Hello Darkness My Old Friend.

April 7, 2016

Now I don't know if yesterday was the mother of all triggers, but I haven't felt this kind of knot in my chest in years.

I'll try to keep it brief. D-Day was back in 2009. Reconciliation has been going well, with the usual landmines and difficulties. But on the whole, way more good days than bad days, and pretty effective communication. Until Yesterday.

So we were going over Summer plans, and I brought up the 4th of July. Friend of mine has a gorgeous house on the lake, and I suggested we head up there with our boat, and my group of friends who is planning to use the house.

Backstory. I'm 45, and pretty close to what you might call an elite athlete. I race motocross, mt bikes, wakeboard competitively, rock climb, etc etc...As such, many ( ok...practically ALL ) of my friends are in their late 20's to mid 30's athletes. These are the people who I can hang with athletically, so they've become the people I socialize with most often. I do have a few buddies my own age, and I socialize with them too, but eh...how do I say it...sometimes I just need to go a little faster and my younger friends are doing just that.

This has been an issue a few times, but before you judge, these are also young people who have their act together. They own businesses, are either married or engaged, and are into healthy lifestyles ( for the most part ) and having fun outside. These aren't wild, drug abusing, kids, and I wouldn't like them if they were. They are me, 10-15 years ago.

Anyway, when I mentioned hanging at the lake for the 4th, my wife says " I don't want to do that." So I ask why not? " Because I don't want to get drunk all week with a bunch of rowdy naked kids."

OK whoa... right? She knows this crowd well. We have them over for dinner parties and Friendsgiving every year and never once has anyone gotten naked or too rowdy.

Then I asked if she would mind if I just went that weekend, because A: I want to. and B: Logistically it would be helpful ( leaving the boat there, picking it up later on planned trip to different lake etc, not having to haul it 4 hours back home...)

And this is where the story starts. ( sorry, that wasn't brief at all )

She says " I don't think going to the lake is appropriate for a married person. Married people don't go out and party on lakes, drinking and blasting music. It's not right, it's not cool with me, and I don't think you should even want to be doing stuff like that."

Boom. Hi Ho Trigger, away! To me, this was akin to some raging alcoholic lecturing someone on how much they should drink! Seriously, if I rolled my eyes any harder, I'd have been looking out of my own butt hole!

I thought of a million things to say. I wanted to tell her SHE doesn't get to lecture ME on what appropriate marital behavior is. I wanted to tell her MY friends are nice, honest people with integrity who wouldn't cover for me like her stupid friend Corie who only wanted to hear the juicy details of her affair. I wanted to tell her that there are 10,000 people at Havasu, and a good number of them, including many of my friends, are married people just having a blast on the water without the black cloud of infidelity dampering their good time. And most of all, I wanted to tell her that I'm not the one who has proven they can't be trusted to run off leash.

But I didn't say any of that. Because none of it would have been helpful. Instead, I just let this knot build in my chest, and have been walking around with it ever since.

I'll find a way to get it all off my chest, as I always do. But I figured I'd share the story here for those of you who are 5-7 years down the line like me.

Edited April 10, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language~T

April 7, 2016

SHE doesn't get to lecture ME on what appropriate marital behavior is.

I see an issue right here. Do you get a free pass from her voicing her opinion for the rest of your life?

We party on a lake. But we'd never think of going without each other. Maybe it's because we both cheated and there is this boundary. But even if not, partying without the spouse, and justifying it because of what the WS did, I hope that is not the entire reason you're angry. Is it?

April 7, 2016

My best advice to you would be to try and talk to your spouse about how you feel. I don't mean that you should lash out at her or start accusing her of anything, just that explain to her why it hurts you to hear her say things like that.

she might not have even thought of it the way you do, and if you can talk about it, you'll both be able to get some things of your minds. after all, you can only swallow so much down before it poisons you. it will also give her a chance to express the reasons she feels as she does.

Most experts say that communication is a huge part of a successful marriage, and surely this would include being able to talk about something like this. When one spouse feels like they can't talk about something, that's' not good.

April 7, 2016

Betrayed, I think there's much more to what she is saying.

What's underneath all that could be anything, but it's certainly under there festering.

I completely understand that her unyielding response to your proposals might feel dismissive and hurtful, but I do think you need to talk with her and find out why she feels so adamant that it isn't right.

Do you think there's a possibility that she's concerned that you'll do to her what she did to you? Is she perhaps herself uncomfortable being around the younger ones? Is she concerned that if you go alone it might be asking for trouble?

I get that it's a good few years down the line, but as many here will attest, there really is no end to triggers, for either BS or WS, even if occasional.

Try to get her to sit down with you and a glass of something therapeutically relaxing to really get to the bottom of what that's all about?

Just my thoughts....

April 7, 2016

I have to agree with wmac. I would hope that if I upset my BH, he would tell me so we could work through it together. I love him and want to support him in every way...but sometimes he has to tell me so I can give him what he needs. I can't read minds.

April 7, 2016

a glass of something therapeutically relaxing

I love this phrase!

April 7, 2016

I wanted to tell her SHE doesn't get to lecture ME on what appropriate marital behavior is.

Actually, since she's your wife, yes she does.

If everything she's going to do for the rest of your marriage is going to be framed in the context of the affair, that doesn't sound like real reconciliation or recovery. And that's said more out of concern for your emotional health than any obligation you owe her. Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself...

Mr. Lucky

April 7, 2016

I see an issue right here. Do you get a free pass from her voicing her opinion for the rest of your life?

Absolutely not. This is why I didn't SAY it, I just thought it briefly in that moment. Of course she gets to have an opinion about it, and I can't hold her past against her forever. I actually value her opinion, and it if means she now has a better understanding of boundaries, then GREAT! I don't expect to get away with anything out of line, just because she screwed up years ago, but at the same token, I don't deserve to have my leash tightened over her poor choices either.

We party on a lake. But we'd never think of going without each other. Maybe it's because we both cheated and there is this boundary. But even if not, partying without the spouse, and justifying it because of what the WS did, I hope that is not the entire reason you're angry. Is it?

I guess my view of this is that she and I have partied separately on many many many occasions. She took advantage of that, not me. She still goes on girls weekends away and I don't prevent them because everyone needs to get away with their friends in my opinion. I just want the same level of respect and trust in kind. Lake, River, Sand Dunes, Forest, Bars....all the same to me.

What's underneath all that could be anything, but it's certainly under there festering.

Yes. Actually has me wondering if it isn't her guilty conscious speaking actually. During her affairs, she was out-of-the-ordinary jealous and conscious of my whereabouts. This is not sitting well, actually.

I have to agree with wmac. I would hope that if I upset my BH, he would tell me so we could work through it together.

Agree with you both here. I sent her an email already listing out my thoughts, including both my initial reactions, as well as how I feel now, a day later. We'll see how it goes.

I always communicate with her about how I'm feeling, whether she likes it or not, lol.

April 7, 2016

If everything she's going to do for the rest of your marriage is going to be framed in the context of the affair, that doesn't sound like real reconciliation or recovery.
Mr. Lucky

Thanks, and you are right. I certainly don't hang it over her head in any way that I can avoid. At first it was hard. She's leave a mess in the kitchen, and I'd use that as proof that she is selfish....like during her affair. That sort of thing.

Those days are long over.

This issue, to me, is about trust, and appropriate behavior however, and I think her affair(s) are not only relevant enough to bring up, ( because they dramatically impact my perception here ) but to try to have this conversation without bringing them up would be disingenuous.

Forgiveness is a gift, for sure. But it's gotta come up sometime, and this seems like a pretty appropriate time. I just needed to cool off so it also comes up in an appropriate way.

April 7, 2016

If this were a scenario where you suggested it as something to do without her, it would be different. I see this as being about two separate issues. One is whether it's appropriate for married people to do these kinds of things without their spouse. The other is your wife not being supportive of something that would make you happy.

Since my husband met the OW when he went away for the weekend with his group of younger friends, I am all hellz to the no on this one. But then I try to flip it around, since in this scenario you are the BH, and figure out if I still feel the same way. And I think I still do. I agree with your wife. I'm never going to be OK with my husband going on a mixed-gendered vacation, drinking with young, single people, ever again. Nope. It's ridiculous. He's a grown man with a family. And like your wife says, I wouldn't want to myself. Sure, these can be couple friends, as they are.

Now, the issue here is really that your wife pooh-poohed the idea of something would make you happy. You are a guy with these interests, these friends. She needs to accept that and be encouraging of you. She has no right to expect you to change your interests. So I would say, hey honey, it's really not fair just to nix a getaway that I would enjoy because you think it would be dumb. How about we go to that quilting convention you wanted to attend and then you come to the boating weekend, and we call it even?

April 7, 2016

Originally Posted by Cloudcuckoo
What's underneath all that could be anything, but it's certainly under there festering.

Yes. Actually has me wondering if it isn't her guilty conscious speaking actually. During her affairs, she was out-of-the-ordinary jealous and conscious of my whereabouts. This is not sitting well, actually.

Just wondering aloud;

Rather than a sinister reason, perhaps your wife doesn't feel as comfortable with your friends as you do, but doesn't want to come out and say it, since as you say, they are some of your closest friends. A couple hours for a dinner party is one thing but a weekend at the lake is quite a bit more.

Also, you clearly associate with a very active crowd and one way or another, it is going to be a weekend of high activity. Does your wife fit in well, in that sort of environment?

April 7, 2016

Seriously, if I rolled my eyes any harder, I'd have been looking out of my own butt hole!

Seriously can I just like this a thousand times!

Do you think there's a possibility that she's concerned that you'll do to her what she did to you?

I think it is this^^^^^

April 7, 2016

I see several thoughts.

1. She is, for the sake of this discussion, firmly in R with you. As a result, she gets to voice her opinion on to say this, just as if she had never cheated. It is an appropriate expression of boundaries and voicing of where hers happens to be. Notice, I point out that she gets to voice this even though she had an affair.

2. You are rug sweeping and have been for a while. Period. Now, when she voices a reasonable concern, you flash back to how dare she tell me because she's a cheater. You gotta deal with that issue. Just because you're 5-7 years down does not mean much.

3. Even if you have not been rug sweeping on everything, you are entitled to feel the way that you feel. Still, you are not entitled to keep it to yourself and back door it in or slide it in somehow. That is plain dishonest to you and to her. To not tell her exactly how you feel and how it made you feel to hear her say it and why you felt that way is simply...well, here we go...rug sweeping. Certainly not rug sweeping the affair, but rug sweeping the fall out, your feelings, unresolved issues.

Bottom line: Tell her directly. Tell her how you felt, why, and the whole ugly beautiful truth and then deal with it together. If you want to ride the R train, and I'm no fan of it, then you gotta pay full fare which means openly with all issues affair related.

April 7, 2016

I've followed your story for a while and I think both you and your wife seem to have put in the hard work it takes to save your marriage. From what you've written, I've never seen any kind of rug sweeping or denial. If anything, I think for a BS, you've held her to a higher standard than most. You asked the hard questions and made her answer. I can totally respect that. You are MUCH better at this than I will ever be.

However, from the outside looking in, on this particular post, I think you are looking for relevance somewhere it doesn't exist. Triggering is a low-level, biological response that evolution gave you to keep from getting eaten by a bear. You seem to be kind of an adrenaline junky, so I'm sure you understand the flight or fight response well. Keep in mind that just because the alarm goes off, it doesn't mean there's a fire. I even read a study recently where they injected subjects with adrenaline and they immeadiately started looking for something relevant to worry about or fear. It's a very primal part of your brain and you can't just turn it off nor would you want to.

People are moody and the difference between your wife making these statements and totally being down to go could just be the moment. Sometimes people are nice and fun, sometimes were moody and bitchy. Sometimes my friend's are peace activists and sometimes they're screaming "bomb the hell out of them!" We are a complicated, mean, nice, fickle, you name it set of creatures. It makes sense once you research our neurochemistry and realize something as simple as cheese can change your mood, effectively changing who you are as a person in that moment.

As to what your wife said, well, I do think it represents that she feels an imbalance in power, but hey, she did that and that's on her. She was actually assuming your role and trying it in for size if you think about it. Its kind of selfish on her part, but people are weird and moody. I probably wouldn't think too hard about it.

So what's it going to take for you to calm down? For me, I prefer Xanax. Maybe for you, it's rock climbing. That's my advice - quit look for relevance in this situation and figure out what it is going to take for you to let this go because you don't want to regress. You've come too far to start letting this crap bother you again. Figure out what's it's going to take to calm yourself down and get there. Let this situation go and move on. This is simply not a fight worth fighting.

Edited April 7, 2016 by HereNorThere

April 7, 2016

I see several thoughts.

1. She is, for the sake of this discussion, firmly in R with you. As a result, she gets to voice her opinion on to say this, just as if she had never cheated. It is an appropriate expression of boundaries and voicing of where hers happens to be. Notice, I point out that she gets to voice this even though she had an affair.

2. You are rug sweeping and have been for a while. Period. Now, when she voices a reasonable concern, you flash back to how dare she tell me because she's a cheater. You gotta deal with that issue. Just because you're 5-7 years down does not mean much.

3. Even if you have not been rug sweeping on everything, you are entitled to feel the way that you feel. Still, you are not entitled to keep it to yourself and back door it in or slide it in somehow. That is plain dishonest to you and to her. To not tell her exactly how you feel and how it made you feel to hear her say it and why you felt that way is simply...well, here we go...rug sweeping. Certainly not rug sweeping the affair, but rug sweeping the fall out, your feelings, unresolved issues.

Bottom line: Tell her directly. Tell her how you felt, why, and the whole ugly beautiful truth and then deal with it together. If you want to ride the R train, and I'm no fan of it, then you gotta pay full fare which means openly with all issues affair related.

Totally see where you are coming from. And as I re-read my post I see that I took for granted something that those here who know my story already know.

I ALWAYS communicate. Every so often something like this will happen, and I never let it fester for long. What I HAVE learned to do, however, is hold my tongue, as it can be VERY quick, and very sharp at times, and wait until I've collected my thoughts a bit more.

We've also gotten into the habit of emailing some of this stuff. Never having the entire conversation via email, but with one of us listing out our concerns or thoughts, in order to discuss them in person as soon as practical. This eliminates surprises, and gives the other an opportunity to "catch up" and go through their thoughts completely without feeling put on the spot or rushed.

My email started off with the following, followed by 4 distinct bullet points that I need to discuss.

I began:

"Well yesterday's conversation about Havasu caused a pretty big trigger, and I can't deny it. I still feel a knot in my chest over it, and I haven't felt one of those in a year or more.

( Insert a little blah blah blah here )

Anyway, rather than get in an argument over facts and figures, I just said fine and left the conversation. Bottom line is, if you aren't comfortable with me going then you aren't comfortable with me going, and I can accept that, and compromise, and not go to that particular event.

But these are the things I'd like to discuss.

(insert bullet points here )

April 7, 2016

Now I don't know if yesterday was the mother of all triggers, but I haven't felt this kind of knot in my chest in years.

I'll try to keep it brief. D-Day was back in 2009. Reconciliation has been going well, with the usual landmines and difficulties. But on the whole, way more good days than bad days, and pretty effective communication. Until Yesterday.

So we were going over Summer plans, and I brought up the 4th of July. Friend of mine has a gorgeous house on the lake, and I suggested we head up there with our boat, and my group of friends who is planning to use the house.

Backstory. I'm 45, and pretty close to what you might call an elite athlete. I race motocross, mt bikes, wakeboard competitively, rock climb, etc etc...As such, many ( ok...practically ALL ) of my friends are in their late 20's to mid 30's athletes. These are the people who I can hang with athletically, so they've become the people I socialize with most often. I do have a few buddies my own age, and I socialize with them too, but eh...how do I say it...sometimes I just need to go a little faster and my younger friends are doing just that.

This has been an issue a few times, but before you judge, these are also young people who have their act together. They own businesses, are either married or engaged, and are into healthy lifestyles ( for the most part ) and having fun outside. These aren't wild, drug abusing, kids, and I wouldn't like them if they were. They are me, 10-15 years ago.

Anyway, when I mentioned hanging at the lake for the 4th, my wife says " I don't want to do that." So I ask why not? " Because I don't want to get drunk all week with a bunch of rowdy naked kids."

OK whoa... right? She knows this crowd well. We have them over for dinner parties and Friendsgiving every year and never once has anyone gotten naked or too rowdy.

Then I asked if she would mind if I just went that weekend, because A: I want to. and B: Logistically it would be helpful ( leaving the boat there, picking it up later on planned trip to different lake etc, not having to haul it 4 hours back home...)

And this is where the story starts. ( sorry, that wasn't brief at all )

She says " I don't think going to the lake is appropriate for a married person. Married people don't go out and party on lakes, drinking and blasting music. It's not right, it's not cool with me, and I don't think you should even want to be doing stuff like that."

Boom. Hi Ho Trigger, away! To me, this was akin to some raging alcoholic lecturing someone on how much they should drink! Seriously, if I rolled my eyes any harder, I'd have been looking out of my own butt hole!

I thought of a million things to say. I wanted to tell her SHE doesn't get to lecture ME on what appropriate marital behavior is. I wanted to tell her MY friends are nice, honest people with integrity who wouldn't cover for me like her stupid friend Corie who only wanted to hear the juicy details of her affair. I wanted to tell her that there are 10,000 people at Havasu, and a good number of them, including many of my friends, are married people just having a blast on the water without the black cloud of infidelity dampering their good time. And most of all, I wanted to tell her that I'm not the one who has proven they can't be trusted to run off leash.

But I didn't say any of that. Because none of it would have been helpful. Instead, I just let this knot build in my chest, and have been walking around with it ever since.

I'll find a way to get it all off my chest, as I always do. But I figured I'd share the story here for those of you who are 5-7 years down the line like me.

If it is fair for you it is fair for her....and vice versa.

It sounds to me like she has taken responsibility and has placed boundaries that are appropriate....and if she feels that kind of behavior is inappropriate for her...she certainly can feel it is inappropriate for you.

I cannot help but believe that it was not a trigger in your chest....but anger.

Her statement reminded you of what she had done....but it made you angry that she dare "reprimand" you for what she now deems as inappropriate behavior....after all...SHE is the one who cheated.

And honestly....she is exactly where she should be. You have worked all these years for her to be responsible for her actions....to place strict boundaries appropriate for a married woman....but now that she seems to be demanding the same from you and expressing what you have hoped she would understand and put into place in her life...you feel how dare she tell me what is wrong or right.

You two certainly have to discuss this...and you might be to a place of great importance in your reconciliation...another hurdle crossed.

Instead of looking at this negatively...please look at it as a growth spurt..because this really is a big deal for a cheater. It is an enlightenment....she has reached a really important place of understanding. and she has every right to be afraid or to feel uncomfortable with behavior that could be threatening to your relationship.

Instead of being anger with her...take her in your arms and tell her that you understand how far she has come in her thinking...and her boundaries....and that you appreciate her growth.

I know it is very hard to not lash out at her and remind her that it was her that started this whole damn process .....but she already knows it.....and she won't ever forget.

Edited April 10, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language~T

April 7, 2016

Forgiveness is a gift, for sure. But it's gotta come up sometime, and this seems like a pretty appropriate time. I just needed to cool off so it also comes up in an appropriate way.

Understood. But I think that, as a BS, when you choose to stay in the marriage, you accept two things -

- there will always be times when those thoughts, feelings and triggers occur.

- it may not be in the interest of your long-term goals to act on or even express them.

Easier said than done...

Mr. Lucky

April 7, 2016

Now I don't know if yesterday was the mother of all triggers, but I haven't felt this kind of knot in my chest in years.

I'll try to keep it brief. D-Day was back in 2009. Reconciliation has been going well, with the usual landmines and difficulties. But on the whole, way more good days than bad days, and pretty effective communication. Until Yesterday.

So we were going over Summer plans, and I brought up the 4th of July. Friend of mine has a gorgeous house on the lake, and I suggested we head up there with our boat, and my group of friends who is planning to use the house.

Backstory. I'm 45, and pretty close to what you might call an elite athlete. I race motocross, mt bikes, wakeboard competitively, rock climb, etc etc...As such, many ( ok...practically ALL ) of my friends are in their late 20's to mid 30's athletes. These are the people who I can hang with athletically, so they've become the people I socialize with most often. I do have a few buddies my own age, and I socialize with them too, but eh...how do I say it...sometimes I just need to go a little faster and my younger friends are doing just that.

This has been an issue a few times, but before you judge, these are also young people who have their act together. They own businesses, are either married or engaged, and are into healthy lifestyles ( for the most part ) and having fun outside. These aren't wild, drug abusing, kids, and I wouldn't like them if they were. They are me, 10-15 years ago.

Anyway, when I mentioned hanging at the lake for the 4th, my wife says " I don't want to do that." So I ask why not? " Because I don't want to get drunk all week with a bunch of rowdy naked kids."

OK whoa... right? She knows this crowd well. We have them over for dinner parties and Friendsgiving every year and never once has anyone gotten naked or too rowdy.

Then I asked if she would mind if I just went that weekend, because A: I want to. and B: Logistically it would be helpful ( leaving the boat there, picking it up later on planned trip to different lake etc, not having to haul it 4 hours back home...)

And this is where the story starts. ( sorry, that wasn't brief at all )

She says " I don't think going to the lake is appropriate for a married person. Married people don't go out and party on lakes, drinking and blasting music. It's not right, it's not cool with me, and I don't think you should even want to be doing stuff like that."

Boom. Hi Ho Trigger, away! To me, this was akin to some raging alcoholic lecturing someone on how much they should drink! Seriously, if I rolled my eyes any harder, I'd have been looking out of my own butt hole!

I thought of a million things to say. I wanted to tell her SHE doesn't get to lecture ME on what appropriate marital behavior is. I wanted to tell her MY friends are nice, honest people with integrity who wouldn't cover for me like her stupid friend Corie who only wanted to hear the juicy details of her affair. I wanted to tell her that there are 10,000 people at Havasu, and a good number of them, including many of my friends, are married people just having a blast on the water without the black cloud of infidelity dampering their good time. And most of all, I wanted to tell her that I'm not the one who has proven they can't be trusted to run off leash.

But I didn't say any of that. Because none of it would have been helpful. Instead, I just let this knot build in my chest, and have been walking around with it ever since.

I'll find a way to get it all off my chest, as I always do. But I figured I'd share the story here for those of you who are 5-7 years down the line like me.

You could have told her the above in a calmer way where she would understand.

She is putting her own crap onto you, this isn't about you and the 4th party at all it's about HER and her boundaries. Just curious is that friend still her friend? The one who was her confident during her A?

I guess now just make plans for the two of you for the 4th weekend and make it special, would she be up for that?

Edited April 10, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language ~T

April 7, 2016

You could have told her the above in a calmer way where she would understand.

Agreed. And tonight, I will. In the moment I didn't have calmness in me, so I opted to hold off.

Just curious is that friend still her friend? The one who was her confident during her A?

No. As soon as I confronted OM, she was next. I walked up to her and told her our marriage already has one traitor and doesn't need two. She was blocked on all Social media, and while they did have to work together for a time, there was no socializing or lunch or any of that. After she moved, that was it. Will never see her again.

April 7, 2016

If it is fair for you it is fair for her....and vice versa.

It sounds to me like she has taken responsibility and has placed boundaries that are appropriate....and if she feels that kind of behavior is inappropriate for her...she certainly can feel it is inappropriate for you.

I cannot help but believe that it was not a trigger in your chest....but anger.
Her statement reminded you of what she had done....but it made you angry that she dare "reprimand" you for what she now deems as inappropriate behavior....after all...SHE is the one who cheated.

And honestly....she is exactly where she should be. You have worked all these years for her to be responsible for her actions....to place strict boundaries appropriate for a married woman....but now that she seems to be demanding the same from you and expressing what you have hoped she would understand and put into place in her life...you feel how dare she tell me what is wrong or right.

You two certainly have to discuss this...and you might be to a place of great importance in your reconciliation...another hurdle crossed.

Instead of looking at this negatively...please look at it as a growth spurt..because this really is a big deal for a cheater. It is an enlightenment....she has reached a really important place of understanding. and she has every right to be afraid or to feel uncomfortable with behavior that could be threatening to your relationship.

Instead of being anger with her...take her in your arms and tell her that you understand how far she has come in her thinking...and her boundaries....and that you appreciate her growth.

I know it is very hard to not lash out at her and remind her that it was her that started this whole damn process .....but she already knows it.....and she won't ever forget.

You'r'e good at this. ....dammit.

You may be right. And as I sit here and reverse the situation in my mind I have no choice but to think....well....yeah...I probably wouldn't be all that cool with it either. Of course it's hard to COMPLETELY reverse it in my mind because of the circumstances.

That said, I think what bums me out more than anything is that I thought we had a really good thing going all this time. We both enjoyed a wonderful life together, and also a lot of freedom and independence to go do the things we enjoyed, even if that mean not doing them together.

Having fun with friends has always been a very important part of my life. Always been very social, always very active, and never been one to miss out on an adventure or a get-together. So this is a struggle, and maybe I'm taking my frustration out on what I few as another loss due to her poor choices.

It's just not fair. Waaaaaah! Right?

So I will go into tonight's conversation with a very open mind and open ears. But she needs to do the same. Through all this, she still has a tendency to take ( or accept ) more than she gives, and this needs to be balanced.

I have to be true to myself here and let her know what I will truly accept, and what I KNOW will cause resentment. And she needs to bend on some of this stuff too.

April 8, 2016

I'm confused, Mrs. John Adams said

And honestly....she is exactly where she should be. You have worked all these years for her to be responsible for her actions....to place strict boundaries appropriate for a married woman....but now that she seems to be demanding the same from you and expressing what you have hoped she would understand and put into place in her life...you feel how dare she tell me what is wrong or right.

Yet in an earlier post you stated

She still goes on girls weekends away and I don't prevent them because everyone needs to get away with their friends in my opinion. I just want the same level of respect and trust in kind. Lake, River, Sand Dunes, Forest, Bars....all the same to me.

It doesn't sound to me like her boundaries are very fair to you.

(Sorry if my quotes weren't done correctly, I'm very new at this)

April 8, 2016

I'm confused, Mrs. John Adams said

And honestly....she is exactly where she should be. You have worked all these years for her to be responsible for her actions....to place strict boundaries appropriate for a married woman....but now that she seems to be demanding the same from you and expressing what you have hoped she would understand and put into place in her life...you feel how dare she tell me what is wrong or right.

Yet in an earlier post you stated

She still goes on girls weekends away and I don't prevent them because everyone needs to get away with their friends in my opinion. I just want the same level of respect and trust in kind. Lake, River, Sand Dunes, Forest, Bars....all the same to me.

It doesn't sound to me like her boundaries are very fair to you.

(Sorry if my quotes weren't done correctly, I'm very new at this)

Makes sense. But what I know is that her girls weekends are very tame. They are all about sitting at a resort drinking wine by the pool, and always with lifelong family friends. Not saying something COULDN"T happen, but it's about as safe an environment as one can imagine.

My boys weekends....not so much. They are camping/riding/racing weekends in Baja, Truck Rallys in Glamis, marathons in who-knows-where etc. Music festivals....Definitely more the types of places where anything could happen.

If I went on the kind of weekends she goes on, I can't imagine she'd have any issue with it.

April 8, 2016

Another thought.

Maybe going to the lake with you , and you going alone, just reminds her of what she did, and she is triggering. We talk about eh BS triggering, but it does go both ways.

Just an idea.....

QUOTE=TrustedthenBusted;6859961]You'r'e good at this. ....dammit.

You may be right. And as I sit here and reverse the situation in my mind I have no choice but to think....well....yeah...I probably wouldn't be all that cool with it either. Of course it's hard to COMPLETELY reverse it in my mind because of the circumstances.

That said, I think what bums me out more than anything is that I thought we had a really good thing going all this time. We both enjoyed a wonderful life together, and also a lot of freedom and independence to go do the things we enjoyed, even if that mean not doing them together.

Having fun with friends has always been a very important part of my life. Always been very social, always very active, and never been one to miss out on an adventure or a get-together. So this is a struggle, and maybe I'm taking my frustration out on what I few as another loss due to her poor choices.

It's just not fair. Waaaaaah! Right?

So I will go into tonight's conversation with a very open mind and open ears. But she needs to do the same. Through all this, she still has a tendency to take ( or accept ) more than she gives, and this needs to be balanced.

I have to be true to myself here and let her know what I will truly accept, and what I KNOW will cause resentment. And she needs to bend on some of this stuff too.

April 8, 2016

So had the conversation yesterday. It went very well and we covered all of the topics evenly and easily. She did relay, on her own, and before I could even get to it, that it is very difficult for her to bring up boundaries where my activities are concerned, because she is well aware of what a hypocrite she must sound like doing it. But at the same time, she is trying to have those difficult conversations rather than not have them. I appreciated this, as we have made a promise to each other not to let anything important get swept under the rug. So I appreciated that.

She also acknowledged that a bit part of her reason for not wanting me to go was that it would "appear" inappropriate to our friends, and she didn't want to have to explain to them why her husband was off partying on the lake while she was home with the kids. OK..I get that too.

I acknowledged that my gut reaction was visceral, and unfair, and she thanked me for keeping my tongue in my mouth until cooler heads prevailed.

We talked about trust, and for her it was not a factor. She believes I wouldn't do anything inappropriate, but still didn't think a big weekend like that was best spent without her, and surrounded by a bunch of young girls in bikinis. Ok....can't argue that one.

The only hiccup came was when she asked if I ever worry about her while she is away on her girls weekends. I think she was expecting/hoping I'd say something completely reassurring, but I couldn't lie to either of us, and I gave her my standard answer along the lines of " Let's just say I don't spend a moment worrying about it."

All these years later, and that's still the best I can do. Sometimes I feel bad for her when I give this answer because I know how much she'd rather hear that I trust her 100% again.

April 9, 2016

good job!!!! I know it hurts and it sucks! but you handled it so well.

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