moimeme Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Ever since he turned 21 years old. He has been drinking alost everyday, smoking weed a lot more, and smoking cigarrettes every so often Really, you don't need this dude. He's drinking almost every day? This is BAD. He asked you to move out? Don't just talk to him - the others are right. He's dumping you but keeping you around so he can have sex. You know this is true but you 'don't want to lose' him. Unfortunately, I think his loss will be the best thing for you.
Author Savannah Posted June 16, 2005 Author Posted June 16, 2005 I just don't know if this is going to be him from now on or if he is just excited about finally being on his own and 21. This isn't him though.
Author Savannah Posted June 16, 2005 Author Posted June 16, 2005 So how should I go about my meeting wit him today? I told him on the phone that we just need to talk about some things, and he insisted on knowing what about so I said it was about us. Later, he called to find out what about us did I want to talk about. So I said that either my needs are going to count instead of him using me or I am going to need time away from him. Then he got upset and said, then why not just take a break? I said that I wanted to talk in more detail. I want to just say everything that bothers me that he is doing and see if he is willing to continue the relationship in a different light, otherwise, as much as it hurts, I will have to detatch myself from him completely. Any pointers?
ConfusedInOC Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Originally posted by Savannah So how should I go about my meeting wit him today? I told him on the phone that we just need to talk about some things, and he insisted on knowing what about so I said it was about us. Later, he called to find out what about us did I want to talk about. So I said that either my needs are going to count instead of him using me or I am going to need time away from him. Then he got upset and said, then why not just take a break? I said that I wanted to talk in more detail. I want to just say everything that bothers me that he is doing and see if he is willing to continue the relationship in a different light, otherwise, as much as it hurts, I will have to detatch myself from him completely. Any pointers? Savannah, this is what I meant when I said that when someone is trying to pull away from you that instead of clinging to them, you need to pull back as well. He WANTS to take a break and you're insisting on working things out. He doesn't want to work them out right now, he just wants a break from you. By saying "Let's take a break" he's really saying to you "How free am I to leave it I want to?" Love Must Be Free. If you don't allow love to grow and be free but instead try and manipulate the relationship to suit your wants and needs you will simply push him away completely. That's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you're trying to do. The only way to see if things will work out is to pull away. Give him the space he wants and let things be. I know you want to talk and work things out but I can tell you now if you force anything on him he'll let you walk and won't regret it (because in a roundabout way your actions will only confirm what he's been thinking all along: "She's too clingy and won't give me my space...") I hope you understand that I've been through this myself and wanted to do the same thing you are trying to accomplish in the same way and all I accomplished was nailing the coffin shut. I can't force you to listen or take my advice, because love doesn't make us do rational things, but I can assure you if you don't, you will cause the demise of your relationship. Good luck.
crazy_grl Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Originally posted by Savannah So how should I go about my meeting wit him today? I told him on the phone that we just need to talk about some things, and he insisted on knowing what about so I said it was about us. Later, he called to find out what about us did I want to talk about. So I said that either my needs are going to count instead of him using me or I am going to need time away from him. Then he got upset and said, then why not just take a break? I said that I wanted to talk in more detail. I want to just say everything that bothers me that he is doing and see if he is willing to continue the relationship in a different light, otherwise, as much as it hurts, I will have to detatch myself from him completely. Any pointers? Just ask him flat out if he wants to be in the relationship or if he's trying to push you away and get you to leave him. Tell him that you'd rather he was honest with you than taking the coward's way out. If he says he does want the relationship, then tell him that you want him to act like he wants it, and that you want him to stop his destructive behavior changes. If he won't, tell him that you need time to think about whether you want to be with someone like who he's becoming. And make sure not to be angry, nagging, or desperate while you're talking. I don't know what he'll say, but if he's honest, he'll probably tell you he wants to end it. He's certainly acting that way. Most of all, be strong and realize that you don't need him, and you're only hurting yourself more by staying on a sinking ship. Realize that you're better off with no relationship than one that's going the way he's taking yours.
Author Savannah Posted June 16, 2005 Author Posted June 16, 2005 so just telling him that i am the one that needs the break will be good because it would put me in control and hopefully make him feel as lost as i do
crazy_grl Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Originally posted by Savannah so just telling him that i am the one that needs the break will be good because it would put me in control and hopefully make him feel as lost as i do No. That's called playing a game. Playing games doesn't work any more than clinging on to somebody who's trying to get away from you. You need to know for your own sake whether he really wants to end it. Get him to say it. If you just tell him you need a break, you'll be expecting him to come running back. But if he just doesn't want the relationship, he'll see it as having made his escape. You're only going to feel worse when he doesn't come back.
crazy_grl Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 I guess I wasn't finished: Before you tell him you need a break, you need to realize that a relationship like the one you've got right now is only going to make you miserable. If you request a break, you need to be prepared for this to be the end of your relationship, because there is no guarantee that he's going to come back. You need to request a break for YOU not as a way to get him to come running back to you. Doing it for yourself is called having self respect. Doing it as yet another way to cling on to him is desperation. But only request a break if he says that he still wants the relationship.
ConfusedInOC Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Originally posted by crazy_grl No. That's called playing a game. Playing games doesn't work any more than clinging on to somebody who's trying to get away from you. You need to know for your own sake whether he really wants to end it. Get him to say it. If you just tell him you need a break, you'll be expecting him to come running back. But if he just doesn't want the relationship, he'll see it as having made his escape. You're only going to feel worse when he doesn't come back. It's pretty obvious to me from what she is saying that he wants a break. She should give it to him but not make a big "to do" about it. He wants to know how free he is and if she confronts him and asks him stright up all she will do is force him to push her away even further. My suggestion would be to cancel the "meeting" today and just tell him "You're right, we need a break" and give him some space. He needs time to miss you and to understand what he is giving up. If you "force" him into a corner he's going to run away as fast as he can. Sometimes the best form of communication, as in cases like this, is none. Give him what he wants, which is his space, or confront him and possibly end it for good. Oh well, that's my $0.02 on this subject. Good luck whatever you decide.
Author Savannah Posted June 16, 2005 Author Posted June 16, 2005 If you request a break, you need to be prepared for this to be the end of your relationship, because there is no guarantee that he's going to come back. I am not ready to end it completely though. I have also given him plenty of outs where I actually broke up with him and walked away. The next day we were back together but he still gives me crap for breaking up with him in the first place. Then, about a week and a half ago, he said that I deserve more than what he is giving me and then he broke it off. Later on that night he apologized and we were back together. I have asked him if he wants to break up completely and he says that he doesn't, but he does think that we need a break in order to save our relationship.
crazy_grl Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Originally posted by ConfusedInOC It's pretty obvious to me from what she is saying that he wants a break. She should give it to him but not make a big "to do" about it. He wants to know how free he is and if she confronts him and asks him stright up all she will do is force him to push her away even further. He's already gone. He's only requesting a 'break' because he's too much of a coward to say he wants to break up with her. He doesn't want space. He wants out. I've done the 'Ok, if I'm the one who looks like I'm trying to get away, I'm the one who has the control. Now it'll make him come to me' game, and it doesn't work. It drives them further away and drives you crazy in the process.
crazy_grl Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Originally posted by Savannah I have asked him if he wants to break up completely and he says that he doesn't, but he does think that we need a break in order to save our relationship. Well then tell him you think he was right about the break. Just don't expect it to be a way to get him to come running back to you. Use the break as a chance to move on and do things without him. And don't contact him until he contacts you.
Author Savannah Posted June 16, 2005 Author Posted June 16, 2005 He just called me and we talked a little. I told him that I feel that he is trying to push me away and he needs to start trying for me. And then he said that he has been. (I told him that he should clean up for me when I come over and we should start to go out with other people.) So in hindsight, I can see that he has been making a small effort. But I then told him that I am fine with taking a break, but the way things are going, 1. moving out 2. taking a break, the next step is typically a break up. So he said that I will never be happy in this relationship so it would probably be better if we just called it quits. So I said ok. Then there was a lond silence because he wasn't expecting that reaction, he wanted me to cry or argue toget him back or something (I really wanted to). Then after so long of not saying anything, I said that I was going to go. He then said "I love you and I will talk to you later". I didn't know that was something you say after a break up. Even though the words were said, it doesn't feel like we aren't together anymore, it feels like it will just blow over and we will be back together later on this week. But I am not going to pursue it this time.
Author Savannah Posted June 16, 2005 Author Posted June 16, 2005 What if he is thinking the same thing that I am about not contacting me unless I contact him first. Then it's like we are both thinking the same thing, it's just a matter of who gives in first.
moimeme Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 This isn't him though Who else is it? If it wasn't 'him', it wouldn't be happening. And why does he not want to break up with you? Because he wants you handy as a backup for when he happens to feel like going out or having sex but he doesn't want to be 'tied' to you in case something better comes along.
crazy_grl Posted June 16, 2005 Posted June 16, 2005 Well, I don't know if that's exactly the way I would have done it. But only you know how to handle your own relationship. Originally posted by Savannah But I then told him that I am fine with taking a break, but the way things are going, 1. moving out 2. taking a break, the next step is typically a break up. So he said that I will never be happy in this relationship so it would probably be better if we just called it quits. So I said ok. Then there was a lond silence because he wasn't expecting that reaction, he wanted me to cry or argue toget him back or something That's because he expected you to be clingy and give in to him even when he hasn't offered you respect. He's probably started to realize that maybe you're not going to be a push-over. Lately, he's been deliberately pressing your buttons and you did nothing to take a stand, so this time, you surprised him. It sounds like you may have begun to earn his respect back. But the only way you can earn his respect back fully is by respecting yourself enough to focus on other things in your life besides him. Then after so long of not saying anything, I said that I was going to go. He then said "I love you and I will talk to you later". I didn't know that was something you say after a break up. Even though the words were said, it doesn't feel like we aren't together anymore, it feels like it will just blow over and we will be back together later on this week. But I am not going to pursue it this time. It sounds like he doesn't know what he wants. It's good that you're not going to be the one pursuing him. If he decides he wants to be with you, he'll come to you on his own. Going after him will probably send him running the other way. Originally posted by Savannah What if he is thinking the same thing that I am about not contacting me unless I contact him first. Then it's like we are both thinking the same thing, it's just a matter of who gives in first. If that's the case, you two have a major communication problem and too much mutual game playing. You'd be best to just let it go, because that kind of behavior won't last in the long run anyway. I think you're over-thinking it though. Just look at it like this: he needs his space to figure things out and you need yours to deal with the fact that he is pushing away from you and changing. Use this time to reflect on your own behavior that may have led him to take you for granted, read some self-help and relationship books (I recommend 'The Real Rules'), pursue your hobbies, and spend time with your friends. Put him out of your mind as much as possible.
noname Posted June 17, 2005 Posted June 17, 2005 Originally posted by katiebour Just some thoughts here: It is my conclusion that most men under the age of 30 aren't ready for a serious relationship. The human brain doesn't even stop developing until the mid-late 20's; until then, people are still growing up. Don't expect adult behavior from a 21-year old- men mature emotionally at a slower rate than women anyway. There's a reason younger women date older men, and it's not money. no disrespect intended, but this is slightly untrue. the human brain stops developing around 21 (give or take a little time). adult behavior is relative. you may get extremely adult behavior from an 18 year old while a 50 year old is acting like an adolescent. so you can't really expect anything until you deal with the individual. and males mature mentally and emotionally more slowly than women at a younger age. once puberty is over and they enter their twenties, they are pretty much on the same page and the rest is up to experience and observation... there is something else going on with this relationship that needs to be addressed and i think that he would be acting the same if he was forty...
katiebour Posted June 17, 2005 Posted June 17, 2005 "no disrespect intended, but this is slightly untrue. the human brain stops developing around 21 (give or take a little time). adult behavior is relative. you may get extremely adult behavior from an 18 year old while a 50 year old is acting like an adolescent. so you can't really expect anything until you deal with the individual. and males mature mentally and emotionally more slowly than women at a younger age. once puberty is over and they enter their twenties, they are pretty much on the same page and the rest is up to experience and observation... there is something else going on with this relationship that needs to be addressed and i think that he would be acting the same if he was forty..." *Shrug* I'm no expert on brain development, but I recently read in the news: "Researchers examined magnetic resonance imaging scans, or MRIs, of the brains of 13 children over the course of 10 years. Areas of the brain that deal with reasoning and integrating information from the senses - areas like the prefrontal cortex - were among the last to mature. Scientists at the NIH campus in Bethesda, Md., have found that this vital area develops through the teenage years and isn't fully mature until age 25." The full article is here: http://www.desertsunonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050605/NEWS04/506050323 Obviously, you are correct when you say everyone is different, and that younger people can act in a mature manner, while older people can act immaturely. My own experience with men has been that men the same age as myself tend to act proportionately younger. Maybe this is simply because I act older Again, everything I say is my own opinion- I make no claims that it is anything else. As far as the boyfriend goes- I met my ex when I was 21 and he was 22. He had an extremely checkered past- experimenting with drugs, extensive marijuana use, reckless behavior- so on and so forth. By the time I met him, he had left that part of his life behind, and during the three years we were together, we both continued to grow and learn. He is currently a mortgage specialist who just bought his own condo, is a dependable and reliable worker, and a good and caring man. People do grow out of immature, stupid behavior. Of course, emotionally, I was his first long-term relationship, while I had already had another long-term relationship, so his inability to communicate his feelings effectively while we were together could simply have been due to lack of previous experience. In any case, it sounds like Savannah and her boyfriend have called it quits, so it's really a moot point. I guess my main point is that most boys like porn, and I don't think that it's meant as an insult or affront to a woman (again, my opinion.) The drug stuff is disturbing- I personally have a big problem with substance abuse. But, again, my ex grew out of it. In any case, take what you like and leave the rest- after all, it's just my opinion Take care.
ConfusedInOC Posted June 17, 2005 Posted June 17, 2005 Originally posted by Savannah What if he is thinking the same thing that I am about not contacting me unless I contact him first. Then it's like we are both thinking the same thing, it's just a matter of who gives in first. You're still attaching your self worth to his "approval." You need to look within for approval and happiness and stop depending on him to make you happy. Have you read any books on self-confidence?
Athena21 Posted June 17, 2005 Posted June 17, 2005 Last night, he called me and I was out with friends, I am not sure why he called, but I could tell he was drinking and he was upset. I asked him if he felt that he made the right decision in breaking up and he said that it was my decision to do it. He likes to turn things around and place blame on me. I ended up going to his house and he was asleep, so I crawled into bed with him. He didn't notice I was there until this morning. He asked me what I came over for, and I said that I wanted to work things out. So we didn't really talk, we kissed a little and then he walked me out to my car. He said that he would call me in a little bit and we could talk about everything and that it wasn't such a bad surprise that I was there this morning. So he called me and when I asked if he wanted to talk about everything, he said no, so I said that I thought that was the reason he called, and he said "okay, well then I will talk to you later". It was really wierd. Any advice as to why he is acting this way? I know I shouldn't have gone over there, but he said that since I didn't cry or anything when he broke it off, then I obviously wanted it that way, I was just trying to be strong, but he takes it so literally.
katiebour Posted June 17, 2005 Posted June 17, 2005 Savannah- If you care about the man- tell him. Just tell him that you like him, love him, whatever, and that you don't want to break up with him. Don't beat around the bush and make him guess as to what you're thinking. If you can't stand his recent behavior, and/or you don't care about him that much, then break it off. Since you're agonizing over this as much as you are, I'm guessing that you do care about this guy, porn, drugs, or no. Don't ask him if he wants "to talk about things"- just start talking about them. Lay your cards out on the table- tell him what you like, don't like about the relationship, and what your feelings are. Ask him to reciprocate. My guess is that he called you to try and figure out what your thoughts were, and whether or not you still care about him. Honesty is the best policy- although sometimes you don't hear what you want to hear. Good luck.
ConfusedInOC Posted June 17, 2005 Posted June 17, 2005 Originally posted by Athena21 Last night, he called me and I was out with friends, I am not sure why he called, but I could tell he was drinking and he was upset. I asked him if he felt that he made the right decision in breaking up and he said that it was my decision to do it. He likes to turn things around and place blame on me. I ended up going to his house and he was asleep, so I crawled into bed with him. Sigh. That was a bad move.... He didn't notice I was there until this morning. He asked me what I came over for, and I said that I wanted to work things out. So we didn't really talk, we kissed a little and then he walked me out to my car. He said that he would call me in a little bit and we could talk about everything and that it wasn't such a bad surprise that I was there this morning. So he called me and when I asked if he wanted to talk about everything, he said no, so I said that I thought that was the reason he called, and he said "okay, well then I will talk to you later". It was really wierd. Any advice as to why he is acting this way? I know I shouldn't have gone over there, but he said that since I didn't cry or anything when he broke it off, then I obviously wanted it that way, I was just trying to be strong, but he takes it so literally. Yes. He's acting that way because you are proving to him you can not live without him. I tried to explain to you that the RIGHT way to handle someone that wants to pull away as well. You did the worst thing you can do in your situation is try and grab on to him and not let go. You need to read: "Love Must Be Tough" and understand the "singles" advice. Please take the advice to heart and IMPLEMENT it. Don't cling on to this guy as you will surely lose him. I know on the surface this doesn't make sense to you but understand he is feeling "smothered" right now and the only way to change this is to pull back. Take my advice or leave it but you're already seeing the negative results by not listening....
Athena21 Posted June 17, 2005 Posted June 17, 2005 I think that you are the only one actually telling me that it is ok to feel the way that I feel. Everyone else is saying that I shouldn't contact him, when all I want to do is know what's going on with him. If he wants to break up, and I mean really break up, no turning back, then ya I will be hrut but atleast I won't be sitting here thinking about what he's really thinking, thank you.
ConfusedInOC Posted June 17, 2005 Posted June 17, 2005 Originally posted by katiebour Savannah- If you care about the man- tell him. Just tell him that you like him, love him, whatever, and that you don't want to break up with him. Don't beat around the bush and make him guess as to what you're thinking. Why, so she can chase him away for good? He KNOWS she cares about him, that isn't the issue. He wants his space and by telling him this she'll chase him away for good. Her actions speak louder than words. She is telling him "I can't live without you..." when she should be saying "I want to be with you, but I can live without you..." If you can't stand his recent behavior, and/or you don't care about him that much, then break it off. That's exactly what she should be doing. Since you're agonizing over this as much as you are, I'm guessing that you do care about this guy, porn, drugs, or no. It's normal to agonize over it but he doesn't want her to "rescue" him, he just wants her to give him space. Don't ask him if he wants "to talk about things"- just start talking about them. Lay your cards out on the table- tell him what you like, don't like about the relationship, and what your feelings are. Ask him to reciprocate. He's not reciprocating and by forcing an answer from him she will only serve to stick a knife into the heart of the relationship. The ONLY logical move is to back off and relieve the pressure or the "dam will break...." My guess is that he called you to try and figure out what your thoughts were, and whether or not you still care about him. Honesty is the best policy- although sometimes you don't hear what you want to hear. Good luck. If the goal is to move on, then sure, go ahead and press the issue. The answer, I can assure you, will be that he wants to break up. Anyone feeling cornered or pressured into making a decision about a relationship they're already not sure about will most assuredly break it off. Read the book. Talk to a relationship Counselor. But if your goal is to keep him in your life, the only way to do that, believe it or not, is to let him be free to go by backing off and give him space. Don't call, be clingy or otherwise prove to him you can not live without him.....or you will have to.
Recommended Posts