Jabron1 Posted April 24, 2016 Posted April 24, 2016 Yeah and if this girl behaved this way, and spriggan was the the one getting all emotionally involved and wrapprd up, you'd be screaming at him to keep his options open and remain detached!! Anyhoo I am done here, said my piece. Agree to disagree. Kate, you are assuming. You are assuming that this woman wants to be on the monogamous road towards marriage. All of the women here are. Spriggan has said that she doesn't want to get married. The time they have together is valuable. Doesn't necessarily mean it has to lead to a particular 'end goal'. And then you all push him into having some big talk about defining the relationship. Who even is to say that she wants that? If she wanted it bad enough, she would have asked 'where is this going?'. I know this from experience. OP needs to stop listening to his white knight friend and just go with the flow IMO. I'm a woman and I think this sounds like a pretty nice relationship you're having. I think it might be the exact kind of relationship I'm looking for -- tho I think I would want mine to be more on the scale of a year or two. It seems to me like you're verging on boyfriend/girlfriend behavior, but I don't think that automatically means that you should be thinking you want to be in it for the long haul. And it seems like you really do like her. How refreshing! Exactly. I've met women like this too.
Author spriggan2 Posted April 24, 2016 Author Posted April 24, 2016 I asked previously if why you and your ex broke up, and how long you were together. I feel this is relevant because it's generally not a wise idea to begin dating without first grieving the loss of the previous relationship. That tends to lead to a rebound in which we're trying hard to fill that void left by an ex, but that's often a futile venture and generally winds up hurting the person who's unwittingly acting as the placeholder. What were the circumstances surrounding your breakup? We met last May, became official in June. Turned long distance in September when she moved to Harvard for grad school. Broke up finally in Jan. We were together for 8 months. So it wasn't some huge, epic thing. The problem is I was crazy about her because she was my first gf. I had severe social anxiety and was very lonely, so being with her felt incredible but my feelings were extreme. And she is a very special girl, super smart, common interests, sexy, friend of the family. We mainly broke up because she lost attraction, and I wasn't very good at asserting myself when I felt I was being mistreated. Basically she wasn't kind enough, I wasn't firm enough. My heart was broken. I started seeing a therapist last year, and after we broke up. Therapist encouraged me to start seeing other women and was excited when I joined Tinder. She knows about the girl Im currently seeing. I am not looking to get back with my ex, but I dont have the energy to go in for commitment with just anybody I think is semi what Im looking for.
katiegrl Posted April 24, 2016 Posted April 24, 2016 Kate, you are assuming. You are assuming that this woman wants to be on the monogamous road towards marriage. All of the women here are. Spriggan has said that she doesn't want to get married. The time they have together is valuable. Doesn't necessarily mean it has to lead to a particular 'end goal'. ---- **And then you all push him into having some big talk about defining the relationship. Who even is to say that she wants that? If she wanted it bad enough, she would have asked 'where is this going?'. I know this from experience. Fair enough except I *never* advised him to have some big talk about defining the relationship. In fact I told him I did not think he needed to have that talk.... have you read my posts? Lol I only asked that his actions reflect he only wants casual, since he said that IS all he wants with this particular girl. Which IMO means remaining somewhat detached, keeping options open ..... And jmo but it does not mean romantic dates which include wine, candles, laying together on couch watching romantic French flicks and playing romantic music for her on the piano. If a man behaved that way with me, I would feel swept off my feet, and most likely feel he was super into me and wanting a future. Just me. 1
Jabron1 Posted April 24, 2016 Posted April 24, 2016 And jmo but it does not mean romantic dates which include wine, candles, laying together on couch watching romantic French flicks and playing romantic music for her on the piano. If a man behaved that way with me, I would feel swept off my feet, and most likely feel he was super into me and wanting a future. Just me. See, this is what I mean I play classical guitar for women sometimes. Classical guitar doesn't = marriage. It just means that I have a guitar laying about, and had lessons. That's indirect communication. Indirect communication is a woman's world. Men do not operate in that world. If a woman wants to know what a man is about, she needs to deal with him directly. That's our language. Which means bringing it up point blank. He will be honest, unless he is a complete sh*tbag. Like I said, if you or any of the other ladies want to give us men a primer on what the limits of a casual relationship are, then I'm all ears. But I guess that it would be pretty rigid and boring
katiegrl Posted April 24, 2016 Posted April 24, 2016 (edited) See, this is what I mean I play classical guitar for women sometimes. Classical guitar doesn't = marriage. It just means that I have a guitar laying about, and had lessons. That's indirect communication. Indirect communication is a woman's world. Men do not operate in that world. If a woman wants to know what a man is about, she needs to deal with him directly. That's our language. Which means bringing it up point blank. He will be honest, unless he is a complete sh*tbag. Like I said, if you or any of the other ladies want to give us men a primer on what the limits of a casual relationship are, then I'm all ears. But I guess that it would be pretty rigid and boring Thanks it is actually interesting hearing your perspective on how men think. I guess this is one of those never-ending differences between men and women. Men will continue behaving in ways that confuse the hell outta women, and women will continue behaving and responding in ways that confuse the hell outta men. One thing is for sure though. We all need to learn to communicate, including me! After reading this thread, damn straight I am going to be asking a man early on what he is wanting, with me! I am not going to go by just actions anymore. Or just go with the flow. I have been lucky thus far, but going forward, as evidenced by spriggan's actions vs. what he is wanting (casual) ....not chancing it. Thanks! Edited April 24, 2016 by katiegrl 2
266696687 Posted April 25, 2016 Posted April 25, 2016 (edited) See, this is what I mean I play classical guitar for women sometimes. Classical guitar doesn't = marriage. It just means that I have a guitar laying about, and had lessons. That's indirect communication. Indirect communication is a woman's world. Men do not operate in that world. If a woman wants to know what a man is about, she needs to deal with him directly. That's our language. Which means bringing it up point blank. He will be honest, unless he is a complete sh*tbag. Like I said, if you or any of the other ladies want to give us men a primer on what the limits of a casual relationship are, then I'm all ears. But I guess that it would be pretty rigid and boring It's not about providing limits to a casual relationship. It's a simple matter of comfirming with your partner that a casual relationship is what you are looking for and that you are both on the same page. A casual relationship can involve as much or as little as each person wants. It doesn't need to be a big discussion a simple 'I'm not looking for anything long term or serious right now' will suffice. Not wanting marriage doesn't mean anything. A serious relationship can be long term and not lead to marriage. Some never want to get married at all. It's just about making sure both people are on the same page and that one person isnt being misled by deceptive actions. Its common decency and respectful to let the other person know what you want out of pursuing a relationship so that they can with full awareness make a decision as to whether to continue a relationship or not. The longer this goes on without letting her know the more hurt he will potentially cause. His actions tell her clearly he is serious about her when in reality he isn't planning on staying with her at all. He is aware of his feelings but is keeping them from her (so far) in order to continue a sexual relationship with her. He is aware his actions might have misled her (hence the thread) but has continued to hide these feelings from her presumably because he knows she may well end the relationship upon discovering he isn't serious about her. That's selfish plain and simple. Lying by omission. He is withholding vital information from her to continue to get what he wants (sex). She has no reason at this point to doubt his intentions (he has given her nothing but his undivided attention) this is what it comes down to. She isn't party to the 'real nature' of the relationship because he is keeping his real intentions to himself. That's where I see a problem in this situation . You can have as much or little romance as you want from a casual relationship as long as both people are aware it's casual and nothing else. Edited April 25, 2016 by 266696687
Author spriggan2 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) He is aware his actions might have misled her (hence the thread) but has continued to hide these feelings from her presumably because he knows she may well end the relationship upon discovering he isn't serious about her. That's selfish plain and simple. Lying by omission. He is withholding vital information from her to continue to get what he wants (sex). I made the thread because I was told that my actions might mislead. Had someone else (friend) not told me, I'd have had no idea whatsoever that I was doing anything wrong. It's not some inner guilt that set my conscience in motion, it was an external bias. "This is the way she might read what you are doing." Not even based on his own logical thought process, based on his experience with women. I was like ok, let me get some more feedback since I'm new at this. Hence the thread. I've kept this information from her because we haven't met since I made this thread and became aware of potential issues. Prior to that I liked what the relationship was and saw no reason to deepen or loosen or break our connection, thus no reason to articulate for any changes or establish commitment/emotional milestones. I would wait until one of us was ready for that, until one of us spoke up for deepening or loosening, and the other would agree or disagree. I wasn't just romancing her for sex. Yes I thought that was the polite thing to do, but I am also a romantic at heart. I was romancing her for the sake of romance. Intrinsically. I love romance. I love poetry, classical literature, classical music, that is a big part of my world and interest and desire. The sex is not the only thing I personally want out of this relationship as I've already said. I've honestly enjoyed everything we've done on an equal level. So what exactly is inherently misleading or dishonest about that? If she leaves, I'd be sad to see the romance go just as much as the sex. Its common decency and respectful to let the other person know what you want out of pursuing a relationship so that they can with full awareness make a decision as to whether to continue a relationship or not. Then maybe she should tell me what she wants too? She hasn't yet. She's said nothing of her end goals either, apart from that she doesn't think she'll get married. So like Jabron said, why would I assume she wants to move in a serious direction? Not everyone does. Why am I more at fault than her? I fundamentally don't understand this. Yes this is logical: make an effort to woo a girl if you really like her and want to build a future together. True. I get that. But also: make an effort to woo a girl because you intrinsically enjoy everything that wooing entails. You enjoy romance. Tons of people do. I am being true to myself and my desire in every act. That, to me, is not misleading at all. Understand. The only reason I've agreed to have this "I'm not looking to get serious right now" talk is because I can see why many might have the impression that romance = serious relationship intent. But as far as trying to convince me that romance is fundamentally the gesture of one who wants to be in a serious relationship, and therefore because I don't want that and yet still romance her, somehow I am clearly misleading her, I really do not see it. Edited April 26, 2016 by spriggan2
katiegrl Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 spriggan.... whether casual or serious, it's important that you (anyone) be cognizant of how your actions come across and are being interpreted by the recipient of those actions (in this case, her). Yes courting her and romancing her as you have been will leave the impression you are serious about wanting a LTR with her. There is nothing wrong with romancing her, since you enjoy it, but since you are romancing her, and you only want casual, IMO it's on you to advise her of that. Most women judge what a mans wants and how he feels via his ACTIONS. Often times, no discussion ever needs to take place because his ACTIONS say it all. It's assumed you want a LTR due to your actions (romance, courtship). So again, in that case, it's on you to advise her.... otherwise she is going to presume you are looking for a LTR with her because that is what your actions are telling her. 2
Versacehottie Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 He is lying to her by omission. He is treating her as his girlfriend. Romancing her. Talking to her everyday. Texting. Spending weekends together. Taking her on dates every week. Is exclusive to her but yet hasn't told her he doesn't have romantic feelings for her. He is clearly on the rebound and using this girl. Even his friend has warned him his behaviour is misleading her and that he is setting her up to be hurt. Which in my opinion he is. No women are not delicate flowers and we can choose to have a no strings attached relationship as and when we please however we do need to be aware of it to decide if it's what we want. He is misleading her. He is romancing her not keeping it casual. Under the circumstances I doubt she believes this to be a no strings attached agreement. He certainly hasn't told her that's what it is and his actions are in complete contradiction to that sort of arrangement. She isn't aware he doesn't have romantic feelings for her. Yeah, OP she may or may not be a delicate flower. She doesn't know the agreement though and you do. You are not "figuring it out", you know that you have an end point with her in the future. By omitting that info, you aren't allowing her to make her decision based on that info--that's misleading. Your friends are right. She may keep dating you--she may even keep dating you FOR THE WRONG REASONS--but let it be her mistake to make. Here's the thing, I'm generalizing but if you say she is sweet, I'd think she might not be a no strings attached girl willingly. Sadly, I also think you are fooling yourself. This has ALL the makings of a relationship; so it's misleading. You might want to be honest with yourself about why you need this level of contact with her when you don't really see a future with her. Sounds like a substitute relationship/crutch/rebound if you ask me. Sorry you are hurting but not fair to do it to someone else. 2
Author spriggan2 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Posted April 26, 2016 spriggan.... whether casual or serious, it's important that you (anyone) be cognizant of how your actions come across and are being interpreted by the recipient of those actions (in this case, her). Lol at this point in the thread, I would hope you've realized I'm as aware of this as it is humanly possible to be. And that I agree about it. There is nothing wrong with romancing her, since you enjoy it, but since you are romancing her, and you only want casual, IMO it's on you to advise her of that. Most women judge what a mans wants and how he feels via his ACTIONS. Often times, no discussion ever needs to take place because his ACTIONS say it all. You see how confusing this is in my case? So, often times, no discussion ever needs to take place because ACTIONS say it all? But I want to have a casual relationship that involves romance, because I like romance. So in actuality I'll be needing to have discussions all the time if I want a casual relationship. Because according to you my actions (romance) say nothing of my intent (casual). That is a foreign, biased language. I prefer a straightforward one. My actions (romance, period) say exactly, word for word, everything of my intent (romance, period). Alas, I am now aware of the norm. I realize the expectations already put in place. I realize how people could misinterpret my actions, so again I will have the talk. And after all this discussion I assume it will be relatively anticlimactic.
Versacehottie Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 I know. It's just stupid. Go out, have fun, and get laid. That's what guys do. Don't let anyone tell you that it's on your shoulders to start chasing definitions for relationships. That's a girl thing, and not your problem. In this thread, you are basically being guilt tripped into having an exclusivity discussion, to tell her that you don't want exclusivity. It boggles the mind . I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation. By the sounds of things, you are treating her well, and having fun. If she wants exclusivity, she will ask for it. You certainly aren't responsible for initiating a conversation that you don't even want . It's ludicrous. Most of the time, people ask for exclusivity because they are still in process of figuring it out. Whoever asks first has figured it out enough so that they feel compelled to ask and nail things down. They are willing to risk asking because wanting the assurance of exclusivity is more important to them at that point and feel like they have enough information. I don't feel like the majority of us are guilt trippin the OP--it's a moral issue. He HAS figured it out now (as of a month ago) and basically avoiding saying anything--probably because he doesn't feel he is morally obligated to and/or that he would lose the deal he has. I think the girl never brought up exclusivity because by his actions that conversation wasn't necessary--for all intents and purposes she is getting what pretty much looks like a boyfriend. The big secret that HE is keeping is that this relationship is not going to progress for him. If he has the b*lls, tell her and see what she does. He'll either: A. Lose his faux gf B. Deal with more drama than he is willing to put up with C. Lose his hero status in his own mind that feeds his ego from having lost his ex D. Won't take this action due to cowardly reasons E. Won't take this action due to being a user Which is it? 1
Versacehottie Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 You have to understand I did not know this. She is the second girl I've ever dated. I thought I was just being a gentleman. I thought it was worse, no matter the intent, to simply ask for what I wanted from a girl (sex, companionship, attention) without wining and dining her, entertaining her, getting to know her as a person, giving her special treatment. I felt it would be sleazy even if that was agreed to. Because as I said before, even though I don't see a long term future with her, I think she is special, sweet, fun, attractive, cool and smart. Personally however I'm looking for a little more sophistication and depth. Sometimes I feel like who am I to reject anyone, but there you have it. I've realized the issue that causes though. Fair enough that you know what you want and she is not it in terms of sophistication and depth. But you are going to reject her, after you've made it through your own personal rough patch--for the very same reasons. The only difference is that she will be months more invested at that point and feel very betrayed. You are treating her like a gf when that is in no way your intention. If you've just reached this point where you have enough information to know this for sure as of a month ago, just tell her now. 1
Versacehottie Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 I also have a curious question for the OP: what sorts of things do you talk about? Meaning if there is "future talk", or "sweet nothings" type of talk--yep, she is being mislead. Usually if that is one-sided, the other party will figure it out--that is unless YOU are participating in it as well, which again is misleading and disingenuous. Hope your talk goes well. It's totally possible that she will be fine and want what you want.
Silver_star Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 Op I would recommend taking a bit more time to yourself next time to heal and reflect however It's not wrong to want companionship/romance and to experience joy. its good you are open to it again so soon. It's okay to not want to think too far ahead yet. To be fair though, to the other person, all you need to say is "I got out of a serious relationship in January, I was in love, and so I'm just looking for someone awesome to spend time with and get to know better" That way you have been honest about your intentions. its a two way street. If someone is looking for commitment and you are not meeting their needs they should be speaking up about that and you can both decide to break up if you aren't on the same page anymore. That's honest at least. If you feel like they are catching feelings though, and you know you are not... It's time to set that one free. Just be on the same page. 1
266696687 Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) Most of the time, people ask for exclusivity because they are still in process of figuring it out. Whoever asks first has figured it out enough so that they feel compelled to ask and nail things down. They are willing to risk asking because wanting the assurance of exclusivity is more important to them at that point and feel like they have enough information. I don't feel like the majority of us are guilt trippin the OP--it's a moral issue. He HAS figured it out now (as of a month ago) and basically avoiding saying anything--probably because he doesn't feel he is morally obligated to and/or that he would lose the deal he has. I think the girl never brought up exclusivity because by his actions that conversation wasn't necessary--for all intents and purposes she is getting what pretty much looks like a boyfriend. The big secret that HE is keeping is that this relationship is not going to progress for him. If he has the b*lls, tell her and see what she does. He'll either: A. Lose his faux gf B. Deal with more drama than he is willing to put up with C. Lose his hero status in his own mind that feeds his ego from having lost his ex D. Won't take this action due to cowardly reasons E. Won't take this action due to being a user Which is it? Agreed. I said this right at the beginning of the thread. After more than two months of all this romance etc she may well continue to date him anyway because she is already attached (she'll be setting herself up for more hurt). If she is as sweet and naive as the OP states then unless he is abundantly clear about his intentions she may not realize what he is actually saying especially if he tells her how much he likes her, enjoys her company and spending time with her romancing her at the same time as telling her he is only interested in casual. This is really going to confuse her especially if she is inexperienced in relationships which the OP has stated as well. She could once again be misled into believing it will turn serious down the line. This situation is really only going to end in drama because of the way it started. It's completely misleading. Someone is going to get hurt. Edited April 26, 2016 by 266696687 2
266696687 Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) To be clear. I think it's wrong to assume that courting and romancing means I want a serious relationship. But because there is a high risk of that assumption being made I understand why I might want to make it clear as soon as possible, just to avoid confusion and pain. But I feel like I'm proof that courting and romancing does not automatically mean I want a serious relationship. Even after I tell this girl what I want, if she agrees to it, I don't plan on slowing things down in the romancing or going on dates department. I mean it's Spring, the weather's getting nice, there are lovely parks in my neighborhood, stylish restaurants, ballets, Broadway plays coming to town, shows, concerts, parties. In addition to sex I want to share all these things in the company of an interesting girl. I want to take her back to my place and light scented candles and drink wine and watch French films on the couch. Play romantic pieces on my piano for her. But I'm just not in the right frame of mind to build a future with a girl unless I come across someone who truly rocks my world. But I'm not ready to have that deep soul search either. I want to have fun with romance and share in its delights. If, when I tell this girl I want casual, she says "ok but I only want sex and no romance," then it's me who's going to say goodbye. I want something more than that. Is that impossible? I just want to point something out to you. Your whole post here is "I Want, I Want" you do not seem to consider at all what this girl might want or think about all these things. You are romancing her because it's what you want. You are sleeping with her because that's what you want. You are talking to her all the time because it's what you want. You are doing all of these things for selfish reasons. It's got very little to do with what she wants and feels. You are withholding the truth about your feelings because there's a chance it might stop you getting what you want. It's very selfish actions. What you need to tell this girl is below then she can decide whether to continue the relationship knowing all the information. "I'm just not in the right frame of mind to build a future with a girl unless I come across someone who truly rocks my world. But I'm not ready to have that deep soul search either. I want to have fun with romance and share in its delights." - A quote from your own post. Edited April 26, 2016 by 266696687 1
Zapbasket Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 Other posters have already advised what I would advise, which is to be clear with the woman about your intentions--basically, that you don't see a future with her and don't see that changing but you are very much enjoying the present with her. But I have to say, I would be pretty offended if someone dated me, let it go on for months or even longer, all the while knowing that he didn't see a future with me. It's one thing to date as a journey towards finding out whether there's a future with a person, and another thing to have reached that conclusion but still date them. This would mess me up big-time, mostly because I can't relate to a mindset of dating just for the sake of dating. Especially once you know there is no future, I don't understand why you'd want to waste your time, let alone the other person's time, even if it is consensual. And, if I were dating someone who was treating me as you were treating this woman, OP, I absolutely would think we were in a real relationship. But unlike this woman, by now I'd probably be asking for some discussion on where we both stand in terms of a relationship. 2
Author spriggan2 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Posted April 26, 2016 I just want to point something out to you. Your whole post here is "I Want, I Want" you do not seem to consider at all what this girl might want or think about all these things. You are romancing her because it's what you want. You are sleeping with her because that's what you want. You are talking to her all the time because it's what you want. You are doing all of these things for selfish reasons. It's got very little to do with what she wants and feels. She certainly hasn't complained about my paying for our outings. She certainly isn't complaining about the orgasms I'm giving her. She certainly isn't complaining about the romantic activities I've come up with for us, or the ear I lend her when she's having a bad day, or when she's bored. I have been treating her right. I intuit what she wants in moments and I judge my delivery based on the feedback I receive. So far that feedback has been positive. You think if it was negative I'd keep seeing her simply because I'm getting what I want? I assure you I wouldn't. I consider what she wants every single step of the way, down to the question of whether her arms are comfortable when we cuddle in bed. I simply haven't been considering her long term desire, because we haven't reached that point and she's given me absolutely no explicit signs that she wants serious. Maybe she's been withholding her feelings because she might stop getting what she wants. Or maybe she's not that into me anyway. I just haven't been making assumptions. We've said "I miss you" a total of one time. Outside of intimate moments we don't have pet names for each other. You are withholding the truth about your feelings because there's a chance it might stop you getting what you want. It's very selfish actions. Ugh...how many times and how many ways do I have to disprove this? I am withholding my feelings because I only became aware of them a month ago, I only realized she might be interpreting my actions as something more than they are when I had a conversation with someone else, I haven't seen her since I've made this thread. And by the way if she tells me she wants something more or less it's me who's going to leave (as I've already said). I'm not afraid of her leaving. I'm sure I can find someone else who's not ready for a serious relationship right now but doesn't mind more casual dating. I met a girl who wanted a casual and temporary thing because she's moving to LA at the end of the summer and doesn't want an LDR (she was also an egotistical nutjob though so I said no TY). What you need to tell this girl is below then she can decide whether to continue the relationship knowing all the information. Or maybe she should tell me what she wants to I can decide? It's a two way street. I like the way things are. Maybe she does too, maybe she wants more, maybe she wants less. I feel like the one who wants something different would be more inclined to speak up, or at least it should be the responsibility of both parties. Either way I've resolved to bite the bullet this time and see how it goes.
Author spriggan2 Posted April 26, 2016 Author Posted April 26, 2016 It's one thing to date as a journey towards finding out whether there's a future with a person, and another thing to have reached that conclusion but still date them. This would mess me up big-time, mostly because I can't relate to a mindset of dating just for the sake of dating. When I was younger I couldn't, but I can now. Dating is a blast for me. I imagine it is for many other people who aren't automatically looking to make a future with the person they're seeing. But yes, we will talk, most likely tonight.
despgirl Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 She certainly hasn't complained about my paying for our outings. She certainly isn't complaining about the orgasms I'm giving her. She certainly isn't complaining about the romantic activities I've come up with for us, or the ear I lend her when she's having a bad day, or when she's bored. I have been treating her right. I intuit what she wants in moments and I judge my delivery based on the feedback I receive. So far that feedback has been positive. You think if it was negative I'd keep seeing her simply because I'm getting what I want? I assure you I wouldn't. I consider what she wants every single step of the way, down to the question of whether her arms are comfortable when we cuddle in bed. I simply haven't been considering her long term desire, because we haven't reached that point and she's given me absolutely no explicit signs that she wants serious. Maybe she's been withholding her feelings because she might stop getting what she wants. Or maybe she's not that into me anyway. I just haven't been making assumptions. We've said "I miss you" a total of one time. Outside of intimate moments we don't have pet names for each other. Ugh...how many times and how many ways do I have to disprove this? I am withholding my feelings because I only became aware of them a month ago, I only realized she might be interpreting my actions as something more than they are when I had a conversation with someone else, I haven't seen her since I've made this thread. And by the way if she tells me she wants something more or less it's me who's going to leave (as I've already said). I'm not afraid of her leaving. I'm sure I can find someone else who's not ready for a serious relationship right now but doesn't mind more casual dating. I met a girl who wanted a casual and temporary thing because she's moving to LA at the end of the summer and doesn't want an LDR (she was also an egotistical nutjob though so I said no TY). Or maybe she should tell me what she wants to I can decide? It's a two way street. I like the way things are. Maybe she does too, maybe she wants more, maybe she wants less. I feel like the one who wants something different would be more inclined to speak up, or at least it should be the responsibility of both parties. Either way I've resolved to bite the bullet this time and see how it goes. This thread makes me really, really scared of what kinds of guys are out there, capable of misleading a woman like that. I hope I will never, ever run into a man like that in my life. 1
Zapbasket Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) When I was younger I couldn't, but I can now. Dating is a blast for me. I imagine it is for many other people who aren't automatically looking to make a future with the person they're seeing. But yes, we will talk, most likely tonight. Yes, it's a blast as long as you remain detached. I think you must misunderstand what I meant because given you now are only 30, I can't imagine that when you were younger you were seriously considering everyone you dated as someone you'd potentially have a long-term future with. In my world, that's actually a SKILL that you develop over time. It involves becoming more self-aware about what you bring to the table emotionally, intellectually, socially, biologically, and physically, and taking active steps to address weaknesses and nurture strengths. It involves being aware of what kind of partner suits you and the kind of life you want to lead. It also involves having the courage, integrity and honesty to let people go who aren't what you ultimately are looking for, and to put your best forward in a relationship that DOES potentially have everything you want. When I said I couldn't imagine dating just for its own sake without having the future in mind, I did not mean that everyone I date, I think I want as my future husband. It means I date in order to find the best possible match for the best possible relationship for me. And for me, a great relationship is one that so fulfills both people that they are both inspired to do all they can to ensure it lasts a long, long time. "Good for right now" is not nearly the same as "good for me, for my most fundamental being and values and goals for the future." One is...a sandbox. The other is an endless shore. One is for grown-ups, and the other is...not. I get why your current style of dating is "fun." The way you have it set up right now, you get all the surface benefits of a romantic relationship without any risk of getting hurt. You have stated many times that you are indifferent whether this girl, upon learning your intentions regarding this relationship, chooses to stay or to go. She can't betray you, since you two are not, in your mind, committed. You care about her, but you don't love her, which means you don't "need" her to fulfill your deeper emotional needs. You are blissfully, perfectly detached. The only thing about the habit of being detached, and finding "power" and "contentment" in detachment, is that ultimately what you really become detached from is your own being. For your sake, I hope this is just a phase for you, and not the way you ultimately choose to deal with the pitfalls of loving and being loved. Edited April 26, 2016 by GreenCove 2
introverted1 Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 If he has the b*lls, tell her and see what she does. He'll either: A. Lose his faux gf B. Deal with more drama than he is willing to put up with C. Lose his hero status in his own mind that feeds his ego from having lost his ex D. Won't take this action due to cowardly reasons E. Won't take this action due to being a user F. Happily discover that things can continue as they are. Geez, all those guys I dated in my 20's with whom I had no intention of happily-ever-after, yet I behaved pretty much like a gf because I was a gf, just not one with a "forever" future. OP, talk to her. It's not impossible that she's on the same page you are. 1
266696687 Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 This thread makes me really, really scared of what kinds of guys are out there, capable of misleading a woman like that. I hope I will never, ever run into a man like that in my life. Totally agree. The OP's complete lack of awareness is also extremely frustrating, OP you can make as many excuses as you like but you are wasting this girls time. You know there is no future and rather than let her go to find someone else who will love her you continue to date her in a way that suggests you want something serious. Yo do so without telling her you don't have romantic feelings for her and have known for a month or so. She likely wouldn't bring up the relationship discussion at this point because you are pretty much behaving as though you are already in a relationship. She clearly hasn't yet figured out she needs to question your intentions. The point is YOU are aware of how you feel. You already know there is no future and without letting her in on your secret YOU are deceiving her. You must see by the majority of responses you've had that to most people would find this behaviour offensive and very hurtful. If you genuinely care an ounce for this girl you will let her know ASAP yiur true feelings about the relationship without sugar coating it with how much you like her etc. You need to give her the straight up truth. I don't understand why you are trying to deflect your responsibility here on to her to say she could bring it up. Well she certainly can and would when she is ready or when she has figured it out for herself. You however might be ahead of her you already know how you feel about her and the respectful, kind and decent thing to do is tell her straight away. 2
266696687 Posted April 26, 2016 Posted April 26, 2016 F. Happily discover that things can continue as they are. Geez, all those guys I dated in my 20's with whom I had no intention of happily-ever-after, yet I behaved pretty much like a gf because I was a gf, just not one with a "forever" future. OP, talk to her. It's not impossible that she's on the same page you are. No one is saying she definitely isn't on the same page as him but because he has decided there is no future he has a moral responsibility to let her know rather than potentially really hurting her in the long run. That is all everyone is saying. The issue is he has known for more than a month but continues anyway. If you genuinely care about someone you wouldn't want to hurt them so being honest as soon as possible is the grown up decent thing to do. 1
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