Is it true that nice guys always get ignored? [and consolidated nice guy dating]

April 19, 2016

Ok, well fair enough then, if you are like that with everyone then you are just being yourself.

Sounds like simply the girl wasn't that into you. I don't really see her treating you badly. Or did I miss something maybe?

Well perhaps 'badly' was the wrong term to use.

I just think I deserve the respect to be told 'sorry it's just not working for me'. Not because of the way I am but because I'm a human being and it's polite!

I mean seriously, how hard is it to do that?

April 19, 2016

Alright, you're nice. That's great.

But, are you spinning plates?

Until you're exclusive with a girl, you can do whatever the f*ck you want.

Spread your wings. Explore your options. Live a little.

Don't buy into this monogamy BS, mate. Play the field. Just do it nicely

When a girl proves herself, you'll settle down. Hell, I did twice over the last few years.

April 19, 2016

Sounds like simply the girl wasn't that into you. I don't really see her treating you badly.

Agreed, on reflection, she wasn't feeling it, she disappeared.

April 19, 2016

Well perhaps 'badly' was the wrong term to use.

I just think I deserve the respect to be told 'sorry it's just not working for me'. Not because of the way I am but because I'm a human being and it's polite!
I mean seriously, how hard is it to do that?

Most people hate conflict so prefer to just disappear.

Also many women have been on the receiving end of horrible abuse when they have rejected some men, so they learn that simply disappearing is a better course of action.

April 19, 2016

Thanks, I often get told that it's me doing things wrong, but maybe I'm just meeting the same type of girl??

(I'm sorry if this didn't quote correctly, I'm still learning how to use forums)

Yeah, some people like to hear their own advice or how creative they can get in an online post. lol. You go with your gut, also, since you're experience this for yourself...you're more intimate with your situation than we are.

The women that I have had success with were surprisingly into nice, non-exciting guys.

It was completely effortless for me to win them over....though those situations had been few and far between...it really proves some women will like you for who you are.

Yes, some women do do boring/non-exciting men.

But...keep in mind "boring" and "non-exciting" is a completely subjective term.

What's "exciting" to some, may not be "exciting" to others. I get a kick out of people who say, "Women enjoy a man that 'excites' them!'"

The word "excites" is completely subjective, and to give advice on the subjective is quite flawed.

April 19, 2016

Most people hate conflict so prefer to just disappear.
Also many women have been on the receiving end of horrible abuse when they have rejected some men, so they learn that simply disappearing is a better course of action.

That's a good point, never thought of it like that, maybe she just didn't want an argument, not that I would have argued but still

April 19, 2016

Being 'chivalrous' isn't being 'you' either. It's a routine you put on, because it's what you have been conditioned into thinking is the 'right thing to do'. Kind of like a tool.

I'm not saying you should go to any other sort of extreme either.

What I'm saying is that you need to stop trying to behave how you think women want you to behave. Or how they say they want you to behave.

Stop trying to please others, and start pleasing yourself. Be more selfish.

So my advice is 'just be yourself', really

Well said. In my experience, there's two kinds of men who do well with women: the ones who treat everyone as well as they treat women, and the ones who treat women as badly as they treat everyone else.

A lot of so-called nice guys don't get this. They put on a routine of being "nice" to impress women which is obviously different from who they are.

OP, if you want 'nice' to be your identity, you have to live it. Just like how if you want anything to be your hallmark you have to stand out for it.

I can think of three friends/people who are I'd describe as nice guys and none of them "finish last". I like my other friends but I wouldn't call them nice guys.

Those three? Their careers are centered around helping other people, they are outgoing and popular, and they don't have a mean spirited bone in their body. They radiate positivity. One of them is a cancer survivor and is involved in environmental preservation causes. One of them works on a farm and is big into agricultural causes. One of them is a doctor and works with the underprivileged.

Just like a hot guy would be the best looking guy in a room with 20 others, the people I mentioned are clearly the warmest and most kind-hearted in a room of 20 and everyone knows it.

I've said things to this effect on here before but I think part of the reason why people perceive that "nice guys finish last" is that people think they are a lot nicer than they actually are. Whereas with looks, there are visual benchmarks and people have a more realistic picture of where they stand. Most people are NOT nice guys. The vast majority aren't as a matter of fact.

April 19, 2016

I've said things to this effect on here before but I think part of the reason why people perceive that "nice guys finish last" is that people think they are a lot nicer than they actually are. Whereas with looks, there are visual benchmarks and people have a more realistic picture of where they stand. Most people are NOT nice guys. The vast majority aren't, as a matter of fact.

^^^^This^^^^

April 19, 2016

Most people are NOT nice guys. The vast majority aren't as a matter of fact.

Yes, and it's quite sad that this is the situation. Actually, I could say this about society as a whole as it's not restricted to any one gender.

They put on a routine of being "nice" to impress women which is obviously different from who they are.

For some it's a routine, for others there are those being genuine, and even THEN they sometimes aren't looked at as dating prospects.

April 19, 2016

I have a few thoughts on this:

1. Be VERY wary of a woman who says she only seems to date jerks and "why can't she ever meet a nice guy". It's a sign of both a bad picker on her part AND a lack of her taking responsibility. She may be a terrific person deep down inside but there are issues on her end that she needs to work out.

This isn't gender-specific by the way--replace "woman" and the associated female pronouns w "male" and the male pronouns and the above paragraph is still true.

2. I am not surprised she vanished. How was she going to tell you that she "isn't feeling it" after all those gushing things she had said about you. Or that she got back w an ex after she had put him down so much on your date? Anyway, possible reasons for her vanishing include getting back w an ex or even feeling unworthy of a decent relationship (so she jumped ship first).

I realize I am taking a harder tack on this girl than most. The "why can't I ever just meet a nice guy" and her subsequent gushing after the date is coloring my perception.

3. Did you make a move physically? Try to hold her hand? This is only part of it, but I am wondering if you came across as masculine or if you just came across as nice and full of positive energy.

4. If you really want feedback you could always try asking the coworker who set you up. Good for you for not trying to "calling her out" on Facebook. You would have been the one who would have looked dumb if you had....

Edited April 19, 2016 by Imajerk17

April 19, 2016

Just because you are "nice" doesn't entitle you reward (getting the girl). If there is no feeling of attraction, then there is not attraction....has nothing to do with whether you hold a door open for her or don't answer her calls right away.

April 19, 2016

I have a few thoughts on this:

3. Did you make a move physically? Try to hold her hand? This is only part of it, but I am wondering if you came across as masculine or if you just came across as nice and full of positive energy.

4. If you really want feedback you could always try asking the coworker who set you up. Good for you for not trying to "calling her out" on Facebook. You would have been the one who would have looked dumb if you had....

I did greet her and say goodbye with a hug, but I only didn't go further with a handhold or kiss because she told me she's very reserved with that kind of thing until she gets to know someone so I thought it best to respect that.

Her coworker asked how it went on our date and she just said 'yeah it was good thanks'. Very confusing, before she met she was telling everyone at work about me so they might be just as confused as I am.

April 19, 2016

I did greet her and say goodbye with a hug, but I only didn't go further with a handhold or kiss because she told me she's very reserved with that kind of thing until she gets to know someone so I thought it best to respect that.

And do you think all these "bad boys" that she dates, treat her the same? Obviously not, they press for more, and they get more. So what she's saying here is obviously bogus. Her contradictions are showing plainly.

She likely saw your date as nothing more than hanging out with a friend and that is why she didn't want another. She doesn't feel that you're a confident, masculine guy and she is not attracted. But she didn't know how to tell you that, because you're such a nice guy, it would feel like being mean to turn you down. So she did the fade instead.

Her coworker asked how it went on our date and she just said 'yeah it was good thanks'. Very confusing

Not really, that is just shutting down the conversation as quickly as possible without being mean but without showing any interest. If you do something dumb, and a woman tells you "it's fine", do you believe her?

April 19, 2016

There could be more at work for this woman than that. I wouldn't be so quick as to say that because you held a door open for her that this is why she rejected you. After all, you don't know this woman at all, do you?

Here is my experience with "nice guys" vs. "bad boys" ... There are the typical "bad boys" out there which are obvious by appearance or reputation. There are also "nice guys" - this is a broader scope than you may think. People are complicated and you don't know how they feel based on situation or circumstances. I am just wary of people in general now, because there are so many which have proven themselves to come off as one but are really the other and treated me badly. "Nice guys" are not cowardly who break up with you via email / text, scream at me and the world for all that has wronged, or just ghost on someone. A nice guy does that just as a bad boy can/will, and you realize "Oh, he's not a nice guy after all, is he?" I have been with a few of them just as I have been with bad boys. One always did those things (held doors open, was pleasant to be with, didn't drink, etc.) but he showed his true colors to me when he broke up with me via email. Another years later did the same and he was absolutely miserable one day and showed his true colors - angry, bitter, etc. The difference between him and the first was that this was a guy who thought he could buy it from others or prove that he was a good man by providing. Barely a year later, he met and married a trashy girl with two children from two previous marriages who took advantage of him. He supported her, her two children and even paid for the daughter's education only to have her run off, divorce him, marry husband #4 and has since divorced husband #4. Both of them, I would like to point out, were so ashamed of their treatment of me that they never spoke to mutual friends ever again over it. If they were proud of themselves, they would have gone on as if all was hunky dory.

Ever since, I have just accepted a few things that people are not what they seem to be anymore. You don't truly know someone, only after many years do they unfold before you. And there is no black and white about people.

April 19, 2016

Ever since, I have just accepted a few things that people are not what they seem to be anymore. You don't truly know someone, only after many years do they unfold before you. And there is no black and white about people.

I'm so sorry to hear you were treated badly as well, thank you for taking the time to share you experience.

I'm starting not to be as quick to trust someone either, you're right I didn't know her, we were just in the 'getting to know each other' phase.

April 19, 2016

I was seeing this gorgeous girl for a while, she said that every guy she meets is only after one thing and treats her badly, and her colleagues said she often gets treated badly by guys.

While it might not be popular..... Here is my take on this sort of thing, because I have seen it many times.

If a woman DEMANDS to be treated well. Has a level of confidence, self respect / self esteem that does not allow her to accept poor treatment from men - well, then she won't end up with a long string of men who "treat her badly".

WHY is she CHOOSING men who treat her poorly? Why is she ALLOWING herself to be disrespected etc? Well - that is a deeper question.

Again - from my observations? Some women who are 'gorgeous' outstandingly beautiful etc - often get valued for their looks, rather than what is beneath the skin from a young age. They get the "attention" of men, but not the respect of men - again, often starting during their young formative years.

This can really take a toll on self esteem / self worth etc. When you are valued for your looks, and not your depth - it can really mess with someone's confidence.

I have known shockingly beautiful women, who have had really terrible views of themselves, and accepted terrible treatment from men in their lives.

There are also "jerk" guys out there who know exactly how to manipulate this sort of person.

April 19, 2016

You are just going after the wrong kind of women. Stay away from the types who always complain about how there are no good men. I will catch some flack for saying this but some of them enjoy complaining about how awful men are and how there are no good men more than they want to find a good man.

April 19, 2016

Like I mentioned earlier in the thread...

Women instinctively want someone who is confident, assertive, and knows what he wants.

I didn't say anywhere that you need to be a jerk or bad boy.. You could be funny and a very nice guy, as long as you exhibit the 3 qualities I mentioned above.

If you look at any website, article, or woman's magazine it always comes down to having at the very least those 3 qualities as the top 10 attractions for women.

April 19, 2016

I did greet her and say goodbye with a hug, but I only didn't go further with a handhold or kiss because she told me she's very reserved with that kind of thing until she gets to know someone so I thought it best to respect that.

Her coworker asked how it went on our date and she just said 'yeah it was good thanks'. Very confusing, before she met she was telling everyone at work about me so they might be just as confused as I am.

Do you work with her? Or know her from before the date?

Her saying she is so "reserved" sounds like she wasn't really into the date at all.

April 20, 2016

OP - I suggest you put that woman out of your mind and move on with your life. You and her were a bad match, simple as that. There is an involuntary element to attraction, and she may just be subconsciously drawn to guys that treat her poorly, despite her words to the contrary.

Being 'chivalrous' isn't being 'you' either. It's a routine you put on, because it's what you have been conditioned into thinking is the 'right thing to do'. Kind of like a tool.

I'm not saying you should go to any other sort of extreme either.

What I'm saying is that you need to stop trying to behave how you think women want you to behave. Or how they say they want you to behave.

Stop trying to please others, and start pleasing yourself. Be more selfish.

So my advice is 'just be yourself', really

Agreed. Many people can intuitively tell when someone's not being their natural self, and/or being a people-pleaser. That person usually comes across as a bit forced or a bit of a try-hard, and that person does not have enough self-respect.

If being nice, chivalrous or gentlemanly comes naturally to a person (i.e. it's ingrained and possibly stems from that person's childhood upbringing and/or environment), then great. If not, then trying to be those things may be unfavorable for that person while out on a date or during some other social situation. True gentlemen do gentlemanly things without a second thought. Similarly with nice people. It's part of who they are.

Well-rounded people tend to have some sort of balance between selfishness and selflessness.

April 20, 2016

Personally, I feel there needs to be a balance. I have no interest in a "bad boy" and GENUINELY want the good, nice guys. But on the flip side, I don't want the boring guy. There needs to be fun and adventure. You need to break the rules sometimes. We want the sweet guy with the good heart, but who will surprise us. Goody-goodies are no fun, just like raging *******s are no fun, you know?

April 20, 2016

She's now back to posting things on Facebook about not being able to find a nice guy who treats her right...

You're not reading between the lines, let me elaborate....

I can't find a nice guy who treats me right and whom I am also attracted to...

It's sucks but sometimes we are just not someone's cup of tea.

April 20, 2016

You're not reading between the lines, let me elaborate....

I can't find a nice guy who treats me right and whom I am also attracted to...

It's sucks but sometimes we are just not someone's cup of tea.

Wise Wisdom.

April 20, 2016

Like I mentioned earlier in the thread...
Women instinctively want someone who is confident, assertive, and knows what he wants.

I didn't say anywhere that you need to be a jerk or bad boy.. You could be funny and a very nice guy, as long as you exhibit the 3 qualities I mentioned above.

If you look at any website, article, or woman's magazine it always comes down to having at the very least those 3 qualities as the top 10 attractions for women.

I also believe a sense of humour is always in the top 10. I don't know if this is right, but it certainly isn't left.

April 20, 2016

I could be one of those guys that messes with girl's heads but it's so unnatural to me and I wouldn't be being myself. So all I can be is a gentleman, why do girls say they want prince charming then totally pie him off when they find him??

This has happened to me multiple times, girls complain about being treated badly by men but you know what? They can be just as bad.

Repeat after me.

Dating is not a math problem.

X + Y + Z does not always equal A

You are a great guy. Glad to hear.

You treated her kindly on the date. Awesome.

Here's the thing. She doesn't owe you a relationship, just because you're nice to her.

This is the classic nice guy problem. They almost see being "nice" as some kind of currency they can exchange for a girlfriend.

Does rejection suck? Of course. But man, be nice because it's who you are. Not because you think it'll net you some advantage with a girl you want to bed.

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Is it true that nice guys always get ignored? [and consolidated nice guy dating]

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