Am I going about this casual relationship wrong?

[Jabron1]

That was basically all I had to say. But I addressed the wrong person when I hit the quote button. My point was that I've admitted to possibly making a mess of things but im still being told I think my behavior is ok.

 

That being said, early on when I was in the process of narrowing my dates down to this girl, there was another girl I was seeing who I was paying for every weekend, texting during the week, and after about a month when I kissed her she said she didn't think I wanted anything more than friends, despite the fact I'd been romancing her and investing in her. She claimed those gestures did not express the desire for a romantic relationship.

 

Additionally. Saying I'm still in love with my ex. I'm going to have feelings for her for a long time. Maybe over a year. Should I just avoid dating altogether until that time? She was the only gf i ever had and im 30 now. There are girls who I could definitely commit to if they were interested in me. I thought this current girl might be one, to a lesser extent, but my feelings just stopped growing in the past month.

 

I mean what are you supposed to do when you first meet someone? Don't you pay for meals and text them if you had a good time? Get physical?

 

I know. It's just stupid.

 

Go out, have fun, and get laid. That's what guys do.

 

Don't let anyone tell you that it's on your shoulders to start chasing definitions for relationships. That's a girl thing, and not your problem.

 

In this thread, you are basically being guilt tripped into having an exclusivity discussion, to tell her that you don't want exclusivity. It boggles the mind . I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.

 

By the sounds of things, you are treating her well, and having fun. If she wants exclusivity, she will ask for it.

 

You certainly aren't responsible for initiating a conversation that you don't even want . It's ludicrous.

[katiegrl]

SMH...I can only yawn at this point

 

I'm sorry, but if you are really this unaware (clueless) perhaps you suffer from some sort of social disorder like Aspergers or something. I mean no disrespect when I say that, I am truly wondering.

 

I mean do you not realize that this girl could be falling in love with you right at this moment?

 

And believing, due to YOUR actions (ahem pretending) that you are falling in love with her as well?

 

When the fact is, you are simply going through the motions, don't feel a spark, see no future with her, still in love with your ex, and planning on dumping her in a couple of months.

 

In what world do you live wherein this is even remotely okay, fair, honest, kind, acceptable.

 

What am I missing spriggan? Please explain it, cuz as it reads now, this sounds very very wrong and completely unfair to her.

 

You have a hidden agenda that she knows nothing about.

Edited April 24, 2016 by katiegrl

[katiegrl]

I know. It's just stupid.

 

Go out, have fun, and get laid. That's what guys do.

 

Don't let anyone tell you that it's on your shoulders to start chasing definitions for relationships. That's a girl thing, and not your problem.

 

In this thread, you are basically being guilt tripped into having an exclusivity discussion, to tell her that you don't want exclusivity. It boggles the mind . I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.

 

By the sounds of things, you are treating her well, and having fun. If she wants exclusivity, she will ask for it.

 

You certainly aren't responsible for initiating a conversation that you don't even want . It's ludicrous.

 

Treating her well?

 

He is lying to her, by omission.

 

His actions are leading her to believe he is moving toward serious relationship, when the fact is he has no intention of going there. And is planning on dumping her in a couple of months.

 

If he wants only casual, a short-term fling, that is FINE.

 

And as such, he needs to stop all the romancing, and going through motions of having an exclusive relationship, leading to commitment.

 

That is wrong.

 

Keep it casual. Have great sex!

 

But forget the *courtship* thing, all the romancing, ....it's not the right approach in this particular situation since it appears he only want something casual. At least with this particular woman.

 

It's misleading.

Edited April 24, 2016 by katiegrl

[katiegrl]

spriggan, I would also like to remind you of the title of this thread.

 

"Am I going about this Casual relationship wrong"?

 

Yes you are going about this *Casual* relationship wrong, because your actions (courtship, romancing) reflect you want more than casual.

 

Like I said before, absolutely nothing wrong with wanting casual.

 

But be sure your own actions reflect you only want casual.

 

If that is not enough for her, then she can bring it up.

 

At that point, you tell her you only want casual.

 

Ideally, it would be nice if you told her that up front, I know I would appreciate that.

 

But your actions will speak volumes and if she is not okay with the casual arrange, she will bring it up.

 

But again no *courtship* no *romancing*. That is how a man behaves when he is looking for something long term and serious with a particular woman. Not casual.

 

Good luck.

Edited April 24, 2016 by katiegrl

[spriggan2]

and planning on dumping her in a couple of months.

Have you overlooked the following posts I made earlier?

 

I think spending a summer together, doing fun things and then going our separate ways towards the end of the year would be ideal, if that is what she wants.

 

But yes, sounds like I'm making excuses. Next time we go out I will bring up the relationship talk and try to be as clear about what I think I want and see if she wants the same. I'm realizing that is important at this stage regardless of everything else. I just really wish there was a way to not make her feel like I'm rejecting her.

 

I've said repeatedly now that I plan to be clear with her next time we go out. She's out of town this weekend.

 

I realize that as soon as I suspected she might not be the one I should have said something. That realization was about a month ago and became clearer since then. I take blame for that and I've resolved to come clean.

 

There is a huge difference between a year or two and a month or two, as well as between making the mistake once, and having it happen repeatedly. No way I'd let something like this drag on much longer than I have, as evidenced by this post.

 

if you are really this unaware (clueless) perhaps you suffer from some sort of social disorder like Aspergers or something.

Oh please. Get. A. Grip.

 

===

 

And to Jabron and TXGuy, while I have certainly not overtly misled this girl, and I feel like she has not given me any clear indicators that she thinks we're moving in a serious relationship direction (she said she isn't even comfortable inviting me to her apartment yet, I have not met her friends or vice versa, she has not asked for commitment or exclusivity), and while I've intuited that she's an experienced enough girl to understand the ambiguity of attraction before a serious relationship is established, I still feel that if there is a risk of hurting her further by letting things go on when I've decided I don't want serious, I will come clean. If she leaves I'm fine with it. I've slowly begun to realize how easily I can generate attraction from women in general when that wasn't so clear to me before. I have less of a scarcity mindset.

[katiegrl]

I meant no disrespect by the Aspergers comment and said so, do no I don't need to get a grip.

 

I just found it odd you were this unaware, tis all.

 

But in reading your last post, it appears you are quite aware of how your actions could possibly be misleading her, so I was wrong.... and apologize if I offended you.

 

Good luck moving forward.

[spriggan2]

But again no *courtship* no *romancing*. That is how a man behaves when he is looking for something long term and serious with a particular woman. Not casual.

 

You have to understand I did not know this. She is the second girl I've ever dated. I thought I was just being a gentleman. I thought it was worse, no matter the intent, to simply ask for what I wanted from a girl (sex, companionship, attention) without wining and dining her, entertaining her, getting to know her as a person, giving her special treatment. I felt it would be sleazy even if that was agreed to. Because as I said before, even though I don't see a long term future with her, I think she is special, sweet, fun, attractive, cool and smart. Personally however I'm looking for a little more sophistication and depth. Sometimes I feel like who am I to reject anyone, but there you have it.

 

I've realized the issue that causes though.

[katiegrl]

You have to understand I did not know this. She is the second girl I've ever dated. I thought I was just being a gentleman. I thought it was worse, no matter the intent, to simply ask for what I wanted from a girl (sex, companionship, attention) without wining and dining her, entertaining her, getting to know her as a person, giving her special treatment. I felt it would be sleazy even if that was agreed to. Because as I said before, even though I don't see a long term future with her, I think she is special, sweet, fun, attractive, cool and smart. Personally however I'm looking for a little more sophistication and depth. Sometimes I feel like who am I to reject anyone, but there you have it.

 

I've realized the issue that causes though.

 

I figured you didn't know, which is why I wanted to explain.

 

Look, I think you are a really good guy spriggan and want to do the right thing.

 

I am glad you came on here asking the question.

 

There are many guys out there who DO know the difference but wouldn't care.

 

You DO. Which is awesome!

 

It's all a learning process. You'll get there.

 

Follow your conscience, treat people as you wish to be treated, behave with honesty and integrity, and you'll be okay.

 

Best of luck!!

[myothernic2]

This is a good example of when women ask advice on here about labels, "well, he does everything as if we're in a relationship, tells me I'm great, spends ton of quality time with me, takes me on dates BUT he doesn't want to label the relationship. He does say we're exclusive and he doesn't intend on pursuing others". They're usually advised to "stop being stuck on labels, his actions say you're in a relationship, stop caring about dumb labels". Well here you go, there's usually more to the hesitation of the not wanting to label.

 

I think you're thinking in the right direction by being more clear.

[elaine567]

This is a good example of when women ask advice on here about labels, "well, he does everything as if we're in a relationship, tells me I'm great, spends ton of quality time with me, takes me on dates BUT he doesn't want to label the relationship. He does say we're exclusive and he doesn't intend on pursuing others". They're usually advised to "stop being stuck on labels, his actions say you're in a relationship, stop caring about dumb labels". Well here you go, there's usually more to the hesitation of the not wanting to label.

 

I think you're thinking in the right direction by being more clear.

 

NO, that is NOT the advise usually given, the advice usually given is that if he says he doesn't want to be in a relationship, then believe him and stop writing love stories in your head.

[abby_tx]

Two months of what from my perspective looks and feels like a serious loving relationship? I'd be FURIOUS if you kept this from me. Tell her now. Don't act like you want a real relationship if you don't.

[katiegrl]

NO, that is NOT the advise usually given, the advice usually given is that if he says he doesn't want to be in a relationship, then believe him and stop writing love stories in your head.

 

elaine, I think you and myothernic are saying the same thing.

 

myo said when a man *acts* like he wants a relationship but does *not* want to label, to pay attention to that and don't "write love your stories in your head" (your words).

 

You said when a man actually *tells* you he does not want a relationship, to pay attention to that and don't write love stories in your head.

 

You're essentially saying the same thing.

 

Pay attention to words and actions, make sure they jive, and don't write love stories in your head.

Edited April 24, 2016 by katiegrl

[Jabron1]

I'm struggling with this one.

 

I think you are all heaping unreasonable expectations on men here.

 

She's an adult. Perfectly capable of handling her business. She can define the relationship anytime, if that's what she wants.

[myothernic2]

NO, that is NOT the advise usually given, the advice usually given is that if he says he doesn't want to be in a relationship, then believe him and stop writing love stories in your head.

 

I know what *I've*read.... and I've seen countless amount of people suggest to not focus so much on the "silly" label.

[katiegrl]

I'm struggling with this one.

 

I think you are all heaping unreasonable expectations on men here.

 

She's an adult. Perfectly capable of handling her business. She can define the relationship anytime, if that's what she wants.

 

You think it's unreasonable to expect men to behave with honesty and integrity?

 

If not with words, then with actions?

 

Meaning, if he wants only a casual relationship, which is fine, then he acts in such a way that reflects he only wants casual.

 

If he is seeking a serious relationship, then he acts in such a way that reflects he wants a serious relationship.... i.e. courtship and romancing.

 

Problem here is spriggan is acting like a man who wants a serious relationship, when the truth is he only wants casual. With this particular girl anyway.

 

He does NOT need to define anything IMO.

 

Just *act* accordingly so as to avoid misleading her.

 

If you don't agree then so be it.

[Jabron1]

Meaning, if he wants only a casual relationship, which is fine, then he acts in such a way that reflects he only wants casual.

 

No way is any guy going to be second guessing himself over whether or not a date constitutes as 'casual' or 'relationship material'.

 

Guys don't think like this. You are projecting your femininity onto men.

 

You're holding men responsible, for something that we aren't.

[katiegrl]

No way is any guy going to be second guessing himself over whether or not a date constitutes as 'casual' or 'relationship material'.

 

Guys don't think like this. You are projecting your femininity onto men.

 

You're holding men responsible, for something that we aren't.

 

Well spriggan did otherwise he would not have started a thread about it.

 

He knew his behaviour was wrong on some level...otherwise, again he would not have started a thread asking about it.

 

And sorry Jabron but I choose to give men more credit.

 

IMO most if not all are perfectly aware of their actions and how those actions come across to a particular woman they are dating.

 

And if they want casual, they sure as hell aren't going to be *romancing* her and *courting* her.... as they would if they saw a future with her and something serious eventually.

 

Do you behave that way with a woman you see no future with and only want something casual with?

 

Romancing her, courting her, becoming exclusive? Etc?

 

If so, well then wow, that surprises me.

[Jabron1]

Well spriggan did otherwise he would not have started a thread about it.

 

He knew his behaviour was wrong on some level...otherwise, again he would not have started a thread asking about it.

 

And sorry Jabron but I choose to give men more credit.

 

IMO most if not all are perfectly aware of their actions and how those actions come across to a particular woman they are dating.

 

And if they want casual, they sure as hell aren't going to be *romancing* her and *courting* her.... as they would if they saw a future with her and something serious eventually.

 

Do you behave that way with a woman you see no future with and only want something casual with?

 

Romancing her, courting her, becoming exclusive? Etc?

 

If so, well then wow, that surprises me.

 

Define exactly the activities that I'm limited to, as a man that starts every relationship with a casual attitude

[katiegrl]

Define exactly the activities that I'm limited to, as a man that starts every relationship with a casual attitude

 

Oh come on now Jabron, please.

 

You really don't know the difference between looking for casual and looking for serious?

 

And how a man's actions would differ with respect to which of those two things he wants?

 

Really?

 

I was under the impression you were quite experienced.

[katiegrl]

Jabron, read the third paragraph of his initial post.

 

Those are not the actions of a man only wanting casual.

[spriggan2]

If he is seeking a serious relationship, then he acts in such a way that reflects he wants a serious relationship.... i.e. courtship and romancing.

 

Just *act* accordingly so as to avoid misleading her.

 

To be clear. I think it's wrong to assume that courting and romancing means I want a serious relationship. But because there is a high risk of that assumption being made I understand why I might want to make it clear as soon as possible, just to avoid confusion and pain.

 

But I feel like I'm proof that courting and romancing does not automatically mean I want a serious relationship. Even after I tell this girl what I want, if she agrees to it, I don't plan on slowing things down in the romancing or going on dates department.

 

I mean it's Spring, the weather's getting nice, there are lovely parks in my neighborhood, stylish restaurants, ballets, Broadway plays coming to town, shows, concerts, parties. In addition to sex I want to share all these things in the company of an interesting girl. I want to take her back to my place and light scented candles and drink wine and watch French films on the couch. Play romantic pieces on my piano for her. But I'm just not in the right frame of mind to build a future with a girl unless I come across someone who truly rocks my world. But I'm not ready to have that deep soul search either. I want to have fun with romance and share in its delights.

 

If, when I tell this girl I want casual, she says "ok but I only want sex and no romance," then it's me who's going to say goodbye. I want something more than that. Is that impossible?

Edited April 24, 2016 by spriggan2

[Jabron1]

To be clear. I think it's wrong to assume that courting and romancing means I want a serious relationship.

 

I agree with you. Romance is part of the fun.

 

Doesn't mean that I'm getting married anytime soon though.

 

If, when I tell this girl I want casual, she says "ok but I only want sex and no romance," then it's me who's going to say goodbye. I want something more than that. Is that impossible?

 

Agreed. Casual sex alone can get boring.

 

It's like the girls here are putting you on a monogamous road, or telling you to only netflix and chill

[katiegrl]

spriggan, FWIW, I agree with your friend, who I presume is a man also?

 

Casual = Keeping options open and remaining somewhat detached emotionally.

 

I am actually quite surprised by Jabrons'comments as this is precisely what he advocates nearly every single day on here.

 

Anyway, smart man your friend, honest, open and behaves with integrity. I like him.

 

Good luck going forward!

[katiegrl]

I agree with you. Romance is part of the fun.

 

Doesn't mean that I'm getting married anytime soon though.

 

 

 

Agreed. Casual sex alone can get boring.

 

It's like the girls here are putting you on a monogamous road, or telling you to only netflix and chill

 

Yeah and if this girl behaved this way, and spriggan was the the one getting all emotionally involved and wrapprd up, you'd be screaming at him to keep his options open and remain detached!!

 

Anyhoo I am done here, said my piece.

 

Agree to disagree.

[ExpatInItaly]

To be clear. I think it's wrong to assume that courting and romancing means I want a serious relationship. But because there is a high risk of that assumption being made I understand why I might want to make it clear as soon as possible, just to avoid confusion and pain.

 

But I feel like I'm proof that courting and romancing does not automatically mean I want a serious relationship. Even after I tell this girl what I want, if she agrees to it, I don't plan on slowing things down in the romancing or going on dates department.

 

I mean it's Spring, the weather's getting nice, there are lovely parks in my neighborhood, stylish restaurants, ballets, Broadway plays coming to town, shows, concerts, parties. In addition to sex I want to share all these things in the company of an interesting girl. I want to take her back to my place and light scented candles and drink wine and watch French films on the couch. Play romantic pieces on my piano for her. But I'm just not in the right frame of mind to build a future with a girl unless I come across someone who truly rocks my world. But I'm not ready to have that deep soul search either. I want to have fun with romance and share in its delights.

 

If, when I tell this girl I want casual, she says "ok but I only want sex and no romance," then it's me who's going to say goodbye. I want something more than that. Is that impossible?

 

Because you admittedly lack experience with women, I will tell you (as a woman myself) that you're going to run into trouble with that. Fair or not, many will assume you do want something more if you "court" them. Remember that moving forward.

 

Enjoy your time but be honest about what you're looking for (or not) so the woman in question knows what she's getting into. It doesn't mean you need to have an "exclusivity talk" but it does mean that you need to watch that your actions line up with your words. It's good that you're realizing this.

 

I asked previously if why you and your ex broke up, and how long you were together. I feel this is relevant because it's generally not a wise idea to begin dating without first grieving the loss of the previous relationship. That tends to lead to a rebound in which we're trying hard to fill that void left by an ex, but that's often a futile venture and generally winds up hurting the person who's unwittingly acting as the placeholder. What were the circumstances surrounding your breakup?