Why Lie?

[Lunay]

I am having a really hard time understanding how one can keep lying to someone when they know the person they are lying to knows they are lying?

 

For example: I am going through a breakup and started NC today after being lied to for a week, and then again today - it was so blatant that I found it a huge insult to my intelligence.

He IS a liar. No doubt about that. He has lied time and time again and I am in no way surprised BY the lying, its his will to KEEP lying that I just can't grasp.

I asked him why he only says good morning to me, yet doesn't say good night and doesn't talk to me during the evening at all.

His response was that "its complicated" and then he made up a story that he had been hanging out with his cousins girlfriend and smoking weed.

He doesn't smoke weed. Never has. This person probably doesn't even exist. He swears up and down this is the truth, but I know it isn't. I won't be gaslighted.

My guess is that he has been hanging out with his ex, because there is no one else he would have to hide me from. Or it could be a completely different woman, but I don't think so.

I told him that unless he can tell me the truth, do not contact me. He then proceeded to ask me if I could pick something up for him at his friends place, and he would give me the money later. Apparently he doesn't take me seriously. I ignored.

 

I am not asking for advice here on if I should end this. I AM ending it. Today showed me exactly what I needed .. once again *eye roll*

I just want to know if anyone can explain to me the psychology of this? I already know he's lying, he knows he is lying. He knows I think he is lying....He obviously doesn't care about the relationship or me at all, so what gives? Why not just tell the truth?

[AlexDream]

He knows you think he is lying. 'Think' isn't equal to 'sure'.

Edited April 7, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redact full quote of post

[carhill]

If he enjoys messing with people, gets off on it, well whatever that entails, that's his mission. Some people love that stuff, getting the one up on others or getting an emotional rise out of them.

 

You say you know he's lying, he knows you know and does it anyway. Heh, that kinda pisses you off, right? He wins

[Lunay]

If he enjoys messing with people, gets off on it, well whatever that entails, that's his mission. Some people love that stuff, getting the one up on others or getting an emotional rise out of them.

 

You say you know he's lying, he knows you know and does it anyway. Heh, that kinda pisses you off, right? He wins

 

Sure, but it also makes me want nothing to do with him.

He's a 37 year old man. You would think it's time to grow up?

[carhill]

Grown ups do it all the time. Watch any debate like the current political ones. Lying abounds, as do personal insults. Why? Because it works.

 

That you don't want anything to do with him matters not to him. Yet he's still on your mind, sufficiently enough to post this thread. Interesting, isn't it?

[BC1980]

Sure, but it also makes me want nothing to do with him.

He's a 37 year old man. You would think it's time to grow up?

 

I don't think it has anything to do with growing up. If anything, I think people get more skilled at deceit and are set in their ways the older they get. I guess the answer to your question: why does he lie? Because he can.We all lie at some point because we think we can get away with it and because it benefits us in some way. At this point, he probably feels that he owes you nothing. I don't think it's much deeper than that.

[Lunay]

Okay sorry - Correction, I know he is lying. He knows how I feel.

 

I kind of feel like he is trying to keep me in the background in case whatever he has up his sleeve doesn't pan out. Possible?

I don't want this man any longer. He is toxic to my life and brings me nothing but grief... and yes, he is on my mind because even after 5 years it blows my mind that he can treat me this way.

I blame myself because I've continued to take him back after every sob story. It makes me sick to my stomach.

Is it fair to say he is a sh*tty person?

[Satu]

Okay sorry - Correction, I know he is lying. He knows how I feel.

 

I kind of feel like he is trying to keep me in the background in case whatever he has up his sleeve doesn't pan out. Possible?

I don't want this man any longer. He is toxic to my life and brings me nothing but grief... and yes, he is on my mind because even after 5 years it blows my mind that he can treat me this way.

I blame myself because I've continued to take him back after every sob story. It makes me sick to my stomach.

Is it fair to say he is a sh*tty person?

 

Wash your hands and be done with him, if thats what you feel.

 

What you feel is what matters.

[BC1980]

Okay sorry - Correction, I know he is lying. He knows how I feel.

 

I kind of feel like he is trying to keep me in the background in case whatever he has up his sleeve doesn't pan out. Possible?

I don't want this man any longer. He is toxic to my life and brings me nothing but grief... and yes, he is on my mind because even after 5 years it blows my mind that he can treat me this way.

I blame myself because I've continued to take him back after every sob story. It makes me sick to my stomach.

Is it fair to say he is a sh*tty person?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he is trying to keep you in the background in case things don't work out with whatever he is currently doing. After 5 years, you are familiar to him, and, if you've set up a dynamic where you always take him back, he doesn't respect you or take you seriously. So you are right in that assumption. He probably does not take you seriously at this point.

 

If this has been a back and forth relationship, I would have to question his level of investment at any point in time. Maybe you are shocked because you made him out to be something different in your mind. Is he a sh*tty person? He sounds more like an opportunist who takes advantage of the fact that you have always taken him back. He probably thinks you have low standards for that reason and wants you around for sex or if he wants to get back together.

[Lunay]

I wouldn't be surprised if he is trying to keep you in the background in case things don't work out with whatever he is currently doing. After 5 years, you are familiar to him, and, if you've set up a dynamic where you always take him back, he doesn't respect you or take you seriously. So you are right in that assumption. He probably does not take you seriously at this point.

 

If this has been a back and forth relationship, I would have to question his level of investment at any point in time. Maybe you are shocked because you made him out to be something different in your mind. Is he a sh*tty person? He sounds more like an opportunist who takes advantage of the fact that you have always taken him back. He probably thinks you have low standards for that reason and wants you around for sex or if he wants to get back together.

 

I completely agree with this. We do own a house and vehicles together, my daughter thinks of him as her Dad. I left him last summer and stayed away for 5 months until he begged and pleaded for his family back, stupid me.

[Satu]

Every time you take him back you prove to him he can do whatever he likes without any consequences.

 

You need to change your behaviour to break out of that loop, because you have no way of changing his.

[dreamingoftigers]

I don't think it has anything to do with growing up. If anything, I think people get more skilled at deceit and are set in their ways the older they get. I guess the answer to your question: why does he lie? Because he can.We all lie at some point because we think we can get away with it and because it benefits us in some way. At this point, he probably feels that he owes you nothing. I don't think it's much deeper than that.

 

I learned awhile ago that pathological lying is a coping skill to avoid conflict.

 

I should say "avoid conflict." Because I tend to find conflict-avoidance actually breeds conflict.

 

My father is a pathological liar. If cornered, he comes up with another lie. If that's disproven, he either continues to deny deny deny OR he makes himself the victim to your "heartless attacks" because "you don't trust him" or have these "ridiculous expectations" etc etc etc. OR he rages and even gets violent. Frankly, he's nucking futs.

 

BUT at the root of this is someone who cannot be honest with themselves that actions have consequences. In his case, his actions "don't matter" but YOUR REACTION is where the fault lies.

 

By deceiving, he doesn't have to face any responsibility or self-examination. He doesn't have to say to himself "okay, I shouldn't have done that, I should apologize, learn from it, grow whatever." Instead, it's a constant defense of his "goodness" against your "trying to trap him." Or whatever character fault he projects on you to blind and device you.

 

Often pathological liar are extremely emotionally stunted. The FACTS don't matter, how your reaction makes them feel does. So if they stole your car, you should still think good trusting thoughts about them. If not, it's because YOU are the problem because you are making them feel bad about being them.

 

Often they aren't able to separate their behaviours from the core of themselves either. What I mean by this is, their image of being "a good person" must remain intact regardless of anything else.

 

In my father's case I came to know that he shoplifted as a teen. That is hardly enough information to forever condemn someone as a "bad person." Lots of teens do have impulsive moments like that. (I didn't. Just for the record, but my niece did which shocked me at the time but she's probably one of the most well-adjusted people I know). But my father will forever deny that it EVER happened. Like a deep dark secret in a well. He denies ever abusing as well etc. instead of just saying "yeah I did that. It was a dumb thing to do and I didn't ever do it again." Because it is too much of a hit to admit to EVER being less than the image you want to be as a pathological liar.

 

In high school I also had a pathological liar friend. When I came to realize it, it was just too much. The only thing I think of it now is that it is likely a learned coping skill.

 

My father taught me to lie. But as I got older and met people like my high-school friend I thought she looked really idiotic lying all of the time about her greatness and others failings etc. I couldn't respect it. I also realized that she was academically smart and figured she was "smarter than everyone else" so that "made her a good liar." But the two are actually different skill sets.

 

So that being the case, I actively tried to trim down on my lying because I KNEW it was something I did at the time, and that probably a lot of older, more experienced people could see right through it anyhow. It embarrassed me to the core to think that.

 

When in my 20s, I received a diagnosis of BPD and part of my recovery was also realizing that my internal emotional state was not the objective truth. So when I am upset I actually have to 1. Catch the fact that I am upset. 2. Try to figure out what is triggering the upset and then 3. Figure out whether it's some internal insecurity or whether lines are actually being crossed. Going through that drill is now automatic and helps me to see, automatically, "this person ISN'T attacking me. This just reminds me of X. Or this person may have a point, and doesn't deliver what they are trying to tell me in a respectful way, or very well."

 

I am not claiming to be 110% honest. Sometimes it is a challenge for me to figure out whether being private or not revealing something is a "lie of omission." Other times I can't remember an exact quote, so I fill in the story as I can recall it, even though I know it isn't verbatim etc. But I notice life is much better without reaching towards some total bullshyte every time I want to have a conversation with someone. I don't have to be "sparkly." I know I'm not a perfect person.

 

I don't know if that answers anything.

 

But as for this guy you are ending things with, it might be easier on his ego to lose a relationship and rewrite you as "crazy" or "controlling" in his mind than to do any self-reflection or admission to you of anything. Overall, that's a terrible trait in a partner anyway so you are making the right choice.

 

Best of luck.

[Tayla]

I often subscribe to the mentality of " Its your lie, tell it however you want!", I just don't have to listen to it

 

Which goes hand in hand with the "Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining"

 

tell the fibber to take up creative writing..at least then they take a negative and do little harm to human souls...

 

Cleanse your heart of this toxic person, your future self will thank you.

[dreamingoftigers]

I completely agree with this. We do own a house and vehicles together, my daughter thinks of him as her Dad. I left him last summer and stayed away for 5 months until he begged and pleaded for his family back, stupid me.

 

Now now.

 

Running over your own character isn't a great replacement for having someone else do it.

 

I am hoping you wouldn't tolerate anyone else on this forum calling you stupid, so be nice to yourself. You're stuck with you and it's much easier to be your best friend than your own worst enemy.

 

If your best friend just realized she was in the same type of relationship pattern you've just realized, you probably wouldn't call her stupid. Chances are, you'd be relieved that she finally figured it out and wants to change it. Maybe you'd buy her some ice cream and be supportive etc.

 

So first things first, what are you going to do to show yourself love and respect?

 

I can suggest: get away from liar-pants and don't be too hard on yourself for not doing it sooner. You're here now. My Mom has been with her liar-pants for 40 years. That's EIGHT TIMES the liar-pants exposure yoivr received. Imagine the SPF on that! (But honestly, my Mom is pretty liar-pants herself, I've only really put that together over the last few years. I'm not "surprised" per se, I just kind of smack my head because so much of it isn't necessary at all).

 

Be nice to you. Send his fiery butt on its way. Liars don't become more invested and less dishonest over time because "they love you." This is who they are unless they do some serious self-examination, which may never happen. It isn't about something deficient in you, it's just how they handle situations and relationships in their lives. Best send them on their way and try to find someone who's values more closely align with yours.

 

An extremely poor coping skill I have is binge-eating. I believe it's my "great battle" in life would be to finally get rid of that. But it will be quite a journey I think. And I've gone back and forth about it for years. If I got together with an Olympian, (yeah right) he might influence me for awhile to take better care of my health and body. But I know that in my heart I will probably hit the DQ drive-thru for a blizzard every now and then, more often than I should. I have a dysfunctional relationship with food. (I shouldn't even be having dairy, ha!). My "Olympian-perfect boyfriend" could be the best influence in the world, but if I don't get to the root of this issue, he can't possibly "save me from myself" by "loving it out of me." It's my crappy coping skill and my body, not his responsibility.

[BC1980]

I completely agree with this. We do own a house and vehicles together, my daughter thinks of him as her Dad. I left him last summer and stayed away for 5 months until he begged and pleaded for his family back, stupid me.

 

It's really hard to see all of this when you are in it and you love a person. You just can't be expected to be objective. We can all see it because we have no emotional involvement with him. My last ex, he told me he was having second thoughts the day he was supposed to put down the deposit for the ceremony venue. I was so heartbroken. I had been so excited for the previous several months, and I had no clue how he felt. He had initiated everything. But instead of leaving him and allowing him to be accountable for his actions up until that point, I tried to do anything I could to allay his second thoughts. Over the next year, I actually moved in with this clown and tried to morph into whatever I thought he would deem acceptable to marry. It's so awful and embarrassing when I think back on it, and I never really realized what I was doing at the time. But when you love someone, you don't think objectively. You make excuses, and you see what you want to see.

 

You deserve a lot better than this guy. I can promise you that. Be kind to yourself, and take it as a lesson learned.