The attorney consulation

[amaysngrace]

I know you're upset but it doesn't seem like your daughter had the best home life. It may be better for her to have two happy parents in two homes than two unhappy parents in one home. That may set her up for all kinds of struggles in her relationships if she thinks open hostility or lack of affection or whatever your guys' deal was is normal.

 

Kids are resilient and like Dr Phil says, "children would rather be from a broken home than live in one".

[BlueIris]

You said that he has a stressful job and that he goes out to party, so I’m wondering how much parenting he does now. Is he an involved dad who does parenting tasks? Some people fight for parenting time to decrease the amount of support they pay but they don’t really want to do parenting. If that’s the case for him, you might get the relocation even if he bluffs.

[amaysngrace]

How old is your daughter?

[lunajane]

Yuck. The minute you start talking about bargaining chips this is going to be a long drawn out contest that costs a fortune.

 

You don't get everything you want in a divorce, at least not without an expensive fight. You want to move. That's on you. Expecting your EX to move is unrealistic.

 

Do not wait for your EX to get a job. The court will set CS based on what he's capable of earning. I do agree with the lawyer that a forensic accountant would be a good investment.

 

Do not count on alimony. It's a highly disfavored concept. Unless you were a SAHM who paid for your husband to get his degree while you were married, there may not be a basis for it. Then again, if he was earning $150k while you made minimum wage, there is something to be said for the lifestyle to which you have become accustomed.

 

Anything you & your EX can agree on amicably will reduce your overall expenditures on lawyers. If the lawyers have to split up every item you jointly own that is a lot of lawyer time. Instead if you two can create a list & give it to the attorney so all that person has to do is plug it into a property settlement agreement format that will be more more cost effective for you.

 

Remember the more you dig in your heels, the more expensive the divorce. One of my BFFs who is a divorce lawyer says the biggest mistake people make is thinking it's 50/50. It's not. Usually you get 1/3; your EX gets 1/3 and the 2 lawyers split the other 1/3. If you really fight & contest everything it is 50/50. You & your spouse split 50% of your assets & the lawyers take the other 50%.

 

If the relocation issue makes things messy, I'll drop it. I'm perfectly happy living in FL. I just was thinking about NC as an option. I do miss my family. But I don't want to dig in my heels over anything. I want this over as quickly and painlessly as possible.

 

I do believe he should pay me alimony, though. I quit my job to move to FL for his job. i was a SAHM for five years. I believe he should support me for a time until I can get on my feet. I think that's fair.

 

Our plan is to work as much as we can on the agreements ourselves in order to expedite the process and keep costs low so we have more assets to split in the end.

[lunajane]

I know you're upset but it doesn't seem like your daughter had the best home life. It may be better for her to have two happy parents in two homes than two unhappy parents in one home. That may set her up for all kinds of struggles in her relationships if she thinks open hostility or lack of affection or whatever your guys' deal was is normal.

 

Kids are resilient and like Dr Phil says, "children would rather be from a broken home than live in one".

 

We are getting divorced. She will have two parents in two different homes.

 

And I completely agree with what you said. I'm sorry if anything I said was confusing.

 

My daughter is seven.

[lunajane]

You said that he has a stressful job and that he goes out to party, so I’m wondering how much parenting he does now. Is he an involved dad who does parenting tasks? Some people fight for parenting time to decrease the amount of support they pay but they don’t really want to do parenting. If that’s the case for him, you might get the relocation even if he bluffs.

 

He could be a better dad. I hope he will step up and do that.

 

I hope he'll be a more involved dad if he doesn't have to be a husband to me.

 

I also hope he's not bluffing about wanting to spend time with her so he doesn't have to pay more support.

[carhill]

Our plan is to work as much as we can on the agreements ourselves in order to expedite the process and keep costs low so we have more assets to split in the end.

 

Crunch the numbers on a mediator-prepared settlement versus two lawyers plowing through the details. Of course, the lawyers will review.

 

I mention this because of your focus on costs. Our court had a mediator referral that worked our already negotiated (among us) content into legal form for free, I had my lawyer review for my side and done. Free is a lot cheaper than 360per. Heh. Frankly, I was amazed at how many family law resources the court had available. Impressed. All we had to do was ask. Of course that meant spending time at the courthouse. Time has value too so keep that in mind.

[amaysngrace]

My daughter is seven.

 

That's around the same age my little ones were when I got divorced. Her extended family may be the best thing for her right now.

 

How are the schools in both places?

[lunajane]

That's another issue. She's in a very good gifted magnet program. She loves her school.

 

I don't know if I could get her a space in the full time gifted elementary in NC.

 

Although I probably would just put her in a good public school to minimize her stress.

 

What are your thoughts about my post further up about our telling her?

Edited April 29, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BlueIris]

He could be a better dad. I hope he will step up and do that.

 

I hope he'll be a more involved dad if he doesn't have to be a husband to me.

 

I also hope he's not bluffing about wanting to spend time with her so he doesn't have to pay more support.

 

I hope so too!

 

While I think most parents sincerely want as much time with their kiddos as possible, just thought I'd give you a heads up that sometimes this is a crocodile tears ploy so don't get taken in. It happens, sad to say. I hope you can relocate back to family. As you said, he might relocate anyway and that's a good indicator of how much this matters to him.

[amaysngrace]

The most important thing to stress to her is that it's not her fault and she did nothing wrong to make it happen.

 

And also that you both love her very much and will both be there for her for all of her life.

 

Then you both need to love her more than you can't stand each other.

[lunajane]

How did your little ones take it when you told them?

[lunajane]

I would like to ask my husband for alimony for five years so I can attend a part time certification program to become a teacher. I would like to substitute teach during the day while in this program. I'm hoping this arrangement will keep my daughter's home life as close as possible to what she's used to, i.e. no before or after care, no summer care.

 

I'm sure my husband is thinking I will get a full time job. I will if he doesn't agree with the above arrangement.

 

I really don't want to come across as a freeloader. I'm not. It makes me uncomfortable to discuss this stuff. And I don't want to be unreasonable.

 

We've discussed a temporary visitation arrangement where she'll be with him on weekends and for dinner a couple of nights a week.

 

When we work on the permanent agreement, she will have to do before and aftercare if he wants overnight visitation during the week. I don't know if he will. He may stick with the weekend thing because it's easier for him. That sounds harsh, but I'm dealing with a lot of reality lately.

[amaysngrace]

How did your little ones take it when you told them?

 

They were happy because my exH was both physically abusive and often extremely mean towards us. And they still sometimes blamed themselves for how he acts.

 

That's why I say you can't stress it enough to her that you both love her and she did nothing to cause it.

[carhill]

Sounds like you've established the one positive aspect of the divorce to focus on, quality of life for the kids. Make sure your attorney knows that and that you're willing to heavily compromise on other issues to make this one work out.

[Jersey born raised]

I am confused about a number of issue. It seems the two biggest and basic questions that needed to be discussed where glossed over.

 

First, most states it takes a battle to a move significant distance by the primary custodian from the other spouse. Some states have statutes stating milage. Failure to comply can lead to an arrest warrant. Going forward you will three sources of funding,

 

Alimony where you move should make no difference in alimony. States always have broad outlines clearly delineating amounts and length. To change these guidelines ether an exception is found, both parties agree to a modification (such as a lump sum payout) or in your case your husband says screw that, takes a powder and goes off the grid.

 

The other source of funding is child support. A spouse like your husband will often waive custody in return for a significant reduction in child support, alimony and asset division.

 

The final sources is asset division. Again this tends to be very cut and dry.

 

I suggest you need to speak to another lawyer.

[amaysngrace]

Child support is a set amount. You can't negotiate to pay less than what is required because that's not in the best interest of the children.

[lunajane]

This was only my initial free consultation, so there was a lot of information rapidly gone through. He did outline fairly thoroughly the process for agreeing on all three of those sources of funding you mentioned.

 

I assume he would go more in depth once I retain him.

[Jersey born raised]

Two other points both related to exposure. Do not allow him to explain one on one to your daughter. Her world view is about to be shaped by a life alternation event. Do not let it be based on a lie.

 

Second exposure to others. Do it to family to start. Your opening post is a good start but flush it out more.

 

I have a great link on how and the importance of exposure in the case of adultety. Read carefully you can begin to sense the underlying logic of why, what, and how to expose but in general may be to off topic.

 

Try searching "how to expose in the case of a walk away spouse".

[lunajane]

It's hard to face the day. My life was so different only a week ago.

 

He assures me that there's nothing I could have done. He doesn't want to go to counseling.

 

I gave him tons of space and freedom because I thought that would help him to be happier. He had lots of stress at work. But then he walked out the door.

 

Maybe if I'd done the opposite, this wouldn't have happened. He says if I'd done the opposite, things would have ended sooner.

 

I just can't help but wonder if there was something I could have done.

 

We fought no more than any married couples do. Probably much less. Again, I didn't want to stress him out. But I guess we were fighting about the wrong things.

 

I built a life in FL that he didn't want be a part of. I thought it was a happy life, full of friends, activities, traditions. I never understood why he didn't want to participate. He wanted to hang out with his friends at bars. But should I have built a different life? I don't how to incorporate bar hopping and a toddler, though.

 

He wanted to have a child. He told me he was ready. But then he never really seemed to like being a father. A family man. At least not in the traditional sense.

 

I realize now that I made a huge mistake in choosing this man as the father of my child. And now her life will be forever changed, really, because of me.

 

Ugh. This ****ing sucks. Don't want to get out of bed.

[Conclude]

I'm only a month ahead of you, but I had one of these days yesterday. I don't think there is much you can do in the bed situation other than embrace the feelings and know you'll get better. What you're going through really does suck, but with time, you will get a grip on yourself.

 

The first week for me was the hardest. After that, I had to essentially start compartmentalizing my emotions due to school, and now that school is closing, a lot of feelings are resurging. I dont recommend that route. There were times where I had to just break down and feel it, and I think they were more intense because I was trying to function as a full time student and hold back from the emotions.

 

What you're going through is just like the death of a family member. It's more, it is the death of a way of life. Don't short change yourself in the emotions you'll experience. Every time I have grieved for real so far, it seemed to make things more acceptable as time goes on. I think the best advice I've seen here is to grieve the loss of who your partner used to be. They are no longer the same person, for better or for worse. I'll keep you in my thoughts. You aren't alone in experiencing this.

[elaine567]

Two other points both related to exposure. Do not allow him to explain one on one to your daughter. Her world view is about to be shaped by a life alternation event. Do not let it be based on a lie.

 

Agreed

I read somewhere that some guy who was actually cheating and was the cause of the divorce, told his kids he was leaving so Mommy could see other men...

Be careful.

[Conclude]

I wanted to add: Make sure you are eating enough. I had to force myself to eat enough(though I wasn't always doing it), and eventually I started realizing that was part of the reason I was feeling so bad at first was because I was hungry all the time. You would be surprised what a mood enhancer a full stomach can be right now. I was repulsed by anything I ate, and there were days I didn't eat, but in the long run, getting back to eating normally made me feel better.

 

If you add exercise to that you will be finding yourself better equipped for the task ahead. Every time I finish a workout, it is like a temporary relief at the time and confidence booster in the long run. Good luck.

[oldshirt]

It's hard to face the day. My life was so different only a week ago.

 

He assures me that there's nothing I could have done. He doesn't want to go to counseling.

 

I gave him tons of space and freedom because I thought that would help him to be happier. He had lots of stress at work. But then he walked out the door.

 

Maybe if I'd done the opposite, this wouldn't have happened. He says if I'd done the opposite, things would have ended sooner.

 

I just can't help but wonder if there was something I could have done.

 

We fought no more than any married couples do. Probably much less. Again, I didn't want to stress him out. But I guess we were fighting about the wrong things.

 

I built a life in FL that he didn't want be a part of. I thought it was a happy life, full of friends, activities, traditions. I never understood why he didn't want to participate. He wanted to hang out with his friends at bars. But should I have built a different life? I don't how to incorporate bar hopping and a toddler, though.

 

He wanted to have a child. He told me he was ready. But then he never really seemed to like being a father. A family man. At least not in the traditional sense.

 

I realize now that I made a huge mistake in choosing this man as the father of my child. And now her life will be forever changed, really, because of me.

 

Ugh. This ****ing sucks. Don't want to get out of bed.

 

 

 

Sadly, I think he is telling the truth for the most part and I also believe you are correct.

 

 

There is a good number of people in the world that it is simply not in their nature to be a loyal spouse and parent. While many find safety and security and kinship being in a family unit, to these people it is a dungeon and prison that keeps them from pursuing whatever fun pastime that pops up on their radar and family responsibilities are nothing more than shackles that keep them from chasing their whims.

 

 

Your husband sounds to me like he may be one of these people.

 

 

I don't think you could've done anything different once you were married and had a child. I believe he is being sincere that if you had held his feet to the fire and insisted he be an involved parent home every evening, he would've bolted years ago.

 

 

I am just a stranger on an internet forum but my suspicions are that once you are divorced and are having some kind of shared custody arrangement, it will just be a matter of time before he is willing to hand her back over to you and let you do whatever you want.

 

 

Currently his primary focus seems to be keeping his costs down in the divorce and he wants to pay the least amount of child support and alimony and divorce costs etc etc. He isn't thinking long term lifestyle.

 

 

My hunch is once he is having his custody weekends and picking her up from school and having to take her to doctor's appointments etc on his days during the week, he will soon hand her over on a silver platter.

 

 

Once he finds some hot chicky that wants his focused attention, he won't be able to hand her over quick enough. And if he comes across some sweet job pie in the sky job opportunity across the country, he will be glad to work out a new arrangement too.

 

 

It will just be a matter of days, weeks, months or a year or so before he realizes that his freedom and being a bachelor single dude mean more to him than cost savings of child support.

 

 

At that point he won't care if you are in Fl or NC or Disneyland. He'll just want to be out from under the yoke of parenthood.

[oldshirt]

Sadly, I think he is telling the truth for the most part and I also believe you are correct.

 

 

There is a good number of people in the world that it is simply not in their nature to be a loyal spouse and parent. While many find safety and security and kinship being in a family unit, to these people it is a dungeon and prison that keeps them from pursuing whatever fun pastime that pops up on their radar and family responsibilities are nothing more than shackles that keep them from chasing their whims.

 

 

Your husband sounds to me like he may be one of these people.

 

 

I don't think you could've done anything different once you were married and had a child. I believe he is being sincere that if you had held his feet to the fire and insisted he be an involved parent home every evening, he would've bolted years ago.

 

 

I am just a stranger on an internet forum but my suspicions are that once you are divorced and are having some kind of shared custody arrangement, it will just be a matter of time before he is willing to hand her back over to you and let you do whatever you want.

 

 

Currently his primary focus seems to be keeping his costs down in the divorce and he wants to pay the least amount of child support and alimony and divorce costs etc etc. He isn't thinking long term lifestyle.

 

 

My hunch is once he is having his custody weekends and picking her up from school and having to take her to doctor's appointments etc on his days during the week, he will soon hand her over on a silver platter.

 

 

Once he finds some hot chicky that wants his focused attention, he won't be able to hand her over quick enough. And if he comes across some sweet job pie in the sky job opportunity across the country, he will be glad to work out a new arrangement too.

 

 

It will just be a matter of days, weeks, months or a year or so before he realizes that his freedom and being a bachelor single dude mean more to him than cost savings of child support.

 

 

At that point he won't care if you are in Fl or NC or Disneyland. He'll just want to be out from under the yoke of parenthood.

 

 

 

 

 

......These guys are good looking, charming, exciting, sexy, ambitious, have a string of seemingly good jobs and good career prospects and seem a winning lottery ticket when dating..

 

 

.....But then turn out to be a complete bust and nightmare once married and children come along.

 

 

 

 

There's even a very very dark side to these guys. There are extreme examples like Scot Peterson (not sure I have the exact name right) and many others that actually kill their pregnant wives/GFs or abuse them to the point of losing their babies in an effort to keep from being tied down with a wife and children.

 

 

Once the light is shined on these guys, it always turns out they have had a series of girlfriends and hook ups and chickies on the side throughout the duration of the marriage.

 

 

Your husband does not sound like a killer or an abuser or anything like that, but you will soon find that he has probably had a string of chicks on the side and that he finally got to the point he wants to be single again and wants to make it official.

 

 

He is just not husband or father material and in time, he will be glad to let you have the daughter and he may show up periodically for big events in her life with a big present, but that will be about it :-(