Liam1 Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Hi Original poster: I need to correct part of my post: This paragraph read: At that (counseling) session, my wife said she would NOT have preferred that I simply came home and handed her divorce papers. She said that would have definitely been far more attractive than me having sex with a woman I did not love. the word attractive should have read DESTRUCTIVE. In other words my wife claims she would have been far more devastated had I just one day come home and asked for a divorce. Sorry, the spell check in my text edit changed it. Hi OP: I haven't read the entire thread. But two things concern me regarding your wife. One: You were afraid to tell your wife you were laid off. Why? Does this hae something to do with your wife's expected reaction to your lay off, or you? Why did you feel she would not support you as a good wife should, when you were down? Is she very punitive, dismissive, does she denigrate you put you down and generally act disrespectful toward you? Two: Your wife refuses to go to counseling. This is a red flag to me. This is very disrespectful, if she wants to truly reconcile, and not very productive. Why does she refuse counseling? Is she afraid to confront her own issues and her part in what led you two lie to her about being laid off and to later, when depressed, seek an affair from another woman. You say you are in hell and hopeless. Without good infidelity counseling this will likely not resolve because your wife will continue to blame only you without ever looking at herself and her contribution to the marriage. If the reconciliation is to be successful your wife needs to at some point stop continually discussing the affair non-stop. My counselor told her after about a month that she had to limit discussions about the affair to a half hour per day. Any more than that was not healthy the counselor said. After a few years, the counselor told her she had to stop bringing up the affair at all, if she wanted the reconciliation to work. With that said, some marriages can not survive an affair no matter what the Wayward spouse does or no matter how good they are going forward because the loyal spouse is too self righteous. They use the affair as a weapon against the wayward and constantly beat the wayward over the head with it as a way to get the upper hand in every marital dispute, going forward. If that is the case, some people are better off just realizing things are hopeless and moving on. In the early days after DDay, my wife was constantly going over the details and starting fights. It was making me feel hopeless, too. I offered my wife a divorce, but she did not want a divorce. So I moved out for awhile to give her spouse and to see if she truly wanted to stay with me. She missed me and asked me to come back. Had she not showed that she missed me, I would have filed. The other thing that truly turned things around was when the counselor said to my wife: "You are both attractive, self sufficient people. You can both likely easily find someone else to marry. Then she looked at my wife and said. Would you have preferred that you husband had simply come home one day and asked for a divorce. She told my wife to think about it until the next session. At that session, my wife said she would NOT have preferred that I simply came home and handed her divorce papers. She said that would have definitely been far more attractive than me having sex with a woman I did not love.
Author ShamefulPig Posted March 21, 2016 Author Posted March 21, 2016 Hi OP: I haven't read the entire thread. But two things concern me regarding your wife. One: You were afraid to tell your wife you were laid off. Why? Does this hae something to do with your wife's expected reaction to your lay off, or you? Why did you feel she would not support you as a good wife should, when you were down? Is she very punitive, dismissive, does she denigrate you put you down and generally act disrespectful toward you? Two: Your wife refuses to go to counseling. This is a red flag to me. This is very disrespectful, if she wants to truly reconcile, and not very productive. Why does she refuse counseling? Is she afraid to confront her own issues and her part in what led you two lie to her about being laid off and to later, when depressed, seek an affair from another woman. You say you are in hell and hopeless. Without good infidelity counseling this will likely not resolve because your wife will continue to blame only you without ever looking at herself and her contribution to the marriage. If the reconciliation is to be successful your wife needs to at some point stop continually discussing the affair non-stop. My counselor told her after about a month that she had to limit discussions about the affair to a half hour per day. Any more than that was not healthy the counselor said. After a few years, the counselor told her she had to stop bringing up the affair at all, if she wanted the reconciliation to work. With that said, some marriages can not survive an affair no matter what the Wayward spouse does or no matter how good they are going forward because the loyal spouse is too self righteous. They use the affair as a weapon against the wayward and constantly beat the wayward over the head with it as a way to get the upper hand in every marital dispute, going forward. If that is the case, some people are better off just realizing things are hopeless and moving on. In the early days after DDay, my wife was constantly going over the details and starting fights. It was making me feel hopeless, too. I offered my wife a divorce, but she did not want a divorce. So I moved out for awhile to give her spouse and to see if she truly wanted to stay with me. She missed me and asked me to come back. Had she not showed that she missed me, I would have filed. The other thing that truly turned things around was when the counselor said to my wife: "You are both attractive, self sufficient people. You can both likely easily find someone else to marry. Then she looked at my wife and said. Would you have preferred that you husband had simply come home one day and asked for a divorce. She told my wife to think about it until the next session. At that session, my wife said she would NOT have preferred that I simply came home and handed her divorce papers. She said that would have definitely been far more attractive than me having sex with a woman I did not love. Thanks for the reply but I can't blame my wife for me choosing to have an A. She has been great to me and was waiting for me to come home during the holiday week. She didn't even have dinner cause she was so excited to pick me up at the airport and this is how I crush her. It's killing me to think about this. I am so sorry for her and I will spend the rest of my life regretting those decisions. As for not telling my wife about being laid off. I didn't tell anyone. I felt ashamed for some reason. My work was part of my identity. Part of my success and how I felt valued. I felt ashamed and embarrassed for some reason. My wife has always had my back and would have supported me and comforted me but I chose not to let her for some stupid reason. As for the hell i'm in now. Yes, it's been hell but she wouldn't be behaving this way if it wasn't for me. Yes, the 8 to 12+ hours of interrogating and questioning and blaming and pain and anger everyday is very exhausting but this is the consequences I must live with. I'll see if we can continue to go to counseling since so many on here recommend it. Maybe we can try a few difference ones for different view points. 4
Author ShamefulPig Posted March 21, 2016 Author Posted March 21, 2016 I also think the zoo date was great . . . she's been having a hard time even getting out of bed, so it's a good thing that she's showing motivation to do fun things. I view every positive experience and interaction as a drop in the bucket. Eventually you notice that your bucket is a lot fuller than it was before. Obviously a single date or gift or vacation isn't going to fix everything, which you already know. But every positive thing you do with each other helps you reconnect, create new memories, remember who you are and why you fell in love, etc. It's also something tangible you can give your wife while she's feeling like the OW stole something from her . . . well, the OW didn't get all these special memories with you. You mentioned reading After the Affair. We read that one first too, but I much prefer How to Help Your Spouse Heal After an Affair (super short read) and Not Just Friends (a long read but very thorough and insightful). I have already read "how To help your spouse heal" and unfortunately I'm off to a very rocky start since I didn't come clean right away. I lied and lied to cover things up like a coward. I had already ruined our innocent and I would have never felt the same way inside. Wish I had the courage to just come clean when she found out and saved her from further pain and trauma. It's literally been so up and down. ONe minute she's hugging me and we are crying. Literally the next minute she wants to let her anger out on me and be the sh^t out of me. I can't blame her as I want to do the same. . It's so hard to look forward to each day now. I'm just wondering how everyone got through such hell. I know I need to remain strong and remain committed but sometimes it seems like losing hope is the easier path for both of us. I refuse to think so and will do what i can. 1
Author ShamefulPig Posted March 21, 2016 Author Posted March 21, 2016 Today's Update: Last night I started cooking one of our favorite dishes that takes a day to prep for tonight. SHe worte me a note saying how much she missed me working in the kitchen and she was waiting for me to pick that up again but her happiness is gone now. I'm so miserable that I could do this to our innocent lives. This morning the biggest struggle we are facing is she is asking me how I could choose the AP over her. How I could consciously make that decision to satisfy the OW and destroy everything we had and to destroy her. I know that is what I did but I can't explain how and why I would do such a thing. It's really just too much for us to handle. I'm devastated at this pain and grief I have caused. 1
Satu Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 Today's Update: Last night I started cooking one of our favorite dishes that takes a day to prep for tonight. SHe worte me a note saying how much she missed me working in the kitchen and she was waiting for me to pick that up again but her happiness is gone now. I'm so miserable that I could do this to our innocent lives. This morning the biggest struggle we are facing is she is asking me how I could choose the AP over her. How I could consciously make that decision to satisfy the OW and destroy everything we had and to destroy her. I know that is what I did but *I can't explain how and why I would do such a thing. It's really just too much for us to handle. I'm devastated at this pain and grief I have caused. *Thats what therapy is for.
ShatteredLady Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 My husband called it "Our former magical life". We've lost our innocence too. We met just after my 21 birthday & he's almost exactly a year older than me. We played & laughed a lot too. My H had just received a big bonus & shiny award for being the "Employee of the year". We were so proud! I thought he was joking when he walked in & said that he had lost his job. He's NEVER been laid-off in his whole career! I nearly died & needed emergency surgery. Everyone in the hospital kept telling us off. "She wouldn't of lasted another 24-48 hours!!". He's supposed to take care of me but was so stressed... I think sometimes it all becomes too much for someone to handle. I know my H will never be able to tell me why he let her into our life. Why he broke our little family. All I can say is... If the 'you' that you're presenting here is the same man your wife is seeing there is hope!! I wish my H could say the things you say. Pride is still too strong. If our "Magical life" can't be healed, can't be resurrected that will be the reason!! Cruelty & pride NOT the affair at the end of the day. It's taken me a long time to feel that. Please don't talk about it being too hard or giving-up. What hurts SO MUCH is being so vulnerable, no longer safe, secure, cherished. Tell her that you can take ANYTHING & you will NEVER leave her side again. Loosing that blind-faith is so horrible. You've loved her all of your adult life. Make her know that you will love her for the rest of it. 1
afoolto no end Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 My husband also had an affair, and I feel the same way your wife does, it's hard to believe anything anymore about me being worth the effort and choices for the future, when I am okay when I am sad, my husband now makes sure I know in any situation without asking that I know he will never give up on us again or make a mistake like that ever again, he doesn't just let me wonder he makes sure he is clear, looks me in the eye and says he loves me our life and he will never bail on me again or our life, over and over again........it's been 7 years now and he still makes that great effort .......he will never again let me doubt it, 3
heartwhole Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 The very first thing our MC said was that infidelity is not a life sentence. Maybe you need to hear that. Being a healthy person, honoring your marriage . . . these are life-long pursuits, and the lessons from your infidelity will be a driving force in these pursuits. But the infidelity itself is not the sum total of who you are. It will not always be the defining characteristic of your life or your marriage. I do believe that. My husband didn't come clean either. He only admitted to an emotional affair. His answers just didn't add up. Every time I looked somewhere else, like the family iPad that our children use , I would find something more (that time it was clear that he was sending naked pictures though thankfully he wasn't actually naked in any of them). So finally after two weeks I booted up his old phone and found emails that proved it was a PA. How many times I said during those two weeks that we couldn't rebuild on lies, that I needed him to tell me everything, etc etc etc!!!! And yet he never gained the courage. When my WH finally read How To Help Your Spouse Heal about three months ago, he said his heart was racing and his stomach was in knots the entire time. But still some good came out of reading the book. I realized that I needed him to send a firm NC letter. He had never done that, just given her mixed signals on DD and then cut her off little by little as I discovered more and more. By the time I discovered the PA she had been fully blocked but never given an actual NC message. He immediately understood and wrote her a proper NC statement, and it did give me some more peace that that door was finally closed. And again with the similarities . . . I didn't want us to keep going to MC either. I think we went about 6 months. My WH would get really defensive in counseling -- more so than he did when we discussed the A outside of counseling. The MC was really hard on him and kept driving home how self-absorbed he was, and I wasn't ready to process that yet. So then I felt like I had to avoid hard conversations so we wouldn't wind up with my husband shaking with anger while the MC pointed out his flaws. That led me to think, "This is a waste of time." But maybe it was just the wrong fit. Anyway, we both then started IC and I think that has been better. Maybe your wife would be open to trying a different MC. It will be a rollercoaster for a long while. Hopefully during the ups you are getting a glimpse of who you guys are together. During the downs just remember that the emotional work must be done so the issues don't get buried only to rise from the dead and destroy you guys later. Put them to bed properly. Obviously I'm not glad that my husband had an affair. I will always wish he had made different choices. But we can choose to view our situations in a "glass half full" kind of way. I have learned so much about myself and our marriage and my husband from this. I can see our dynamic so much more clearly than I ever could. Would that have happened without the crisis of infidelity? I don't know. We have a chance, a real chance to take a marriage that was always good and make it great. Just keep the hope alive during those down days. 1
Liam1 Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 As for not telling my wife about being laid off. I didn't tell anyone. I felt ashamed for some reason. My work was part of my identity. Part of my success and how I felt valued. I felt ashamed and embarrassed for some reason. My wife has always had my back and would have supported me and comforted me but I chose not to let her for some stupid reason. Well, if your wife won't go to counseling, YOU can get individual counseling. You need to understand why losing your job made you feel NOT VALUED. Why you felt valued by another woman, even though you did not have a job but you could not feel valued by your wife. Also, maybe you can suggest that your wife pick an MC she feels comfortable with. I let my wife pick an MC that she felt comfortable with. We went through about six MCs before she felt she found one that she could relate to. Thanks for the reply but I can't blame my wife for me choosing to have an A. She has been great to me and was waiting for me to come home during the holiday week. She didn't even have dinner cause she was so excited to pick me up at the airport and this is how I crush her. It's killing me to think about this. I am so sorry for her and I will spend the rest of my life regretting those decisions. As for not telling my wife about being laid off. I didn't tell anyone. I felt ashamed for some reason. My work was part of my identity. Part of my success and how I felt valued. I felt ashamed and embarrassed for some reason. My wife has always had my back and would have supported me and comforted me but I chose not to let her for some stupid reason. As for the hell i'm in now. Yes, it's been hell but she wouldn't be behaving this way if it wasn't for me. Yes, the 8 to 12+ hours of interrogating and questioning and blaming and pain and anger everyday is very exhausting but this is the consequences I must live with. I'll see if we can continue to go to counseling since so many on here recommend it. Maybe we can try a few difference ones for different view points. 1
Thomcat Posted March 26, 2016 Posted March 26, 2016 Your wife is in shock, despair of the lowest form, wondering why her world has disintegrated. You did it. Got that? You may have piloted the boat (your marriage) over Niagara Falls. But you are still alive so you must decide now and find the resolve to do the work - very hard work - and grow up and find out what a decent MAN has for his moral compass. Start reading Shirly Glass and Linda McDonald books. So, give up? or FIGHT! You choose - you will have to swallow your pride, ego - what little self respect you have left (if you are REMORSEFUL) and formulate a plan and be prepared for YEARS of work. Five years in the future you may find yourself divorcing but for now, you have to wage the good fight. There are tons of web resources and I caution you some of the advice is NOT good. I would give a serious look at the"healing library" on Surviving Infidelity - read - find a mentor (IC) if you can afford - a pastor/preacher/father/rabbi or? YOU NEED to speak to someone and talk the words and practice holding your tongue when a biting comment thought occurs. This you must decide to do and suffer the sorrow you have brought about. If you succeed and a few years in the future things are better, you will be more mature and capable of dealing with personal adversity like losing your job and knowing when to NOT do things inappropriate for a married man. I really do wish you luck - based on your initial post I hope this helps as I would bother to reply if I thought you had NO remorse. Thomcat 3
inthevalle Posted March 26, 2016 Posted March 26, 2016 Your wife is in shock, despair of the lowest form, wondering why her world has disintegrated. You did it. Got that? You may have piloted the boat (your marriage) over Niagara Falls. But you are still alive so you must decide now and find the resolve to do the work - very hard work - and grow up and find out what a decent MAN has for his moral compass. Start reading Shirly Glass and Linda McDonald books. So, give up? or FIGHT! You choose - you will have to swallow your pride, ego - what little self respect you have left (if you are REMORSEFUL) and formulate a plan and be prepared for YEARS of work. Five years in the future you may find yourself divorcing but for now, you have to wage the good fight. There are tons of web resources and I caution you some of the advice is NOT good. I would give a serious look at the"healing library" on Surviving Infidelity - read - find a mentor (IC) if you can afford - a pastor/preacher/father/rabbi or? YOU NEED to speak to someone and talk the words and practice holding your tongue when a biting comment thought occurs. This you must decide to do and suffer the sorrow you have brought about. If you succeed and a few years in the future things are better, you will be more mature and capable of dealing with personal adversity like losing your job and knowing when to NOT do things inappropriate for a married man. I really do wish you luck - based on your initial post I hope this helps as I would bother to reply if I thought you had NO remorse. Thomcat THIS is excellent advice. I would add Dr. Willard Harley's book, Surviving an Affair, to your reading list too.
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