Did you believe you'd wind up with MM because BW would leave?

March 12, 2016

I'm single, he is married. We were long distance, probably saw each other 12-20 times a year for seven years.

I believe him when he says the sex was infrequent and vanilla. I believe him when he says there were many times in his marriage he did have to beg for it. I believe him when he says she told him "no" more often than yes. So, since I think that is the truth, I really wanted to end things without him feeling rejected again.

We had a scheduling gap that both of us knew about in advance. We wouldn't be able to see each other for 10-12 weeks. Again, I knew it was the last time.

I had also dated sporadically during the time I was with him. Lots of first dates, several second dates and few third dates. Rare fourth dates, by then I know there wasn't a connection and I knew I wasn't going to have sex or a relationship with them.

So, I invented a new man. Blind date, set up by a friend. Someone who works in a type of job I'm interested in. This invented, blind date and I hit it off. By the time the 10-12 weeks were up and MM and I had a clear schedule, I'm sort of involved with this guy. MM and I still talked during that 10-12 weeks, so it was a gradual process.

It's been two years since it ended. I've kept actual notes on this made up guy. Since I still talk with xMM and have no desire to admit that I concocted this scheme.

Again, totally cockamamie, juvenile and ridiculous. But is was what I felt was the best way. He wouldn't ask me to cheat (and he hasn't). He was being rejected because someone could give me what I wanted and deserved, not because I didn't desire him.

Wow! 7 years is a long time. I am not sure how you carried on your R for so long. I couldn't possibly use your reason for ending it since I am married. I am impressed that you can still have contact with your MM. I am pretty sure I could not have contact after I end our A because it is going to hurt like hell to end it. I can appreciate trying not to hurt your MM. I do not want to hurt my MM, but I think he would agree that it would be best for us to end it. I am pretty sure he would like to keep it going as long as possible and I have thought of trying to just keeping our A going and try not to think of the fact that I can only have him part time and it will never lead to anything. This of course would be and has been really hard on me.

March 12, 2016

Wow! 7 years is a long time. I am not sure how you carried on your R for so long. I couldn't possibly use your reason for ending it since I am married. I am impressed that you can still have contact with your MM. I am pretty sure I could not have contact after I end our A because it is going to hurt like hell to end it. I can appreciate trying not to hurt your MM. I do not want to hurt my MM, but I think he would agree that it would be best for us to end it. I am pretty sure he would like to keep it going as long as possible and I have thought of trying to just keeping our A going and try not to think of the fact that I can only have him part time and it will never lead to anything. This of course would be and has been really hard on me.

It was a great sexual connection for both of us, that developed into a friendship. I still don't think we loved each other. At the time we met, it was convenient for both of us. I was really too busy to pursue a real relationship with anyone, but I was horny. He had to work around my schedule as well. So often it seems the Other is stuck waiting for the AP to steal a few minutes here and there.

Sorry my plan won't work for you. It helped being long distance and single.

March 12, 2016

I never wanted my MM to have a D day and I never wanted one for me. I thought we would both leave our Ms and end up together because it seemed like we were both unhappy in our Ms. I assumed he felt the same way as I did. You know what they say about assuming things. Anyway, MM never future faked me and after a year told me he wouldn't leave his wife, but I never wanted a D day. I didn't want him to go through all that pain and drama. It would have been awful, and no matter what, I cared and loved my MM and wouldn't want him to be miserable. Oddly, one of the reasons for me wanting to end the A now, is because I don't want him to have to go through a D day. He told me recently that his family would kill him and several close friends would be disappointed in him. A D day would destroy him. I don't want that.

Babs22 (good name by the way!) I felt the same. I knew he hadmuch more to lose and yes, I'm very sad and grieving the loss of my A (even though I ended it and went NC) and yes, I secretly hoped he would run back to me after NC. But I also never ever wanted him to lose everything because of me. He's lost a lot already just by having a DD but this was the first A either of us had and you do think you are impervious to getting caught. During our last goodbye we sadly wished each other well and even though it was incredibly sad to walk away part of me know I sacrificed my own happiness so he wouldn't lose anymore than he already had (I never had a DD).

March 12, 2016

the most drastic thing the OW do to force a D--Day is pregnancy -- you wouldn't believe how common it actually is.

This is an awful truth and the pain lasts lifetimes. My H and I have had ringside seats for the fallout from this in three generations of his family. His grandfather, father and brother all had children with mistresses (and yes, all were mistresses in the old-fashioned, "kept woman" sense, not GFs or APs as recognized here).

A few years ago, BIL's very young OW "accidentally" got pregnant. She expressed her expectations. She wanted the life his daughters led. Had she had any real contact with the family, she'd have known that he'd blown through his own money, had only ever worked for his wife's company and all the real assets were his wife's inheritance. So wife, daughters and grandchildren were all devastated and are . And for what?

March 12, 2016

I think I mentioned this already, but to comment here - no I never wanted a dday. I never wanted to be with my MM just because his wife had thrown him out. My MM often talked about telling her. He said it was too difficult to leave "without a reason". He'd spoken to her about them separating the year prior - and when she asked if there was someone else he denied it - but she just kept saying she didn't understand then why he'd go when they had children. She felt it was better for them to just continue in their roommate almost business like relationship for sake of kids ... And he found it hard to argue with that.

For three months up to dday my MM spoke a lot about telling her and leaving, but I staunchly said time and again I did not want that. I didn't want to cause her that pain (which I think must be so much worse then separating for other reasons) and also on a selfish point, I felt it would make our relationship (and my relationship with her and his kids and friends and family etc.) so much harder as a result. My ideal would have been for them to separate for their own reasons and then for us to see if we would work out and was quite prepared to continue to keep it underground for a while until appropriate to declare ourselves a newly formed couple etc. I told him time and again I didn't want you to leave your marriage for me - I want you to leave as it's the right thing for you - and that I absolutely did not want a dday.

... Over that same three months my MM became much more lax with deleting texts, much more risky about calling me when out with kids, much more cavalier to see me more often and frequently stay overnight. I even texted him a few times on his way home to stay "remember to delete your texts, do it now" etc. As a result of all his time away I guess she got suspicious, checked his phone, and saw texts he hadn't deleted. I will never know for sure but I suspect my MM wanted to force a dday. I strongly suspect when dday happened he wanted her to throw him out. When I commented she only thought it was three months and not two years he even asked me if I thought he should tell her it had been two years and did I think then she would change her mind?!?!

When dday happened I actually was really disappointed and anxious about what that would mean for us and our relationship EITHER way. Not just if he stayed, but if he left under that circumstance.

What I think happened to him at dday was reality slapped him the face, he saw her upset and pleading, he saw his kids crying and pleading, and he just could not do it to them..... I am not sure if he thought it would be a lot easier; she'd find out, throw him out and everyone would move on... Ahem... I guess that's what my MM was like. I know some (especially the BS on this forum from what I have read recently) might well say that maybe he forced a dday to end our A. Maybe. Guess I will never really truly know that, but his behaviour afterwards makes me think that is less likely (but not impossible).

Sorry I mean xMM! Must keep remembering to say that!

March 12, 2016

I meant to add, I think just as there are many different BS there are also many different OW. I can definitely see how some might do this, force a dday I mean. Another couple had an affair in my work and that OW definitely forced a dday. I actually lost a lot of my kindered spirit sympathetic feelings towards her after that!

March 12, 2016

I am actually surprised more OW do not force a dday.

Why sit back and let a MM lie to both women. for weeks, months, even years???

WE all know MM tend to be cake eaters, why do women let him get away with it?

If he loves the OW like he says he does then why not tell the world including his wife?

Why don't more women take the initiative?

March 12, 2016

So, while I think you made posts about the OW being kind of trashy or low class, if you're keeping this prince of a fellow, I think she got the better deal at the end of the day.

You must be thinking of someone else. I don't view economic status or social standing as anything other than a random result of where and to whom we are born. And OW comes from another country with an entirely different class structure anyway.

March 12, 2016

I think my xMM was completely shocked at his wife's reaction to his A on DD and the few weeks following. We had a small DD about 7 months prior that he quickly recovered from so he was always Xtra careful with texts. However, that dreaded night he got lax and "forgot" to delete a string of texts that started early that morning with a sweet good morning using my pet name, continuing throughout the day ( normal stuff, sharing life, flirting) and ending with him saying he got lectured when he got home late and he was going to bed with my usual xxx. He fell asleep on the couch and didn't lock his phone. She found it and went searching ( she was still suspicious from DD #1). She went off the deep end and a ledge all at once.

Even if he had wanted to be discovered or had any plans to leave her, I think that all changed as the hours following DD unfolded. He saw her fall apart before his eyes and I think that killed him. 25 years together and for him to know that he caused her that kind of pain. Heck, I don't even know her and I'm devastated that I did that to her. She couldn't stop shaking, couldn't eat, sleep... Add to the fact her mom is dying of cancer so she was already an emotional wreck. She's still trolling my social media so it makes me think it's still pretty raw.

The bottom line is, even if he is bottom of the barrel miserable right now I know he will not leave her. Even its for friendship or respect for the 25 years- he feels obligated to fix this mess. Who knows if their marriage will ever recover, I have my doubts but I can't sit, wait and wonder. It's better and more healthy for me to just assume there is no hope and move forward. I have to for my own sanity and well being.

March 12, 2016

I dated some guys who were separating and divorcing and even if they do stay with you after, they now consider themselves free to date others as well, generally.

March 13, 2016

I am actually surprised more OW do not force a dday.
Why sit back and let a MM lie to both women. for weeks, months, even years???
WE all know MM tend to be cake eaters, why do women let him get away with it?
If he loves the OW like he says he does then why not tell the world including his wife?
Why don't more women take the initiative?

Elaine,

Have you ever loved anyone?

Has that person who you loved caused a lot of pain?

Have you felt hurt by that's person's actions?

Have you ever wished you could hurt them back but then stopped yourself from that train of thought and instead tormented yourself?

Why? because when you love someone deeply (whether it's right or wrong), you just simply, just absolutely, just can't hurt that person.

It's that simple.

So, many of "these OW" torture themselves, but just can't hurt the MM who they loved once.

Makes sense?

Love is crazy and irrational and stupid. And it hurts like hell.

March 13, 2016

You must be thinking of someone else. I don't view economic status or social standing as anything other than a random result of where and to whom we are born. And OW comes from another country with an entirely different class structure anyway.

I had you confused with MidwestMissy.

In this instance I was referring to low class/no class behavior, not income status. You can be wealthy and still be trashy rather than classy.

March 13, 2016

Elaine,
Have you ever loved anyone?

Has that person who you loved caused a lot of pain?

Have you felt hurt by that's person's actions?

Have you ever wished you could hurt them back but then stopped yourself from that train of thought and instead tormented yourself?

Why? because when you love someone deeply (whether it's right or wrong), you just simply, just absolutely, just can't hurt that person.

It's that simple.

So, many of "these OW" torture themselves, but just can't hurt the MM who they loved once.

Makes sense?
Love is crazy and irrational and stupid. And it hurts like hell.

Burnt- you are absolutely right... Sometimes letting someone go shows greater love than holding on.

March 13, 2016

I never thought of forcing a DD ever. Our A was dicovered by a credit card statement. XMM went crazy for a few days. He even called me to comfort him, telling me how scared he was of losing everything. This reaction showed me right then and there who he really wants to be with. Also, from what I knew about his wife, I was almost 100% sure that she will not kick him out and I was constantly reassuring him of that. He did not believe me though and was super surprised by her reaction. She changed towards him and expressed a sincere desire to save their marriage, and, by doing this, she won him over in the matter of days (I admit, I was impressed by how she dealt with this, too). This came to show me yet again who he wants to be with and whom he was craving attention from. I've never wondered why she would take him back. They've built a life together, have young kids, have big plans for the future, and, obviously, still love each other. Also, after seeing his reaction in the face of this disaster, I realized that he had never considered me seriously. He let his wife make all the decisions and was hoping for her to take him back. I was an option only in the case of him failing to fix it with her and when I was presented with this option, I said that no, I didn't want to be your last resort.

March 13, 2016

I swear affairs are disasters. Why would a bw stay just so the ow doesn't get her dream? Why not leave the two at it move on and live life. Their relationship would getting boring cause the secret is out....then he regrets leaving the original marriage but by that time you moved on. Married men and women who cheat look to get love from like the angel - real partner and devil - affair partner.

March 13, 2016

But I never stopped loving him, I'm just not sure that's worth much except to pat myself on the back for my loyalty. Yay me.

"I never stopped loving him." That's beautiful, Midwestmissy. And it's worth huge amount, imo.

March 13, 2016

Lady, the mow used affairs to get ahead in jobs instead of a work ethic. Or at least tried. That's what made her trashy and crass. Words that clients used to describe her, embarassingly. I shake my head at her, not people in her income bracket. My wh and I were raised lower middle class by hard workers, and we used education to make a better life. Trailer parks and subsidized housing were in the areas I grew up, the only privilege was school. I knew I wanted out.

Wh and mow used each other and closed their eyes to reality. He knew what she was character-wise, but her flattering was worth it at the time. She wrote so much out in emails, which is how I got so much info about her. He also holds himself more responsible for this, he knew every decision he was making was stupid, when red flags went up, he ignored them. He was very self loathing and didn't respect himself, his work or anyone. She didn't respect herself or her job. Wh is doing hard work on himself right now, and she continues to disrupt. He wants to reconcile or at least be the man the kids will respect again. As the bs, none of this is easy. After so many years together, I'm open to seeing his efforts.

She has a husband who's a teacher and 4 healthy kids, she's 50. Her family is an accomplishment. Regardless of income, she has a choice to lead a respectable life, but she's still carrying on and making an ugly name for herself. People who don't know about the affair talk to me about her due to work. While there's no contact, it's a small industry, so her presence is there. I bite my tongue and vent here. I get to get the venom out on these boards and not discuss her IRL. Annoying for the readers, good for me.

March 13, 2016

In my life I've had the misfortune of being the OW several times

.

Sounds more like repetitive bad choices than misfortune .... unless of course you were deceived about the marital status every time.

March 13, 2016

[Disclaimer: I ramble on and on here. Trying to get to the root of my thoughts and feelings.]

I suppose another title could have been "Would you play the Pick Me game?" Or did you?

If you begin a relationship with a married person, you know that any future you might have with him will entail him picking one of you.

Puzzling out why the OW would act as she did has been something I needed to do. I'm not sure why, really. But like all aspects of the affair, I feel the need to look at it from every angle until I understand how and why it happened. Then I can put it on the shelf. And while the biggest piece of the puzzle is my husband and his choices and the weaknesses that led to them, part of the puzzle is also why a person whom my husband obviously found attractive (I don't mean physically, I mean for the whole package) would make the choices she did.

One of my weaknesses is an inability to predict how most people think. I'm an INTJ which means that I am very analytical and my self-esteem derives almost entirely from my opinion of myself. I know without a doubt that I would not be in the situation OW put herself in. Though my dating history is short since I met my husband as a teenager, I did have a great love with my high school sweetheart, who dumped me when he went to college. I was devastated but I also knew absolutely that I would never chase or beg or try to convince someone who could manage to live without me. I considered following him to college but I chose a school in the opposite direction instead.

Another instance is when I met my husband, and we hung out two nights in a row, pretending to study for class but flirting instead. I was totally smitten, but then he called and told me he hoped I wasn't getting the wrong impression because he was dating someone. I immediately ran away and avoided him for 3 months, even though he instantly broke up with her. Again, I had no desire to be involved in someone else's relationship, and I questioned his integrity for obviously giving me the wrong impression and hiding the fact he was dating someone. Now, as every OW knows, that relationship was nearly over (he had studied abroad over the summer and they hadn't even seen each other since he got back), but that still didn't matter to me. Call me when you're single. (So yes, looking back I see the weaknesses in his character were always there.)

All this is to say that I was completely, utterly confused that a single woman would pin all her hopes on my husband under the guise of goodness and love. On DD I remember saying, "But I don't understand! Why would a single woman who could date anyone she wants fall in love with a married father on another continent? What's in it for her?" Because I viewed it as beneath all women. And WH, kind man that he is, threw her right under the bus. "Well, the truth is she has really low self-esteem." I said, "What? Why? It's not that hard!" But I realize that for many people it is hard.

So likewise, I didn't play the Pick Me! game on DD. I was shocked, yes. To go from thinking your life is normal and stable to finding out that your husband was contemplating whether he should leave you for his great love for someone else . . . mind blown, heart broken. And I am a SAHM with health issues and could not work if I wanted to. But still, I'd be OK financially in a divorce, so I was able to act on principle and not fear. I just said, ew, yuck, you should definitely go be with your great love because . . . ew . . .

Meanwhile, OW with her oversharing was plastering the internet with declarations of never giving up and how God would work the timing out, yadda yadda yadda. So again I'm thinking, wait, after you're rejected, you're still going to hang on? But I guess it's a natural extension of all the choices she had already made. She already thought a man who would lie and cheat to be with her was a suitable conquest. She already dismissed his statements that he wouldn't be a part-time father and that you can't unring a bell. She surely believed that he was choosing between happiness and honor. (Actually, he had already chosen dishonor and unhappiness. They go together.)

More than what this stranger thought mattering, what concerns me is that my husband bought into this line of thinking. I guess I do see how he has always been very influenced by my lead; when I've decided which causes or organizations or groups of friends were worth my time, he would follow suit. He has plenty of his own interests but the whole "these are the things we care about" and "this is how we make decisions" has been influenced heavily by me. And I can't decide if that's good (because we make a good team, me with my principles and him with his free spirit and spontaneity) or if it just means he needs to figure out who HE is at his core. Because all of a sudden OW with her "Life is short; break the rules" comes along (another quote from her glorious social media) and he's all, YES. LET'S DO THAT. So has he only been a principled person because that's who I am? And if yes, is that OK? Does it mean he knew he was choosing a mate who made up for his weaknesses with her strengths, and vice versa?

Really really rambling here, sorry for the stream of consciousness. Just trying to get to the bottom of things. In his personal life, WH does choose principled friends. In fact, he confided in 3 friends during the affair. He didn't tell them he was having a PA, but he said, "I'm conflicted because I have feelings for this other woman." All three of them were like wait, WHAT? None of them were encouraging or viewed it through the same "but it's true love" lens as he did. One of them gave him the name of an IC. That was an important turning point for him. The affair carried on (without physical contact due to distance) but it was on a downward trajectory until DD. My guess is that OW sensed that. He had just been out of touch with her for a week while he and I were on holiday in the Caribbean. Even though he had stopped posting pictures of me, we had been doing so many things together that several other people tagged us recently. I'm sure she saw the writing on the wall. And so she instigated a DD.

WH, bless his heart, will never allow that she might have done it on purpose. Likewise, when she included him on a group email 3 months after DD, he said she must have included him by accident. You know, because she was so happy being his secret, long-distance girlfriend indefinitely and wasn't "in it to win it" . . .

March 13, 2016

Lady, the mow used affairs to get ahead in jobs instead of a work ethic. Or at least tried. That's what made her trashy and crass. Words that clients used to describe her, embarassingly. I shake my head at her, not people in her income bracket. My wh and I were raised lower middle class by hard workers, and we used education to make a better life. Trailer parks and subsidized housing were in the areas I grew up, the only privilege was school. I knew I wanted out.

Wh and mow used each other and closed their eyes to reality. He knew what she was character-wise, but her flattering was worth it at the time. She wrote so much out in emails, which is how I got so much info about her. He also holds himself more responsible for this, he knew every decision he was making was stupid, when red flags went up, he ignored them. He was very self loathing and didn't respect himself, his work or anyone. She didn't respect herself or her job. Wh is doing hard work on himself right now, and she continues to disrupt. He wants to reconcile or at least be the man the kids will respect again. As the bs, none of this is easy. After so many years together, I'm open to seeing his efforts.

She has a husband who's a teacher and 4 healthy kids, she's 50. Her family is an accomplishment. Regardless of income, she has a choice to lead a respectable life, but she's still carrying on and making an ugly name for herself. People who don't know about the affair talk to me about her due to work. While there's no contact, it's a small industry, so her presence is there. I bite my tongue and vent here. I get to get the venom out on these boards and not discuss her IRL. Annoying for the readers, good for me.

Midwest - I totally had my wires crossed and was responding to something heartwhole said with both of your back stories combined. Again - I'm not commenting on social economic status, my comment was on trashy behavior. But it is probably moot since the backstory I had in my head doesn't exist!

Sandylee - you only get a snapshot of me from the Internet. I was seduced and manipulated when I was 16. This was a different time, it is impossible to explain how naive I was. I was still in puberty. I was from a small town with four TV stations and maybe received four radio stations. I was maybe as mature as 12 year old is today. It was a malicious, predatory seduction. I think from that point on, until I married in my early 20s, I did put out the victim vibe. I don't hold myself accountable for most of those affairs. Yes, there were two who hid their marital status quite well. There were a couple in there where I made the first move.

I look back and think if there had been a Dday, how would 36+ year old man defend himself for having a 16 year old girl? I wonder if his wife would have believed I was the victim or would she have convinced herself I was some sort of loose hussy? The predatory nature and things he talked me into did so much more damage than I realized. He really did smoothly rewrite my belief and moral system. He did hurt me physically a couple of times and I have trouble believing today that he didn't know any better, which was his excuse at the time. Example: neither of us had ever tried anal sex. Did he really not know to use something for lubrication or that there should be SOME foreplay? Sorry, graphic example, but maybe illustrates my point. It, and many of my affairs ( well, relationships since I was single) with MM during that time were abusive.

I'm so glad I never had kids. They would have been way too sheltered and probably rebelled big time. A few of my female friends who knew what happened to me were very protective of their daughters and the contact they had with adults. One friend would casually show up at her teen daughters workplace 30 minutes before her shift ended, just to sit and wait to give her a ride home - and to keep an eye on the adult manager. Another friend did get in trouble at work because she just couldn't bear to let child be alone with a male tutor - and she was rearranging her work schedule.

But the last one, the one where I'd had a 20+ year break in being involved with MM. The one that I'm finished with and miss him, but don't want to cause him pain? That one I take the full 50% blame for. But not 51%.

March 13, 2016

I am actually surprised more OW do not force a dday.
Why sit back and let a MM lie to both women. for weeks, months, even years???
WE all know MM tend to be cake eaters, why do women let him get away with it?
If he loves the OW like he says he does then why not tell the world including his wife?
Why don't more women take the initiative?

Having spoken with a few OW...their reasons are fear that the affair would be over instantly. They KNOW he'll choose his wife so they rather accept a tiny part of him than nothing at all.

Plus there is the fear that MM will hate them for ruining his life. I mean many MM turn on the OW even when dday happens and it wasn't her that caused it.

Then it's the claims of love for MM which I don't believe are reciprocated ... otherwise he'd be YOUR MAN and not YOUR MM.

My experience has shown that when a man truly loves a woman... she can't do any wrong in his eyes and he'd move heaven and earth to be with her.

I recall one OWs situation where there was a dday and she thought MM was coming her way and was prepared to be full of support.........anticipating their new life.. he was crying on the phone and told her he'd lost the woman he loved (his an wife) that he never wanted to see her again ...and how she was nothing compared to his wife..... how could she ever think he'd be with her in a relationship.

His wife divorced him and the broken OW...went crying to the BW .. who had since moved on and had a new man in her life.

Sometimes you can't make this stuff up I tell you

March 13, 2016

My experience has shown that when a man truly loves a woman... she can't do any wrong in his eyes and he'd move heaven and earth to be with her.

Agreed, men who leave, leave pretty promptly, they do not cake eat, and hum and haw, they know what they want and they grab it with both hands before someone else gets it.

Kids, houses, jobs, divorce all sorted out, and he moves on with the OW.

All this, he says he loves me but he cannot leave her or the kids due to xyz, is just garbage and cheap talk.

March 13, 2016

My experience has shown that when a man truly loves a woman... she can't do any wrong in his eyes and he'd move heaven and earth to be with her.

Hmmm. By using that logic, wouldn't that mean that MM would not get into an affair in the first place if they truly loved their wives?

I'm not trying to be snarky or mean, it's a curiosity question. I hear that quoted phrase all over this forum and in other places in reference to OW all the time. As well as hearing that mm don't or never love their ap. That statement is so completely not true at all. My exh fell in love with his ow. I divorced him for many reasons but the biggest two were because he trickle truthed and he loved another woman. He thought he "loved" me too and wanted to stay with me.... but to me, responsibility and obligation do not equate love and all 3 of us deserved better than that.

March 13, 2016

Hmmm. By using that logic, wouldn't that mean that MM would not get into an affair in the first place if they truly loved their wives?

I'm not trying to be snarky or mean, it's a curiosity question. I hear that quoted phrase all over this forum and in other places in reference to OW all the time. As well as hearing that mm don't or never love their ap. That statement is so completely not true at all. My exh fell in love with his ow. I divorced him for many reasons but the biggest two were because he trickle truthed and he loved another woman. He thought he "loved" me too and wanted to stay with me.... but to me, responsibility and obligation do not equate love and all 3 of us deserved better than that.

I can see both sides of it. I think both women in the unfortunate love triangle should observe that if he's not running out the door because of his amazing and unique love for the OW, then he doesn't really love her as much as he thinks he does. No one disputes that the WH is not loving the BW when he cheats on her. I'm sure that many BW who choose reconciliation make themselves feel better by using that logic. But I'm not sure that the logic is entirely faulty just because it's used to make them feel better in a terrible situation.

Like if you read my rambling treatise above when I mentioned that my WH was dating someone when he met me and instantly broke up with her. I didn't ask him to. I didn't encourage him to. I then avoided him for months on principle because I thought his trustworthiness was questionable (though at least he chose honesty and ending his prior relationship over cheating . . . not that I would have cheated with him!). He realized he was much more interested in being with me than his quasi-girlfriend. The OW often tell themselves that this is the case with the MM, but it's just logistics that are keeping them apart. When in reality, in most cases, the MM is choosing either consciously or passively to stay.

Obviously my WH loved the OW. He wouldn't say so on DD, and since then he's quite convinced that it was just fantasy and he never did. But the man sought the counsel of friends and a therapist because of his conflicted feelings. You don't do that if you don't think it's love. I don't dispute that.

And then, not three weeks after DD when he was out the fog, he was saying that he had never loved me so much as he did then, not even when we were first married. My WH has a lot of flaws but he isn't able to effuse feelings that he doesn't have. If he could, he'd be a lot better at expressing his remorse! Just weeks after losing his amazing love, he was feeling more love for me than a newlywed. (For the first week or two he was moping around and complaining to me about losing someone he cared about. It was like a flip was switched one day.)

My point is not that his feelings weren't real to him in the moment. Just that they weren't lasting or based in reality. He felt them. Does that mean he would make a good match with the OW? Does that mean he would be happy with her? Could it have been as amazing as either of them thought if he could turn it off so fast?

Sure, I'm glad my WH flipped that switch so fast, but I was an awesome person either way. What I care about now is whether he can change the way he copes, the way he communicates, the way he prioritizes, what he values. We're all capable of falling in love with any number of people. The question is, why does a cheater allow himself to fall in love with someone else? Because he "never loved his wife" as they like to say? That's quite a logical leap. What kind of bonehead marries a person he doesn't love?

Yes, there are men who never loved their wives or fell out of love and then the amazing OW comes along and they have a lightbulb "this is what I've been missing all this time!" moment. Those are the ones that leave of their own volition. But they are the exception to the rule. The rest are all conflict-avoidant, entitled cake-eaters.

March 13, 2016

Just weeks after losing his amazing love, he was feeling more love for me than a newlywed. (For the first week or two he was moping around and complaining to me about losing someone he cared about. It was like a flip was switched one day.)
.

I am not writing to upset you here, but is not that ability to flip a switch so fast not a bit disconcerting for you?

Was it not the same switch he flicked when he fell in love with the OW and out of love with you?

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