How Can You Trust Again

[MidnightBlue1980]

I'm 11 weeks since D day - xMM D day. My own was 6 months ago. I'm sitting here thinking how xMM is so good, even texting me he loves me while on a date night with his BS last weekend. How do I know my WS is not doing the same thing? How can you ever trust or really know what anyone is truly thinking again? If MM never leave and you are also married, doesn't that mean you are also on the other side of the coin? Maybe someone is with you just because they are too comfortable, lazy, scared, cheap to leave - and you have no idea because they are that good at hiding it. Maybe my WS is here on the board with me, counting down the days till he is over OW.

 

Karmic justice.

[RRM321]

I think you have to resign yourself to the fact that your first marriage is over - and toss it aside. You also have to toss aside the affairs.

 

If your serious you can build a second marriage and if lucky - it will be with the same partner.

[13Hearts]

What do you mean on the other side of the coin? You mean going through the same thing?

 

IDK how you learn to trust again. IDK how you trust anyone, to be honest. No one's word means anything. We all seem to say one thing and do the other. Is that just human nature and expecting more is naive? I read the news about all the horrible things people do to one another and wonder if there are any good people in the world. Even people who you think are good wind up doing horrible things. Doctors arrested for abusing patients, molesting children, prescribing narcotics, stealing money. Priests arrested for child abuse, day care workers arrested for the same. Coaches arrested for sexual assault on players, teachers arrested for having sex with children. Shall I go on? Was it Ghandi who said to be the change you wish to see in the world? What part can I play in all this, other than to be good to others and not resume treating xMM's (or any MM's) BW as a non-entity?

 

I think I got off topic. Sorry.

[ladydesigner]

Oh yes the dreaded trust. I don't trust many including my WS. Unfortunately my trust for humanity was blown out the window as a child from sexual abuse. I thought my WS was my rock but he lied to me worse than anyone I've ever met. You don't trust after stuff like this, too traumatic.

[Popsicle]

Midnight1980, yes, I imagine it's pretty difficult to trust in your specific situation.

[jenkins95]

Hey Midnight, hope you are OK.

 

Just to clarify, you xMM sent you a message last week telling you that he loves you, even though he was on a date night with his BS? No judgement at all from me, but this does seem to be a red flag and I am just interested to know your reaction to it. It seems like you were glad to get the text, but wouldn't you rather he just left you alone now and concentrated on his own mess? Does his wife know he has LC with you 11 week after D-day? It does sound a bit messy to be honest, and it must be hard for you to give 100% to your marriage if there is still LC and he is still using the L word? In an ideal world where everyone was single, would you rather be with OM?

 

However, the fact that you worry if your H is doing something similar shows that your marriage clearly matters to you and that it is that relationship that you want to work? Sorry, Midnight - I know you've posted a lot lately, and many of the answers to these queries I raise probably lie in your other posts. If I have time later, I will try to dig them out.

 

Regarding whether you can trust him, well it is an ongoing process to build that again, but presumably he is being very transparent with you? Also, if you really know him well, do you think you would just "feel" it if he wasn't 100% on board and still secretly contacting her? I am transparent in my marriage now, but my wife is hypersensitive to the smallest change in my mood even if I try to hide it as she knows me so well. If I was still secretly contacting OW after everything we've gone through, I'm sure she would just "know" it somehow. Don't you think? That's not to say she completely trusts me yet - that will take years, but I think she is at least comfortable and as sure as she can be that we are on the right track because she sees it in me that I am now 100% committed to our marriage. She's sees the husband that I was years ago - and it would be almost impossible to be that man through acting alone. Don't you feel that is 100% committed to you? Do you see reg flags in his behaviour, moods, etc?

 

It's been six months and he may well have experienced those doubts that you describe in the early days and not know what he really wanted, and that would have shown in how he was around you just after D-day - muddled, distant, tearful, unsure, etc. But at six months, he is presumably a lot more stable now? Of course anyone who's ever been in an affair will always occasionally have thoughts about it, but if he is really committed to the M, these thoughts should mainly now be of regret and shame and disbelief in what has happened. If he was really pining for her or wishing he was somewhere else, I don't think he would be able to hide it every minute - he would be distant, quiet, disappearing to have time on his own, reluctant to cuddle you, etc - he would be a different man to the one you knew for all those years. I think it would be obvious if he wasn't on board at 6 months, or maybe I'm overly simplistic! What do you think?

Edited March 10, 2016 by jenkins95

[Sub]

I think the guilt from your own A's - if it's there - is the biggest factor. You feel you can't be trusted, so how could you trust someone else who has done the same thing? I think you need to regain some faith in yourself, prove that you can be focused on your M, before you can start to trust anyone.

[Satu]

How could someone trust you?

[RRM321]

I think the guilt from your own A's - if it's there - is the biggest factor. You feel you can't be trusted, so how could you trust someone else who has done the same thing? I think you need to regain some faith in yourself, prove that you can be focused on your M, before you can start to trust anyone.

 

We tend to preach what we practice.

 

We will protest in the light all the very same behaviors we practice in the shadows.

[Babsinhealing]

I'm 11 weeks since D day - xMM D day. My own was 6 months ago. I'm sitting here thinking how xMM is so good, even texting me he loves me while on a date night with his BS last weekend. How do I know my WS is not doing the same thing? How can you ever trust or really know what anyone is truly thinking again? If MM never leave and you are also married, doesn't that mean you are also on the other side of the coin? Maybe someone is with you just because they are too comfortable, lazy, scared, cheap to leave - and you have no idea because they are that good at hiding it. Maybe my WS is here on the board with me, counting down the days till he is over OW.

 

Karmic justice.

I think of this too... I can't even trust myself these days! I really want to trust but it's so hard when you were certain what you though was true, only to be shocked and second guessing your own abilities to decipher truth from deception. The only thing I'm learning to trust is my instinct, which is not easy but it doesn't seem to fail me. However, I'm not sure learning to trust others is even possible, as we've learned that everyone lies and everyone does things to hurt you (whether intentional or not). I guess we just need to just accept that, accept its reality and try to forgive when it happens.

[Liam1]

I'm 11 weeks since D day - xMM D day. My own was 6 months ago. I'm sitting here thinking how xMM is so good, even texting me he loves me while on a date night with his BS last weekend. How do I know my WS is not doing the same thing? How can you ever trust or really know what anyone is truly thinking again? If MM never leave and you are also married, doesn't that mean you are also on the other side of the coin? Maybe someone is with you just because they are too comfortable, lazy, scared, cheap to leave - and you have no idea because they are that good at hiding it. Maybe my WS is here on the board with me, counting down the days till he is over OW.

 

Karmic justice.

 

Well, how do you think you can earn back trust if your Husband finds out about your affair.

 

As for the guy texting you while he is claiming to be on date night with his wife, Is this the type of man you want in your life?

 

You might want to research the criteria for psychopath and sociopath and Narcissistic personality disorder and see if this guy fits any of those three categories.

 

It's one thing to have an affair and quite another to be so insensitive as to text the OW when with your wife. Or, after dday and when he is supposedly reconciling.

 

As for all those excuses for why he stays married. You do realize that they are likely just excuses, right? If he were really that unhappy, he would leave.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Liam1

[sandylee1]

You're not accepting your part in all this. You speak of OM texting you...but you seem to relish in that...you haven't blocked him from your life so you might as well still be in the A.

 

The real truth is you can't trust him (or anyone else) because you're not trustworthy yourself. Just because you don't initiate the contact....doesn't make you better. Proper reconciliation would have cut all that out.. but I think because you're madhatters.... neither of you has done the usual things one would after an affair... starting with transparency.

 

If you carry on like this.. I don't see a successful reconciliation..... I'm sorry to say.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Well, how do you think you can earn back trust if your Husband finds out about your affair.

 

As for the guy texting you while he is claiming to be on date night with his wife, Is this the type of man you want in your life?

 

You might want to research the criteria for psychopath and sociopath and Narcissistic personality disorder and see if this guy fits any of those three categories.

 

It's one thing to have an affair and quite another to be so insensitive as to text the OW when with your wife. Or, after dday and when he is supposedly reconciling.

 

As for all those excuses for why he stays married. You do realize that they are likely just excuses, right? If he were really that unhappy, he would leave.

 

Well, my H knows everything, even that there has been communication. He has been pretty supportive as he went through something similar, to a point though. He wants it to stop about anything nonbusiness and I agreed. He did say exactly what you just said, last night actually, that xMM's W does not know he contacts me. However, she told my H they were just roommates and she knows we see each other, so I don't really know what's up. I guess there are all kinds of marriages. Having never been in a sexless marriage where both had no interest, I cannot relate or understand what binds people together - children, money, family, I guess.

 

He did tell me he was not unhappy and yes, he was clear that he was fine in his roommate situation and wanted a long term relationship with me on the side. I did think his complete lack of feelings towards me at the end and during the A were symptoms of a sociopath but later on, I thought maybe I just got what I deserved and was being dramatic. I don't know. I think I am a bad judge of character.

[MidnightBlue1980]

How could someone trust you?

 

I try. But I did tell H he should leave me. I'm flawed. I admit it. But he won't.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Hey Midnight, hope you are OK.

 

Just to clarify, you xMM sent you a message last week telling you that he loves you, even though he was on a date night with his BS? No judgement at all from me, but this does seem to be a red flag and I am just interested to know your reaction to it. It seems like you were glad to get the text, but wouldn't you rather he just left you alone now and concentrated on his own mess? Does his wife know he has LC with you 11 week after D-day? It does sound a bit messy to be honest, and it must be hard for you to give 100% to your marriage if there is still LC and he is still using the L word? In an ideal world where everyone was single, would you rather be with OM?

 

However, the fact that you worry if your H is doing something similar shows that your marriage clearly matters to you and that it is that relationship that you want to work? Sorry, Midnight - I know you've posted a lot lately, and many of the answers to these queries I raise probably lie in your other posts. If I have time later, I will try to dig them out.

 

Regarding whether you can trust him, well it is an ongoing process to build that again, but presumably he is being very transparent with you? Also, if you really know him well, do you think you would just "feel" it if he wasn't 100% on board and still secretly contacting her? I am transparent in my marriage now, but my wife is hypersensitive to the smallest change in my mood even if I try to hide it as she knows me so well. If I was still secretly contacting OW after everything we've gone through, I'm sure she would just "know" it somehow. Don't you think? That's not to say she completely trusts me yet - that will take years, but I think she is at least comfortable and as sure as she can be that we are on the right track because she sees it in me that I am now 100% committed to our marriage. She's sees the husband that I was years ago - and it would be almost impossible to be that man through acting alone. Don't you feel that is 100% committed to you? Do you see reg flags in his behaviour, moods, etc?

 

It's been six months and he may well have experienced those doubts that you describe in the early days and not know what he really wanted, and that would have shown in how he was around you just after D-day - muddled, distant, tearful, unsure, etc. But at six months, he is presumably a lot more stable now? Of course anyone who's ever been in an affair will always occasionally have thoughts about it, but if he is really committed to the M, these thoughts should mainly now be of regret and shame and disbelief in what has happened. If he was really pining for her or wishing he was somewhere else, I don't think he would be able to hide it every minute - he would be distant, quiet, disappearing to have time on his own, reluctant to cuddle you, etc - he would be a different man to the one you knew for all those years. I think it would be obvious if he wasn't on board at 6 months, or maybe I'm overly simplistic! What do you think?

 

Hi Jenkins! Thank you for the no judgement. It's really odd but hearing those feelings from xMM set me free. Part of what was driving me insane was the complete detachment he showed for these weeks, zero emotion. Hearing that he struggled...made me struggle less. Maybe it was about my ego these last few weeks. I don't know. I still cannot understand him or his lifestyle, he told me this week that they are still roommates (his wife confirmed this to my H, for years now) but they are trying to change that. I did not ask what what meant. I just said I was sorry to hear that. I can't relate to that honestly, being in a marriage where both wanted to be there but it was devoid of a physical relationship. But I've come to the conclusion that it's their life and I know xMM will just go meet someone else.

 

As for my H, I do believe at this moment he is not in contact with xOW, but he still sees her. However here is my thing - I now really don't think about seeing xMM, its no longer the big thing it was, I'm getting better at treating him like anyone else, whereas H has made a huge thing out of being around xOW and ignoring her or changing his whole schedule to avoid her. To me, that says a lot. I will say he was honest that he saw the pain I was in and he was glad he did not sleep with xOW. They did all these romantic couple things together, spoke for 3 hours on the phone daily, went to the park, walks, out on weekend nights, etc. I did not do that stuff. He had a EA with a little PA and I had the opposite. So in a way, its easier for me as I don't even know xMM's favorite color whereas he knows all this stuff about her.

 

I'll say this, when he did see her, I really never knew. People say they would always know, I'm telling you, not always. Some people are just very good at compartmentalizing. He does seem pretty determined to be in our marriage.

 

But then again, I'm sure xMM's wife could probably say the same thing.

[burnt]

Karmic justice.

 

You can either think of it as Karmic Justice or Karmic Perception.

'Justice' in a way implies some level of punishment, which rarely serves anything good or healthy in the long run.

 

Do YOU still have unwanted thoughts/memories/attachments to your xMM? I still do after over a year. Just about every poster here does months after the affair ends.

 

Everyone still has those intrusive thoughts. It takes times to let go. You know it. So, YES, you can bet 100% that your husband still has some level of thoughts of his xOW, unless he is a heart-less machine.

 

But you don't have to see it as a matter of trust issue.

Try to see it as a natural process that every person goes though, including YOU and your xMM.

 

Give yourself the time to let go.

But also give your husband the time he NEEDS to let go.

 

You mentioned once that you cried in front of your husband saying that you can't still let go of thoughts of xMM. So, ask him to open up about how he deals with his thoughts of his xOW.

 

If he actually tells you that he no longer thinks of her, THEN, you have a MUCH bigger problem. Then you will know your husband is lying to you.

Thats when you should distrust him.

 

If you and husband truly want to reconcile then both of you need to give each other the necessary time to heal and emotionally let go of former AP. If you are unwilling to give him time and space, then you shouldn't expect him to give you the time and space that you need either.

 

If you are wondering if he's posting somewhere online saying he's still thinking of his xOW, then know that it's actually a good thing.

 

Read the posts here written by xMM's and how they are saying that they are slowly letting go of their xOW and bonding with their wives more strongly. Realize your husband is probably going through a similar process.

 

Most MM's who reconcile after affairs, do say that they realize how much MORE they love their wives after the affair. So, do recognize that your husband most likely is feeling the same--that he actually loves you even more now, than before he had the affair.

[MidnightBlue1980]

You can either think of it as Karmic Justice or Karmic Perception.

'Justice' in a way implies some level of punishment, which rarely serves anything good or healthy in the long run.

 

Do YOU still have unwanted thoughts/memories/attachments to your xMM? I still do after over a year. Just about every poster here does months after the affair ends.

 

Everyone still has those intrusive thoughts. It takes times to let go. You know it. So, YES, you can bet 100% that your husband still has some level of thoughts of his xOW, unless he is a heart-less machine.

 

But you don't have to see it as a matter of trust issue.

Try to see it as a natural process that every person goes though, including YOU and your xMM.

 

Give yourself the time to let go.

But also give your husband the time he NEEDS to let go.

 

You mentioned once that you cried in front of your husband saying that you can't still let go of thoughts of xMM. So, ask him to open up about how he deals with his thoughts of his xOW.

 

If he actually tells you that he no longer thinks of her, THEN, you have a MUCH bigger problem. Then you will know your husband is lying to you.

Thats when you should distrust him.

 

If you and husband truly want to reconcile then both of you need to give each other the necessary time to heal and emotionally let go of former AP. If you are unwilling to give him time and space, then you shouldn't expect him to give you the time and space that you need either.

 

If you are wondering if he's posting somewhere online saying he's still thinking of his xOW, then know that it's actually a good thing.

 

Read the posts here written by xMM's and how they are saying that they are slowly letting go of their xOW and bonding with their wives more strongly. Realize your husband is probably going through a similar process.

 

Most MM's who reconcile after affairs, do say that they realize how much MORE they love their wives after the affair. So, do recognize that your husband most likely is feeling the same--that he actually loves you even more now, than before he had the affair.

 

I have a slightly different perspective. I'm not a big fan of forcing yourself to let go of your AP and rebuilding with your spouse. I think its a really big bad neon sign for your marriage to have all these thoughts and feelings for another person - especially when its both partners. I think that maybe it means, it's time to move on. That said, I am somewhat trapped in that I am not much different from all the xMM - I have all the same issues - kids, money constraints, family - and H is very confident that we should stay together. I'm not saying I don't love him, I do, I'm just somewhat black and white about this stuff. It's kinda....ruined. He knows this but I said okay, if he really wants me under these circumstances, I owe it to him and my family to try.

 

I'm not sure love is a big part of marriages or at least, it's not the same kind of love people have in these A. To answer you, H went through a brutal time with the end of the A. She pulled back, thinking it would motivate him to leave me, but it really didn't. She would call him - he couldn't call her (her rule, not mine) and afterwards he would lay in the fetal position on the bed for the rest of the day. This went on for some time until he slowly just stopped talking to her on a regular basis. It was very back and forth and he still speaks to her occasionally. In Dec, he said he controls it by LC and blocking it out of his mind. But then a few months later he said his method really didn't work after all, actually it made it worse. You can't block emotions. So I see xMM and just let myself experience whatever - anger, sadness, grief, longing. At this point I don't feel so much.