todreaminblue Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 i dotn know about other assault victims because every person is different every assault is different so therefore triggers and feelings are of course different...but i do know that after an assault i questioned what did i do ....what did i do to make him rape me ...even as a child......it was my fault.....you know after my rape as a child i always turned my head if someone tried to kiss me...didnt matter who it was....that hugging my dad made me uncomfortable...not that he wanted to hug em anyway because after my rape as a kid...he became very distant.....physically.....which enforced my feelings of guilt and shame.....the rapes were my fault...how men act around me or grope me....also my fault and yet people here on this thread still question she snatches her hand away ...saying she must not be attracted to you....i think however from a survivor view its entirely normal...she doesnt want to lead you on...and we have exaggerated responses that need time to work themselves out...its a no brainer.....she doesnt want to lead you on at all....but she wants you to stay around..... i see quite clearly that she is attracted to you......she wants you in her life..she has mixed feelings and fear about this probably....she istn ready for sex and she makes that clear......exaggeratedly so...but thats a defense mechanism......honestly some of these replies in this thread......are really disheartening towards survivors....and misinformed...and a bit ignorant..deb.... 1
BettyDraper Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 OK, I'll admit, I don't understand her OLD activity... I mean, what is she there for...? She is very frequently online... I asked her why, she told me she just chats... That is a big concern, I suggested she take her profile down once, because she's not ready to date... She told me that was an inappropriate suggestion...got quite offended. People only become unnecessarily defensive or needlessly offended when they know they are doing something wrong. It sounds like she's telling you what you want to hear while keeping her options open. You barely know this woman and you are already very emotionally invested. I don't think this situation is healthy for either one of you. 2
katiegrl Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 i dotn know about other assault victims because every person is different every assault is different so therefore triggers and feelings are of course different...but i do know that after an assault i questioned what did i do ....what did i do to make him rape me ...even as a child......it was my fault.....you know after my rape as a child i always turned my head if someone tried to kiss me...didnt matter who it was....that hugging my dad made me uncomfortable...not that he wanted to hug em anyway because after my rape as a kid...he became very distant.....physically.....which enforced my feelings of guilt and shame.....the rapes were my fault...how men act around me or grope me....also my fault and yet people here on this thread still question she snatches her hand away ...saying she must not be attracted to you....i think however from a survivor view its entirely normal...she doesnt want to lead you on...and we have exaggerated responses that need time to work themselves out...its a no brainer.....she doesnt want to lead you on at all....but she wants you to stay around..... i see quite clearly that she is attracted to you......she wants you in her life..she has mixed feelings and fear about this probably....she istn ready for sex and she makes that clear......exaggeratedly so...but thats a defense mechanism......honestly some of these replies in this thread......are really disheartening towards survivors....and misinformed...and a bit ignorant..deb.... Okay, but why then is she on a dating website? Where people meet to date, kiss touch, have sex! Why not join a friendship site? Would not that make more sense given her strong fear of even the most minimal form of physical touch like holding hands? Why place herself in the position of possibly having to fight off a man's physical advances? Does this make sense to you?
todreaminblue Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) Okay, but why then is she on a dating website? Where people meet to date, kiss touch, have sex! Why not join a friendship site,? Would not that make more sense given her strong fear of even the most minimal touch like holding hands? Why place herself in the position of possibly having to fight off a man's physical advances? Does this make sense to you? actually a dating website you cant touch really can you? its a for sure barrier so that does make sense to me.......you want intimacy hence the dating site...she wants love.. but is afraid to take it further i would hazard a guess if she did arrange to meet guys...she would be a no show....she needs therapy ...and friends not sex......deb Edited March 18, 2016 by todreaminblue 2
katiegrl Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 OK, I'll admit, I don't understand her OLD activity... I mean, what is she there for...? She is very frequently online... I asked her why, she told me she just chats... That is a big concern, I suggested she take her profile down once, because she's not ready to date... She told me that was an inappropriate suggestion...got quite offended. This a classic case of a person's *words* not matching *actions.* Huge red flag Smoothman ...which for some reason I think you know too...but don't want to admit or acknowlege (to yourself)....as it would hurt too much and you are not ready to deal with the rejection yet. So you throw yourself into denial, minimizing, justifying, rationalizing. 1
katiegrl Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) actually a dating website you cant touch really can you? its a for sure barrier so that does make sense to me.......you want intimacy hence the dating site...she wants love.. but is afraid to take it further i would hazard a guess if she did arrange to meet guys...she would be a no show....she needs therapy ...and friends not sex......deb Fair enough, but she met Smoothman, did she not? Fairly quickly too after they began chatting on line. Did not blow him off, did she? His initial post said they immediately started dating! But then all this came out, about her past history of abuse. and suddenly she can't even hold his hand? Something isn't jiving here... Edited March 18, 2016 by katiegrl
todreaminblue Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) Fair enough, but she met Smoothman, did she not? yes she did.....for whatever reason she felt safe enough too...like i dont know the girl so i cant say why she chose to meet him.,....mayeb he wasnt too forward.... i do know that she may have suggested sleeping over and having intimacy because she does really like him then she realized she wasnt ready..... its like i guess if you have intimacy with a guy and think later on hey i dont want this to go further right now and you say no please stop.......doesnt mean you dont like the guy...it means you are in no way ready for sex... this is where problems arise with dating survivors...a guy you are dating gets hot and heavy as do you and then you think crap i am not ready this is going too fast...i am scared so you call out no stop...happened to me on a pier...i was kissing a guy and it was sweet ...enjoyable even.......and soft and warm...... and then he shoved his hand down my top and i freaked.....and all that came out was nahhhhhhhhhhh....and all attraction ceased........i was triggered......i didnt see him again after he took me home.......didnt lead him on.......never answered his calls or texts.......she wants to see this guy ...he is close to her...if she didnt want him around or wasnt attracted.....she wouldnt ..the hand snatch could have been her having a bad day not wanting to lead him on...full of self doubt...she is in no way ready for intimacy but wants to know him much better...its a defense thing....but then this is my opinion.... ...deb Edited March 18, 2016 by todreaminblue 1
katiegrl Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 yes she did.....for whatever reason she felt safe enough too...like i dont know the girl so i cant say why she chose to meet him.,....mayeb he wasnt too forward.... i do know that she may have suggested sleeping over and having intimacy because she does really like him then she realized she wasnt ready..... its like i guess if you have intimacy with a guy and think later on hey i dont want this to go further right now and you say no please stop.......doesnt mean you dont like the guy...it means you are in no way ready for sex... this is where problems arise with datign survivors...a guy you are dating gets hot and heavy as do you and then you think crap i am not ready this is going too fast...i am scared so you call out no stop...happened to me on a pier...i was kissing a guy and it was sweet ...enjoyable even.......and soft and warm...... and then he shoved his hand down my top and i freaked.....and all that came out was nahhhhhhhhhhh....and all attraction ceased........i was triggered......i didnt see him again after he took me home.......didnt lead him on.......never answered his calls or texts.......she wants to see this guy ...he is close to her...if she didnt want him aroudn or wasnt attracted.....she wouldnt ....but then this is my opinion.... ...deb My opinion is she is not attracted to him. Wants to be as he is obviously a great, and very nice, compassionate man. But as I said, just like SM can't help who he becomes attracted to (women who need saving)...SHE can't help the men she is attracted to either. I mean isn't it obvious, look at her history! Anyway, guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one deb...I have no problem with that whatsoever. Take care... 1
Author Smoothman Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 My opinion is she is not attracted to him. Wants to be as he is obviously a great, and very nice, compassionate man. But as I said, just like SM can't help who he becomes attracted to (women who need saving)...SHE can't help the men she is attracted to either. I mean isn't it obvious, look at her history! Anyway, guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one deb...I have no problem with that whatsoever. Take care... Time will tell all I guess.
katiegrl Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 Time will tell all I guess. True. But given she *broke up* up with him the other night ...I suspect that she will most likely "break up" with him again. Perhaps when she meets another guy she *is* attracted to....but you are 100% correct, time will tell.
Author Smoothman Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 I just rang her...I was trying to think of a way to ask about her OLD activity..when she started asking me about my plans for the weekend... I am having a night out tonight with friends (late and alcoholic), but free most of Saturday apart from a catch up with a friend around 6:00. She immediately asked if we could meet Saturday... Not to do anything to help her...simply to spend time together...she slotted herself into my free time. 1
katiegrl Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) I just rang her...I was trying to think of a way to ask about her OLD activity..when she started asking me about my plans for the weekend... I am having a night out tonight with friends (late and alcoholic), but free most of Saturday apart from a catch up with a friend around 6:00. She immediately asked if we could meet Saturday... Not to do anything to help her...simply to spend time together...she slotted herself into my free time. That sounds very nice ....have fun!! Keep expectations low and just enjoy each other... FWIW .....I hope I'm wrong. Let us know how it goes.... Edited March 18, 2016 by katiegrl 1
Author Smoothman Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 True. But given she *broke up* up with him the other night ...I suspect that she will most likely "break up" with him again. Perhaps when she meets another guy she *is* attracted to....but you are 100% correct, time will tell. She didn't "break up with me" Her cold attitude was all part of her behavior: "Sometime I will act like that, you can't think this means I'm not interested in you anymore, I am still dealing with all this"
katiegrl Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 She didn't "break up with me" Her cold attitude was all part of her behavior: "Sometime I will act like that, you can't think this means I'm not interested in you anymore, I am still dealing with all this" You are right. You ended it! If my memory serves me correctly, she was moody and cold, then something about y'all getting together, she said "up to you" .... you said you think you will "take a pass," she responded saying "thanks for letting me know" .... after which you came back on the board saying you guess "this was it -- it's over." Then the following morning she called and you said it did not necessarily mean you were *back together*...which implied you had broken up .... but hell who knows anymore...this thread is too confusing for me to keep up with. Good luck!! 1
Author Smoothman Posted March 18, 2016 Author Posted March 18, 2016 You are right. You ended it! If my memory serves me correctly, she was moody and cold, then something about y'all getting together, she said "up to you" .... you said you think you will "take a pass," she responded saying "thanks for letting me know" .... after which you came back on the board saying you guess "this was it -- it's over." Then the following morning she called and you said it did not necessarily mean you were *back together*...which implied you had broken up .... but hell who knows anymore...this thread is too confusing for me to keep up with. Good luck!! That was before I had met her and talked about it... Yeah, I got p!ssy and dismissive... That's my bad for not respecting her situation.
whichwayisup Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 Frankly, OP, if you continue to pursue this friendship, I'd read up on the traits of BPD. A poster here, Downtown, is an expert on the topic. You might look him, or some of his posts, up. I'm not denying her rape(s), but there's something else really off here. Tread cautiously. She could be suffering from anxiety, PTSD and it's obvious she's emotionally all over the map, not able to trust and her wall goes up easily. She's a mess but at least she's seeking counseling. OK, I'll admit, I don't understand her OLD activity... I mean, what is she there for...? She is very frequently online... I asked her why, she told me she just chats... That is a big concern, I suggested she take her profile down once, because she's not ready to date... She told me that was an inappropriate suggestion...got quite offended. Decide to let this go and stop watching her online activities, all that will do is make you doubt her more. She told you she wasn't dating anybody else, isn't interested in anybody else so I doubt she's lying about that. In her mind you telling her to delete her account is offensive and controlling, you're her friend, not her boyfriend. Right? Let it go... Or end it with her if you can't handle her on there. She didn't "break up with me" Her cold attitude was all part of her behavior: "Sometime I will act like that, you can't think this means I'm not interested in you anymore, I am still dealing with all this" She is up and down. If you stay with her get used to her mood swings. I say set boundaries now and stay detached from her, don't let your heart get hurt. She is not in a healthy place to have a functioning and good relationship, even a real friendship. She has so many issues of abuse, rape (twice by 2 men, one of which she married), she has battered woman syndrome too which explains her behavior. Are you sure you want this right now? If you are her friend, then be a friend, no strings and no telling her what to do or watching her online activities. She will feel invaded and think you're trying to control her and she will react badly to this if you don't stop. 1
Jabron1 Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) She's using you. Until you understand that, your confusion will not subside. You have been heavily, heavily friendzoned. The sooner that you move on, the less painful it will be. I know you don't want to hear that, and you'd rather hear how nice you are for your devotion. But, it's time to just accept reality. Learn the lesson. When a stranger gives you a sob-story, they are trying to manipulate you. Don't think with your emotions - use logic, always. Edited March 19, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator 1
jen1447 Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 OK, I'll admit, I don't understand her OLD activity... I mean, what is she there for...? She is very frequently online... I asked her why, she told me she just chats... That is a big concern, I suggested she take her profile down once, because she's not ready to date... She told me that was an inappropriate suggestion...got quite offended. Not trying to bash but IF you're still playing the friend role primarily, it was kinda inappropriate. Friends don't get to call shots on matters of personal volition, even 'life coaches' have limits w/that, and I don't think you want the life coach handle. I think you should try not to equate trauma/damage/issues w/a childlike need to be directed at every step. (Not saying you've been doing it, just avoid it - it's an easy leap to make.) She's a rape victim who needs support, not a helpless and hapless woman-child who needs everything managed in her life. 3
katiegrl Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) I agree with jen, and something else I have been wondering .....since you assert you are perfectly fine with being friends, then why get defensive when I opined earlier that I don't believe she is *attracted to* you? As a friend, why would you care, let alone be bothered about it and dispute it? Many contradictory statements throughout this thread .....not sure what to believe anymore. Take care... Edited March 18, 2016 by katiegrl 2
katiegrl Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 I agree with jen, and something else I have been wondering .....since you assert you are perfectly fine with being friends, then why get defensive when I opined earlier that I don't believe she is *attracted to* you? As a friend, why would you care, let alone be bothered about it and dispute it? Many contradictory statements throughout this thread .....not sure what to believe anymore. Take care... To add...I do believe her though, when she said she was afraid the hand holding would lead to more....with you. Since she considers you as only a friend at this point, she held back on holding *your* hand so as to NOT mis-lead you into thinking there could be more.....with you. You have a friendship....either be happy with that or leave. Harsh reality.... 1
Jabron1 Posted March 18, 2016 Posted March 18, 2016 In other words, you are acknowledging the possibility that she may have indeed been....making up....this rape story in her most recent relationship. Isn't this what the guys on here have been saying all along--acknowledge this possibility? Especially because otherwise her ex would be presumed guilty something he may not have done. I do hope that you aren't saying that OP should put up with being her "good friend" while she is still active on the dating site doing who knows what with other men. That would sound like horrible advice to me. This woman's erratic actions probably do come a place of pain, but to a guy she is dating, it is destructive and crazy behaviour that has no place in a romantic relationship (which again, is what the guys on this thread have been warning the OP about all along). She DOES deserve love and healing, but from a therapist and her circle of friends/family, NOT from someone who really wants to bone her (even if he won't admit it to himself). I, for one, didn't broach the subject of rape. This wasn't a rape issue. It was a friendzone issue. She was using the OP for attention, comfort, and security. She didn't have any intention of a sexual relationship. She probably dismissed the idea on the first date when she started bringing up her ex-boyfriend. An experienced guy sees this from miles away, and knows better than to let himself get dragged into it. Smoothman, you really should just walk away, and keep your dignity. You will find someone better, but probably not whilst you cling to whatever this is. 1
Jabron1 Posted March 19, 2016 Posted March 19, 2016 This a classic case of a person's *words* not matching *actions.* This is the takeaway. Everyone seems to forget the golden rule of dating: Always focus on actions, not words. If you have had several dates with someone, and they still won't kiss you or even hold your hand, then that is the message. Whatever reasons she/he gives for that are moot. The message is loud and clear: she doesn't want a sexual relationship with you. That confrontation between you and her regarding the dating site was a really bad move, and indicative of the environment/relationship becoming toxic. In future, let a woman have her options, or walk away. You really need to move on ASAP, and go no contact. I wouldn't string things out any further. Just a simple 'sorry, I don't think we are compatible. Take care.' and then move onward with your life. If she continues to want 'friendship', be honest with her. Tell her that you want more, and can't settle for less - and then don't. But, I think things have gone too far for that now, and I wouldn't entertain the idea, if I were you. We all have to walk away from people we're attracted to. You aren't alone in this. The good news is that there are many attractive women that will treat you better. I can remember a few times in my life where I wondered if I 'blew a chance' or if I can do better, and I always have. Longterm, you'll be alright 1
Author Smoothman Posted March 19, 2016 Author Posted March 19, 2016 Thanks everyone... UPDATE OK, so this Saturday date...turns our she wanted me to help her collect money from some tenants she had kicked out. Yeah, you heard me... So I do...two young Chinese girls, basically she is telling me they owe here $13000... They end up bursting into tears, try adn explain to me their side of the story, and I listen, and look into the paper work I have been given, and the paper work the girls had,.. Without going into all the details, it SEEMS that she had misrepresented the facts to turn a legitimate $3500 claim into $13,000 by asking for this same amount from both the girls... I told them to pursue the matter through the tribunal, and reported back to her that the girls are doing this... She wasn't too worried about that, when I questioned the doubling up of the amounts, she told me a load of baloney...Again, details aren't important. After a that we go off to have our "fun date"...I had planned to teach her how to shoot pool... In the car I said something like: "I;m not comfortably doing that, I'm a caring person, my life is about helping people, not making young girls cry" I'm simply expressing my opinion, I was VERY uncomfortable being a debt collector for her... WOW Her reaction to that simple statement was incredible... "...this is business, you may think I'm a b!tch but I deal with things like this all the time. My partner has to be able to deal with this." "I can't believe you told me that...'you're uncomfortable'! If i did this for you I'd never tell you that" And on and on... I did reply that I was simply airing my feelings, not that I wouldn't or couldn't do that again... I asked her what did she want...if she wants a "big soft heart" then that's all part of it... We talk more at my place, but she has totally withdrawn, clinging to her handbag, sitting pushed up against the edge of the couch... She tells me: "I'm a mess, all over the place...I think I'm better off single" And a few more statements along these lines... "I don't think I'm the right girl for you...you deserve better" I drive her home...As I approach her house I tell her: "What I deserve, is someone who appreciates me" She replied: "If you don't think I appreciated you, then you you don't understand me at all" To which I answered: "If you appreciate me you sure got a funny way of showing it" At home we exchange a few texts...and I call her (OK, you're all probably thinking why I bothered, but I'm still in that emotional state) She repeats that she isn't ready for a relationship... I tell her we'll take a week to think and have space... She asks: "Can we still be friends if you decide you don't want me?" I say yes... But I can see that she really is just after my friendship... I have to think if I can accept her in that light... I lost a lot of my attraction to her...she showed me a temper and irrational behaviour I DO NOT want in my partner. 1
katiegrl Posted March 19, 2016 Posted March 19, 2016 (edited) I have no words....just gonna wait for Jabron to respond. Except to say ...SM, what the HELL were (or are) you thinking?? You should have walked out the SECOND she said she needed your help collecting rent! And then to find she is a scammer? And you still want to be *friends* with this person? Wow, just wow. Edited March 19, 2016 by katiegrl 1
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