to make them happy and they "think" the woman will reciprocate. Often these guys are desperate and enter into marriage cuz they think it's the only way they're gonna get laid. Then, come the demands and he thinks if he keeps on feeding the dragon she'll show him some sugar...and before you know it, he's three kids in and miserable as heck. So, I ask you again...run a poll of single men. Ask them that if they would give up their single life for kids, bills, and drama - cuz trust me, when they're dating and all enthralled with getting vagina and her looking sweet, last thing on their mind is a life of little to no sex, bills, and a messy home with screaming kids.
katiegrl Posted May 1, 2016 Posted May 1, 2016 Actually my dad didn't have it so bad ..... and I have asked him and he said he wouldn't trade having us kids for anything in the world. He would do it all over again if he had the choice. In fact when he and my mom divorced, he remarried and had three more kids with my stepmom! He was the best dad in the world and loved us all. All eight of us. Our house was always spotless (well except for the fridge lol) and my mom tried hard to be sweet and sexy for my dad when he arrived home. but it was very difficult. She always looked very pretty though even when chasing the younger ones around all day. And as I said, she cooked dinner for SEVEN every single night. So I give her credit for that. Even though she often felt very overwhelmed. Again, it was dad who wanted all the kids, she wanted to make him happy so agreed. As for other men in the same situation, I can't speak to that as I don't know them or their particular situations. You probably have s point though. 1
Arieswoman Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 Gloria25 - post #14 How many couples do you know of who actually do pre-marital counseling where how many kids, how they will be raised, who will pay for what actually takes place? All couples that are proposing to get married in a Roman Catholic Church have to attend a "pre-Cana" course, where all these issues are discussed. On occasion couples do re-think the idea of getting married/having children after attending. I agree that there should be pre-marriage counselling available to couples who are choosing secular weddings. 2
Arieswoman Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) san f, is reading the ny times required? I don't get the joke. But when you think that raising kids is the most responsible job you will even have to do that requires absolutely no qualifications or training it's scary. Edited May 2, 2016 by Arieswoman
Gloria25 Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) Gloria25 - post #14 All couples that are proposing to get married in a Roman Catholic Church have to attend a "pre-Cana" course, where all these issues are discussed. On occasion couples do re-think the idea of getting married/having children after attending. I agree that there should be pre-marriage counselling available to couples who are choosing secular weddings. I agree with you in part... Cuz really, regardless if you believe in God and/or doing a civil, secular, etc wedding, at the end of the day, you benefit from pre-marital counseling. Why? Cuz all the un-romantic stuff is discussed (bills, sex frequency, expectations, amount of kids, where you'll live, careers/education). Cuz marriage is serious stuff. You gotta be practical and you need an experience counselor to guide you two on raising important issues, reaching a consensus, and even deciding if you two should reconsider marrying each other. You gotta make sure that person and you are on the same level with a lot of things. Worst, once you marry - more than likely you're gonna have kids, so if you two start out weak, the kids will suffer regardless if you two divorce or stay together and be miserable. And no, love doesn't conquer all. You can love someone all you want, but if they want three kids and you only want one, there's gonna be issues. If you want sex twice a week and they want it five times a week, there's gonna be issues. If you want to go back to school and you two can barely put money together to pay the bills, much less school, then there's issues. Gotta be practical, discuss the issues, have a plan. Not "wing" it cuz you two had so much fun while dating and think each other are sooo cute. I'm not a big fan of pre-marital counseling done by a priest and/or by the church, cuz I believe they're gonna base the counseling on religious guidance - and that may limit the necessary topics that need to be raised/discussed. Also, the church is gonna have a limited view on some issues (i.e. missionary sex only?). Lastly, a priest isn't a trained counselor and IMO, shouldn't be all in your business. At least with a counselor, you have an expectation of privacy and it's not like you gotta see the counselor every time you take your family to church. And actually, pre-marital counseling should take place over months once you both get engaged, cuz when stuff comes up it doesn't come up after one or two sessions, it comes up over time and you can raise them on your weekly, bi-weekly and/or monthly counseling sessions. For example, during the engagement, you two are trying to decide if you should move in together, should you have sex...ok, next session those are important issues that can be raised (i.e. views on pre-marital sex, expectations when it comes to sex before/after marriage). And you know what, IMO, some people see red flags and/or issues, but they are too scared to raise/address them cuz they already set a wedding date. The counselor is unbiased/objective and can force the couple to hash out any issues before marriage instead of plowing through cuz they already are engaged, have a wedding date, and/or are having sex, living together, bought a house already, etc. Edited May 2, 2016 by Gloria25
Liam1 Posted May 2, 2016 Posted May 2, 2016 Sometimes I feel sad when I read posts where writing is on the wall but people don't want to see within themselves and their contributing actions. I agree with that. I see it here in postings all the time. Some people just refuse to see their part in relationship issues. IMO, however, if both spouses are willing to take a look at their faults and compromise than the marriage can be saved. If not, it's doomed. If one spouse is so terrible that they ALONE are truly to blame for all the issues in the marriage, then the spouse who feels they are the better one, the nicer one, the kinder one the perfect or the flawless one, can and likely should get a divorce. There is an article at the Reader's Digest website, with the title, 13 things your Marriage counselor will not tell you. One of them is that when one spouse says they are the "GOOD ONE", the MC then knows that one is the problem. I mean seriously if a person sees their self as perfect and the other spouse seriously non-redeemabley flawed, why stay married?
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