How can a man (or woman) respect the other person if they cheat on their spouse?

April 2, 2016

Agreed?

I've came to the conclusion anyone who is willing to cheat on their spouse numerous of times with numerous of people could never respect the other person . It amazes me how one could get bent out of shape about being or feeling disrespected by a married person that can't even stay true to their vows.

What do you all think?

April 2, 2016

In my situation, this guy who is trying to cheat, he has been with his girlfriend-then-fiance for more than 10 years now since high school. I don't quite understand why he is doing this. What does it mean to her? What does it mean to their relationship that has lasted more than 10 years? Does he care about how she is going to feel when she has found out? Does he even respect her?

Edited April 2, 2016 by anyonecandoit
more details

April 2, 2016

And actually, I have another question. How can they show love and passion to someone outside of their relationship and then when they go back home, they could show that they love their spouse so much in front all the friends, relatives, etc?

April 2, 2016

And actually, I have another question. How can they show love and passion to someone outside of their relationship and then when they go back home, they could show that they love their spouse so much in front all the friends, relatives, etc?

Great perspective. I totally agree. So basically the person respects no one, including themselves. Narcissistic, perhaps? Or just unhappy but feel trapped in a loveless marriage?

hmmm....

April 2, 2016

This perplexes me to no end. They say, if he cheats on his wife, he will cheat on you as well. Perhaps. But...when you have two cheaters, is one worse or better than the other or do they deserve each other? If they are both cheating, then does that mean neither can trust the other or might it mean that they both screwed up big time the first time around and could repair things with each other?

Another interesting thing I read that I haven't verified, but that makes me curious. They say that affair partners who DO end up leaving their marriages for each other have a very small success rate. However, affair partners who are rekindling love from a long time ago often have a ridiculously higher success rate (like 75% or something crazy like that).

Am I just completely grasping at straws, or are there actually success stories more than like 5% of the time? Most of the people on this forum are NOT the success stories, at least as far as affairs go. Or...maybe they ARE the success stories (they got out!) and I'm looking at it all wrong. It's just that most people here seem so unhappy. They are like, I know I'm doing the right thing, it hurts so much, I'm so miserable, but it's right...

I wonder about the ones who did the wrong things. Did it ruin them even more than this?

April 3, 2016

They say, if he cheats on his wife, he will cheat on you as well.

"They" might say that... But then "they" also say the moon is made of green cheese, the earth is flat, and Coke is better than Pepsi.

The truth is, "they" have no way of knowing who will and who won't "cheat". If they had, they would not have married their own WS, would not have employed that staff member who went home with a pocketful of stationery every evening, and would not have agreed to play Scrabble with Aunty Val.

Yes, some people are "serial cheats". They are a minority. Most people who engage in infidelity do so once, and learn from it. Some reconcile, and never repeat their infidelity despite being in the "same" M, to the same BS. Some leave and M the AP, and apply the lessons to the new R. Others go into different Rs with new people, and never resort to infidelity again. People are all different, and their reasons for infidelity are all different. For some, it's a "go to" strategy which gives them the results they want / need (if only for a while). For others, it was a last ditch attempt to deal with a perfect storm of circumstances that they would never repeat.

"They" have no way of knowing which it is. "They" work in absolutes, and have no time for nuance or detail.

"They" are not most people. Most people bother to find out some information before passing judgment. That's why most people don't go round believing the moon is made of green cheese.

April 3, 2016

And actually, I have another question. How can they show love and passion to someone outside of their relationship and then when they go back home, they could show that they love their spouse so much in front all the friends, relatives, etc?

The answer is simple...

They don't love the spouse and/or any woman...People are just objects to them, they use them to get what they want. The wife is used to give the semblance of the guy being this perfect "family guy" to family, friends, the community. Also, it's nice to have someone warm to cuddle up to. Then, the other woman(en) are used to make up for whatever whims he has and/or what wife falls short in.

I know, you look at all the FB pics and are like "oh, he loves her"***pfft*** no one knows what happens behind closed doors. I mean, would you wanna be the wife, gf, fiance or whatever of some guy with a wandering eye? Sure, he comes back to you "home base" but you're no more important just cuz of that, you're just another person he's using.

April 3, 2016

"They" might say that... But then "they" also say the moon is made of green cheese, the earth is flat, and Coke is better than Pepsi.

The truth is, "they" have no way of knowing who will and who won't "cheat". If they had, they would not have married their own WS, would not have employed that staff member who went home with a pocketful of stationery every evening, and would not have agreed to play Scrabble with Aunty Val.

Yes, some people are "serial cheats". They are a minority. Most people who engage in infidelity do so once, and learn from it. Some reconcile, and never repeat their infidelity despite being in the "same" M, to the same BS. Some leave and M the AP, and apply the lessons to the new R. Others go into different Rs with new people, and never resort to infidelity again. People are all different, and their reasons for infidelity are all different. For some, it's a "go to" strategy which gives them the results they want / need (if only for a while). For others, it was a last ditch attempt to deal with a perfect storm of circumstances that they would never repeat.

"They" have no way of knowing which it is. "They" work in absolutes, and have no time for nuance or detail.

"They" are not most people. Most people bother to find out some information before passing judgment. That's why most people don't go round believing the moon is made of green cheese.

I used to classify married cheaters into three:

1) A dog. He will never be satisfied with "any" woman.

2) Starved. In a bad marriage, neglected, just is hungry to be treated well, sexed, shown attention/affection.

3) One timers. Slipped. Maybe had too much to drink, was in a rough patch and opportunity came and they slipped. Repents and will never, ever do it again.

Now, I don't classify them. They're all the same. They're not "victims". They "chose" their wives and then when they're unhappy with the bed they made for themselves, they somehow feel "entitled" to cheat.

Also, they're cowards. They want the easy way out. They want it all. Yes, divorce is costly and devastating to the kids. But they won't avoid divorce for those reasons. They avoid divorce and cheat because they want it easy for "them".

Lastly, they want their cake and eat it too. They may to the point where they can't stand their wives, but they won't get divorced cuz they don't wanna be "shamed"...they wanna portray this fairytale that is their so-called marriage and family. They also want the convenience of "someone" at home waiting for them while they run the streets and play.

So, at the end of the day even "if" you don't generalize all married cheaters, they are all the same at the end of the day - regardless of their reasons for cheating.

April 3, 2016

To respond to the basic premise, imputing disrespect/dislike/disregard for one person and expanding it to all or any random and sundry persons, one would have to regard human relations as linear, rather than fluid. Instead, think of a relationship, or relations, as a box, here perhaps maybe a tank of water, and behaviors relevant to that relationship/relations as contained within that box. Another relationship, with another human, has a box of its own.

Simplistically, that's how we humans can love and protect one human and seek out and kill another human. I've often used the gross example of a man who kills people for a living and comes home and hugs and kisses and gently plays with his children and kisses his wife tenderly. He might have snuffed out the life of another human without regard to their humanity only that very day but that is a box with another human in it, now deceased, and his wife and child are in another box. Relevant to this topic, his mistress or lover could be in yet another box, desired and loved and respected as that person in his life. His male best friend, in another box. His boss in another box. Etc, Etc.

Any of the boxes can change at any time, for any reason, or no reason at all. Love can turn to hate, life to death, health to sickness, always to never, on and on. That's how.

April 4, 2016

To respond to the basic premise, imputing disrespect/dislike/disregard for one person and expanding it to all or any random and sundry persons, one would have to regard human relations as linear, rather than fluid. Instead, think of a relationship, or relations, as a box, here perhaps maybe a tank of water, and behaviors relevant to that relationship/relations as contained within that box. Another relationship, with another human, has a box of its own.

Simplistically, that's how we humans can love and protect one human and seek out and kill another human. I've often used the gross example of a man who kills people for a living and comes home and hugs and kisses and gently plays with his children and kisses his wife tenderly. He might have snuffed out the life of another human without regard to their humanity only that very day but that is a box with another human in it, now deceased, and his wife and child are in another box. Relevant to this topic, his mistress or lover could be in yet another box, desired and loved and respected as that person in his life. His male best friend, in another box. His boss in another box. Etc, Etc.

Any of the boxes can change at any time, for any reason, or no reason at all. Love can turn to hate, life to death, health to sickness, always to never, on and on. That's how.

IMO, that's comparing apples to oranges.

Soldiers go out and kill people - yet come home to family, wife, and kids they love. Not the same as a man who has a wife and another woman on the side.

In some religions/cultures, a man cannot have mistresses. He must "marry" each of them and treat them equally (no poly and/or swingers crap). So, is a man capable of having love for more than one woman in that case? Maybe. Cuz there's no sneaking around and wife is aware of the other woman. Wife is also involved in the decision to obtain another woman.

But your average, every day cheaters from cultures and/or religions primarily from western and european nations - nah, they don't love both women, especially when you look at the context they place a mistress and/or their wife in. I mean, look on this MB how the WS speaks of the mistresses as some impediment to their happiness. They even describe their affairs as mistakes, fogs, etc (or, as in my case - a "cancer" that they must rid themselves of). They just see the OW an object that was in their way cuz now that they got "caught", time to run back to the other object (the wife) cuz it's all about the WS in the end. No love for wife or OW, just where/who's more convenient.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Gloria25

April 4, 2016

Agreed?

I've came to the conclusion anyone who is willing to cheat on their spouse numerous of times with numerous of people could never respect the other person . It amazes me how one could get bent out of shape about being or feeling disrespected by a married person that can't even stay true to their vows.

What do you all think?

I can't agree with your statement. I do agree someone who does it multiple times with different people has little respect for their significant other. But for me cheating is more about the person doing the cheating then their partner. For the most part it has nothing to with their SO. Most of time it's something wrong with them or how they act.

When I cheated on my Husband I can honestly say there was nothing he could've done to stop it. I just wasn't ready to be married at the time. I didn't understand what a marriage was. I was still acting as if I was still single girl in her 20's not like someone who was married. When get married they are certain situations we have to learn to avoid so you won't be put in a situation where you might do something you would later regret, not go looking for them.

April 4, 2016

I dunno I do think some cheaters are also in denial, some do not think what they are doing is really "bad" or even disrespectful.

Further I have had debates with cheaters and the cheated that a person can cheat and still be in love... or loving... to their spouse.

hmmm....

What is respect?

What is love ?

Different people I suppose have different view of those words. Not defending them - just saying I have been very surprised when I got into talks with some people - including here on LS - on what love and or respect means in a marriage.

April 4, 2016

While not every person who cheats once will go on to cheat again, one thing that is really important is for them to recognize their full responsibility for making that choice. Those who refuse to do so are at a higher risk of cheating in the future.

As for whether or not a marriage from an affair will be doomed to fail, of course, some will not, but the statistics bear out that many second marriages will not last. This, of course, includes marriages that started out as affairs.

"Past statistics have shown that in the U.S. 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 73% of third marriages end in divorce."

Source-

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-intelligent-divorce/201202/the-high-failure-rate-second-and-third-marriages

"About 67-80% of second marriages end in divorce"

Source-http://healthresearchfunding.org/55-surprising-divorce-statistics-second-marriages/

a thought why do so many marriages born from affairs fail?

"The new relationship is a fantasy, a vacation-like relationship, revolving in its own orbit and, unbeknownst to both parties, usually only works within the context of the man being married. Often when this refuge is gone, the affair relationship typically is not sustainable long-term. Consistently, marriage to the affair partner is a major factor accounting for higher divorce rates in 2nd marriages."

Source-http://psychcentral.com/lib/who-said-its-not-your-affair-part-1/

gain, not ever marriage that started out as an affair will fail, and not everyone who cheats once will cheat again, but the risk is higher, and lessening that risk is predicated on the former ws/mm admitted their responsibility for the A and learning better ways of behaving.

some simply can't do so or refuse to do so.

April 4, 2016

IMO, that's comparing apples to oranges.

Soldiers go out and kill people - yet come home to family, wife, and kids they love. Not the same as a man who has a wife and another woman on the side.

In some religions/cultures, a man cannot have mistresses. He must "marry" each of them and treat them equally (no poly and/or swingers crap). So, is a man capable of having love for more than one woman in that case? Maybe. Cuz there's no sneaking around and wife is aware of the other woman. Wife is also involved in the decision to obtain another woman.

But your average, every day cheaters from cultures and/or religions primarily from western and european nations - nah, they don't love both women, especially when you look at the context they place a mistress and/or their wife in. I mean, look on this MB how the WS speaks of the mistresses as some impediment to their happiness. They even describe their affairs as mistakes, fogs, etc (or, as in my case - a "cancer" that they must rid themselves of). They just see the OW an object that was in their way cuz now that they got "caught", time to run back to the other object (the wife) cuz it's all about the WS in the end. No love for wife or OW, just where/who's more convenient.

I gave you my take on the psychology, being a man. Up to you whether or not it resonates with you. I've known a lot of male and female cheaters personally in life and dabbled a bit in infidelity myself. If you want to label the totality of a person by one aspect of who they are, sure, you can label. People do that.

Take a look around, then look in the mirror. Labels apply everywhere; no one is immune. Unless you, or anyone, is Mother Theresa, and I doubt she'd even agree to being perfect, people are a mixed bag and, yup, love and treat people differently, or the same, for any reason or no reason at all.

April 4, 2016

I used to classify married cheaters into three:

1) A dog. He will never be satisfied with "any" woman.

2) Starved. In a bad marriage, neglected, just is hungry to be treated well, sexed, shown attention/affection.

3) One timers. Slipped. Maybe had too much to drink, was in a rough patch and opportunity came and they slipped. Repents and will never, ever do it again.

Now, I don't classify them. They're all the same. They're not "victims". They "chose" their wives and then when they're unhappy with the bed they made for themselves, they somehow feel "entitled" to cheat.

Also, they're cowards. They want the easy way out. They want it all. Yes, divorce is costly and devastating to the kids. But they won't avoid divorce for those reasons. They avoid divorce and cheat because they want it easy for "them".

Lastly, they want their cake and eat it too. They may to the point where they can't stand their wives, but they won't get divorced cuz they don't wanna be "shamed"...they wanna portray this fairytale that is their so-called marriage and family. They also want the convenience of "someone" at home waiting for them while they run the streets and play.

So, at the end of the day even "if" you don't generalize all married cheaters, they are all the same at the end of the day - regardless of their reasons for cheating.

Your generalisation assumes that

1) all MM come to engage in infidelity through the same mechanism, and

2) no MM leaves the BW.

Bot of these assumptions are patently untrue; hence, your logic fails and your argument as it stands is void.

April 4, 2016

While not every person who cheats once will go on to cheat again, one thing that is really important is for them to recognize their full responsibility for making that choice. Those who refuse to do so are at a higher risk of cheating in the future.

As for whether or not a marriage from an affair will be doomed to fail, of course, some will not, but the statistics bear out that many second marriages will not last. This, of course, includes marriages that started out as affairs.

"Past statistics have shown that in the U.S. 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 73% of third marriages end in divorce."
Source-
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-intelligent-divorce/201202/the-high-failure-rate-second-and-third-marriages

"About 67-80% of second marriages end in divorce"
Source-http://healthresearchfunding.org/55-surprising-divorce-statistics-second-marriages/

1) these stats *may* be true for the US (I've not read the original studies from which these stats derive, so can't state definitively whether or not the meagre with their validity) _but_ even know f they are valid for the US, they do not claim (and can't be said) to be valid outside of the US, or even within he US beyond the time period from which the data were collected.

a thought why do so many marriages born from affairs fail?

"The new relationship is a fantasy, a vacation-like relationship, revolving in its own orbit and, unbeknownst to both parties, usually only works within the context of the man being married. Often when this refuge is gone, the affair relationship typically is not sustainable long-term. Consistently, marriage to the affair partner is a major factor accounting for higher divorce rates in 2nd marriages."

Source-http://psychcentral.com/lib/who-said-its-not-your-affair-part-1/

gain, not ever marriage that started out as an affair will fail, and not everyone who cheats once will cheat again, but the risk is higher, and lessening that risk is predicated on the former ws/mm admitted their responsibility for the A and learning better ways of behaving.

some simply can't do so or refuse to do so.

2) this is from an opinion piece, written on a populist blog by one of the millions of people who happen to have a PhD. There is nothing to indicate that it is based on any research whatsoever. Having a PhD does not make everything you write, on any subject whether or not related to your thesis topic, any more informed than anyone else's random opinion _unless_ it is informed by research, and the bounds of that research are clearly stated so that others can rationally asses the truth claims made against the evidence. As it stands, this blog post has the same status as Aunty Edith's rant about the new neighbours in no 27.

2) Even given that disclaimer, the statement quoted above is taken out of context. The blogger states that there are "many types of affairs" and then goes on to discuss some factors that she considers to apply to "typical" men involved in As (having already said there are many different kinds.... Spot the contradiction!) The excerpt quoted thus applies only to the "typical" MM, whoever or whatever that might be, who engages in whichever of the types she lists (or any of the others she doesn't list) and not to any other MM. Since she does not anywhere clarify what she means by "typical", one can only assume she's using the term in the most popular sense, I.e. Without any psychological validity. Hence, it's a thumbsuck informed by her own pet prejudices, as valid (but no more or no less) than any of the opinions posted here by anyone else.

I could post a blog on a professional-ish website, listing all of my academic qualifications, and quote it here. It still would not make it "truth" - just opinion - *unless* I backed it up with proper rigorous research.

April 5, 2016

Not all of the married women that I slept with were in bad marriages.

They were still very much in love with their husbands.

Typically these were in their 30's and realized that they had had sex with only one or two men, and wanted to experience anther man before it was too late.

As one put it, after ten years of being with the same man, she wanted just one night with some one else.

April 5, 2016

Most government divorce stats are total bunk

Repeatedly we read how the divorce rate it 50% and the marriages that result from affairs are generally over with in five years. My state stats are similar, as that is what they want us to believe.

Through my family, most of whom spent most of their working years employed by the government, city, county, state and federal, I know one of the persons who job it is to organize the divorce stats for my state.

In the past decade there have been a couple of studies published that show that the divorce rate for red or Republican states is generally higher than those of the blue states. I live in a red state.

Actually for my state the divorce rate is 50% but what they don't tell you is that is for marriages of seven years or less. At 15 years the rate goes up to close to 75%, 20 years another jump into the 80's.

As for affair marriages, meaning marriages that resulted from affairs, their stats are actually quite a bit less.

April 5, 2016

I have never really cheated on my wife for 20 years; though i attempted to do it but just withdrew in the last moments ...

I was never and will never be satisfied sexually in my marriage .

I stay because every time I evaluate all the good things in this marriage versus my sexual satisfaction , I find that the damage is not worth it at this stage .

what others see as cowardness , I value as givology to my family .

The main point is that no one should generalize about this issue ; every case is different ; and the more we generalize the more we become Borderline.

For example , my needs are not satisfied ; but my wife is still playing a good role in the kids life ,and in my life in general ( when she acts normal!), I have three kids who are gorgeous ; to simplify it she is not really into sex;

while I am i am HD ; shall I divorce just because my needs are not met ?

who will be the selfish in this case .

To survive , I am playing near the line of infidelity but not crossing it ; I go out with friends , dance , hug , kiss , and that's it .

my wife knows a bit about it , but of course not the details ; the formula is simple: , You want me to enjoy time with you , come dance with me , hug me , kiss me !

but you can't keep me in a jar while you are watching 2 episodes of Indian series daily out of 347!

April 5, 2016

Most government divorce stats are total bunk
Repeatedly we read how the divorce rate it 50% and the marriages that result from affairs are generally over with in five years. My state stats are similar, as that is what they want us to believe.
Through my family, most of whom spent most of their working years employed by the government, city, county, state and federal, I know one of the persons who job it is to organize the divorce stats for my state.
In the past decade there have been a couple of studies published that show that the divorce rate for red or Republican states is generally higher than those of the blue states. I live in a red state.
Actually for my state the divorce rate is 50% but what they don't tell you is that is for marriages of seven years or less. At 15 years the rate goes up to close to 75%, 20 years another jump into the 80's.
As for affair marriages, meaning marriages that resulted from affairs, their stats are actually quite a bit less.

Sorry, but I don't by the idea that government stats record which marriages started out as affairs.

Second migraines have a lower rate of success than first, and the same goes for third, fourth or fifth. A marriage that started out as an affair would be a second marriage for at least one of the spouses.

April 5, 2016

I realy find it interesting how may people are willing to accept infidelity, which many consider to be a form of abuse, and blame it on the bs with " if you only acted differently, this never would have happened".

In many bs, it does a lot of emotional harm.

Would anyone say to a spouse who was physically, mentally or verbally abused that " it's your own damn fault. if you didn't goad your husband or wife, he or she wouldn't hit you, or otherwise treat you badly"?

I sure hope no one would say that.

If it is true, and I believe that it is, that there is no excuse for abusing your spouse, then this also applies to infidelity. A person who gets angry enough at her husband has other choices she can exercise besides hitting him. sure , he may be a lout, but she made the choice to raise her hand to him. That is on her.

April 5, 2016

Just to repeat what I posted on another thread.....

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/574718-curious-about-sentiment-there-no-excuse-cheating-14.html#post6852801

I agree there is NO excuse for cheating.

April 5, 2016

Thats a good question....people cheat for many different reasons. When I almost had an affair 7 years ago it was becouse of the thrill of the hunt and finding out if I could get what I wanted. I'm very good at compartmentalizing my life. It never got nowhere. But since we here not to judge or persecute any individual, just how you wonder how can you respect the partner that cheated.....many wonder how some couples get better at there relationship when they forgive. The marriege reinvents itself to something worth saving. Issues are confronted head on becouse they have no choice but to confront them. So while some can never forgive, some can. And there lives are never the same in both situations.

April 5, 2016

There is a lot of cheating wives that the husbands never get wind of.

As a male dancer I have my choice of a different married woman each night.

Most of them are as 2.50 says, just wanting a different partner for just one night.

April 6, 2016

Respect - a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

Admire - look at with pleasure.

So how can someone look with pleasure upon another who gives them physical or emotional gratitification? Easy, it's colloquially dubbed "cake-eating." The person likes what the other person gives them not who the other person is or what the other person's about.

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How can a man (or woman) respect the other person if they cheat on their spouse?

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