joseb Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 I don't mean to pick on you joseb, but I'm wondering if you can explain your idea of dating casual. For me, the words dating and casual are contradictory. Because I think the devil is in the details, and that's what causes so many people grief in these situations. When I hear the stories of burned women, I think, did the guy lay out his intentions honestly and clearly? Did he actually say- hey let's go out, spend time together and act like a couple, sleep together, etc, for however long we seem to keep enjoying each other....and by the way, don't be mad when I'm doing the same thing with one or two other women. Also I hope you don't mind, in about three months when I decide to call it quits for no particular reason, other than I'm not excited by you anymore. OR is it more like- Hey, you're hot and we should hook up whenever we both happen to mutually agree to do so and then have no other expectations for each other in terms of a relationship, ever. Also, clearly don't mind that I'm hooking up with one or two or four other women who I'm also not too invested in. Don't let that bother you, either. In either case, do women really that often enter into this arrangement willingly? I never have, and I've never known anyone who has. I've yet to know anyone who had a casual relationship that ended well or was worthwhile, so I'm genuinely curious. Hi, I agree with Jabron, I don't think dating and casual are somehow exclusive. Actually, I think a lot more people on here are really dating casually a lot, but because their expressed end game is a long term relationship, even though 95% of these dating periods probably end up being short term, they don't feel like it was ever casual. I see all kind of shallow enough reasons for ending relationships - too much texting, too little texting, too clingy, too independent. Sure, much of dating is finding someone compatible but I really think a lot of people are pretty happy with casual but don't want to call it that, so dress it up. I'm actually trying to be honest and upfront in expressing the fact that I'm not really looking for long term at the moment, for a variety of good reasons, but get called out here as just wanting an escort, being a creep, incapable of love, etc. To answer your question, yes I do tell them upfront that I am trying to avoid a ltr (its on my tinder profile). Based on the way people react to that here and in real life (my mates tell me I'm an idiot for being so upfront) I'm wondering if I am being stupid saying that. There is always a chance I might really fall for someone despite not wanting to, so I could just say I want to see where things go. It's what most guys seem to do in my position.
joseb Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 I don't think I've ever actually looked for a long term relationship in my life. All of them have started from a 'let's see where this goes' attitude. I've had three serious long term relationships, and none of them were 'planned' either. I just fell into them over time.
Author HansonGirl Posted March 31, 2016 Author Posted March 31, 2016 I've had three serious long term relationships, and none of them were 'planned' either. I just fell into them over time. But i bet you didn't say initially that you didn't want a relationship. You were open minded about it and went with the flow most likely. And I realized to titled this thread with the word "casual" but now that i have been thinking about it - I realize that's the wrong terminology. I am only talking about going out with someone when it's been made clear it will NEVER go anywhere. I think every serious relationship begins with a "casual" stage. I would be a liar if I expressed a commitment when i first date someone - because i don't know them well enough yet - even though I am looking for a serious relationship, i've had a couple short-term dating experiences because I was not feeling it with the person. But I guess i still have difficulty comprehending why someone would keep seeing a person ifyou know you don't want a relationship with them - like, to me, that's people i'm not into - why would even bother to hang out with them ever again? unless we were friends ahead of time or something. if i have already decided i don't want a relationship with them, clearly I've made up my mind about this person already. I usually don't waste my time (or the other person's time) if i don't want anything from them. in one situation i've had where the guy rejected me upfront although the guy was being honest about him not wanting a serious romantic relationship with me, and i respected that - he was also being DIShonest because he would not tell me just want he was expecting from me when he kept contacting me and I was not responsive in the way he liked. That's the type of thing I don't care for. I think we've all started dating someone with good intentions, but for whatever reason we just didn't feel the connection or were no longer attracted. Nobody says you need to promise a lifetime at the start. maybe some people disagree. But my point is that it's an entirely different category than what I am talking about!
AMJ Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 Going out, having fun, and getting laid. I don't understand how anyone would find that contradictory. 'Dating' is casual. When I'm in a relationship with someone, I don't consider that 'dating'. I agree with you about the difference between dating and a relationship. But when someone says "casual" to me, I assume that means we're not exclusive. So casual dating=friends with benefits. Yes, or no? Nobody lays out their intentions 'honestly and clearly'. And I don't think it's fair minded to expect the responsibility of this to fall on men's shoulders. Both people are responsible for being honest about their intentions and expectations, in my opinion. The bigger point I'm trying to make, is that when one person feels burned, it could be because the other person wasn't honest. I think typically most people will say "I'm not looking for anything serious" and the other person has no idea what that means, but never bothers to ask. Come on... You've never had reoccurring sex with a guy outside of strict 'exclusive' monogamy before? What do you mean by willingly? And just why is that so hard to believe? Willingly meaning, the girl is totally game on for being just another member on your hook up roster. She is fully aware that she's one out of a few FWBs and does not care, or have any other expectations from you. I don't think I've ever actually looked for a long term relationship in my life. All of them have started from a 'let's see where this goes' attitude. I think this is the best way to date, and I think it's the way most people approach dating. You read it on here all the time, the strategy women have of making certain men 'wait'. My opinion is that it's a bad strategy. It punishes these guys for being relationship material. Using sex as a bargaining chip to gain a relationship, I agree, is ridiculous. Hi, I agree with Jabron, I don't think dating and casual are somehow exclusive. Actually, I think a lot more people on here are really dating casually a lot, but because their expressed end game is a long term relationship, even though 95% of these dating periods probably end up being short term, they don't feel like it was ever casual. I see all kind of shallow enough reasons for ending relationships - too much texting, too little texting, too clingy, too independent. Sure, much of dating is finding someone compatible but I really think a lot of people are pretty happy with casual but don't want to call it that, so dress it up. I'm actually trying to be honest and upfront in expressing the fact that I'm not really looking for long term at the moment, for a variety of good reasons, but get called out here as just wanting an escort, being a creep, incapable of love, etc. To answer your question, yes I do tell them upfront that I am trying to avoid a ltr (its on my tinder profile). Based on the way people react to that here and in real life (my mates tell me I'm an idiot for being so upfront) I'm wondering if I am being stupid saying that. There is always a chance I might really fall for someone despite not wanting to, so I could just say I want to see where things go. It's what most guys seem to do in my position. Oh I didn't mean to suggest that you're doing something wrong. I think you're going about dating just like everyone else. Relationships aren't easy, they require sacrifice, and aren't really worth it unless it's with the right person. You don't want a relationship just for the sake of being in a relationship. I am and always have been the same way. You know that it's possible that a game changer could walk into your life tomorrow, and she would make the sacrifice worth it. So the way you describe casually dating, I agree with, and I don't think you're ever misleading anyone. People hate getting dumped and rejected, so they'll accuse the other person of leading them on or even lying about their intentions from the beginning. The thing is some people DO really lie about their intentions, which is a whole other issue. I think we've all started dating someone with good intentions, but for whatever reason we just didn't feel the connection or were no longer attracted. Nobody says you need to promise a lifetime at the start. maybe some people disagree. But my point is that it's an entirely different category than what I am talking about! Agree completely. Anyway to answer your question about pursuing dead-end relationships, I do know of three couples who ended up married after going through shenanigans like this. I'm pretty certain at least one of them will stay married, but anything is possible.
Daisy-oliviaWentcher Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 Amen on the last sentence I agree 100000% All I can say is please don't do it hansongirl it hurts like crazy bring thrown away like a chewing gum. It does damage your self esteem thinking you're not good for a relationship!!! I learnt the hard way but I'm over my ex fwb now, if he ever tries getting in touch, I would tell him to go and suck on a pig lol yup they have no remorse. No care in the world if they hurt your feelings. And for some psychopaths out there, they probably enjoy it and enjoy treating you badly. In my experience, my FWB did not care if he hurt my feelings, but took great offense when i hurt his ego! So hard in fact that he made damn well sure, that I knew he had some claim to me, and some form of entitlement. My version of Christian Grey. But of course when I moved to another country, yes another country, he facebook question was, Why didn't you **** me before you left? like I owed him something. When I came back he found out by messaging me after message after message, saying " you're ignoring me now, but you'll come crawling back". Well he understood the message loud and clear when I called the police and contacted the mother of his children to tell her exactly what was going on, who also rang him up to tell him what was happening ( He didn't know that I knew his ex). It scared him ****less. And so it should have. I grew angry of being single, feeling unattractive and less desirable than my coupled friends who use to have casual flings in between boyfriends. I thought that in order to feel all those feelings of desirability at least have a FWB situation. Better than feeling lonely and better than feeling empty. It just made me feel emptier. I felt even more undesirable and even more lonelier. I really wanted a boyfriend but I felt that I would never be able to get one. I am still super scared of rejection, and I still think all the woman of the world are 100 percent prettier than I am, and can get boyfriends really easy because they are prettier. But that isn't true. My head plays tricks on me from time to time. My FWB just flared my insecurities and left me scarred and left me comparing more woman to myself. I have actually had men interested in me since. It is something that has really been a surprising reality considering I'm not a size four and use to date men who liked those kinda woman. But what has damaged me, is believing that within 12 and a half years of singleness and four FWB boyfriends later, there is still that fear, those fears, those lingering fears of rejection, pain, fear, abandonment and self-loathing. The FWB's didn't create those issues in me, but they did perpetuate them and pour salt on those wounds. I am lucky to have boyfriend now, but at times, I am petrified that he will reject me and start to fall in love with someone leaner and more gorgeous. And those times of singleness has only made me feel more ridiculously insecure and inferior. Don't allow someone to use you and dispose of you. They know what they are doing. They don't care how you feel or how hurt you'll get. A FWB is a selfish, emotionless exchange of bodies, that's all. It will not make you feel more powerful or in charge. It will extract something from you, and end up making you feel less worthy than ever before. Don't do it. Wait out on true love. It's worth the wait even though the wait is a incredibly, incredibly painful process best of luck
joseb Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 yup they have no remorse. No care in the world if they hurt your feelings. And for some psychopaths out there, they probably enjoy it and enjoy treating you badly. I'm not sure what kind of guys you have met, but from my experience FWB relationships have had a lot less drama and crazy behaviour than my ltrs - no cheating, no attacking me with a weapon, no gaslighting and trying to make me go crazy. That was all in the Long term ones. I thought that in order to feel all those feelings of desirability at least have a FWB situation. Better than feeling lonely and better than feeling empty. It just made me feel emptier. I felt even more undesirable and even more lonelier. I really wanted a boyfriend but I felt that I would never be able to get one. If you go looking to fill a gap and stop to feel lonely, then you are going into relationships (all relationships) for the wrong reason. and four FWB boyfriends later, So you found FWB so bad that you decided to enter into three more of them? What was your thought process around this? 1
ASG Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 Don't allow someone to use you and dispose of you. They know what they are doing. They don't care how you feel or how hurt you'll get. A FWB is a selfish, emotionless exchange of bodies, that's all. It will not make you feel more powerful or in charge. It will extract something from you, and end up making you feel less worthy than ever before. Don't do it. Wait out on true love. It's worth the wait even though the wait is a incredibly, incredibly painful process best of luck Hmm... that's not entirely true. None of my FWBs have ever not cared. Current one, about a year ago, told me straight away that he was thinking of getting back together with his ex and that he wouldn't be available to hang out anymore. Sincere and to the point. It sucked a little bit, but I was glad he told me. He didn't do i to hurt me. He didn't want to leave me hanging. Most my other FWBs reached a natural end. At one point we just kinda stopped hanging out. But it never made me feel less than. Current FWB got back in touch as soon as things with the ex crashed and burned a few months down the line. I consider him a good friend. He doesn't "take" anything from me, nor I from him. It is a mutually beneficial relationship. 1
iphone_user1 Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 Hmm... that's not entirely true. None of my FWBs have ever not cared. Current one, about a year ago, told me straight away that he was thinking of getting back together with his ex and that he wouldn't be available to hang out anymore. Sincere and to the point. It sucked a little bit, but I was glad he told me. He didn't do i to hurt me. He didn't want to leave me hanging. Most my other FWBs reached a natural end. At one point we just kinda stopped hanging out. But it never made me feel less than. Current FWB got back in touch as soon as things with the ex crashed and burned a few months down the line. I consider him a good friend. He doesn't "take" anything from me, nor I from him. It is a mutually beneficial relationship. Yes, actually I'm good friends with most of my FWBs. I think it is because I'm sincere and say what I'm looking for in order to make them know where they are standing. So pretty much it is like you, at one point we just stop hanging out, but I do consider them good friends in the end.
Jabron1 Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 I agree with you about the difference between dating and a relationship. But when someone says "casual" to me, I assume that means we're not exclusive. So casual dating=friends with benefits. Yes, or no? I let women define the relationship. Whether they they want to call it 'casual' or 'friends with benefits', or if they want more, is up to them. Both people are responsible for being honest about their intentions and expectations, in my opinion. The bigger point I'm trying to make, is that when one person feels burned, it could be because the other person wasn't honest. I think typically most people will say "I'm not looking for anything serious" and the other person has no idea what that means, but never bothers to ask. I think 'I'm not looking for anything serious' is pretty clear. And just why is that so hard to believe? Willingly meaning, the girl is totally game on for being just another member on your hook up roster. She is fully aware that she's one out of a few FWBs and does not care, or have any other expectations from you. It's hard to believe, because women get propositioned all the time. If she's another 'member of my hookup roster', then I'm another 'option for her hypergamy'. When we really take away all the bullsh*t, there are no victims – and no point in being bitter. Just people getting their needs met, and different sexual strategies between genders. Joseb earlier took issue with a couple of the women likening casual relationships to guys 'wanting an escort' - an oversimplification. Men's sexuality is just easier to understand, and therefore easier to criticise. I think this is the best way to date, and I think it's the way most people approach dating. I don't think that it is the way most people approach dating though. And a lot of the posts here can attest to that.
Jabron1 Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 Yes, actually I'm good friends with most of my FWBs. I think it is because I'm sincere and say what I'm looking for in order to make them know where they are standing. So pretty much it is like you, at one point we just stop hanging out, but I do consider them good friends in the end. The problem with that idea is that sex changes things. You really telling me that you treat your 'friends with benefits' the same way that you treat your male mates, and hold them to the same standards? I don't Therefore it isn't really 'friends'.
AMJ Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 I let women define the relationship. Whether they they want to call it 'casual' or 'friends with benefits', or if they want more, is up to them. You let women define the relationship always? That goes against being an alpha or any of your other rules, doesn't it? It's hard to believe, because women get propositioned all the time. If she's another 'member of my hookup roster', then I'm another 'option for her hypergamy'. I don't understand what you mean. Hypergamy? When we really take away all the bullsh*t, there are no victims – and no point in being bitter. Just people getting their needs met, and different sexual strategies between genders. Joseb earlier took issue with a couple of the women likening casual relationships to guys 'wanting an escort' - an oversimplification. Men's sexuality is just easier to understand, and therefore easier to criticise. No victims and no point being bitter...maybe, but then, why are people (typically women) always bitter about these situations?
elaine567 Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 You read it on here all the time, the strategy women have of making certain men 'wait'. My opinion is that it's a bad strategy. It punishes these guys for being relationship material. Nothing I say is really going to change anything though . Just an opinion. I agree it is a bad strategy and waiting a year is madness, but I do agree with Swytch, men in general do tend to judge women based on how "easy" they are, so keeping a man waiting for sex, is the obvious solution, for any woman wanting to be taken seriously by a man. But it doesn't always work.
Jabron1 Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 You let women define the relationship always? That goes against being an alpha or any of your other rules, doesn't it? Nope. Like I said earlier, I make the approach; I plan and pay for dates; and I take responsibility for physical side of things. I expect the woman to take responsibility for the relationship side of things. I don't understand what you mean. Hypergamy? Urban Dictionary: hypergamy No victims and no point being bitter...maybe, but then, why are people (typically women) always bitter about these situations? Naivety and inexperience.
Jabron1 Posted March 31, 2016 Posted March 31, 2016 I agree it is a bad strategy and waiting a year is madness, but I do agree with Swytch, men in general do tend to judge women based on how "easy" they are, so keeping a man waiting for sex, is the obvious solution, for any woman wanting to be taken seriously by a man. But it doesn't always work. Personally, I don't judge a woman on how 'easy' she is. I'm not sure whether other guys really do that or not. Men do judge a woman based on how many sexual partners she's had. And I think that how 'easy' she is might come into that - with certain idiot men thinking that is some kind of indication of promiscuity, when it isn't. That's a fairly long video, but I'll check it out when I've got more time. 1
AMJ Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 Personally, I don't judge a woman on how 'easy' she is. I'm not sure whether other guys really do that or not. Men do judge a woman based on how many sexual partners she's had. And I think that how 'easy' she is might come into that - with certain idiot men thinking that is some kind of indication of promiscuity, when it isn't. That's a fairly long video, but I'll check it out when I've got more time. I know lots of guys who judge a woman negatively for having sex really soon. Can we not assume that someone who has sex with a new partner very quickly also has a lot of partners? Granted, what is "a lot of partners" and what is "very quickly" are relative.
iphone_user1 Posted April 1, 2016 Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) The problem with that idea is that sex changes things. You really telling me that you treat your 'friends with benefits' the same way that you treat your male mates, and hold them to the same standards? I don't Therefore it isn't really 'friends'. Oh, hell no there's always this I-don't-know-what-to-call-it-but-I-like you thing How do you personally think sex changes things? Edited April 1, 2016 by iphone_user1
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