Successful searching vs unsuccessful searching

[normal person]

And he got nothing. No women. None. As a matter of fact, women thought he was creepy because his new ambitious personality didn't really match his looks, demeanor, or his base personality. But even I'm surprised he got nothing, because I don't totally disagree with your premise.

 

You make an interesting point. That being said, there's a world of difference between "being a charismatic, successful dentist/musician" and "being a guy who dresses and acts exactly like his successful dentist friend but isn't actually a dentist himself." The big point of difference is that one is a dentist and lives an interesting, appealing life, with access to all sorts of things, the other just aspires to be like that and doesn't have the actual resources to do so. Yeah, if your friend plays in the NFL, you can hang around him and go out to the clubs with him, go to the gym, work out just like him... but at the end of the day, he's the one on TV making 7 figures, not you.

 

I mean, we're talking the equivalent of you taking of one of the 'struggling dudes' from this forum and having him shadow you for a few years and him literally listen to every piece of advice you gave him without question because he adored you that much. I mean, how many women do you think you could really get them?

 

I think you'd be surprised at the results. Base personality is just something that is so strong. Even if you wanted to, you cannot change it just like that.

 

 

I don't think I'd be too surprised. Base personality, or other aspects of how you think, feel, are viewed by, and interact with other people is largely dependent on your position in the world and your experiences. Someone who makes a lot of money, has achieved a lot, or is just plain good looking will likely have a lot more attractive qualities (or at least confidence) than someone who doesn't have those qualities or attributes. Personality will be largely affected. Now, changing the circumstances that affect that change is the very difficult part.

 

 

I know this firsthand. I got a job in Hollywood out of grad school and I didn't like it at all. The pay wasn't good and I didn't like the feeling of going through grad school just be some unremarkable Joe Schmoe working for someone else. It was emasculating, demoralizing, and miserable. I didn't want to interact with women because I didn't want to have to explain that I was "just" some assistant paper pusher. What girl would want a guy like that when there are actual movie stars walking around the city? I knew I needed something better. Fast forward a bit, I head out on my own venture, bust my butt, and now my life resembles your dentist friend's. I'm successful, live in Midtown, don't answer to anyone, am totally liberated, and I have twice as much confidence as I did in those days. I'm not inhibited by anything because I achieved a dream and proved that I'm on par with the best women in this city. My circumstances affected my personality drastically. There's a night and day difference.

 

When your position in the world is greater, you have a precious resource like money, or achieve something notable, or are well respected, your personality will likely change as a result of your circumstances. Life and women can be "conquered" much easier, they fall in your lap. Things aren't so daunting. Really, what we should be doing on this forum is telling every struggling guy to go to med school or become a fabulously successful businessman. But that's very impractical. A lot of the advice given here is well intentioned, but probably not too fruitful unless the guy is willing and able to change his life drastically.

Edited March 22, 2016 by normal person

[JuneJulySeptember]

You make an interesting point. That being said, there's a world of difference between "being a charismatic, successful dentist/musician" and "being a guy who dresses and acts exactly like his successful dentist friend but isn't actually a dentist himself." The big point of difference is that one is a dentist and lives an interesting, appealing life, with access to all sorts of things, the other just aspires to be like that and doesn't have the actual resources to do so. Yeah, if your friend plays in the NFL, you can hang around him and go out to the clubs with him, go to the gym, work out just like him... but at the end of the day, he's the one on TV making 7 figures, not you.

 

 

 

 

I don't think I'd be too surprised. Base personality, or other aspects of how you think, feel, are viewed by, and interact with other people is largely dependent on your position in the world and your experiences. Someone who makes a lot of money, has achieved a lot, or is just plain good looking will likely have a lot more attractive qualities (or at least confidence) than someone who doesn't have those qualities or attributes. Personality will be largely affected. Now, changing the circumstances that affect that change is the very difficult part.

 

 

I know this firsthand. I got a job in Hollywood out of grad school and I didn't like it at all. The pay wasn't good and I didn't like the feeling of going through grad school just be some unremarkable Joe Schmoe working for someone else. It was emasculating, demoralizing, and miserable. I didn't want to interact with women because I didn't want to have to explain that I was "just" some assistant paper pusher. What girl would want a guy like that when there are actual movie stars walking around the city? I knew I needed something better. Fast forward a bit, I head out on my own venture, bust my butt, and now my life resembles your dentist friend's. I'm successful, live in Midtown, don't answer to anyone, am totally liberated, and I have twice as much confidence as I did in those days. I'm not inhibited by anything because I achieved a dream and proved that I'm on par with the best women in this city. My circumstances affected my personality drastically. There's a night and day difference.

 

When your position in the world is greater, you have a precious resource like money, or achieve something notable, or are well respected, your personality will likely change as a result of your circumstances. Life and women can be "conquered" much easier, they fall in your lap. Things aren't so daunting. Really, what we should be doing on this forum is telling every struggling guy to go to med school or become a fabulously successful businessman. But that's very impractical. A lot of the advice given here is well intentioned, but probably not too fruitful unless the guy is willing and able to change his life drastically.

 

If all that is true, then why even bother?

 

You make a lot of $ and women like you, otherwise ... they don't?

 

You make life sound so ... grand.

[normal person]

If all that is true, then why even bother?

 

You make a lot of $ and women like you, otherwise ... they don't?

 

You make life sound so ... grand.

 

It's true for me, at least. I never saw much appeal in the middle ground, I just don't think that way. Life should be grand. Everyone should at least try and make it so, otherwise they're just wasting their time on this Earth. A life of mediocrity has absolutely no appeal to me. I don't understand how people don't do everything they can to have the best life for themselves. The freedom to do what they want, the elimination of trouble and discomfort, the best experiences, the best women, etc. Some, if not all of that, is attainable with hard work.

 

Why is this relevant? People always say dating is a numbers game. I agree. So if you want to have the most success, make it so the numbers are in your favor as best you can. How do you do that? Make the most of your time. Work your butt off in every aspect of your life. Don't be mediocre. Try to be the best you can at things. Make money. Your personality will change, your confidence will grow, women will like it. If the point of life on Earth is to reproduce and make sure your offspring live to reproduce themselves, then this is the mindset and personality that ensures survival of the species. That's why women find it attractive, even if they don't know it or can't rationalize it.

 

That's why women like money, more money = more provisions, better chance of survival.

That's why women like aggressive, muscular men, more aggression/athleticism/health = better chance of protecting family, better chance of survival.

etc.

 

Coming full circle, this is why the OP's trait of "being nice" or "goodness" does no real favors for him. It's a societal construct that has little use in the animal world (the world where biological attraction resides), which is survival of the fittest. If you're too nice and you value others more than yourself, you'll get walked over or eaten and you won't survive. You need to be a little bit of a savage to protect what's yours and not give it away. That's why being too nice or good isn't appealing to women, it's antithetical to survival.

 

Just my experience and observation.

Edited March 23, 2016 by normal person

[JuneJulySeptember]

That's why women like money, more money = more provisions, better chance of survival.

That's why women like aggressive, muscular men, more aggression/athleticism/health = better chance of protecting family, better chance of survival.

etc.

 

Coming full circle, this is why the OP's trait of "being nice" or "goodness" does no real favors for him. It's a societal construct that has little use in the animal world (the world where biological attraction resides), which is survival of the fittest. If you're too nice and you value others more than yourself, you'll get walked over or eaten and you won't survive. You need to be a little bit of a savage to protect what's yours and not give it away. That's why being too nice or good isn't appealing to women, it's antithetical to survival.

 

Just my experience and observation.

 

Your life philosophy is almost the EXACT opposite of mine.

 

I'd be interested to see if we made a poll how many people sided with you and how many people sided with me.

 

Of course, we can't.

[SammySammy]

Your life philosophy is almost the EXACT opposite of mine.

 

I'd be interested to see if we made a poll how many people sided with you and how many people sided with me.

 

Of course, we can't.

 

One vote for normal person.

 

Make it happen rather than make excuses. I'll agree with that all day, every day.

[JuneJulySeptember]

One vote for normal person.

 

Make it happen rather than make excuses. I'll agree with that all day, every day.

 

Dude, why don't you STFU.

 

You know I wasn't saying sit around and make excuses.

 

Jeez, just ban me again. I don't want to be part of this. Lol.

[JuneJulySeptember]

It's true for me, at least. I never saw much appeal in the middle ground, I just don't think that way. Life should be grand. Everyone should at least try and make it so, otherwise they're just wasting their time on this Earth. A life of mediocrity has absolutely no appeal to me. I don't understand how people don't do everything they can to have the best life for themselves. The freedom to do what they want, the elimination of trouble and discomfort, the best experiences, the best women, etc. Some, if not all of that, is attainable with hard work.

 

Why is this relevant? People always say dating is a numbers game. I agree. So if you want to have the most success, make it so the numbers are in your favor as best you can. How do you do that? Make the most of your time. Work your butt off in every aspect of your life. Don't be mediocre. Try to be the best you can at things. Make money. Your personality will change, your confidence will grow, women will like it. If the point of life on Earth is to reproduce and make sure your offspring live to reproduce themselves, then this is the mindset and personality that ensures survival of the species. That's why women find it attractive, even if they don't know it or can't rationalize it.

 

That's why women like money, more money = more provisions, better chance of survival.

That's why women like aggressive, muscular men, more aggression/athleticism/health = better chance of protecting family, better chance of survival.

etc.

 

Coming full circle, this is why the OP's trait of "being nice" or "goodness" does no real favors for him. It's a societal construct that has little use in the animal world (the world where biological attraction resides), which is survival of the fittest. If you're too nice and you value others more than yourself, you'll get walked over or eaten and you won't survive. You need to be a little bit of a savage to protect what's yours and not give it away. That's why being too nice or good isn't appealing to women, it's antithetical to survival.

 

Just my experience and observation.

 

And before I head out of this thread, I just want to say I respect your point of view and good luck to you.

 

I agree with some of the things you say, I just don't think everybody thinks that way.

Edited March 23, 2016 by JuneJulySeptember

[SammySammy]

Dude, why don't you STFU.

 

You know I wasn't saying sit around and make excuses.

 

Jeez, just ban me again. I don't want to be part of this. Lol.

 

 

Maybe it's best we don't have a poll.

 

And, you don't need to be banned. I don't take anything on here seriously. If we can't have a difference of opinion, what's the purposed of this forum?

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

Maybe it's best we don't have a poll.

 

And, you don't need to be banned. I don't take anything on here seriously. If we can't have a difference of opinion, what's the purposed of this forum?

 

Because you're not trying to debate. You're trying to rile me up.

 

You know damn well I didn't say sitting around in your boxers and whining and making excuses is the thing you should do.

 

I know a lot of people would agree with normal and that's why I said that.

 

But whatever, it's all good. I didn't take it seriously.

 

It's also late and I'm tired, lol.

[William]

OK, let's consider the current situation resolved and get back to ZA Dater's issue regarding his unsuccessful search.

 

Also, polling is available for specific topics of general interest by creating the topic and suggesting it to moderation via the alert-us button for a poll, including at least three and no more than five poll statements or questions. If approved, moderation will add a poll to the thread.

 

There will not be a poll added to this thread because it is a member's personal situation they are seeking assistance with. Hence, please continue with that process. Thanks!

[Sunberry]

I tend to think your surroundings/area is a big factor into finding someone as well. Someone from a small town and unable to leave it may have all those factors and be unable to find someone for them as opposed to someone living in a big city like New York.

[ZA Dater]

Confident, yes. Charming, yes, but not necessary. All the other stuff, not so much.

 

 

 

Being a good person counts for a lot assuming that's not the only "attractive" quality you have. Lots of people are good people. They enter in relationships for reasons varied far beyond being attracted to their partners' "goodness." Let's say you're browsing some online dating profiles and you come across one without any picture or personality. All it is a description of how the girl is a good person, with specific examples. Are you attracted to this person? She's good, after all. Or do you need some more information?

 

The point being, being a decent person is expected and a nice supplement to have in the event that you meet all the other criteria. On it's own, it's rarely enough to foster romantic appeal.

 

 

 

Even if there is something wrong with that, what good is complaining about it going to do? Your problem is that you're trying to view a biological attraction, which is an irrational, natural urge, through the lens of society, which is a construction. Society doesn't dictate who you feel attracted to. You're far from the first guy to lament "I'm such a good person, why don't women like me?" -- you've just got to realize that this doesn't make any sense within the context of dating. It's the same as saying, "I eat an apple every day, why don't women like me?" So you're a good person, congratulations. Why is that relevant? Your appeal to women isn't how nice you are, or how many apples you eat, or whatever irrelevant thing it is.

 

Because women aren't really looking for men who hang their hat on being just "good." They're looking for men that make them feel something, who are attractive to them in some way, and who can provide and protect, amongst other things. Being a doctor is primarily appealing to woman not because of the altruism of it, but because of earning power and security of it. The "goodness" is secondary. That's why women are fawning over doctors, not guys who earn a pittance at humanitarian non profits. Lawyers are typically held in the same regard and many people would hesitate to call lawyers inherently good. Do you think women go see Magic Mike and read 50 Shades of Grey because the male characters are just so good? Goodness doesn't get anyone excited or turn anyone on. It's largely irrelevant in terms of attraction. Good is the wrong tool for the job. Money, excitement, security, beauty, entertainment, and mystery are much, much better tools. You don't have to ditch goodness, but you need some of these.

 

 

 

 

Take no offense, but I'm guessing you did this because of your lack of other options, not out of decency. I'm a very decent, giving person as well and I sure as heck don't go out with every woman who expresses some interest in me. My time is too valuable and I have very high standards. Not everyone has the time, patience, or money to do that. Or the lack of other options to necessitate it. It's just impractical and no woman would blame you for not wanting to go out with someone you aren't interested in. Sorry, but you doing it doesn't make it the gold standard of etiquette, and it can't be used to leverage action out of everyone else. Everyone's circumstances are different. Let's say a women, whose time is valuable, gets 5 messages a day from guys she isn't interested in, and one from a guy whom she is. Does she have to go out with all of them? Or can she afford to pick and choose?

 

I could also make a whole other post about how your willingness to go out with any other person just to be nice, or to give the benefit of the doubt, at the expense of your own time and resources, is unattractive. But I won't right now.

 

 

 

Survival of the fittest. The world isn't going to adapt to you, you have to adapt to the world. If you want something more than what you've got, you've got to step out of your comfort zone to get it. No one's saying "act like a 23 year old," but some more sound advice would be "don't expect female attention just because you're nice."

 

 

 

You can always change. It's not necessarily easy, but it's possible.

 

This is a thought provoking post. In many respects most of your posts here have affirmed what I have seen first hand.

 

I cant argue that attraction is not important but guys like me don't know what people find attractive. For example I am tall athletic guy, never have those attributes helped me based on that I am not physically attractive to people.

 

You are of course correct in stating that being a good person on its own isn't enough but surely its enough to at least be considered?

 

I disagree, society does to an extent dictate attraction, the proliferation of "your man should be this" type articles, the over emphasis placed on sexual prowess, all these aspects are rammed home to society each and every day in some form or other. The slant is heavily towards the superficial and by that I am not saying people shouldn't strive to be fit and healthy, I am saying people forget about the intangible aspects and chase the physical ones.

 

Again I agree that people look for someone who makes them feel something. For me its probably the most frustrating thing about dating, there are extremely few people where I do feel anything, 10/10 models, I feel nothing at all, 6/10 intellectual, well spoken, naturally pretty, good world knowledge, there I feel something. Just seems to me based on this such subjective criteria, for someone like me to keep looking when I have had zero success is pointless because no matter what I do I can never rationalise or cover all the bases or do enough to give me a reasonable chance of success.

 

For me its tough to realise the good qualities I have, the assets I have are worthless in the dating game, I am not prepared to try and "buy" people or throw money around trying to impress someone, I could be a wont because the lingering doubt in my mind would be, do they like money or do they like me. In addition its purely wasteful in the extreme to adopt such a strategy.

 

Yes, I had no options so I had to resort to whoever would give me the time of day, there are only so many times one can sit and eat dinner on ones own, there are only so many times one can sit with nobody to talk to. I did it out of desperation more than anything else. If I could pick and choose believe me I would!

 

As time marches on the people who are interested become less and less what I am looking for, the unfortunate thing is the bar has been raised by people I have liked and when I go onto OLD or similar I just cannot find that calibre of person, this is perhaps what my US based friends don't seem to understand OLD is taboo here, mention OLD at any social function and people literally turn away and change the subject and look at you like you are mad, nothing in SA says looser quite like the word OLD and as such the variety issue free people on OLD is extremely small.

 

You tell me where I should step out to? Genuinely I have spent hours pondering this, I don't drink that rules everything to do with alcohol out which in turn eliminates 99% of places people actually go to socialise.

 

As for what impresses ladies, I truly have no idea because nothing I seem to have or have achieved impresses them at all.

[ZA Dater]

It's true for me, at least. I never saw much appeal in the middle ground, I just don't think that way. Life should be grand. Everyone should at least try and make it so, otherwise they're just wasting their time on this Earth. A life of mediocrity has absolutely no appeal to me. I don't understand how people don't do everything they can to have the best life for themselves. The freedom to do what they want, the elimination of trouble and discomfort, the best experiences, the best women, etc. Some, if not all of that, is attainable with hard work.

 

Why is this relevant? People always say dating is a numbers game. I agree. So if you want to have the most success, make it so the numbers are in your favor as best you can. How do you do that? Make the most of your time. Work your butt off in every aspect of your life. Don't be mediocre. Try to be the best you can at things. Make money. Your personality will change, your confidence will grow, women will like it. If the point of life on Earth is to reproduce and make sure your offspring live to reproduce themselves, then this is the mindset and personality that ensures survival of the species. That's why women find it attractive, even if they don't know it or can't rationalize it.

 

That's why women like money, more money = more provisions, better chance of survival.

That's why women like aggressive, muscular men, more aggression/athleticism/health = better chance of protecting family, better chance of survival.

etc.

 

Coming full circle, this is why the OP's trait of "being nice" or "goodness" does no real favors for him. It's a societal construct that has little use in the animal world (the world where biological attraction resides), which is survival of the fittest. If you're too nice and you value others more than yourself, you'll get walked over or eaten and you won't survive. You need to be a little bit of a savage to protect what's yours and not give it away. That's why being too nice or good isn't appealing to women, it's antithetical to survival.

 

Just my experience and observation.

 

I agree with you 100% here, hence the reason I refuse to settle for people I don't find attractive. Unfortunately I am shopping with a set of attributes which on the face of it are worthless.

[ZA Dater]

True story.

 

I had/have two friends, both whom actually live in NYC.

 

One is a dentist who earns more than most doctors, has a really nice pad in midtown and is/was a social party guy. He's also short. Despite that, he did OK and had some decent women just because he is what you say ... what women are looking for. He was the life of the party, played in a band, acted in a B movie, interesting, smart, rich, cosmopolitan. Never did or paid attention to crap that was a waste of time in terms of getting women such as sports, watching dumb movies about serial killers and horror movies, and drinking in old man dive bars (which I'll add is stuff I love ). But that is him and that is always the way he was.

 

Another one of my friends was just the total opposite. Stuttered, dressed bad, bad haircuts, bad with talking to women. No real interests that were "cool" to women.

 

Anyway, they met somehow. He fell in love with my friend and decided he wanted to change everything about himself to become like my first friend. And my first friend decided to take him under his wing. They were inseparable for a few years. I mean, two guys who were so different. He went out and got him expensive haircuts, trendy clothes, told him how to talk to women, took him on as his band's roadie, introduced him to all the women he knew, took him everywhere he went.

 

And he got nothing. No women. None. As a matter of fact, women thought he was creepy because his new ambitious personality didn't really match his looks, demeanor, or his base personality. But even I'm surprised he got nothing, because I don't totally disagree with your premise.

 

I mean, we're talking the equivalent of you taking of one of the 'struggling dudes' from this forum and having him shadow you for a few years and him literally listen to every piece of advice you gave him without question because he adored you that much. I mean, how many women do you think you could really get them?

 

I think you'd be surprised at the results. Base personality is just something that is so strong. Even if you wanted to, you cannot change it just like that.

 

This is exactly the problem I have to an extent, very successful friend, married late in life through choice, lots of dating experience. He has tried to get me to do things which worked for him ignoring the fact my personality isn't his. He recently stopped drinking and noted how unfriendly and how difficult it was to go to social functions as a non drinker.

 

The biggest problem I think many people who have had continual rejection have is that we have never really had female attention or interesting, its always been us chasing and us expressing interest, there is never any reciprocated interest.

 

I do think change is possible but I know for fact the people I found most attractive were always the ones that brought out the best in me. Its true to say I am quite reserved, quiet even because I have been burnt so many times its just better if I say less, this of course takes all personality away and I then appear slightly robotic. The best people I feel at ease with from the first minute.

 

My point has always been there are seemingly no generic things people can try which make them more successful. I used to think I could win people over, they would give me time to woo them but that just doesn't seem to be true.

 

Having very few friends doesn't help and as one person said if you cant find friends it almost impossible to find a girlfriend.

 

If you don't have mainstream interests and if you have an "old soul" its even more difficult, add in years of rejections and regrets and believe me, if it wasn't for one person I would have walked away quite easily. I guess I just have a romantic notion that one day this person will give me a chance/opportunity.

[Empire87]

I think that at this point the best thing for ZA to do is to utilize those writing skills and ability to be a "good person" and write a novel about dating/women/socializing/and society. It doesn't really matter that nothing you've tried, done, or thought has worked up until this point at all. Despite the fact that you've failed to take 1 step forward in this area of life over the last 15 years, somehow you've managed to accurately grasp every walk of life and the reasoning behind why the world works the way it does.

 

As I read the last few pages of posts I found myself getting incredibly frustrated at first because it's very unusual to see someone, put forth such a concerted and unwavering effort into rebutting, denying, disagreeing, with literally every attempt to provide him with practical, experienced, tried/tested advice and attitude adjustment tips.

 

You seem enamored by the lack of a social/intimate stimulation so much that you've started dozens of threads looking for the thoughts and input others all around the world have on each matter, it just simply doesn't make sense why you wouldn't soak in every single piece of positive encouragement, alternative approaches, ways of thinkin, specific detailed instruction on where to go, what to do, how to slowly acquire the little traits and awareness that can lead to the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I should apologize for being sarcastic to start this reply. It wasn't aimed to put you down, and I'll preface the next comments by saying i really don't have any ill will or agenda against you. Might just be blunt and straight forward.

 

I was originally going to break down each reply of yours to mine and point out the discrepancies that fill each of your views and stances on what is and isn't true. Such as originally stating that one must have friends to have a chance in the dating world, which you don't have. Yet you follow it up by quoting the countless "successful people" and others in your life that have given you the thoughts on what is/isn't possible, or why the cards are stacked against you and it's not worth trying.

Or how you believe that no "good person" has ever gotten a chance from a girl and why you don't appreciate the unfairness on why things don't work for you but work for others.

Not even going to get into the fact that if we were to believe you, that would mean that everyone in the world who is a good person is single and can't do anything that a girl would like.

Or how people who don't drink are social outcasts and no one likes them. Even though there's probably more sober designated drivers at the bar then blackout wasted macho guys. Drinking doesn't mean you go out slugging shots till you pass out in a girls bed. Most people have under 3-4 drinks at most each time they drink. And that gets even lower once you hit 30.

 

I'm willing to bet that you've heard this before... But it's honestly because there's a reason behind it. While I think you are a good person at heart, I also think you have a definite social disorder that's semi responsible for how your brain works, most likely coupled with a form of depression or social ineptness that have compounded over your development years and formed a steel bubble around your ability to change and make actual progress.

 

Everyone can't be wrong and have you be right. And the fact that you are unable to see that or waver even in the slightest, to just reach out and take the overwhelming feedback you've gotten here and in the past, and do/try anything to get to the life you'd be 100% happy with.

 

The efforts you describe are over exaggerating the things you've tried to make it appear like you've done/tried everything. The statements you make saying "I'm just never going to go out and talk to anyone or try to interact with a girl in person". Is something that wastes the time of anyone who tries to help.

If you were able to think and understand the reality around you then you would do things more than once before giving up forever. You would stand by your decision to stop trying or thinking about dating instead of arguing with others why you can't ever get better and why it's because you didn't develop social confidence as a teenager.

 

Therapy isn't the enemy. It's something that can honestly save your life.

You describe how you have all these desires to go traveling and see the world and have things you want to try. But you then say that you'll never do any of these things because everyone would notice that you're by yourself and you'd feel like a loser.

 

That's not something people here can help you get past at this stage in your life. If people go to medical school and get degrees in understanding the human brain/body/etc... Shouldn't you believe that they're smarter than you are in this area and can possibly fix what you yourself can't see.

[SammySammy]

Another outstanding post, Empire87.

 

You're right. It's frustrating to try to help a person who clearly does not want help though they ask for help. Someone who chooses to ignore the truth while believing falsehoods. Someone who continually contradicts themselves.

 

At some point, you have to wonder if they just like wallowing in misery.

[Empire87]

Another outstanding post, Empire87.

 

You're right. It's frustrating to try to help a person who clearly does not want help though they ask for help. Someone who chooses to ignore the truth while believing falsehoods. Someone who continually contradicts themselves.

 

At some point, you have to wonder if they just like wallowing in misery.

 

Id wager that this is probably his social outlet where people can feed positivity and the focus onto him which is something he's never experienced in real life so the only way to keep getting that is by being the self appointed mayor of "it's not fair town".

 

Life ain't fair. Beautiful girls aren't gonna be into you and approach you to talk about "generic things".

 

What doesn't make sense is how he states he hates how NO girl EVER has given him an opportunity or chance. Yet if he's been on dates, then that would be a pretty obvious example of...... Duh.. Opportunity.

[elaine567]

Unfortunately this is also a very bad case of "Oneitis".

There is only one cure, but the lady in question is just not interested.

Until that problem is addressed and sorted, it is indeed "hopeless".

[ZA Dater]

Id wager that this is probably his social outlet where people can feed positivity and the focus onto him which is something he's never experienced in real life so the only way to keep getting that is by being the self appointed mayor of "it's not fair town".

 

Life ain't fair. Beautiful girls aren't gonna be into you and approach you to talk about "generic things".

 

What doesn't make sense is how he states he hates how NO girl EVER has given him an opportunity or chance. Yet if he's been on dates, then that would be a pretty obvious example of...... Duh.. Opportunity.

 

Been on dates with people I don't find attractive hardly qualifies as opportunity or chance. Its simply me getting my wallet out and offering a dinner for some company. Nothing more.

[ZA Dater]

I think that at this point the best thing for ZA to do is to utilize those writing skills and ability to be a "good person" and write a novel about dating/women/socializing/and society. It doesn't really matter that nothing you've tried, done, or thought has worked up until this point at all. Despite the fact that you've failed to take 1 step forward in this area of life over the last 15 years, somehow you've managed to accurately grasp every walk of life and the reasoning behind why the world works the way it does.

 

As I read the last few pages of posts I found myself getting incredibly frustrated at first because it's very unusual to see someone, put forth such a concerted and unwavering effort into rebutting, denying, disagreeing, with literally every attempt to provide him with practical, experienced, tried/tested advice and attitude adjustment tips.

 

You seem enamored by the lack of a social/intimate stimulation so much that you've started dozens of threads looking for the thoughts and input others all around the world have on each matter, it just simply doesn't make sense why you wouldn't soak in every single piece of positive encouragement, alternative approaches, ways of thinkin, specific detailed instruction on where to go, what to do, how to slowly acquire the little traits and awareness that can lead to the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I should apologize for being sarcastic to start this reply. It wasn't aimed to put you down, and I'll preface the next comments by saying i really don't have any ill will or agenda against you. Might just be blunt and straight forward.

 

I was originally going to break down each reply of yours to mine and point out the discrepancies that fill each of your views and stances on what is and isn't true. Such as originally stating that one must have friends to have a chance in the dating world, which you don't have. Yet you follow it up by quoting the countless "successful people" and others in your life that have given you the thoughts on what is/isn't possible, or why the cards are stacked against you and it's not worth trying.

Or how you believe that no "good person" has ever gotten a chance from a girl and why you don't appreciate the unfairness on why things don't work for you but work for others.

Not even going to get into the fact that if we were to believe you, that would mean that everyone in the world who is a good person is single and can't do anything that a girl would like.

Or how people who don't drink are social outcasts and no one likes them. Even though there's probably more sober designated drivers at the bar then blackout wasted macho guys. Drinking doesn't mean you go out slugging shots till you pass out in a girls bed. Most people have under 3-4 drinks at most each time they drink. And that gets even lower once you hit 30.

 

I'm willing to bet that you've heard this before... But it's honestly because there's a reason behind it. While I think you are a good person at heart, I also think you have a definite social disorder that's semi responsible for how your brain works, most likely coupled with a form of depression or social ineptness that have compounded over your development years and formed a steel bubble around your ability to change and make actual progress.

 

Everyone can't be wrong and have you be right. And the fact that you are unable to see that or waver even in the slightest, to just reach out and take the overwhelming feedback you've gotten here and in the past, and do/try anything to get to the life you'd be 100% happy with.

 

The efforts you describe are over exaggerating the things you've tried to make it appear like you've done/tried everything. The statements you make saying "I'm just never going to go out and talk to anyone or try to interact with a girl in person". Is something that wastes the time of anyone who tries to help.

If you were able to think and understand the reality around you then you would do things more than once before giving up forever. You would stand by your decision to stop trying or thinking about dating instead of arguing with others why you can't ever get better and why it's because you didn't develop social confidence as a teenager.

 

Therapy isn't the enemy. It's something that can honestly save your life.

You describe how you have all these desires to go traveling and see the world and have things you want to try. But you then say that you'll never do any of these things because everyone would notice that you're by yourself and you'd feel like a loser.

 

That's not something people here can help you get past at this stage in your life. If people go to medical school and get degrees in understanding the human brain/body/etc... Shouldn't you believe that they're smarter than you are in this area and can possibly fix what you yourself can't see.

 

Firstly I don't see a heck of a lot of encouragement here. My intention here was to understand what makes people successful and what I could adapt to make me more successful. Instead I get is lectured as to how useless and bad and how wrong I am about everything.

 

Did it ever occur to you I have been out, I have interacted with people and all these experiences have formed the opinions I put forth today? Did you ever for a minute consider that?

 

Alternative approaches? What are these exactly? Meetups? Approaching random people? Lowering ones standards? A new OLD profile? More OLD sites? New clothes? Moving to another country? Yes, I too can be sarcastic but these are the usual trotted out replies which don't address the plain and simple question I and countless other have asked which is. How can you expect to make anyone like you when you have no friends? I have people I know, they are friends, they don't invite me to dinner, I see them for mutual related interests that's is all.

 

At the end of the day there has to be measure one can do to be successful without compromising who one is but based on this thread that's simply impossible.

 

If I have a social disorder its the total inability to be interested in people who talk about nothing of substance, its about how much Joe drank, is Tracy sleeping with Peter, Peters party was so cool. I then ask "what do you rate Trumps chances are", the room is silent, nobody has an opinion to offer at all and I sit there like a prized pumpkin as once again the arcane talk continues.

 

Each date I have had barring two followed the same pattern, people offering nothing up of interest, asking nothing about me, I ask about them, talk about things they like and there is just no connection. I suppose this is my problem to and I must just adapt to talking about mind numbing topics.

 

Unfortunately one of the biggest problems I have in life is a patent inability to give up at anything, I could live a far happier empty life if I could walk away but until I get a taste of what its like to date its going to be impossible to walk away. When I say that I mean date someone I genuinely like rather than buy dinner for in order to have some company.

 

I do wish I could relate to people, I do wish I could vanquish much of the past but I cant really/don't know how to do any of those things, age will always be my enemy. Inexperience is acceptable at 22 its simply not at 32.

 

What I didn't post here was an experience where a friend tried to set me up, she refused to even consider me "he is too inexperienced", guess how that made me feel.

[elaine567]

If I have a social disorder its the total inability to be interested in people who talk about nothing of substance, its about how much Joe drank, is Tracy sleeping with Peter, Peters party was so cool. I then ask "what do you rate Trumps chances are", the room is silent, nobody has an opinion to offer at all and I sit there like a prized pumpkin as once again the arcane talk continues.

 

 

What sort of people are you mixing with here?

And more importantly why are you spending time with them?

It is NOT their fault they are NOT your type of people, I am sure they are perfectly happy, it is YOUR fault for not choosing to mix with people who share your interests.

[elaine567]

I then ask "what do you rate Trumps chances are", the room is silent, nobody has an opinion to offer at all and I sit there like a prized pumpkin as once again the arcane talk continues.

 

Again, unless you delve into a university debating society or a group of political activists then the chances of finding a 22 yo South African seriously interested in US politics, enough to debate about it anyway, is very low.

[ZA Dater]

Again, unless you delve into a university debating society or a group of political activists then the chances of finding a 22 yo South African seriously interested in US politics, enough to debate about it anyway, is very low.

 

Seeing you mention age I have gone as high as 35yo and the knowledge of world affairs is shockingly non existent.

 

Its not about being interested in something its about being in tune with the world around you and having some interest in it. Its enormously frustrating to continually have to try and add value to the types of conversations mentioned above.

 

Everyone here laughs at my pneitis, its simply I spend the last 20 years looking for someone with that level of knowledge, that level of intellect and that level of writing ability, that vocab and that knowledge of the world around her. The fact she too was single for 5 years tells me a lot.

[basil67]

Been on dates with people I don't find attractive hardly qualifies as opportunity or chance. Its simply me getting my wallet out and offering a dinner for some company. Nothing more.

 

They are giving you a chance. The fact that you don't want that chance doesn't mean that it hasn't been offered.

[Empire87]

Firstly I don't see a heck of a lot of encouragement here. My intention here was to understand what makes people successful and what I could adapt to make me more successful. Instead I get is lectured as to how useless and bad and how wrong I am about everything.

 

The fact that you see the initial replies as anything but aimed at helping is proof right there. The fact that people have to lecture you is proof that you don't make it easy to converse or have the interaction end positively without a struggle.

 

Did it ever occur to you I have been out, I have interacted with people and all these experiences have formed the opinions I put forth today? Did you ever for a minute consider that?

 

If you had been out then you would've found more than 2 girls in your entire life that wow'd you. You flat out said that you don't go out. So it doesn't matter if you went out 5 years ago or last year. You're not doing it now. Either suck it up and go out, or sit at home and don't bother. But don't sit home and complain that you can't go out because it doesn't work.

 

Alternative approaches? What are these exactly? Meetups? Approaching random people? Lowering ones standards? A new OLD profile? More OLD sites? New clothes? Moving to another country? Yes, I too can be sarcastic but these are the usual trotted out replies which don't address the plain and simple question I and countless other have asked which is. How can you expect to make anyone like you when you have no friends? I have people I know, they are friends, they don't invite me to dinner, I see them for mutual related interests that's is all.

 

Those shouldn't be sarcasm. It's really that simple. In not going to go through and lost everything that's been suggested to you in this thread because you don't even register any of the information the first time around. If you did, you'd know what people do successfully.

 

At the end of the day there has to be measure one can do to be successful without compromising who one is but based on this thread that's simply impossible.

 

Every time you say "at the end of the day" or "the bottom line is". Just reinforces you're own narcissism. Those are statements that mean "doesn't really matter what you say... Here's my final answer and I'm right"

 

If I have a social disorder its the total inability to be interested in people who talk about nothing of substance, its about how much Joe drank, is Tracy sleeping with Peter, Peters party was so cool. I then ask "what do you rate Trumps chances are", the room is silent, nobody has an opinion to offer at all and I sit there like a prized pumpkin as once again the arcane talk continues.

 

This is gonna be a shocker to you.... But maybe if you want to have adult conversations with girls... You shouldn't hang around college chicks and early-mid twenties groups. No one cares about Trumps chances, you don't even live in the country where that election is!!!! I mean cmon.

 

Each date I have had barring two followed the same pattern, people offering nothing up of interest, asking nothing about me, I ask about them, talk about things they like and there is just no connection. I suppose this is my problem to and I must just adapt to talking about mind numbing topics.

 

Distorted reality.

 

Unfortunately one of the biggest problems I have in life is a patent inability to give up at anything, I could live a far happier empty life if I could walk away but until I get a taste of what its like to date its going to be impossible to walk away. When I say that I mean date someone I genuinely like rather than buy dinner for in order to have some company.

 

Is this sarcasm? You're really saying that you have a problem with "not giving up"? Please... Read through your own replies... Explain to everyone here how you are literally doing everything you can to prove to everyone why giving up is your only option. You'd go out and try things if you didn't want to give up. You'd go to the places you wanna travel. The fact that you think that people on vacation are gonna pay attention to you and notice you're alone is a direct example of how your reality makes you think people are always aware of your ineptitudes. No one cares or notices!

 

I do wish I could relate to people, I do wish I could vanquish much of the past but I cant really/don't know how to do any of those things, age will always be my enemy. Inexperience is acceptable at 22 its simply not at 32.

 

What I didn't post here was an experience where a friend tried to set me up, she refused to even consider me "he is too inexperienced", guess how that made me feel.

 

Probly made you feel like you advertise or make your inexperience way to public if your friends can't resist holding back that info when trying to get you a date.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong but if you have friends that try to set you up on dates.... Where is this "I have no friends! I have no chance" truth coming from?