What Am I Doing???

[renaissancewoman]

What I mean by do life together is not just merely spending time together. I spend time with my coworkers, I don't do life with them. I mean you two share your dreams, you work towards a bright future with each other, you support each other in all areas, the thought of ever hurting one another causes you deep pain and you would avoid it all costs, you would go through great lengths to do anything that would make them happy because your happiness IS their happiness. That is what I mean by doing life together.

 

I understand that you are in deep pain. It is palpable in your words. I don't believe that you are desensitized, I believe that you have covered up your pain and on some level, you know you are still hurting and are desperately trying to make it stop. I'm very sorry that you are going through this. I am sorry for your wife who I'm sure is trying very hard to figure out a way to reconnect with you. I hope that you two can find your way back to each other IF THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. You have to decide that you are willing to WORK for that. At the moment, you don't strike me as someone who cares enough to try. And that's okay too. Just understand that what you are doing now is not moving forward in a healthy way. You are keeping yourself and your wife in a state of limbo and prolonging the hurt, which will affect your children in the long run if it hasn't already. They will pick up on the coldness with which you describe and that is no way to model how to have loving and healthy relationships.

 

To be honest, I don't really care about the promises I made to my wife. Those evaporated when I found out about her affair. I don't really care about those anymore.

 

How many of you reconciled "happy"? I'm sure most of you got to an accepting phase. I love my wife but hate her for what she did. It's a weird internal feeling but that's the best way to describe my feelings for her.

 

When I say love I don't even know if I'm "in love" with her. Maybe I just love that I'm used to her, I don't know.

 

There's definitely not a feeling of deep love between us. I get annoyed easy by her and I'm sure she senses that. I don't feel the same obligation I did pre affair to hear her bs or cater like I used to.

 

I'm not here to punish her either. She knows how I feel and she decided to stick it out. I told her I wasn't sure I'd be able to pull through but was willing to give it a shot.

 

We are at a state where I don't think it's bad in the sense that we aren't down each other's throats.

 

Like I said before, we still do things as a family and still do things together. Things haven't felt right for a long time now. I feel like I desensitized myself to it all and just became numb to it.

 

In all, this is probably bad. In some things it's made me a bitter person. What happened has distorted my views of marriage and how much of a joke it is in today's society.

 

Everybody wants to screw everybody else. If it ain't this marriage the chances on the next one will probably have a similar probability.

 

Anyways, some of you have raised valid points. I wouldn't mind proposing an open marriage to her. I'm not sure how she'd take it but I think it would be something to consider.

 

I wouldn't be thrilled though coming home to her getting plowed by some other guy m-f. Would at least have to set some ground rules to keep that in a hotel as well as I.

[Liam1]

She claims this guy listened well. It's something many of us I'm sure forget to do which ends up causing separation between both parties.

 

This in my case contributed to the affair. She was obviously attracted to the guy so I'm sure she jumped at everything she could to find problems in our marriage to validate what she was doing.

 

When I found out I didn't tell her to stop what she was doing. In fact, I kind of egged her on to continue if that's what she wanted. She seemed to turn around though after I found out.

 

Can't make this up.:

 

As others have said, if you are going to reconcile, you need to BOTH be all in. You both need to live in the present and focus on the marriage as it exists in the present.

 

As infidelity expert, Esther Perel opines: "We are in an era where people may have two or three marriages, but why not have those three marriages in the same marriage. "

 

Your marriage can evolve and improve after an affair, but only if you are open to it.

 

I gave my wife the option of having one revenge affair, if she wanted to, and she thought that would even the score and allow her to take her power back.

 

So maybe your idea of broaching a one-time open marriage fling, might work.

 

My wife, however,has thus far declined to accept the offer. Still, I think there are far worse things in a marriage than a sexual fling.

 

As for feeling she is "tainted" because she had sex with someone else.....ask yourself why?

 

Were you both virgins when you married?

 

If not, you both had sex before you were married, do you obsess about the sex she may have had with those men?

 

Most likely you don't.

 

So why not put the affair sex in the same box, with ex boyfriend sex, and put the lid on it and forget about it.

 

Some infidelity counselors actually advise a BS to do what I just suggested.

 

Your wife obviously loves you because she is working hard on the marriage.

 

Do you feel that she is staying with you out of obligation? Is that what bothers you?

 

If so, individual counseling may help you think more clearly.

 

Also, perhaps if you are south of 40 you may be going through a mid-life crisis.

 

No marriage is perfect, and anyone can be vulnerable to an affair if the circumstances and opportunity are ripe and right.

[bigman1]

Unless I missed it, you have not said if you are having sex OUTSIDE of your marriage.

 

In any event, you are contradictory. You say that you see what a "joke" marriage is, yet you remain married. Nothing stops you from getting divorced and still living together. She knows your antipathy towards her and seems to accept it. You talk about an "open marriage" yet want to propose ground rules. These are just contradictions. I mean the whole concept, not just open marriage with rules.

 

Maybe you are just rambling a stream of consciousness to purge your mind. In that case, contradictions are expected. On the other hand, you are serious. In that case, based on all that you have posted, the contradictions make no sense.

 

You need to pick a path and walk it. Right now, you are straddling the fence. That is not a path. I can't even begin to understand why she stays. I mean, if she's in it for the long haul, then I would imagine that she'd be doing whatever it took to change your mind and make amends. Seeing how it does not appear so, she would be unrepentant. In that case, why would she continue like this?

[sandylee1]

I understand how you feel. When your spouse steps out its very difficult to see them in the same light or really trust them with your heart again... after all they've stomped on it and you'll never forget that.

 

Society expect women to have a higher moral standard.... so to many BHs ..... The thought of their wife being with another man makes him loose respect for her. Many that I've spoken to cite the unfair custody they'd face and the thought of another man seeing their kids every day, as their reason for not leaving. They play happy families till such time that they have formed a solid relationship with their kids.

 

Many who stay and don't divorce have that bitterness and anger for the duration of the marriage.

 

I don't think you deserve to get flammed here .... infidelity changes your whole persona.

[ladydesigner]

None of what you say here is at all weird. It describes me and my situation pretty accurately and from the hundred's of betrayed men who post here and on other sites I'd say you & I represent the majority of men who stay with their WW. I'm sure that, statistically, we represent couples who successfully reconciled after infidelity. I don't feel successful, do you?

 

I'm now in my 60's but you sound relatively young. My strong advise to you is to divorce her right f'ing now. You can continue to be a great father for your kids without living with their mother. I think you & WW deserve a shot at a fresh relationship without this infidelity burden dragging you down. Your kids will adjust quickly and you will be happy you did this in a few short months. Good luck.

 

I always relate to your post Drifter and it's not only betrayed men that feel this way, us women are the same. I feel like I'm stuck in a half-a** M now.

[ladydesigner]

Op I think because your WW did not put the work in or show you the remorse you deserved is why you feel this way.

 

My WH is about as unremorseful as it gets. He took his A underground for another 2 years when i thought we were R'ing. He seems the most remorseful now but it is too little too late, the damage has been done.

 

For many it is not the A that is the dealbreaker, but the WS's actions post Dday.

[HereNorThere]

She claims it's because he listened well?

 

That's blameshifting. She basically turned it around on you and said if you had listened better, she wouldn't be sleeping with other people. That's about as absurd as it gets. I've got friends who are great listeners, but I don't have to sleep with them to get their ear.

 

She did what she did because she wanted to sleep with someone else. If she just wanted a cute guy to listen to her without sex, well, she could posting here and getting responses from me.

[ShatteredLady]

When I first joined this site I'm not even sure what I was looking for. I was broken (or any tense applicable that day) & desperate. I felt very lonely. Infidelity & heartbreak isn't exactly something we chat about at the neighborhood bbq, particularly as a man I bet!

 

I confused people with the way I wrote. Like you! We don't know if you're out sleeping around most nights & treating your wife with utter contempt. I don't think you are! I think you're like me, very sad & very broken & don't really know what to do because every single option seems like loosing...but I know I'm loosing part of my self everyday & I'm angry & resentful.

 

My advise? This is an anonymous forum. It doesn't matter if you're sleeping with 50 MW or 0! I found it a lot more helpful & supportive when I became completely open & honest & looked deep inside to think about people's comments.

 

You don't know me. I could be your neighbor! You could be mine! That's the strength of these forums.

 

You present as a bitter man using his wife, festering in anger, hating women. I don't think you are...

[ShatteredLady]

Mine did it because I didn't make him feel "special" when I was recovering from life saving surgery!

 

Although there might be a element of truth to what cheaters say it's often exaggerated, history is rewritten to justify their actions to themselves.

 

Obviously some affairs have different issues at their core. If her reasoning was abuse & neglect I'd be taking it more seriously but very, very few people can claim that after a hard days work, kids, life etc. they are always the best listeners! That's something you chat about on a Saturday night... She needs to look deeper than that!!

 

In my experience instinctive responses are to blame the H/W. It takes a lot of introspection for cheaters to see where they are responsible.

 

Do you feel like it's been too long now? You rugswept & now the resentment is ever growing but bringing it all up again is like "You never let this drop!". When you've never got to the bottom of it in the first place?

 

If you could turn back time what would d-day & the months after look like now?

[flowergirl14]

How did you feel after cheating on your wife the first time? Did it even the score so to speak? Did you gain back your percieved loss of power? If there have been multiple affairs is it helping you or hurting? I am a bs who stayed and have contemplated having an affair not for revenge but rather to feel like im not getting shafted by staying with an unfaithful partner. You know whats good for the goose gander analogy. I too have become desensitized. Went to mc didnt get what I needed, rugswept. Fear that my next partner could be the sane or worse, financial problems. So for now, I focus on being happy, present and loving with those that show me the same respect. In all fairness, my cheating h who has a mistress and a wife and family is NOT a happy person. How can he be when he lies and betrays as easily as he speaks. I see it! At this point I've chosen to remain faithful but I see how a bs could choose to go to the dark side. Healthy, authentic living requires change, sacrifice, and pain. It isnt an overnight process. I think it is easier to stay than face being the best version of ourselves. Isnt that the crux of cheating. Cheaters arent one hundred percent happy with themselves, spouse, job, whatever so they seek out someone to fill those needs, desires instead of doing Everything to right their situation. Did you ever think about taking up a healthy hobby or traveling if you are going to stay in the marriage? I too get on well with my h and stay married but it still isnt authentic. Not one day goes by that Im at peace with staying with a cheater. Sounds like the same for you. Change is hard. Forced changed is harder. And change by you is the hardest! You can only do you and I can only do me.

[TrustedthenBusted]

 

We operate together pretty good and things have not been bad. I just don't feel any commitment towards her. Is this common for others who have felt similar types of betrayal?

 

I totally hear where you're coming from. And yes, I'd say it's pretty common, especially for the first few years.

 

Do I have the same level of respect and commitment for my wife? Hell no. She has shown that she will risk it all, and there is no way to "un-show" me that.

 

That said, this hell-on-earth has also helped us in many ways. Our communication is 1000 times better today than its ever been. And that is worth a lot to me.

 

Like you, I also found that scoring married women is much much easier than single ones, although I never actually went through with any sex.

 

Thing is, what you are doing now isn't cool. You are maintaining and exploiting this false moral high ground, letting your wife continue to suffer for her poor choices while you make even worse ones behind her back.

 

That's the person you are right now. Is that what you want?

[CantMakeThisUp]

I really did have mixed feelings about posting here but I'm kind of glad I did. It seems like many of you have been down this road already. I know all of you are strangers but it sure has got my wheels turning.

 

To be honest, a big reason why I am here is because my brother is currently going through a divorce.

 

This kind of re-surfaced some of my own feelings. His wife left him and the kids while she went and moved in with my brother's best friend.

 

Lately I've been kind of down and out trying to talk to my brother and vent off to my wife. There are definitely awkward moments when I'm saying things knowing she went off and strayed too.

 

We co exist together and we're ok. I'm definitely not in my raging happy spot with somebody I look and see a future with.

 

Also, I'm not out scouting for women. It's more like opportunities come up here and there and my wall is completely down. I do sympathize with their spouses if they are married. It's kind of messed up to be honest.

 

I don't really want to get involved with junk like that. Boy this forum has really got my wheels turning. I'll be back a little later. Thanks all for the input.

[drifter777]

When the phony "romantic love" dissolves - as it always does - many of the things that women want dissolve with it. I know that when I was courting my wife I paid much more attention to what she said & did and showered her with attention because I was horny for her night and day and wanted to get laid.

 

This was before we had kids. We didn't have rent & car payments & credit cards bills. I didn't work 40 - 50 hours per week to pay for all that sh*t. She didn't have to stay at home changing diapers and feeding babies & all the other work involved with raising a family. I didn't really have time to pine away for the times when I got BJs while driving in the car and the two of us swimming naked. But she had lots of time to remember how great single life was. To remember all those guys hitting on her and hanging on her every word in hopes they would get in her pants later that night. The massive ego strokes that most women get during their young, single years from loads of guys is impossible to replace. But they miss it and are disappointed that their husband can't be the attentive, horny guy he was before they were married. So my wife strayed because she convinced herself that she was entitled to more attention than I gave her and what she needed was to experience other men and the single life to heal her.

 

Let's face it, a woman can have as much sex with as many men as she wants. Obviously this doesn't mean that women get a pass on cheating any more than men, but there are thousands of articles confirming that men cheat for sex and women cheat for attention. In my case there is no way I could have given my wife the level of attention she wanted and felt she deserved. She went out to get it elsewhere. When she realized she was being used by a couple guys like a Kleenex while I went total NC with her it scared her straight so to speak.

 

Going back to her was the biggest mistake of my life but I can't undo it anymore than she can unfu(k those guys. What hurts the most is that I absolutely knew that what she did was a dealbreaker but I rugswept it and tried to forget it happened. I knew I would never forgive and I knew I would hate the part of her that cheated forever. That's why I preach that men who know in their heart they will never forgive should divorce ASAP. Don't stay for the kids or finances or fear of being alone because staying is a far worse fate and much more difficult to resolve than those things. Guys know if infidelity is a dealbreaker but, when it happens, many of them will deny their true feelings and try to tough it out hoping time will heal their wounds. It's so sad.

[ShatteredLady]

Obviously I've been thinking about a lot of these things recently since I was blindsided.

 

When I was young I got a lot of attention & to be honest I found it pretty annoying. I was one of those girls who had 'serious' boyfriends (always loyal) & a close group of girl friends so basically when I was out I brought my company with me & the last thing I wanted was being constantly hit on.

 

My Dad is one of those men who didn't say "I love you" & I wasn't raised to be a princess. My education was important as was my independence...he taught me how to do basic home maintenance from an early age. His worst nightmare was raising a daughter dependent on a man.

 

I've always had blind faith in my Dads unconditional love. I think that made me pretty realistic! He's never been (financially) romantic with my Mum. I have no doubt he would die for her but buy flowers??? Not so much hahaha! I've always known they slept naked (except cold English winters) & assumed all couples did. We had thin walls so as soon as I was old enough to know what the sounds were I slept with music on!!!

 

I think what I'm saying is, I've never been 'high maintenance' & never cared! Now I wonder if I'd of had a more loyal marriage if I HAD flirted & made him jealous, HAD demanded princess treatment, HAD disappeared on girls nights out & kept him guessing.

 

You talk about women & attention. I think it kind of works both ways. Men like to chase. I've always had more romance & "I can't live without you" when my H has felt insecure because he had a friend that professed his love & adoration of me.

 

It's bloody depressing!!

 

Why's contentment, trust, loyalty, friendship & family, making love & playing most nights with the same person not respected anymore? We're living in a strange world. What I call stress & insecurity others consider excitement & being ALIVE!!

[Joie]

I am one of the people who is happy that they decided to reconcile. However, cheating was never a deal breaker for me. I knew that if my husband and I could still find our love that is where I wanted to be.

 

In marriage counseling we discussed ways that I would know things are getting better. For me it was feeling relaxed in my own home. I was so tense. Our counselor suggested that I put a time limit on things getting better. (not perfect just better). I was shocked when he said 2 years. I thought I can't be unhappy for 2 years. It didn't take me that long. But it did take over a year.

 

However, at the end of the day. My H is the person I want to sit on the porch and grow old with.

 

If you don't see a future with your wife you need to tell her that so you can each find someone you feel that way about.

[ShatteredLady]

Joie. I couldn't agree more! This.....

 

"However, at the end of the day. My H is the person I want to sit on the porch and grow old with."

 

.....is exactly what it all comes down to! When that's gone it's all gone & you're just waiting for the paperwork to catch-up with the reality of your life.

[drifter777]

If you don't see a future with your wife you need to tell her that so you can each find someone you feel that way about.

Yes, in most cases this is the rational thing to do. My case is much different and I don't want to go over it again.

[2.50 a gallon]

I caught my Ex and dumped her. The moment she broke her vows the marriage was over. I did not need a court system to tell me it was OK to have sexual relations again.

Up until that moment married women were off the menu, taboo.

I ended up having revenge sex with one of the OM's wives. That had to be one of the most erotic nights of my life.

As I moved on in life I found that when it came to have sex with a single woman, mind movies left me sick unable to perform. But sex with a married woman was fantastic.

I found that married woman were easy simply because their husbands did not pay them much attention. I did not have to pursue them, they came after me.

[Miss Clavel]

Thanks guy, I get it. I never really looked at myself at the prowler. I don't go after married women. I'm not a bad looking guy and am very social.

 

I'm not hear to break families. There was a deeper sense to what they wanted to moved in on it. I was indeed kind of surprised by this.

 

What is stopping me from leaving? Again, it's not too bad right now. Why not be just as selfish as she was and have my own fun?

 

It doesn't need to be with married women. I was just saying they seem to be crawling out of their own relationships to try and get something.

 

Am I disgusted with myself? I don't know. I'm desensitized to some aspects of cheating. For me, I don't feel like I'm even cheating. I carry no remorse or sympathy. I'm guilt free. I would though rather be with somebody who doesn't have the baggage.

 

I do however get how some people who engage in affairs may feel more secure with somebody else in some sort of relationship if they're trying to hide it. Both have something to lose yeah?

 

 

go back to counselling. go all in or have the therapist help you two divide up and split up.

 

that way you won't have to research how to have an affair and you can go and actually have one.

 

i don't think, no, i know, i do not want to be with anyone that not only spends all their waking hours dreaming of having an affair but thinks of me and our marriage as "not that bad".

[Ladyjane14]

While I can certainly understand the impetus of revenge affairs (although I don't believe they resolve anything), what I can't begin to comprehend is how a person who has experienced the betrayal of infidelity, who knows what that feels like... can then go on to assist in bringing that pain to someone else.

 

As an AP, for a few minutes of pleasure or the barest possibility of a future relationship, you've created an enemy where before there was none, someone who will despise you and wish you ill for the rest of your life. And you've done that knowing what it means, what it feels like, firsthand.

 

I don't get it. I really don't.

 

I mean, it's one thing to be really young and just not have the capacity yet for real empathy. And I get the whole "I'm not the one who made the vows" excuse. But the betrayed spouse is a real, live person... whose story has not been heard. How do people rationalize doing that to somebody?.. being a party to it?

[drifter777]

While I can certainly understand the impetus of revenge affairs (although I don't believe they resolve anything), what I can't begin to comprehend is how a person who has experienced the betrayal of infidelity, who knows what that feels like... can then go on to assist in bringing that pain to someone else.

 

As an AP, for a few minutes of pleasure or the barest possibility of a future relationship, you've created an enemy where before there was none, someone who will despise you and wish you ill for the rest of your life. And you've done that knowing what it means, what it feels like, firsthand.

 

I don't get it. I really don't.

 

I mean, it's one thing to be really young and just not have the capacity yet for real empathy. And I get the whole "I'm not the one who made the vows" excuse. But the betrayed spouse is a real, live person... whose story has not been heard. How do people rationalize doing that to somebody?.. being a party to it?

 

I find it hard to comprehend that someone would not understand the reason for a revenge affair.

 

REVENGE!

[bigman1]

I think that she is not questioning the concept of revenge affairs as much as she is questioning the concept of revenge affairs with someone else who is married. In effect, going after someone else's spouse is not revenge.

 

Maybe sleeping with the AP's spouse or sleeping with some unattached person is revenge. Sleeping with a person in a committed relationship who is unconnected to the original relationships is just inconceivable. Making vicitim's out of innocent third parties is crazy.

[Ladyjane14]

I find it hard to comprehend that someone would not understand the reason for a revenge affair.

 

REVENGE!

 

Bigman is right. It's not the revenge affair that makes me curious. I get that. It's the involvement of a third party that didn't deserve to be treated that way by someone who knows how it feels.

 

I have to wonder what the emotional mechanics of that might be. What's the payoff that makes it worth living with the guilt? Or is there just not any guilt at that point?

[ladydesigner]

While I can certainly understand the impetus of revenge affairs (although I don't believe they resolve anything), what I can't begin to comprehend is how a person who has experienced the betrayal of infidelity, who knows what that feels like... can then go on to assist in bringing that pain to someone else.

 

As an AP, for a few minutes of pleasure or the barest possibility of a future relationship, you've created an enemy where before there was none, someone who will despise you and wish you ill for the rest of your life. And you've done that knowing what it means, what it feels like, firsthand.

 

I don't get it. I really don't.

 

I mean, it's one thing to be really young and just not have the capacity yet for real empathy. And I get the whole "I'm not the one who made the vows" excuse. But the betrayed spouse is a real, live person... whose story has not been heard. How do people rationalize doing that to somebody?.. being a party to it?

 

When I discovered my WH's first A... I don't even know what to call it... I caught him groping and grinding on a co-worker of his at MY birthday party and they were 'friends'. Anyways that was enough to set me off. I had sheer anger at him. My very first thought after seeing that with my best friend standing next to me was eff him I'm getting back at him. What is good for the goose must be good for the gander. When I decided to have my RA I did not think of how badly my H would hurt I wanted him to hurt. That is how sick I was.

 

There was a time after my disclosure that I felt such remorse for my WH, but many broken NC's later and a False r I have to admit, I'm not not sure I feel bad about it anymore. This sh*t is so twisted.

[ladydesigner]

Bigman is right. It's not the revenge affair that makes me curious. I get that. It's the involvement of a third party that didn't deserve to be treated that way by someone who knows how it feels.

 

I have to wonder what the emotional mechanics of that might be. What's the payoff that makes it worth living with the guilt? Or is there just not any guilt at that point?

 

Good question, when I was FMOW my xOM had a long-term, long distance gf. I thought about HER the most, more than involving XOM. I wasn't thinking, my actions were very vengeful and I had no empathy for my WH or XOM I guess. I figured XOM knew I was married and knew my WH had cheated. I wasn't thinking at all only acting out. Pretty sad.