Am I going about this casual relationship wrong?

[Versacehottie]

F. Happily discover that things can continue as they are.

 

Geez, all those guys I dated in my 20's with whom I had no intention of happily-ever-after, yet I behaved pretty much like a gf because I was a gf, just not one with a "forever" future.

 

OP, talk to her. It's not impossible that she's on the same page you are.

 

Oh, yes totally possible that it's "F", which I said in a later post. I guess I meant that OP doesn't have the courage to tell her because he doesn't want to upset the balance of what he has for reasons 1-5.

 

BTW, I forgot the most important one which is more and more apparent as he posts. It's an ego boost for him. He gets to think of himself as a good "boyfriend" who takes her out, pays for her, says and does romantic things and thinks because she is enjoying it, he's all good. Boy, he must have really f*cked up with the ex. I've seen ego boost as a reason for where guys do faux relationships but they usually remain detached via action/communication and it's kind of obvious especially to those not in it. OP, stop acting like you are doing her some favor. Until you tell her your now jelled intentions, you have no idea if you are. And leading her down one path when you are clearly going another, is pretty messed up. You are wasting her time if you are not upfront with her. And it is for selfish reasons don't fool yourself. Crutch to recover from your own emotional sadness. First and foremost.

[266696687]

Oh, yes totally possible that it's "F", which I said in a later post. I guess I meant that OP doesn't have the courage to tell her because he doesn't want to upset the balance of what he has for reasons 1-5.

 

BTW, I forgot the most important one which is more and more apparent as he posts. It's an ego boost for him. He gets to think of himself as a good "boyfriend" who takes her out, pays for her, says and does romantic things and thinks because she is enjoying it, he's all good. Boy, he must have really f*cked up with the ex. I've seen ego boost as a reason for where guys do faux relationships but they usually remain detached via action/communication and it's kind of obvious especially to those not in it. OP, stop acting like you are doing her some favor. Until you tell her your now jelled intentions, you have no idea if you are. And leading her down one path when you are clearly going another, is pretty messed up. You are wasting her time if you are not upfront with her. And it is for selfish reasons don't fool yourself. Crutch to recover from your own emotional sadness. First and foremost.

 

Agreed. I hope the OP listens.

[katiegrl]

 

Now this has been going on for about two months and I really like this girl and think she's incredibly sweet. But truthfully speaking I don't see a serious future with her. Reasons are I'm still a bit hung up on my ex, I'm not ready to commit to anyone unless I find someone I think is incredible, there's chemistry but I feel no spark, and I don't think we click enough for someone I want to spend the rest of my life with.

It's clear she really likes me, but she also knows we aren't dating, and she told me she doesn't ever think she'll get married. She's had experience with what she calls "situationships" as opposed to full blown relationships, which is where we are now. And also I'm not perfect. I feel like I have issues (social anxiety disorder for instance) that she'd grow weary of eventually, like my ex did.

 

I want to do what is right. I think spending a summer together doing fun things and then going our separate ways towards the end of the year would be ideal, if that is what she wants.

 

spriggan, I took this from your original post. What did you mean when you said she knows you are not dating? What does she think you are doing?

 

I wonder how she would feel if she knew what's in the bolded.

 

Specifically the first bolded and the last bolded. Do you plan to tell her these things?

 

If not please do, especially the part about spending the summer together and then going separate ways.

 

She may very well be OKAY with that, but please advise her of your intentions there.

 

With respect to what you brought up earlier re someone you knew who was dating/in a RL but leaving the country so the RL had an end date.

 

I presume his/her partner was aware of this?

 

Again, okay to have casual, okay to not want a future, okay to see this as something only short term.... what's not okay is NOT informing her of this and assuming if she wants to know she will ask.

 

That is not how it works. As has been mentioned, she may presume, by virtue of your actions, that your intention is developing a long term serious RL.

 

Good luck tonight! I actually hope she is on the same page as you.... which she very well may be!

 

Keep us posted!

[266696687]

spriggan, I took this from your original post. What did you mean when you said she knows you are not dating? What does she think you are doing?

 

I wonder how she would feel if she knew what's in the bolded.

 

Specifically the first bolded and the last bolded. Do you plan to tell her these things?

 

If not please do, especially the part about spending the summer together and then going separate ways.

 

She may very well be OKAY with that, but please advise her of your intentions there.

 

With respect to what you brought up earlier re someone you knew who was dating/in a RL but leaving the country so the RL had an end date.

 

I presume his/her partner was aware of this?

 

Again, okay to have casual, okay to not want a future, okay to see this as something only short term.... what's not okay is NOT informing her of this and assuming if she wants to know she will ask.

 

That is not how it works. As has been mentioned, she may presume, by virtue of your actions, that your intention is developing a long term serious RL.

 

Good luck tonight! I actually hope she is on the same page as you.... which she very well may be!

 

Keep us posted!

 

Katiegrl, somewhere at the beginning of the posts he stated the following: (I gathered from this he has made an assumption she 'knows' they are not dating but he hasn't actually ever told her or spoken to her about it).

 

 

" I have not met her friends or vice versa, she has not asked for commitment or exclusivity), and while I've intuited that she's an experienced enough girl to understand the ambiguity of attraction before a serious relationship is established, I still feel that if there is a risk of hurting her further by letting things go on when I've decided I don't want serious, I will come clean. "

 

'He intuited' - his lack of awareness tells me his intuition isn't very reliable either. She's supposed to just know from his behaviour that the relationship is casual. (I'm not sure how he can actually believe this?)

Edited April 26, 2016 by 266696687

[katiegrl]

Katiegrl, somewhere at the beginning of the posts he stated the following: (I gathered from this he has made an assumption she 'knows' they are not dating but he hasn't actually ever told her or spoken to her about it).

 

 

" I have not met her friends or vice versa, she has not asked for commitment or exclusivity), and while I've intuited that she's an experienced enough girl to understand the ambiguity of attraction before a serious relationship is established, I still feel that if there is a risk of hurting her further by letting things go on when I've decided I don't want serious, I will come clean. "

 

'He intuited' - his lack of awareness tells me his intuition isn't very reliable either. She's supposed to just know from his behaviour that the relationship is casual. (I'm not sure how he can actually believe this?)

 

First off, apologies to spriggan for talking about him in the third person.

 

But 2666.... I agree I mentioned his lack of awareness earlier but he sort of shot me down for it.... and for suggesting he may have Aspergers or another social disorder. I didn't even mean that in a derogatory way, and I actually took it back.... but yeah the lack of awareness, even for someone inexperienced, is surprising.

 

I mean he admitted himself he feels he has issues (social anxiety disorder) so it's possible he suffers from another form of social disorder as well.... but who knows, he should explore that though IMO.

 

I meant it though when I said I think deep down he's a good guy. Or even not so deep down.

 

He is (was) just unaware. Now by asking questions and introspection, he is becoming aware.

 

This is all good and I actually give him lots of credit for that!!

[266696687]

First off, apologies to spriggan for talking about him in the third person.

 

But 2666.... I agree I mentioned his lack of awareness earlier but he sort of shot me down for it.... and for suggesting he may have Aspergers or another social disorder. I didn't even mean that in a derogatory way, and I actually took it back.... but yeah the lack of awareness, even for someone inexperienced, is surprising.

 

I mean he admitted himself he feels he has issues (social anxiety disorder) so it's possible he suffers from another form of social disorder as well.... but who knows, he should explore that though IMO.

 

I meant it though when I said I think deep down he's a good guy. Or even not so deep down.

 

He is (was) just unaware. Now by asking questions and introspection, he is becoming aware.

 

This is all good and I actually give him lots of credit for that!!

 

Yeah I think maybe he has a few things to explore from his posting here. I too hope he can learn from this experience. It'll benefit him in future relationships.

 

Like you not to be insulting to the OP his lack of awareness for a 30 year old does seem to be a little lacking. Perhaps he could talk to the friend who pointed out his behaviour regarding this girl - he seems to be perceptive and could maybe shed some light for him. OP did say that he didn't believe at all that he was misleading her in anyway till someone else pointed it out. - this is definitely something he could look into.

[Jabron1]

I was at a family party the other night. My cousin turned up with an attractive bird. Reading what I just have, and being the good samaratian that I am, I now realise that I did him, her and humanity at large a great disservice.

 

I should have taken him to one side, told him that he is lying to her by omission, called him a 'timewaster', and urged him to set proper boundaries in his relationship. Instead of doing the right thing, I said 'she looks nice'. Silly me

 

I disagree with pretty much everything I've read. I find it hypocritical, insulting, irresponsible, and even pretentious at times.

 

However, I'll agree with this. This is wrong. Especially based on the sort of relationship he says they have.

 

especially the part about spending the summer together and then going separate ways.

 

Fair point.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Jabron1

[katiegrl]

I was at a family party the other night. My cousin turned up with an attractive bird. Reading what I just have, and being the good samaratian that I am, I now realise that I did him, her and humanity at large a great disservice.

 

I should have taken him to one side, told him that he is lying to her by omission, called him a 'timewaster', and urged him to set proper boundaries in his relationship. Instead of doing the right thing, I said 'she looks nice'. Silly me

 

I disagree with pretty much everything I've read. I find it hypocritical, insulting, irresponsible, and even pretentious at times.

 

However, I'll agree with this. This is wrong. Especially based on the sort of relationship he says they have.

 

Fair point.

 

FWIW, I think it's nice your cousin took a woman I assume he is dating to a family event.

 

When I first started dating my ex, he took me to a family event too, in fact I met his mom one week after I met him.

 

We were together six years. Very much in love.

 

Not quite getting your point and why the sarcasm.

 

And how it relates to OP's situation.... and his actions with respect to the girl he is seeing.

 

He said she has never even met his family.

 

He does have a hidden agenda though that she knows nothing about.

 

Does your cousin have a hidden agenda too with respect to the *attractive bird* he took to the family event?

 

Again, don't get your point.

Edited April 27, 2016 by katiegrl

[266696687]

FWIW, I think it's nice your cousin took a woman I assume he is dating to a family event.

 

When I first started dating my ex, he took me to a family event too, in fact I met his mom one week after I met him.

 

We were together six years. Very much in love.

 

Not quite getting your point and why the sarcasm.

 

And how it relates to OP's situation.... and his actions with respect to the girl he is seeing.

 

He said she has never even met his family.

 

He does have a hidden agenda though that she knows nothing about.

 

Does your cousin have a hidden agenda too with respect to the *attractive bird* he took to the family event?

 

Again, don't get your point.

 

I have no idea what his point is either. He doesn't have one as far as I can see.

 

Jabron if you cannot understand or comprehend why most people would take moral issue with the situation that Spriggan is in or you think that his behaviour is acceptable after reading through the many opinions on this thread then that's up to you but I would begin to question the direction of your moral compass. if you cannot at all see both sides of the situation and empathize with the girl who is unaware she is dating and being romanced and completely swept off her feet by a guy who has already in his mind determined he doesn't have any feelings for her at all but hasn't let her know that's the case.

 

Do you have any empathy for the position she is in? Can you not at all understand how she may feel misled and lead on? Can you see the situation from her perspective at all? I'd be very worried if you can't.

[Versacehottie]

I was at a family party the other night. My cousin turned up with an attractive bird. Reading what I just have, and being the good samaratian that I am, I now realise that I did him, her and humanity at large a great disservice.

 

I should have taken him to one side, told him that he is lying to her by omission, called him a 'timewaster', and urged him to set proper boundaries in his relationship. Instead of doing the right thing, I said 'she looks nice'. Silly me

 

I disagree with pretty much everything I've read. I find it hypocritical, insulting, irresponsible, and even pretentious at times.

 

However, I'll agree with this. This is wrong. Especially based on the sort of relationship he says they have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by katiegrl

especially the part about spending the summer together and then going separate ways.

 

Fair point.

 

I often agree with your points J, even when it's not popular or it may seem unconventional to do so. You provide a refreshing dose of guy reality a lot of the time. I realize you are being somewhat sarcastic with the scenario you present about your cousin. You didn't state whether you have been informed that he knows already that he has an exit strategy in mind and is just biding his time. You also didn't say if he asked for your opinion. Both are relevant to the OP's situation as he presented it.

 

Here's the bottom line. If you can agree with Katie's point about splitting at the end of the summer, where OP knows that fact already in APRIL, then you have actually joined the majority of us on the "dark side". This is precisely the point of why the OP is in the wrong. Welcome....

[Jabron1]

Here's the bottom line. If you can agree with Katie's point about splitting at the end of the summer, where OP knows that fact already in APRIL, then you have actually joined the majority of us on the "dark side". This is precisely the point of why the OP is in the wrong. Welcome....

 

I concede this, and 'lose' the argument

 

I overlooked that part

 

The other stuff is details. He should talk to her about this.

[Versacehottie]

I concede this, and 'lose' the argument

 

I overlooked that part

 

The other stuff is details. He should talk to her about this.

 

Lol, you didn't "lose". You are provide a very likely way that a lot of guys think about it and those of us that are wise would be smart to listen up that what you are expressing is HOW a lot of guys think when it comes to relationships. Probably why a lot of guys DON'T feel the need to define it and each party is responsible for themselves is how they are thinking.

 

I think a lot of the girls here that are being reasonable know that guys (and girls) do this. I think we also assume they are still in process of figuring it out and allow them to have that chance (us too). We are willing to take the risk and know that we are responsible for ourselves and DO risk getting hurt while a person is figuring it out. I think if either party "knows" the end point though we are wading into moral/ethical territory and the parties should know what they are signing up for, ie what is the exchange. I would be saying the same if the OP was instead a female golddigger who just wanted to stick with a guy for the summer to use his beach house, and so on and so forth and to get over her last bad breakup.

 

I agree the rest are just details.

[spriggan2]

Hurl all the indignation and condemnation you want in any way you can think of, if it's not supported by sound logic, it's not going to change my stance or make me feel guilty. It is just going to bore me. Ive never been one to go for "truth by consensus" or laughably baseless psych speculations. I feel like I'm reading a long chain of oversights and contradictions and failures to detect nuance. I cant help with that anymore. But as always, thank you for the feedback.

 

For those of you still curious. We had a talk. I told her I just got out of a relationship in Jan where I was heartbroken. I told her Im not ready for anything serious and that my primary reason for dating right now is experience. She's fine with that. She broke up with a guy last fall (who is still one of her best friends). She has a long ago ex who she was in love with still present in her life. Her PhD is her priority before dating and it takes a ton of her time. She said she takes relationships very seriously compared to just dating. She wants to continue seeing me. I have feelings for her, just not as deep as id like them to be. We'll see what happens.

 

Edit - I feel our relationship will only last a few months, judging by my feelings for her. I feel like we won't end up together. I never said I'd split up with her on X date. Its still very up in the air.

Edited April 27, 2016 by spriggan2

[fitnessfan365]

The main problem OP is that genuine romance is never casual.

 

So by treating this woman like a GF, you're communicating that you'll want it to lead to more. If you're truly not over your ex and are only looking for something casual, you should treat it as such IMO.

[spriggan2]

I've also concluded that while she definitely likes me, she's certainly not head over heels. So it's very possible that shes the one who breaks things off. By all indications that is the custom for her. Either way I will be keeping an eye out for where we both are emotionally.

[Versacehottie]

Hurl all the indignation and condemnation you want in any way you can think of, if it's not supported by sound logic, it's not going to change my stance or make me feel guilty. It is just going to bore me. Ive never been one to go for "truth by consensus" or laughably baseless psych speculations. I feel like I'm reading a long chain of oversights and contradictions and failures to detect nuance. I cant help with that anymore. But as always, thank you for the feedback.

 

For those of you still curious. We had a talk. I told her I just got out of a relationship in Jan where I was heartbroken. I told her Im not ready for anything serious and that my primary reason for dating right now is experience. She's fine with that. She broke up with a guy last fall (who is still one of her best friends). She has a long ago ex who she was in love with still present in her life. Her PhD is her priority before dating and it takes a ton of her time. She said she takes relationships very seriously compared to just dating. She wants to continue seeing me. I have feelings for her, just not as deep as id like them to be. We'll see what happens.

 

Edit - I feel our relationship will only last a few months, judging by my feelings for her. I feel like we won't end up together. I never said I'd split up with her on X date. Its still very up in the air.

 

You are way too defensive about this. Especially considering you got what you wanted and sounds you did the right thing last night and are on the same page with her. Fair enough--I think a decent amount of us just felt like you needed to the ethical thing, as did your friends. I'd guess that you are still feeling defensive because it's hit a nerve about all the other stuff surrounding your choices in this situation, which are about you and not the relationship really at all. My guess.

 

Anyway, glad it got resolved to your satisfaction and that you did get what you want. I def have respect for you for speaking up with her.

[katiegrl]

I am glad to hear you talked and are on the same page too!

 

However, I wonder what your *stance* would be had she NOT been on the same page.

 

And was in fact falling hard for you, and becoming serious about you .... based on your actions.

 

And felt hurt, misled, pissed off because of those actions.

 

I suspect your stance would be entirely different right now.

 

Again, glad it worked out though.

[katiegrl]

I am glad to hear you talked and are on the same page too!

 

However, I wonder what your *stance* would be had she NOT been on the same page.

 

And was in fact falling hard for you, and becoming serious about you .... based on your actions.

 

And felt hurt, misled, pissed off because of those actions.

 

I suspect your stance would be entirely different right now.

 

Again, glad it worked out though.

 

To add, if she is like most women, she's hoping as you continue seeing each other, you *will* eventually develop feelings and become serious about her.

 

Then after you dump her at the end of the summer, *then* it will hit her... and feel hurt and misled.

 

That's how it usually goes down in these types of situations where the guy wants casual.

 

Good luck with that.

 

I am glad you were honest though. You did the right thing.

Edited April 27, 2016 by katiegrl

[266696687]

To add, if she is like most women, she's hoping as you continue seeing each other, you *will* eventually develop feelings and become serious about her.

 

Then after you dump her at the end of the summer, *then* it will hit her... and feel hurt and misled.

 

That's how it usually goes down in these types of situations where the guy wants casual.

 

Good luck with that.

 

I am glad you were honest though. You did the right thing.

 

Ye katiegrl agreed again. If you look at any thread where a guy has said "I'm not looking for a serious relationship" all the women were initially told this but the women seem to because of their desire not to lose them 'pretend! to have been on the same page and are hoping down the line that they will change their mind. They are then devasted when the guy dumps them months or a year or so later and moves on to someone else. They don't realize that "I'm not looking for a serious relationship" actually means "I don't want a relationship with you".

 

They especially don't realize the significance if the informing them involves niceties about how much he likes her or respects her or enjoys her company.

 

Spriggan you are behaving defensive here. We are trying to offer you the best advice based on our own personal experience and knowledge to help you. Offering you the perspective of women and how we think and act in certain situations. We are just trying to give you the heads up.

 

When the relationship ends I think you may well see her true reaction. That's really the point in which you will learn if she genuinely thought it would turn serious. Guess you will have to wait to find out.

 

Also since you only told her last night she might not yet have had time to consider what you have told her. She may yet come back with a different opinion once she has talked to friends etc. she might have agreed at the time but it might not remain her opinion once she's had time to digest what you said to her. You'll have to see if her behaviour changes in the next week or so.

 

Spriggan it is worth going through some of those threads by searching the term "not looking for a serious relationship" on the forum. These might help you judge the situation a bit differently. You can read the posts from men and women from the other perspective. You might get an understanding of the reasons people stay in a relationship with someone who has told them "they don't want a relationship".

Edited April 27, 2016 by 266696687