If a child is this bad, can he/she be cured?

[MelodyRye]

If a kid that apparently has a good upbringing and never been abused but yet is as bad as Henry from ''The Good Son'' movie, can he/she be cured?

 

Or is child psychopathy nearly impossible to get rid of?

 

Can a 10-12 year-old kid like this be cured?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOkEIauqna4

 

Cliffs:

Henry had already drowned his baby brother Richard in the bathtub while his mother went to answer the phone, he tried to kill his younger sister (the woman's other child too) by pushing her towards thin ice and lastly even tried to kill his mother and cousin.

Edited April 6, 2016 by MelodyRye

[minimariah]

If a kid that apparently has a good upbringing and never been abused...

 

abuse & upbringing have nothing to do with it - that's how we comfort ourselves because we want to believe the evil has a cause; it doesn't. some of the worst serial killers, rapists... had fantastic upbringing and weren't abused... others who had horrible upbringing and were abused never turned to killing so there is that.

 

Or is child psychopathy nearly impossible to get rid of?

 

it's absolutely impossible. there is a chance of them being taught to control their behavior to some extent but the desire to kill always remains.

Edited April 6, 2016 by minimariah

[CarrieT]

it's absolutely impossible. there is a chance of them being taught to control their behavior to some extent but the desire to kill always remains.

Disagree.

 

Read up on the British case of Mary Bell who, as an 11-year old, strangled two other boys to death.

[SammySammy]

Disagree.

 

Read up on the British case of Mary Bell who, as an 11-year old, strangled two other boys to death.

 

How would we know she no longer has a desire to kill?

[MelodyRye]

Disagree.

 

Read up on the British case of Mary Bell who, as an 11-year old, strangled two other boys to death.

Yes, but she came from an abusive background. Her mother involved her into sexual acts early in life (if I'm not mistaken, she also tried to overdose her daughter with pills when she was just a toddler) and who knows what else horrible things she has been exposed to. I think her case is more enviromental than just being evil for no reason.

 

The kid I'm referring to is one that had no abusive background and had good parents but still is a psychopath even if put in healthy environment. Now that's even scarier since it's already within their personality.

Edited April 6, 2016 by MelodyRye

[MelodyRye]

How would we know she no longer has a desire to kill?

This. If someone at that age crossed that line to kill someone, I would still very distrusting of them. I'm think they will always have that desire but instead of killing, they might replace it with something else such as scamming people.

 

I guess in the end there is no cure for Henry types.

[preraph]

There is a chance that a thorough neuro and physical and psychiatric exam and testing, which would cost thousands, would pinpoint a problem and they'd find a way to improve things. But that is a job for a whole institute, not just one doctor. It's a maximum in-house evaluation at, for example if you've watched Dr. Phil, for these extreme cases, he recommends the Lawlis PNP Center in Dallas.

 

But yes, there are things that are incurable even with young minds. Having a thorough neuro testing eliminates possibility of a malformation of the brain or a brain tumor and may diagnose other brain disorders. That's where to start on something like that. With that eliminated, it's down to whole family therapy. If it's psychological, ALWAYS the parents must also be in therapy and the whole family. It doesn't happen in a vacuum unless it's physical brain problems.

 

Once brain is ruled out, then the younger you fix the psychological problems with the family and child, the better chance of success. There will either be a failure on the part of the parents to train the child in some way they are probably oblivious to or there's someone causing trauma in some way.

 

But there are kids out there who science does not understand why are just plain bad and violent. Profilers have said that just about any fifth grade teacher can tell you which kids will end up in prison, and I believe that's true.

 

Biggest problem to make kids violent is viewing violence. Biggest problem to create a sociopath is a kid who did not learn empathy, and that can happen by having sociopath parents or it can happen by having parents who think their kid is always right and never give the kid consequences from a young age. Entitlement is a big factor to violence.

[minimariah]

Read up on the British case of Mary Bell who, as an 11-year old, strangled two other boys to death.

 

little is known about Bell's life POST prison so i cannot comment... but i doubt she was TRULY rehabilitated; i can comment on one other case - the murder of James Bulger (2 years old at the time)... by Robert Thompson & Jon Venables. Thompson was 11 at the time and was released - like Bell, he never made another offence again.

 

i met & spoke with the therapist who worked with Thompson - he never showed any remorse, there was absolutely no chance of true rehabilitation and he got out of that prison the same he was... when he entered - only smarter. Bell was probably the same way and the fact that they stayed OUT of legal troubles only confirms that. meaning - they found other, less damaging way for THEM, to practice their desires on... it's usually petty emotional manipulation and abuse.

 

on the other hand, Venables did end up back in jail and it was expected; he expressed remorse and confusion and was most likely to repeat the same offence again.

 

the only other case is Beth Thomas - child of rage - who probably did get rehabilitated... but to some extent.

 

people, children... ARE born bad. we often relly on their abusive backgrounds in order to explain their behavior because we want to believe there is a reasonable explanation behind their acts - after all, random evil... mindless evil is pretty scary... but the truth is - they will remain the same. they will just learn to stay out of legal troubles a bit better.

 

let's say out of 1000 abused kids - only one or two of them will grow up to be sadistic killers... meaning, the abuse is only the trigger; it is always a part of the personality, the environment is never the cause.

[Taramere]

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to try to be the one to rehabilitate a murderous child.

 

Have you ever seen the film Heavenly Creatures?

 

 

Based on a brutal murder carried out on a woman by her daughter and said daughter's best friend - who viewed her as an obstacle to their continued friendship. On being released from prison, one of them changed her name and went on to become a best selling novelist - selling tens of millions of books.

 

When Anne Perry?s dark past was revealed - The Globe and Mail

[Tayla]

Since the operative word is "Cured", then the answer is NO.

 

With behavior modification, intense counseling and even some medications, Humans are capable of transitioning.

 

My anxiety will not be cured, its managed and its modified. So too with other ailments that sustain at different levels.

 

If its a viral or a change in chemicals, then I can see how it might be "cured" ...

 

Can someone kindly define the terminology though of "bad" child? Is it in reference to a behavior? Intellect? Body Health? Attitude?

[minimariah]

Can someone kindly define the terminology though of "bad" child? Is it in reference to a behavior? Intellect? Body Health? Attitude?

 

to me - bad child = evil. reference to their behavior + personality.

 

i'd definitely describe Bell & Thompson, for example, as evil.

[Ms. Faust]

Eric Smith is another one, that I wonder about. Obviously the crime that he committed was reprehensible, but I think the media played up his "evil nature". He was an awkward looking red headed kid with big ears and a flat affect, and the press had a field day with his looks and demeanor in court.

 

He is still in prison, and probably will be for the rest of his life.

[preraph]

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to try to be the one to rehabilitate a murderous child.

 

Have you ever seen the film Heavenly Creatures?

 

 

Based on a brutal murder carried out on a woman by her daughter and said daughter's best friend - who viewed her as an obstacle to their continued friendship. On being released from prison, one of them changed her name and went on to become a best selling novelist - selling tens of millions of books.

 

When Anne Perry?s dark past was revealed - The Globe and Mail

 

 

I loved that movie, Heaveny Creatures.

[preraph]

You know, a couple of untreated head injuries caused a friend of mine's perfectly good husband to deteriorate and so crazy things. Frontal lobe, probably. And head injuries are common enough in kids. Really all it takes is something like that. But there may be nothing to do about it either. Still better to know what you're dealing with though.

[MomLeslieM]

I wouldn’t say that they can never be cured but at the same time the earlier the child would get good counseling the better – and most likely they should be seen for the rest of their life by a therapist they trust and are completely honest with.

[Lady2163]

Nature versus nurture is amazing to watch unfold.

 

I have a former friend who had no business having children.

 

Neither her parents or mine really did an adequate job preparing us for adulthood. The difference is: her folks were very quick to step in with some extra money. Mine didn't - and it never crossed my mind to ask or to explain what the problems were.

 

Because she had a trust fund, she was able to stop working when she was in her early 30s. Her kids don't remember a time where she worked. Since she doesn't have to work, and her kids don't acknowledge that she did work for 13 years, they don't think they have to work.

 

I could go on and on about what an awful parent she is, but at the end of the day she has sent two young people out in the world even less prepared and much worse off than she was.

 

Environment matters. I don't think these two girls - now 18 and 20 will ever have the lightbulb go on, simply because they don't know what normal is. Work is for other people. School is for other people. They've learned from their mother that they don't have to think about other people.

 

So, when you have a child who is a bad seed, if they are sent away for rehabilitation, I think it is very difficult for them to grasp "normal"". I don't know if they can be cured.

[JuanDelToro]

abuse & upbringing have nothing to do with it - that's how we comfort ourselves because we want to believe the evil has a cause; it doesn't. some of the worst serial killers, rapists... had fantastic upbringing and weren't abused... others who had horrible upbringing and were abused never turned to killing so there is that.

 

Abuse and upbringing has everything to do with it. In developmental psychology we learn that a child will develop a character and a personality according to stimulation from the environment. What we call `nature & nurture`. Our psyche becomes a projection of the experiences we have during our lifetime, especially at the early stages when our brain develops. The only reason which can inhibit this natural evolution, is psychosis. Though it is quite rare among children. For example, in the 1-10 age group, among a sample of 100,000 children only 3 will show some type of schizophrenia.

 

 

it's absolutely impossible. there is a chance of them being taught to control their behavior to some extent but the desire to kill always remains.

 

Can be a challenge but it is not impossible. Too many factors and variables to list but in general it depends on the rigidity of the belief system that the child has developed and also age. The younger the child is the easiest is to reframe but harder to work with from a comprehension perspective. Older children have better comprehension abilities but are harder to reframe as their defence mechanisms can be solid as. In some cases more solid than those of adults.

[minimariah]

Abuse and upbringing has everything to do with it. In developmental psychology we learn that a child will develop a character and a personality according to stimulation from the environment.

 

that is correct but incomplete for young psychopaths; modern psychology still argues about one important question: can empathy be learned? if the answer to that question is YES... then it is, indeed, possible to cure young psychopaths. so far though, those attempts were generally unsuccessful.

 

if abuse and upbringing have EVERYTHING to do with it - then how come ALL abused children don't turn out to be your next Ted Bundy? there has to be a strong mental predisposition. we aren't formed SOLELY by our environments; that's why there are a bunch of kids out there who had it even worse than Bundy and petty theft in youth was as far as they went.

 

Our psyche becomes a projection of the experiences we have during our lifetime, especially at the early stages when our brain develops.

 

for sure but the thread is about extreme exceptions; in the OP's first post - we see a child who grew up in a loving environment. it is fiction but possible.

 

The only reason which can inhibit this natural evolution, is psychosis. Though it is quite rare among children. For example, in the 1-10 age group, among a sample of 100,000 children only 3 will show some type of schizophrenia.

 

schizophrenia has a strong genetic component though and won't develop ONLY based on abusive environment.

[preraph]

This just happened in in my town.

 

?Favorite Foodie? TV personality, sons die in Plano murder-suicide | The Star-Telegram

 

Son stabs mother and brother to death. Since she was a media personality, I hear a lot more details on the radio from broadcasters who are hearing inside stuff.

 

They said they knew the son likely had brain damage from a basketball concussion. So that's what a head injury can do to you. By all accounts, this was a mother her sons usually praised and a good person.