What Am I Doing???

[Ladyjane14]

Good question, when I was FMOW my xOM had a long-term, long distance gf. I thought about HER the most, more than involving XOM. I wasn't thinking, my actions were very vengeful and I had no empathy for my WH or XOM I guess. I figured XOM knew I was married and knew my WH had cheated. I wasn't thinking at all only acting out. Pretty sad.

 

So basically you're saying that a person just gets to a point where they're so distraught that they become disconnected from their ethics? Is it a kind of compartmentalization?.. or is it more like a total repression of thoughts regarding the betrayed party?

[ladydesigner]

So basically you're saying that a person just gets to a point where they're so distraught that they become disconnected from their ethics? Is it a kind of compartmentalization?.. or is it more like a total repression of thoughts regarding the betrayed party?

 

I had total repression of thoughts for the betrayed party yes for sure.

 

I was definitely disconnected from my ethics at the time. I was totally impulsive and reckless. I almost felt like I wanted to ruin my M. It was strange. I have had really poor coping skills up until the last four years I have been working non stop at it and understand what they are. There was a lot I did not know about and discovered cognitive therapy which has really helped me.

[ladydesigner]

And I would NEVER advise a revenge affair today. No way!

[merrmeade]

This thread is intriguing to me mainly because of the questions surrounding OP's apparent lack of accountability/humanity toward the spouses of the married women with whom he's “tested the waters.” At first I shared LJ's bewilderment at the apparent suspension of personal ethics:

I don't get it. I really don't.

 

… It's the involvement of a third party that didn't deserve to be treated that way by someone who knows how it feels.

 

I have to wonder what the emotional mechanics of that might be. What's the payoff that makes it worth living with the guilt? Or is there just not any guilt at that point?

Well, it made me think that we tend to assume things about a BS just because he’s a victim. Yes, he deserves and needs WS's empathy and remorse, but the BS isn't necessarily himself an empathic, conscientious, morally aware or deliberative person just because he was cheated on.

 

Perhaps marital fidelity is not always the result of personal ethics. Maybe it's more about personal loyalty for some people, who are themselves loyal because they expect it returned. Fidelity is to the individual, and once it’s lost no one owes anyone anything. In this case, it has less to do with moral fiber and more to do with rights and entitlement. If you're married, you're entitled to spousal fidelity; you give it, so you should get it. So once you’ve been cheated on, you have no reason to be faithful to that person.

 

When I thought about this kind of interpretation of everything in terms of self and the individual ego, it's not so surprising that the reconciliation in this case is also about what WW gives and does for and to him: The sex is good and she bends over backwards to please him. That's still loyalty and service to him personally that’s not quite as good as being monogamous, but he suggests that's the best she can give, having already destroyed their exclusivity.

 

Another thing, you can't assume is that every BS was or becomes a reflective, self-aware person who needs to analyze and understand his own, his spouse's or anyone else's motives, character or thought process. For example, it seems like OP has only recently begun to reflect on some of his own contradictions while advising his brother:

… my brother is currently going through a divorce.

 

This kind of re-surfaced some of my own feelings. His wife left him and the kids while she went and moved in with my brother's best friend.

 

Lately I've been kind of down and out trying to talk to my brother and vent off to my wife. There are definitely awkward moments when I'm saying things knowing she went off and strayed too.

And this remark:

Boy this forum has really got my wheels turning.

makes it sound like this may be the first time his wheels have been turning around some of these questions.

 

Take that back. There’s been some reflection:

It amazes me how many women who are married or in some sort of committed relationship who don't hesitate to mess around. I've tested the waters and most of you would probably be surprised how many are willing to go have a fling and continue their relationships.

He’s discovered wayward wives and reflects on their lack of accountability, removing himself apparently from the same relationship constraints, since he is

not out scouting for women. It's more like opportunities come up here and there and my wall is completely down. I do sympathize with their spouses if they are married. It's kind of messed up to be honest.

 

And this is the problem. This is why we cannot really give OP the traumatized victim margin of doubt. We could have said that OP never recovered from that period after Dday when a BS is completely in shock and not reacting normally. We could have said that maybe his sense of empathy and personal accountability just haven't been turned back on. Or perhaps the cruel blow of the affair left him traumatized, unable to rise out of his own victimhood, unable to feel anyone else’s pain or recognize the innocent victims of his own actions. But he does recognize what he is doing. He even lets himself off the hook by blaming someone else.

 

The fact is we do not know what OP was like before the A, but we do know that he’s beginning to ask questions about his thoughts and feelings now. Maybe THIS is the reason for the thread since he admits to becoming “desensitized … numb to it.” He’s beginning to recognize that “this is probably bad” and has made him “a bitter person.”

 

It’s not necessary to figure it all out at once either. We are all exposed when we start a thread; we all have a lot that we’ve deceived ourselves about. OP, you’re no better nor worse than anyone else here and it’s brave to expose yourself this way. I’m not trying to offend and I’m sure some of my hypotheses are wrong, but I think this is why you posted here. You’re asking for something. Only you can know what might be true about our observations.

Edited April 27, 2016 by merrmeade

[Ladyjane14]

I wonder if there's something about our modern day culture, where everyone is a special snowflake, that has added to this entitlement of ego. I think there's a strong point in what you've said, Merrmeade.

 

Could be trauma for a lot of folks, as we see from Ladydesigner's posts above. But you're right, it's an assumption that the ability to empathize is already built-in. I'm not sure if that's a learned skill or or in which part of the brain it's developed. If it's associated with the "lizard brain" rather than with the frontal cortex, it's possible that it could be disrupted by an amygdala on chronic high alert, I would suppose.

 

That said, my own amygdala has been set at "chronic high alert" for some time now ...and I still couldn't imagine myself going this far. I have however, noted some loss of empathy in non-related situations.

 

There's something illusive here, maybe a bit from Column A and a bit from Column B? Maybe a bit left over from disconnection in childhood, a Column C, perhaps?

[OneLov]

I think this thread demonstrates that infidelity doesn't create heroes and villains -- only broken people.

[ladydesigner]

I think this thread demonstrates that infidelity doesn't create heroes and villains -- only broken people.

 

Yes it does. I have been obsessed with the subject of infidelity since I have experienced it and unfortunately done it myself. A lot of broken people for sure. My children didn't deserve any of it from me or my WH. It is a nasty thing for sure. I am always amazed at how affairs are romanticized on TV and in the OW/OM forum. There is nothing special or romantic about an A. Period!

[drifter777]

Bigman is right. It's not the revenge affair that makes me curious. I get that. It's the involvement of a third party that didn't deserve to be treated that way by someone who knows how it feels.

 

I have to wonder what the emotional mechanics of that might be. What's the payoff that makes it worth living with the guilt? Or is there just not any guilt at that point?

I don't think guilt or morality are part of revenge. It's a primal response to an injury like an injured bear biting at its own wound. In this case the third party is simply collateral damage to the emotional terrorism known as infidelity.

[ladydesigner]

I don't think guilt or morality are part of revenge. It's a primal response to an injury like an injured bear biting at its own wound. In this case the third party is simply collateral damage to the emotional terrorism known as infidelity.

 

This is certainly what it felt like for me, like a madwoman was driving the bus. I am accountable for my RA and I have never been on the slippery slope since even throughout my WH's LTA.

[Silveron]

To the OP:

 

 

When my ex-fiancée cheated and we split up there was a 1 year period where I hated women. I felt they were all about themselves, so all I did was have one night stands and did sleep with a married woman. I was desensitized, I made myself numb and felt this was a way to get back at my ex.

 

 

What I realized after about a year of this was that I was only harming myself. I also had to look deep into my soul and realize what I did wrong in the relationship. I had to stop blaming her and take responsibility for what I did when we were together. Though I didn't cheat when I was with her, I abandoned her emotionally. Got too comfortable and took her for granted I guess you can say.

 

 

Anyway I didn't want to repeat the same mistake I did with the next girl I fell in love with. What I realized was that I wanted to be understood, wanted a companion and these one nighters was not the answer. No amount of women that you sleep with is going to cure what the root of the problem that is inside you and between you and your wife. You are just trying to block off the loneliness. The problem with that is, it will come back as a rush if you don't deal with it now.

 

 

I hope for your sake you don't have children, that brings another variable in this and it's them that really suffer in all of it. It's time to take responsibility for yourself and do the right thing. Counseling would be a good start.

[drifter777]

I don't think guilt or morality are part of revenge. It's a primal response to an injury like an injured bear biting at its own wound. In this case the third party is simply collateral damage to the emotional terrorism known as infidelity.

To clarify, this is how I would explain this behavior but in no way justify it.

[Zenstudent]

I think Mermeades anser to the opening post is spot on, good post. I like the discussion about rights and entitlement.

 

OP's wife has with her actions clearly demonstrated that they aren't exclusive and in a monogamous relationship. She doesn't value the loyalty, security and safety that OP provided.

 

OP, as well as most other married people, offer loyalty with the expectation of receiving the same in return.

 

OP, do as you please, just don't hurt anyone else in the proces.