xxoo Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 With all the bull**** of drugs everywhere, her peers getting knocked up left and right, and the fact her mom chose her then boyfriend over her own child when she was born and routinely blames her for a "**** life"; I am damn impressed at what she has been able to pull off in her life. So excuse me when I believe she has a better head on her shoulders than most. As a parent of a teen, I'm know a lot of teens. I don't know a lot of "drugs everywhere" and "getting knocked up left and right". The kids I know make age expected mistakes, but they are on the right track, going to college, working toward a future. What she really needs is to connect with age peers like that. Going from peers getting drugged and pregnant to dating a 30 year old is from the frying pan into the fire.
serial muse Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Sorry that I love someone who you feel I shouldn't love? I've stated before I've tried dating ladies my own age, and what I've found, for my current demographic, that a large portion in my area currently have things I don't want: fallout from divorce, children from previous relationships, saddled with debt, etc. The ones that DON'T have these things are typically already married or in LTR's. The population density here is low. She may have baggage, however, the way she handles it says a lot about her character, and that it's made her a stronger person as opposed to the type of baggage that I've previously mentioned that only drag people down. If you want to head towards a personal attack on that instead of the ideas around age difference dating, then go right ahead, but remember it becomes accusatory finger pointing which doesn't really foster any kind of healthy discourse. OK, but you don't know these older women who you say have been married and have debt and I guess are therefore beaten down by life rather than handling it well, and you're painting a whole lot of people with a broad brush. It's fine and understandable to defend one person with whom you've got a strong connection, and if you aren't looking to date other people right now because you're into her, that's understandable too. But it's when you go this route - suggesting that you don't want to date single older women in your area because they're all saddled with debt and other assorted baggage -- that you're going to get a lot of pushback, and rightly so! It suggests strongly that you're selectively looking for reasons to support a decision you've already made by insulting a whole lot of people you've never met -- and frankly it then turns a discussion about your personal one-on-one relationship with a specific person into a referendum on older women in general, and that is SO. TIRESOME. (And frankly it does once again call your motives into question, IMO.) You don't actually need to do that, you know. You can always just say you're into this person without suggesting that nobody in your age bracket is worthwhile. This is a common theme on LS and it's one that people are far too glib about, what with the "fertility" arguments and "baggage" arguments. Yeah, no. LW got heat for his post, even from people who otherwise don't see an issue with your situation. There's a very very very good reason for that. Edited March 24, 2016 by serial muse 2
Author PaperCrane Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 As a parent of a teen, I'm know a lot of teens. I don't know a lot of "drugs everywhere" and "getting knocked up left and right". The kids I know make age expected mistakes, but they are on the right track, going to college, working toward a future. What she really needs is to connect with age peers like that. Going from peers getting drugged and pregnant to dating a 30 year old is from the frying pan into the fire. Good observations, and probably what her mother would like as well. The friends my girlfriend has are good people with future forward mentalities. The peers I mention are former classmates, friends or acquaintance of others, and people she has on her social media. Just because she knows of these people, doesn't mean she spends any amount of quality time with them. I just don't equate spending time with someone older, who has their **** together financially, has a career, where my stability means I'm flexible, and tries his utmost to treat her well as going from being in an age peer group (former classmates) with people making bad decisions to something worse. That's just me I guess.
xxoo Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Good observations, and probably what her mother would like as well. The friends my girlfriend has are good people with future forward mentalities. The peers I mention are former classmates, friends or acquaintance of others, and people she has on her social media. Just because she knows of these people, doesn't mean she spends any amount of quality time with them. I just don't equate spending time with someone older, who has their **** together financially, has a career, where my stability means I'm flexible, and tries his utmost to treat her well as going from being in an age peer group (former classmates) with people making bad decisions to something worse. That's just me I guess. If her peer friends are good people, why the concern about all the drugs and pregnancy among peers she doesn't even spend time with?? You set up the dichotomy of date this or date that, but obviously she has other choices available. Why isn't she interested in dating someone her age? When you criticize single women in their 30s due to choices they made when young, consider that the choices your 18 yo girlfriend his making (dating much older men) will likely land her in the same spot at 30.
Author PaperCrane Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 OK, but you don't know these older women who you say have been married and have debt and I guess are therefore beaten down by life rather than handling it well, and you're painting a whole lot of people with a broad brush. It's fine and understandable to defend one person with whom you've got a strong connection, and if you aren't looking to date other people right now because you're into her, that's understandable too. But it's when you go this route - suggesting that you don't want to date single older women in your area because they're all saddled with debt and other assorted baggage -- that you're going to get a lot of pushback, and rightly so! It suggests strongly that you're selectively looking for reasons to support a decision you've already made by insulting a whole lot of people you've never met -- and frankly it then turns a discussion about your personal one-on-one relationship with a specific person into a referendum on older women in general, and that is SO. TIRESOME. (And frankly it does once again call your motives into question, IMO.) You don't actually need to do that, you know. You can always just say you're into this person without suggesting that nobody in your age bracket is worthwhile. This is a common theme on LS and it's one that people are far too glib about, what with the "fertility" arguments and "baggage" arguments. Yeah, no. LW got heat for his post, even from people who otherwise don't see an issue with your situation. There's a very very very good reason for that. I'm not saying all women my age have this issue, and totally agree that broad brushstrokes often are the wrong way to approach things, however, many in my area do. Coincidentally people who date younger are being painted very broadly as well. Many of the women I found on OLD and out and about, when the dates or talking happened these factors came out which were simply deal-breakers for me. Some were completely free of these and yet I didn't feel any compelling pull towards them. It's just how it is sometimes and is inherent in the gambit of dating. This person with whom I'm with I found a connection with before I could find a connection with someone else. That's how it rolled out. What I'm finding is that I'm vilified for this happening. That in some way I need to have 'tried harder' before accepting any type of connection outside of my 'age +/- 3 or whatever happens to be the acceptable number' happening, and honestly that's utterly tiring to hear as well. I don't feel like I should have to have some dating pedigree to have that pass to date someone who happens to be younger. Like I've had to try absolutely everyone in my area first. If women feel offended because of what my deal-breakers are, the circumstances around my dating life, and the experiences I've had, well then that feeling of offense is on them, not me.
Author PaperCrane Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 If her peer friends are good people, why the concern about all the drugs and pregnancy among peers she doesn't even spend time with?? You set up the dichotomy of date this or date that, but obviously she has other choices available. Why isn't she interested in dating someone her age? When you criticize single women in their 30s due to choices they made when young, consider that the choices your 18 yo girlfriend his making (dating much older men) will likely land her in the same spot at 30. Because it falls into a statistical range for the current time period. Typically people growing up in a single parent home or unstable household are more likely to be exposed to and use drugs, have teen pregnancies, drop out of school, etc. The connection I'm making is that even with these statistical factors against her, she still makes good and sound decisions in her life. The pressures that certain things, such as an extended social group and household, have on someone can influence their decisions. Her desire to succeed and having a good future have always been at her forefront. This shows me that her personal character and outlook on life is something I can connect with. For the record I feel that if decisions were made by someone when they were younger, and those decisions mean my life would become more difficult if I dated them, those then become issues and sometimes deal-breakers. I don't personally criticize them, it simply puts them in a group that I would not date.
kgcolonel Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 OP, I have not read each and every post here but i have not seen anything that addresses something that would concern me as a parent and might concern you if you truly care about this young lady..... Personal experience: I had a longterm GF during and 2 yrs after highschool...we were exclusive etc. What i did not think about at the time but should have is that I, by being older (4 years) was that I was cheating her out of the learning experiences, the dating experiences and all the other experiences one has the benefit of as they proceed through that particular stage of life. She never wanted anything different either however at that age, what we "want" and what is good for us is often two different things. You are in that same position. Here your 18 yo gf is not fully developed emotionally or mentally...the dough is still soft if you will. Having you to lean on, to guide her both emotionally and romantically will cause her to skip some of the learning experiences that are needed for one to become a whole person. There is a strong possibility you are as much a "father figure" as a romantic partner.... If she were 25 and more fully developed with life experiences and better equipped with the tools to handle life....this would not be such an issue, the responsibility is on you as the more "mature" individual to do the right thing and allow this "child" to develop the tools needed to manage her way through life. Right now she very likely feels "grown up' have a bf your age etc....this is the "easy route" for her allowing her to skip many of the learning lessons one normally receives benefit from in life. If i were her father, i too would strongly disagree with the relationship. I would also ask what a 30 something year old many has in common with a child at 18??? Music? Friends? She can't go out with you for a glass of wine, she's too young to drink....please think of her and her well being and be the mature adult here and step back, give her the room to develop the life tools for a successful life. 1
sandylee1 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 OP Although I wouldn't want my daughter at 18 dating a 30 year old ... I'm feeling a bit of sympathy for you here, because I don't think you have any bad intentions towards her. You do seem like a genuine kind of guy, but one thing that perplexes me.. is that you didn't think of the reasons her mother wouldn't be happy about the relationship before so many pointed it out to you. I would have thought the reasons were obvious..... I don't know if you have to be a parent to know that they would be concerned about it. Like many here at 18 ... I thought 30 was pretty old and I think that's normal thinking at that age. Perhaps your GF is about 6 years older mentally and you're a young at heart kind of guy... so you meet in the middle. What do your friends and family think of the age gap? 1
serial muse Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) I'm not saying all women my age have this issue, and totally agree that broad brushstrokes often are the wrong way to approach things, however, many in my area do. Coincidentally people who date younger are being painted very broadly as well. Many of the women I found on OLD and out and about, when the dates or talking happened these factors came out which were simply deal-breakers for me. Some were completely free of these and yet I didn't feel any compelling pull towards them. It's just how it is sometimes and is inherent in the gambit of dating. This person with whom I'm with I found a connection with before I could find a connection with someone else. That's how it rolled out. What I'm finding is that I'm vilified for this happening. That in some way I need to have 'tried harder' before accepting any type of connection outside of my 'age +/- 3 or whatever happens to be the acceptable number' happening, and honestly that's utterly tiring to hear as well. I don't feel like I should have to have some dating pedigree to have that pass to date someone who happens to be younger. Like I've had to try absolutely everyone in my area first. If women feel offended because of what my deal-breakers are, the circumstances around my dating life, and the experiences I've had, well then that feeling of offense is on them, not me. Sure. But again, this is not what you wrote in this thread, and this thread is all we can really know about you. As for the rest, I already said that it's one thing to defend your singular connection to a singular person, and that you don't need to suggest that all other women in your area are unsuitable because of baggage. That you're now acknowledging that this isn't actually the case is great, but sure, it has already tainted the picture. I'm just saying that you have the power to tell your own story however you want. If you want it to be about an older guy who's giving a younger girl the benefit of his life experience and wisdom, and who rejects single women his own age because he thinks they all have debts and exes swirling around them like flies on PigPen, then OK. But you could also just paint it as, I really really like her and I just want her mom to give me a chance, how should I approach this. It's baffling to me when people have to go the other way. There are legitimate reasons for parents to worry about their teenaged kids -- even 18 year olds -- dating people considerably older. It's nonsense to call you a pedophile. But it's not nonsense to worry about power imbalances and life experience imbalances. Whether those will become too cumbersome in your relationship, or are a non-issue, is hard to say. But there's nothing wrong with taking a moment to ask yourself, "am I kind of liking the idea of being dominant/older/giver of wisdom", which is not unlike a father figure, and then wonder whether that's a solid basis for a relationship with a girl who has never had one and has had an unstable childhood. People have wondered about that because of something you said way back on page one - so it's not like this has been plucked out of thin air, or people's darkest fears. Edited March 24, 2016 by serial muse 2
whichwayisup Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 I don't understand this desire to call adults children. She votes, works, owns her car, pays her bills, pays her rent, and truthfully that's more than I can say for many 'adults' that seem to inhabit this world. I wouldn't call an 18 year old a 'child' but I certainly wouldn't call them an adult either. Teenager - A mixture of both. Doesn't have life experience and still growing up, gaining more responsibilities as life goes on. Just remember YOU ARE the adult in this not her. You know better overall than she does. At 18 I thought I knew it all, looking back I knew nothing. Keep that in mind. 2
Summer3 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 PaperCrane, You've come here for support about this relationship but I think the overwhelming majority view this as a bad idea. If you want to be with this girl and she wants to be with you then you'll both be together. Personally, I think you're too old for her. I don't think you're a pedophile but I don't think you're an appropriate boyfriend either. 1
Author PaperCrane Posted March 24, 2016 Author Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) OP Although I wouldn't want my daughter at 18 dating a 30 year old ... I'm feeling a bit of sympathy for you here, because I don't think you have any bad intentions towards her. You do seem like a genuine kind of guy, but one thing that perplexes me.. is that you didn't think of the reasons her mother wouldn't be happy about the relationship before so many pointed it out to you. I would have thought the reasons were obvious..... I don't know if you have to be a parent to know that they would be concerned about it. Like many here at 18 ... I thought 30 was pretty old and I think that's normal thinking at that age. Perhaps your GF is about 6 years older mentally and you're a young at heart kind of guy... so you meet in the middle. What do your friends and family think of the age gap? I totally agree with this. I would have my reservations as well. I can appreciate a parents worry, although I am not one. It is possible that perhaps some of the more heated comments had put me on a defensive stance in my replies and thus my wording doesn't really reflect the nature I was truly trying to express. In earnest I've given attempts to try and meet on middle ground somewhere with the mom, mostly hoping through how I treat her daughter that she can see my intentions. I planned as many have said, that through time she may warm to it, however as in my OP, the Easter dinner invitation has caused a big turn of events. I feel it would be incredibly rude of me to turn down the invitation, but it also adds a lot of pressure in where I have to meet almost all of her close family; mother, moms boyfriend, grandparents, great grandmother, and cousins all in one swoop. Time is no longer much of a factor now, there is no warming up period, the water is set to boil and into it I go and I want to show them all how much she means to me and really put my best foot forward. They are her family after all and they deserve the respect I want to put forth, however I do have a fear of things going tipsy turvy. So I do understand the concern, I really do, and it does make me sad because I understand how men my age can be seen as advantage takers without regard to the partners well being. It puts extra pressure on me because each action is under a microscope, and understandably so. As for my friends and family, they all seem happy for me, and I don't really have a cause to doubt what they say. Their concern mostly lies with how her college demands, as they get tougher over time, may impact the relationship and caution me to be extra mindful of her needs during that time. Sure. But again, this is not what you wrote in this thread, and this thread is all we can really know about you. As for the rest, I already said that it's one thing to defend your singular connection to a singular person, and that you don't need to suggest that all other women in your area are unsuitable because of baggage. That you're now acknowledging that this isn't actually the case is great, but sure, it has already tainted the picture. I'm just saying that you have the power to tell your own story however you want. If you want it to be about an older guy who's giving a younger girl the benefit of his life experience and wisdom, and who rejects single women his own age because he thinks they all have debts and exes swirling around them like flies on PigPen, then OK. But you could also just paint it as, I really really like her and I just want her mom to give me a chance, how should I approach this. It's baffling to me when people have to go the other way. There are legitimate reasons for parents to worry about their teenaged kids -- even 18 year olds -- dating people considerably older. It's nonsense to call you a pedophile. But it's not nonsense to worry about power imbalances and life experience imbalances. Whether those will become too cumbersome in your relationship, or are a non-issue, is hard to say. But there's nothing wrong with taking a moment to ask yourself, "am I kind of liking the idea of being dominant/older/giver of wisdom", which is not unlike a father figure, and then wonder whether that's a solid basis for a relationship with a girl who has never had one and has had an unstable childhood. People have wondered about that because of something you said way back on page one - so it's not like this has been plucked out of thin air, or people's darkest fears. I enjoyed that post very much, thank you for taking the time to write that. I bolded some parts I felt important, and perhaps you worded it much more succinctly and better than I originally did. My word choice in the OP did have some frustration behind them, and because of this it is probable that the idea I was trying to convey didn't quite come out in the best was possible. What I was attempting to put out there, is that in an event where she comes to me for advice I can offer what I know I've personally been through, what I think I could have done differently and what those differences could have had on the outcome. All her decisions are her own, I merely thought it as a positive to have someone with some extra experience on their side and their best interest in mind giving that advice. Normally yes, a person would go to their parents or other family for this kind of thing, but sometimes a person will ask their partners thoughts on the matter, and in those circumstances I felt it may be a positive for the reasons stated. Edited March 24, 2016 by PaperCrane
jen1447 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 fwiw PC, I'm pretty familiar w/wearing the mantle of exploiter or advantage-taker. Quite a few of my GFs' parents and others over the years have assumed I was using their innocent little daughters (if they only knew lol) for temporary sexual gratification and tricking them along the way. Some of course articulated that more than others ....one of my current GF's mothers is still standoffish w/me even tho I've put significant time in by now. Eh. Point of mentioning that is that I've found it's usually not a battle worth fighting. I'm perfectly fine w/keeping family at arms length or having no relationship w/them if that's what they want. I agree that in your case it'd be rude to turn down the invite but I hope you realize that simply not playing a part is an option if they insist on treating you like a 'predator.'
sandylee1 Posted March 24, 2016 Posted March 24, 2016 Yes..... I can see how you'll be under additional pressure. It's like they'll be watching out for a wrong move from you. They'll hold you to a much higher standard than a boy her own age. If you ever argue and she gets upset and tells mom ... it'll be like.. " what's this man done to my little girl"..... I totally understand the pressure. I once felt that way meeting a BFs parents ... because I shared a house with a couple of other girls and he still lived at home ... I was 19..he was 20. I could do what I wanted as I had left home to go to Uni. His mother might have thought I was a bad influence or something ... living alone/not with parents. She didn't want him sleeping the night at my place.. because it would send the wrong message to his younger sister... knowing she'd said that to him made me quite nervous meeting her and the family. I was glad when that visit ended. I never went back. Be yourself is all you can do. Don't be false because they'll probably see right through it. Sometimes girls /women go for older guys because they treat them better .... their protective (not in a controlling way) over them and make them feel safe. Who knows. I mean the 12 years isn't so much the issue.. as her age. If it was 30 and 42.. it doesn't sound quite as bad. I want to say I hope it goes well for you...... but in my mind I know if it was my daughter I'd be very distressed about it all. But...good luck anyway and have a great Easter.
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