Author ZA Dater Posted March 21, 2016 Author Posted March 21, 2016 Setting oneself impossible challenges, is called self sabotage. YOU are setting yourself up to fail and are wallowing in self pity when you do fail... MOST people are "hopeless" at dating, the world is full of people "hopeless" at dating. What happens is that through experience people learn what they want, what they will tolerate, what they won't. NO-ONE is dating or in a relationship with the perfect person, everyone has to accept life isn't really like that, everyone "settles" in some way, otherwise we would all be alone. I don't see how having preferences is setting myself up to fail. There are many people who are successful at dating, in fact I'd wager they far out number those who go years without a date, they can pick and choose at will whereas many people simply cannot. Perfect is what you make of it, certain qualities can make a person perfect but as you say its about deciding what you can put up with and what you cant. I have made my mind up what I can put up with and what I cannot, the fact that pretty much narrows my prospective pool of people is unfortunate. Seeing as I have never said any success I would guess I am the master of dating failure!
elaine567 Posted March 21, 2016 Posted March 21, 2016 I don't see how having preferences is setting myself up to fail. It is, if you limit your preference so severely that very few meet the criteria.
Author ZA Dater Posted March 21, 2016 Author Posted March 21, 2016 It is, if you limit your preference so severely that very few meet the criteria. Such is life, we like what we like. In the context of this I guess we have to agree successful daters often have very broad criteria. Based on that I guess having very set criteria definitely wont help very much. Unfortunately when one looks at it, being sociable is perhaps the most important attribute one can have and I wonder if those who battle lack something there, I know I definitely do but mostly because I just cant relate to anyone or very few people. Mostly I just cant find common ground and when I read the posts here of guys like me it seems this is a fairly common issue. Ultimately my own lack of success is mostly due to the fact people need to wow me and very few do, each time one does and I chase and it doesn't work the bar is raised so anyone who comes along after needs to be better than the one before. Which is unrealistic and doesn't happen. I had a look at Meetup today and again the problem is I go as a 32yo but my thinking isn't of a 32yo so it becomes me just feeling so isolated 'lets go for a drink", I don't drink so just being me draws so much attention because me is not like everyone else. A large part of me hangs on to some small hope I can win at a long term game but there is very little sign of me getting anywhere at that, barring perhaps some sort of professional symbiotic relationship where I just give and give and give like I do with everyone else and get some small bits of attention back here and there, be it a nice e mail or simply being asked how I am. Its pathetic but its nice when someone takes an interest, I try do that with people but its hardly ever reciprocated. In short I am the sort of guy, call me at 2am when you need something, I will be there, need my help, I will be the first to volunteer, need me to listen, I'll listen. Need me offer and opinion, I will offer a considered and fair one. Maybe the problem with unsuccessful people is they are too different to what everyone accepts as normal which is why they have such a small audience.
Empire87 Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 You seem to be focusing constantly on re inforcing why life has dealt you a bad card and why some people just won't ever have success dating/socializing. Asking what the genetic similarities are in people who get into relationships is a waste of a question and does nothing for you in the end correct? Just accept that you've formed some pretty definitive opinions about what is/isn't true in the world of dating and what attracts women... But if you truly do want to improve then you also need to accept that some of those assumptions and stances you've taken are not in fact universally true, generally true, or true at all. Logic should tell you that you can't be right about everything. Especially when multiple people are telling you otherwise. If you came here for a reason, be man enough to curb your own ego a bit. To follow that up, you say your target is 22-27yo. Here's a fact. The 22-27 yo girl that dates a man in his 30's is generally a socially mature and self confident girl who has a reason for dating a man 5-10 years her senior. Those reasons are that she's attracted to the maturity an older man provides, the stable/long term lifestyle possibilities, less games/drama that a college guy or guy her age would bring, the list goes on. Take an honest look at yourself. Are you someone who can navigate dating and reading women pretty well? I would say no. Are you someone who is ready to settle into a long term relationship because you know what you like/dislike and what it takes to make a relationship last? Obviously not. Are you suave enough or confident enough or good looking enough to get the attractive 20 something girl with multiple options? I would guess no again. Top that all off with the fact that you yourself say you stopped going out and doing anything. Where would you logically say you're standing a chance with the girls you want? You say you only want someone who "wow"s you. How many girls in your life have "wow'd you? If you say under 5 or under 10, then most would say that being turned down or not having success with 5-10 women is hardly the end of the world and a hopeless sign. Plus, if you're not going out, you're removing the ability to run into someone that impressed you completely. Lastly... People don't just develop dating and social skills in high school or teenagers. Ever hear of late bloomers? Ever hear of people who were shy or ugly or made fun of through high school and college? I mean talk about a million examples there. The overwhelming majority of humans aren't gifted at dating and finding a partner that they click with. If they were, then most people would marry the first person they date or hook up with. So here's a example of where you can alter your thinking as far as telling yourself "I missed the boat, there's no chance now". I'd also suggest trying to prove the fact that "some people just never will find someone or have success" that's a defeatist and preventative way of thinking. That should be obvious. Start sending replies with things like "ok I can see why you'd say that, what would you suggest doing/saying in this situation instead?" Or "perhaps that is true, I haven't seen it but it appears others have so I'll keep an open mind going forward" or "any ideas on what I can do or where I can go to find people who would be easier to start conversations with?" You'd be best leaving the thought of success out of your mind. Go out, take a class, join a group or hobby club and start socializing with no expectations. No ones gonna ask you to be your friend after 1 day. Slowly you build a rapport and others will "get" what kinda guy you are. That's when you or they will suggest "hey wanna grab a drink after this?" Or "I'm taking a new gym class next week if you wanna check it out with me". 2
lino Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 Just as there are universally attractive men, there are universally unattractive ones. Those who don't fit the rigid molds of what women expect from a bloke. I don't know you well enough to say if this is you ZA dater but I get the sense that you aren't 'in' mainstream and this indeed can hinder you, especially if you're chasing a younger crowd. I would suggest that being open to dating women your age is beneficial. The younger ones will have a lot more guys after them and if you aren't what's seen as universally cool or trendy, chances are even lower.
Author ZA Dater Posted March 22, 2016 Author Posted March 22, 2016 Just as there are universally attractive men, there are universally unattractive ones. Those who don't fit the rigid molds of what women expect from a bloke. I don't know you well enough to say if this is you ZA dater but I get the sense that you aren't 'in' mainstream and this indeed can hinder you, especially if you're chasing a younger crowd. I would suggest that being open to dating women your age is beneficial. The younger ones will have a lot more guys after them and if you aren't what's seen as universally cool or trendy, chances are even lower. This makes sense, really it does. I am far out of the mainstream, the things I am good at are not seen as mainstream, my interests are no mainstream. Sure, I have looked at ladies my age and always just found they are usually full of baggage and just not attractive or they want kids soon or they already have kids. The settle down age in SA seems to be around 27, most of the people I know were married by that age, by 30 they had a kid. I do agree being trendy probably does give one the edge in terms of the level of success one can have, as is having mainstream interests, the problem I guess I created for myself is I simply decided in my mid teens not to be mainstream at anything.
Empire87 Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 This makes sense, really it does. I am far out of the mainstream, the things I am good at are not seen as mainstream, my interests are no mainstream. Sure, I have looked at ladies my age and always just found they are usually full of baggage and just not attractive or they want kids soon or they already have kids. The settle down age in SA seems to be around 27, most of the people I know were married by that age, by 30 they had a kid. I do agree being trendy probably does give one the edge in terms of the level of success one can have, as is having mainstream interests, the problem I guess I created for myself is I simply decided in my mid teens not to be mainstream at anything. That's the settle down age for the most part all over the world. Does that mean that most people settle down at 27? Absolutely not. In this day and age women are more independent than ever, go to college, establish careers for themselves. So if that's more prevalent nowadays then the age women remain single for goes up as well. We all know that couple who got married out of college, or the ones that start getting engaged. Go to those peoples weddings. Ill bet you that most or at least a bunch of their friends/guests are not "the next to get hitched" or with someone at all. Why do you think weddings are such a common answer people give when asked "so how'd you guys meet?". If they met at a friends wedding when they're 27-30, then date for at least a year , you do the math. Mid thirties will become more and more common going forward for the avg age people get married. Trendy? I can't state enough how off base I feel your views on what "generally is true" are. Trendy in the area I live now can vary depending on which part of the city you live in. Know the term "hipsters"? What about "conservative"? Trendy isn't a popular thing that everyone abides by whatsoever. It's trendy in California to surf. Does that mean girls won't like you if you ski? Deciding not to be mainstream is probably what most people do believe it or not. The "anti norm" or socially rebellious types. Matter of fact, other than the "jocks and cool kids" in high school, EVERYONE else is not "mainstream" By your definition. Seriously look at the points you make about others around you based of your reality perceptions. It's not that hard to just tell yourself you're going to resist putting people into the stereotypes that you've built in your head if you really think about it. 1
Author ZA Dater Posted March 22, 2016 Author Posted March 22, 2016 You seem to be focusing constantly on re inforcing why life has dealt you a bad card and why some people just won't ever have success dating/socializing. Asking what the genetic similarities are in people who get into relationships is a waste of a question and does nothing for you in the end correct? Just accept that you've formed some pretty definitive opinions about what is/isn't true in the world of dating and what attracts women... But if you truly do want to improve then you also need to accept that some of those assumptions and stances you've taken are not in fact universally true, generally true, or true at all. Logic should tell you that you can't be right about everything. Especially when multiple people are telling you otherwise. If you came here for a reason, be man enough to curb your own ego a bit. To follow that up, you say your target is 22-27yo. Here's a fact. The 22-27 yo girl that dates a man in his 30's is generally a socially mature and self confident girl who has a reason for dating a man 5-10 years her senior. Those reasons are that she's attracted to the maturity an older man provides, the stable/long term lifestyle possibilities, less games/drama that a college guy or guy her age would bring, the list goes on. Take an honest look at yourself. Are you someone who can navigate dating and reading women pretty well? I would say no. Are you someone who is ready to settle into a long term relationship because you know what you like/dislike and what it takes to make a relationship last? Obviously not. Are you suave enough or confident enough or good looking enough to get the attractive 20 something girl with multiple options? I would guess no again. Top that all off with the fact that you yourself say you stopped going out and doing anything. Where would you logically say you're standing a chance with the girls you want? You say you only want someone who "wow"s you. How many girls in your life have "wow'd you? If you say under 5 or under 10, then most would say that being turned down or not having success with 5-10 women is hardly the end of the world and a hopeless sign. Plus, if you're not going out, you're removing the ability to run into someone that impressed you completely. Lastly... People don't just develop dating and social skills in high school or teenagers. Ever hear of late bloomers? Ever hear of people who were shy or ugly or made fun of through high school and college? I mean talk about a million examples there. The overwhelming majority of humans aren't gifted at dating and finding a partner that they click with. If they were, then most people would marry the first person they date or hook up with. So here's a example of where you can alter your thinking as far as telling yourself "I missed the boat, there's no chance now". I'd also suggest trying to prove the fact that "some people just never will find someone or have success" that's a defeatist and preventative way of thinking. That should be obvious. Start sending replies with things like "ok I can see why you'd say that, what would you suggest doing/saying in this situation instead?" Or "perhaps that is true, I haven't seen it but it appears others have so I'll keep an open mind going forward" or "any ideas on what I can do or where I can go to find people who would be easier to start conversations with?" You'd be best leaving the thought of success out of your mind. Go out, take a class, join a group or hobby club and start socializing with no expectations. No ones gonna ask you to be your friend after 1 day. Slowly you build a rapport and others will "get" what kinda guy you are. That's when you or they will suggest "hey wanna grab a drink after this?" Or "I'm taking a new gym class next week if you wanna check it out with me". The thing is this, again there is a lot of logic there. I am quite happy to admit some of my thoughts may be wrong but nothing I have experienced suggests they are. As for giving all those things people supposedly want, well nobody has ever given me an opportunity to try so I don't know what I could or could not do. I cannot read women, have never been able to. Do I have dating confidence, no I don't, that's been smashed into the ground thanks to having no success at all. I don't go out, like many people who experience no success I just simply have nothing in common with people, I can go and sit at a bar, I don't drink so that's pointless. I can go and sit in a café and try and chat to people but they end up looking at me as if I am from Mars and there is nothing to talk about, no common ground. I tried a Meetup once and just found a bunch of people I had nothing in common with and again "lets go for a drink", society doesn't smile on people who don't drink for reasons other than religious ones. Number of people who wowed me, only 3, number of people I frivolously tried to date probably abound 15. I am human and often I simply resorted to taking anyone out to dinner from whatever dating site simply because I didn't want to sit on my own, it was better to try and converse with someone about nothing. I just feel as time goes on I am more and more isolated, I find myself trying to chase other things to try and not feel so unsuccessful at this. I have been through "what should I say in this situation" the fact remains I am not going to practice each an every line, I am going to say what I want to in that particular moment, I simply cannot walk around in "well if she looks at me like that I should say that", sorry I cannot operate like that. You say build a report with others but how exactly does one do that when one has nothing in common with others. I truly exist in my own world, my own interests, the experiences I have had are ones most cannot relate to, my interests are ones few can relate to. All these facts make it extremely difficult to built any sort of report, even with co workers. For an example a co worker tells me I should be going out to sleep with as many girls as possible, I don't see it like that for me success would be defined by having someone I can take out, I don't really care if she sleeps with me or not, considering my experience level I'd prefer she didn't so I don't have to feel like a complete idiot. Make no mistake you make good points but even when I was going out I never ever saw this sort of thing happening, be it in clubs, on the street, people have their own friends and their own groups, its extremely hard to get into those groups, especially if there is no common interest. I'd go to clubs, I'd try talk to random people but ended up getting looked down upon. The way I see it there is only one way to do this, pretend to like something that many people like in order to try and fit in. Probably the biggest problem I have is I have nobody to confide in about how utterly useless I feel, I tried with a long standing friend but he doesn't really understand, his solution was to send me for a makeover which hasn't made any difference at all, his solution is to put me in awkward positions with random girls "oh can you find him a gf" or "oh he really needs to get laid". None of these instances do anything to make me feel better so I simply stopped confiding in him. Objectively I am no closer at determining what makes some successful and others not, besides the fact those who seem to succeed all seem to have generic interests which are shared by ladies. How does one overcome that problem because I cannot seem to find a definitive way. Its inordinately frustrating to miss out each and every time I find someone I do like, finding these people is becoming more and more difficult, even when objectively it seems I could actually have success, somehow I never really find any. This last time I have decided to try and friend zone myself with the person simply because having her as a friend is better than nothing and at least then I do get some attention.
Empire87 Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 Well there are so many things that you could do differently or try that would give you more experience and knowledge yet you're refusing to do so apparently. You've been wow'd by 3 girls and interested in 15. At 32 I think most would tell you that you've had far less rejection than most and definitely not as much as you make it out to be. If you've stopped going out and trying then you're just stunting your growth completely. When you get to 100 girls that you were interested in and had no luck at all, then you can throw up your arms in despair. I have an overweight friend who was a virgin through HS and college and refused to approach girls or make a move on any girls besides the best looking ones in the place. At 28 he finally ended up getting one of those girls and if you asked he'd probably tell you that over 100 had turned him down in the time up till then. No one helped him either, it was a random girl and happened on its own. They dated for a couple months and that was that. You're saying that you've been to clubs and places like that with no luck. Well obviously with your personality those are the wrong places to go. People don't go to clubs with loud music or a bar by themselves usually. So if you're putting yourself in situations where you have to separate a girl from her friends or compete with groups of people in crowded places, you don't stand a chance. And that's not your fault. Most guys don't stand a chance in that scenario. You say that you don't have any thing in common with people. 1. How would you know if you don't talk to them and get to know them? I've had friends for years and will find things out that they're into which j never knew about and end up bonding over. Making that decision that you don't have anything in common within a few minutes or first date is careless and not even trying. To follow that, you stated that one of your attributes was having the ability to converse because you have general knowledge about a lot of things. I'm confused here. Wouldn't that mean that you could discuss and relate to generally everyone with that quality in you? If not, then perhaps your mis representing yourself and saying things that you "hope and want to be true" but actually aren't. Everyone can take an honest look at what they are good at so try that and see what comes up. The people who tell you "just sleep with girls etc" are just giving you their lack of interest answer to your obvious problem of getting dates. It's not an actual option that you should take seriously. That's what people who don't care and aren't interested in helping you will say to just give you something to work with. How do you build a rapport with people? You spend time with them and don't expect anything out of it. Trying to get in the friendzone is a goal you shouldn't have. Meet people just to meet people. If you never seethem again so what. Maybe you'll find out an interesting story they have or find out about a job or event that you had no prior knowledge of. Then you will have that to use as something to discuss for future interactions.
Empire87 Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 Forgot to add that you just replied with something you could have avoided and changed. "Make no mistake, you make good points, BUT...." No but.. That entire reply was just you telling me "yea I guess, but here's why you're wrong and I still think I'm right". If that's the way you go about your social interactions then it 1000% is something women will pick up on and not like. What should you do? Ask yourself or tell us here what is something you enjoy doing. What is something, could be a topic, a hobby, whatever that you could spend time hearing about? You have a favorite band? Music? Concerts and small venues are places where you can go and everyone there has something in common with you... The band. You like writing? Take a calligraphy class. You'll sit next to someone who is artistic and creative or trying something new as well. Don't go sit next to an old lady when you go. Pick a seat next to a girl you find pretty. You don't like drinking? Are you a health nut? Gyms, trainers, marathons, obstacle course events can be trained for with groups of people. You like traveling? There's a million groups and clubs you can join that go away together for trips. If you actually put effort into it instead of standing by the "I suck at getting girls in clubs and don't like beer. Guess that's it for me" attitude then there's a world of options out there
Author ZA Dater Posted March 22, 2016 Author Posted March 22, 2016 That's the settle down age for the most part all over the world. Does that mean that most people settle down at 27? Absolutely not. In this day and age women are more independent than ever, go to college, establish careers for themselves. So if that's more prevalent nowadays then the age women remain single for goes up as well. We all know that couple who got married out of college, or the ones that start getting engaged. Go to those peoples weddings. Ill bet you that most or at least a bunch of their friends/guests are not "the next to get hitched" or with someone at all. Why do you think weddings are such a common answer people give when asked "so how'd you guys meet?". If they met at a friends wedding when they're 27-30, then date for at least a year , you do the math. Mid thirties will become more and more common going forward for the avg age people get married. Trendy? I can't state enough how off base I feel your views on what "generally is true" are. Trendy in the area I live now can vary depending on which part of the city you live in. Know the term "hipsters"? What about "conservative"? Trendy isn't a popular thing that everyone abides by whatsoever. It's trendy in California to surf. Does that mean girls won't like you if you ski? Deciding not to be mainstream is probably what most people do believe it or not. The "anti norm" or socially rebellious types. Matter of fact, other than the "jocks and cool kids" in high school, EVERYONE else is not "mainstream" By your definition. Seriously look at the points you make about others around you based of your reality perceptions. It's not that hard to just tell yourself you're going to resist putting people into the stereotypes that you've built in your head if you really think about it. Ok, lets assume my views are wrong. What in your opinion are the qualities which make someone attractive and likely to enjoy more success?
Author ZA Dater Posted March 22, 2016 Author Posted March 22, 2016 Forgot to add that you just replied with something you could have avoided and changed. "Make no mistake, you make good points, BUT...." No but.. That entire reply was just you telling me "yea I guess, but here's why you're wrong and I still think I'm right". If that's the way you go about your social interactions then it 1000% is something women will pick up on and not like. What should you do? Ask yourself or tell us here what is something you enjoy doing. What is something, could be a topic, a hobby, whatever that you could spend time hearing about? You have a favorite band? Music? Concerts and small venues are places where you can go and everyone there has something in common with you... The band. You like writing? Take a calligraphy class. You'll sit next to someone who is artistic and creative or trying something new as well. Don't go sit next to an old lady when you go. Pick a seat next to a girl you find pretty. You don't like drinking? Are you a health nut? Gyms, trainers, marathons, obstacle course events can be trained for with groups of people. You like traveling? There's a million groups and clubs you can join that go away together for trips. If you actually put effort into it instead of standing by the "I suck at getting girls in clubs and don't like beer. Guess that's it for me" attitude then there's a world of options out there I have resigned myself to my own reality, just trying to figure out where I went so drastically wrong in life which has caused me to be so undesirable and unsuccessful at dating. Figure out why other have done so much better then me, why they didn't need to resort to contrived social things like meetup and dating sites and tinder and seeking arrangement etc. How many unsuccessful people have large groups of friends, I'd wager very few. Simply put I spend most of my day working at something or other, be it a novel I am attempting to write, to the social club I manage. I try keep myself distracted from the aforementioned reality. I just simply don't want to go out there, I want to know what people want before I go out there, decide if I can meet those wants and if not I am not going to even try. Far too much of my life is full of the spectre of rejection. Again unsuccessful people versus successful people...
Empire87 Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 Ok, lets assume my views are wrong. What in your opinion are the qualities which make someone attractive and likely to enjoy more success? I can only tell you what is attractive to me. That's the whole point. No one is going to give you the generic answer you're looking for. If you ask me what qualities in a girl I find attractive, I can give you a list. But I can also meet a girl who had every one of those qualities and I could not feel interested or "wow'd" By her at all. There's no real reason for it. On paper she should be perfect for me. But that doesn't mean it's a given. Hence why you wanting to figure out what general qualities women like and make men more successful is a useless search. You're gonna get the same BS answers from everyone. (Be mature, have a sense of humor, carry a conversation, be a gentleman, be loyal, respect me, treat the concerns I have with seriousness, make me feel special and attractive to you, have pride in what you do and support what I do... And on and on it goes) I don't know what you really expect to do with that information. Check off what you think you possess out of that list? Yell at the girls or society for not realizing you have the things they want? Where's that get you? Same spot you are now.
Empire87 Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 I have resigned myself to my own reality, just trying to figure out where I went so drastically wrong in life which has caused me to be so undesirable and unsuccessful at dating. Figure out why other have done so much better then me, why they didn't need to resort to contrived social things like meetup and dating sites and tinder and seeking arrangement etc. How many unsuccessful people have large groups of friends, I'd wager very few. Simply put I spend most of my day working at something or other, be it a novel I am attempting to write, to the social club I manage. I try keep myself distracted from the aforementioned reality. I just simply don't want to go out there, I want to know what people want before I go out there, decide if I can meet those wants and if not I am not going to even try. Far too much of my life is full of the spectre of rejection. Again unsuccessful people versus successful people... Tell me how this makes sense. You're wondering what people do and how they've been successful without resorting to social arrangements or tinder/online dating sites, or social coaching? Can you tell me why Tinder, match.com, and the countless other dating/social sites have MILLLLLIONSSS of members/users if it wasn't the norm for socializing and meeting people these days???!? You're saying you don't want to "resort" to that... Your implying that it's a pathetic and last ditch avenue for losers who aren't normal. Literally everyone uses some form of a social or dating app nowadays. You're not doing yourself any favors here by saying things like this. You'd wager unsuccessful people don't have friends.... Well good thing that your bet would prove absolutely nothing then right? I previously gave you an example of a friend of mine who had TONS of rejection for over a decade. He's got friends. I asked you what you'd like to spend time doing. If you can't give people here and answer then what can be done to suggest options to you? You're writing a novel? Ok then. What's the subject matter? I'm gonna guess it's about something others would know about right? So there must be people who you can associate with that share that interest? You manage a social club? What kind of club is it? What goes on there and how often do you meet? Men? Women? Details here would help. "I simply don't want to go out there" - If you can't get past this then I'm sorry but there's nothing I can offer you that will give you the things you want without stepping out into the world and participating. You have to put yourself in uncomfortable situations unfortunately. But fortunately.... It's not something that you'd be the first person in the world to do.
Author ZA Dater Posted March 22, 2016 Author Posted March 22, 2016 Tell me how this makes sense. You're wondering what people do and how they've been successful without resorting to social arrangements or tinder/online dating sites, or social coaching? Can you tell me why Tinder, match.com, and the countless other dating/social sites have MILLLLLIONSSS of members/users if it wasn't the norm for socializing and meeting people these days???!? You're saying you don't want to "resort" to that... Your implying that it's a pathetic and last ditch avenue for losers who aren't normal. Literally everyone uses some form of a social or dating app nowadays. You're not doing yourself any favors here by saying things like this. You'd wager unsuccessful people don't have friends.... Well good thing that your bet would prove absolutely nothing then right? I previously gave you an example of a friend of mine who had TONS of rejection for over a decade. He's got friends. I asked you what you'd like to spend time doing. If you can't give people here and answer then what can be done to suggest options to you? You're writing a novel? Ok then. What's the subject matter? I'm gonna guess it's about something others would know about right? So there must be people who you can associate with that share that interest? You manage a social club? What kind of club is it? What goes on there and how often do you meet? Men? Women? Details here would help. "I simply don't want to go out there" - If you can't get past this then I'm sorry but there's nothing I can offer you that will give you the things you want without stepping out into the world and participating. You have to put yourself in uncomfortable situations unfortunately. But fortunately.... It's not something that you'd be the first person in the world to do. I have been on various OLD platforms for years. At least 7 years. I type messages and get no response, granted that's acceptable, rude but seemingly acceptable. I do not believe OLD is anyone's first choice of dating method and this really is confirmed by the people I have interacted with the met from dating sites. What do I do, well I write in my spare time, the last person I met also has an interest in writing and I still work with her on articles, like me she has a very refined vocabulary. Before you tell me to try writing classes, I have been there and again what I do find, nobody young and nobody of interest at all. The club I manage is made up older people, married people there are no club members my age, we all get on because its a common interest club, one I have been involved in for 10+ years. It also happens to be a prestigious club. Here is an example, we have an event and as usual there are hired waitresses so I think this is a perfect opportunity, there is one who is fairly friendly, I try to get her number, she isn't interested, older guy has no issue getting her number, in fact she flocks to him like a bee to honey. I am really tired of hearing "oh you need to get rejected by 100 people", this is patently false, I do not know one person who has needed to try with 100 people to get more than one date. Simply put I call fiction on this and furthermore there is no statistic of any kind to support it. Unsuccessful people battle with confidence and I am told this is the alpha and omega of dating, one is supposed to exude utter confidence. How and where one finds this is a mystery to me. Successful daters I have met all have charm and confidence, finding charm is incredibly hard, I have tried but my pragmatic approach to life is deemed to be sour apparently. As for the friend zone, I'd rather be friends with someone I really like than try and date someone I am not interested in. Stepping out is fine enough, I go out, I shop, I do all the normal things people do but the scope to meet people is extremely limited. The most limiting thing for me is the logic I apply to all situations. Pretty girl in a store, definitely has a bf. Problem I have is zero confidence, absolutely nothing when it comes to females.
elaine567 Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 To follow that up, you say your target is 22-27yo. Here's a fact. The 22-27 yo girl that dates a man in his 30's is generally a socially mature and self confident girl who has a reason for dating a man 5-10 years her senior. Those reasons are that she's attracted to the maturity an older man provides, the stable/long term lifestyle possibilities, less games/drama that a college guy or guy her age would bring, the list goes on. Take an honest look at yourself. Are you someone who can navigate dating and reading women pretty well? I would say no. Are you someone who is ready to settle into a long term relationship because you know what you like/dislike and what it takes to make a relationship last? Obviously not. Are you suave enough or confident enough or good looking enough to get the attractive 20 something girl with multiple options? I would guess no again. Thing is, she can also date "more mature", "more serious" guys in their late twenties and never have to cross that "thirty" barrier. Some not looking for older, can be "persuaded" into dating "older" too. A more attractive, probably richer guy, maybe a highly sociable guy, a guy with "something" that makes him stand out from the crowd can be elevated to "desirable". He may then be able to to sweep her off her feet, so much so, she ignores his age. Some pretty average people can talk the hind legs off and donkey and can sell themselves so convincingly that age is no longer an issue too. Some just never grow up, so their "immaturity", "boyish charm" and/or a truly "youthful outlook" can appeal to a younger age group. Now do not see ZA Dater in there? Not really. Managing to get any young woman with a load of options at 22-27 is totally unrealistic, unless he can make a load of changes to his life and I really do not see that happening, with the attitude displayed here. We can all go window shopping for the most expensive, desirable stuff in the world, but if WE lack the cash, then they stay in the shop until someone with loads of cash buys them. SOO we either lower our sights to stuff we CAN buy, or we go out determined to make the cash, or we can sit whining as to how it is just NOT fair. 1
Author ZA Dater Posted March 22, 2016 Author Posted March 22, 2016 Thing is, she can also date "more mature", "more serious" guys in their late twenties and never have to cross that "thirty" barrier. Some not looking for older, can be "persuaded" into dating "older" too. A more attractive, probably richer guy, maybe a highly sociable guy, a guy with "something" that makes him stand out from the crowd can be elevated to "desirable". He may then be able to to sweep her off her feet, so much so, she ignores his age. Some pretty average people can talk the hind legs off and donkey and can sell themselves so convincingly that age is no longer an issue too. Some just never grow up, so their "immaturity", "boyish charm" and/or a truly "youthful outlook" can appeal to a younger age group. Now do not see ZA Dater in there? Not really. Managing to get any young woman with a load of options at 22-27 is totally unrealistic, unless he can make a load of changes to his life and I really do not see that happening, with the attitude displayed here. We can all go window shopping for the most expensive, desirable stuff in the world, but if WE lack the cash, then they stay in the shop until someone with loads of cash buys them. SOO we either lower our sights to stuff we CAN buy, or we go out determined to make the cash, or we can sit whining as to how it is just NOT fair. Kudos, you used my favourite shop analogy. Thanks for telling me I need to look for the ladies nobody wants, that's hugely demotivating and demeaning. Basically what you just said here is intangible counts for nothing, its all superficial. Now I know why some guys are successful and other are not, thanks for answering the question in such a candid to the point way.
elaine567 Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 Successful daters I have met all have charm and confidence, finding charm is incredibly hard, I have tried but my pragmatic approach to life is deemed to be sour apparently. Well if you are aware of that, then stop doing it, bite your tongue, stop putting a downer on stuff. Forget the "pragmatism" if it is negative and start thinking of positive spins.
elaine567 Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 Kudos, you used my favourite shop analogy. Thanks for telling me I need to look for the ladies nobody wants, that's hugely demotivating and demeaning. Basically what you just said here is intangible counts for nothing, its all superficial. Now I know why some guys are successful and other are not, thanks for answering the question in such a candid to the point way. Come on now "the ladies nobody wants", so all ladies older than 27 need to curl up and die... 2
Author ZA Dater Posted March 22, 2016 Author Posted March 22, 2016 Come on now "the ladies nobody wants", so all ladies older than 27 need to curl up and die... You can apply that logic to 28-32yo too. In terms of the store, those who are less desirable remain on the shelf for longer. Only way one can have a decent pick is to pick younger. Believe me I have tried to be less negative, I really have the reality isn't positive so its quite tough to put a positive spin on things which are not. For example I am once again required to attend a dinner/night away and once again I forced to look at tinder/dating sites in the hope I can find someone to at least do the dinner part. Its not a positive situation at all, sure I can go on my own and once again stick out. I think unsuccessful people carry that on their sleeve, I am guilty of it and I try not to do it but every interaction I have seems to just magnify that and my inexperience, I really do try to hide this but somehow it always seems to seep through. Its suggested that unsuccessful people take up hobbies, most of us do have hobbies, usually not mainstream ones. People asked what makes me happy, one thing that makes me happy is to collaborate on articles with someone I like for their personality and her ability to push me to be better, do better just be a better me. Everything she radiates is positivity and "can do". Its the only time ever I found someone who has similar interests and challenges me in that way. A friend zone is the absolute best I can ever hope for but undoubtedly my interactions with her certainly brighten up my life.
elaine567 Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 You can apply that logic to 28-32yo too. In terms of the store, those who are less desirable remain on the shelf for longer. Only way one can have a decent pick is to pick younger. But for YOU, there is no "decent pick" if very few 22-27 year olds would even consider dating a 32 y o man, especially one who has himself been very much "left on the shelf". YOU are over emphasising your own worth to that demographic. 1
Author ZA Dater Posted March 22, 2016 Author Posted March 22, 2016 But for YOU, there is no "decent pick" if very few 22-27 year olds would even consider dating a 32 y o man, especially one who has himself been very much "left on the shelf". YOU are over emphasising your own worth to that demographic. I don't really think there is a demographic I am particularly suited to. Again I think perhaps successful people tailor themselves to one specific demographic and then work from there. Self worth is to me partially defined by how desirable others find the person.
Author ZA Dater Posted March 22, 2016 Author Posted March 22, 2016 But for YOU, there is no "decent pick" if very few 22-27 year olds would even consider dating a 32 y o man, especially one who has himself been very much "left on the shelf". YOU are over emphasising your own worth to that demographic. I don't really think there is a demographic I am particularly suited to. Again I think perhaps successful people tailor themselves to one specific demographic and then work from there. Self worth is to me partially defined by how desirable others find me as a person. I must take the blame for being left on the shelf because believe me had I realised sooner I should be like everyone else I would definitely not have made such an effort to not be like everyone else!
elaine567 Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 I don't really think there is a demographic I am particularly suited to. As your friends are indeed forty plus, then I guess that is where you fit in best. I guess you are what many would call an "old soul", hence the obvious lack of connection with those of your own age and younger - it also explains your fruitless search among women in their early twenties. Who wants to date someone who acts like their "dad", at that age?
SammySammy Posted March 22, 2016 Posted March 22, 2016 Ok, lets assume my views are wrong. What in your opinion are the qualities which make someone attractive and likely to enjoy more success? Positive attitude.Positive, constructive and helpful belief system.Take action.Effective strategy.Learn and be persistent. Success starts with a positive attitude and supportive beliefs. "They can because they think they can." ~ Virgil Next, you have to take action. The key is how we take action. Simply put, we need the right strategy - doing the things that lead to success, not doing the things that impede success. Then, do those things until we succeed. Understanding that we're going to fail - a lot. That's part of the process. Learning. Growth. Make sure you learn from your experiences. Take notes. Observe. Reflect. Read. Study. Then strive to continuously improve. They say practice makes perfect. That's not true. PERFECT practice makes perfect. Doing the right things the right way consistently while striving to continuously improve. That's what it takes to succeed in any area of our lives. Including dating. How we look and our circumstances play only a small role in dating success. How we think and what we do is paramount.
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