Dating a rape victim

[scorpiogirl]

I just want to say OP that you seem to have a very kind heart.

If you focus on a friendship and even let her sleep alone in the bed that would be better.

 

If you take things very slowly and try not to view her in a romantic light right now.

 

Start with hand holding if she will allow it.

Do things you might do with a friend.. like go to the movies.. watch light hearted stuff... just have her feel super comfortable with you.

 

You obviously think she's worth it... so there must be something about her that is special.

 

Be patient

Be kind

 

I hope she gets the help she needs and starts to heal and I wish you the best of luck.

 

Truthfully, men who are only attracted to women they can " save" aren't really all about being kind-hearted. It's a huge ego thing, and you have to ask yourself why you want these kinds of relationships. I have a family member very much like this. It's not pretty.

 

You have a pattern and a type. And you should ask yourself why you're attracted to the women you are.

[SSJROMANCE]

Most people think of rape of being this brutal attack. Not always the case. What was the case here? A brutal attack or a scenario where she said no and he refused to accept no for an answer?

[sandylee1]

Truthfully, men who are only attracted to women they can " save" aren't really all about being kind-hearted. It's a huge ego thing, and you have to ask yourself why you want these kinds of relationships. I have a family member very much like this. It's not pretty.

 

You have a pattern and a type. And you should ask yourself why you're attracted to the women you are.

 

Everyone has a type though ..... and maybe the type who need help is the OPs type. I've watched a lot of shows with rape survivors who have survived and later found love. I have a lot of admiration for the men who have been patient and restored their faith in men.

[oldshirt]

What I am about to explain is very controversial and many will find it too politically incorrect in these days and times but rape occurances and rape victims are not created equal.

 

 

The devil is in the details here.

 

 

I think you can screen out when to stay and be supportive and when to run by a few key details.

 

 

-did she continue to date this supposed rapist after the alleged rape? If answer is yes, then run.

 

 

- over time has other incidents of rape or molestation from her past surfaced? in other words over time does she mention being molested by uncles and cousins and neighbors etc as a child, then being repeatedly manhandled and groped forcefully in high school and then raped by various football jocks and other big men on campus in college. if the answer is yes or anything anywhere close to it, then run.

 

 

- any celebrity or star athlete rapes? Yes, sometimes star athletes and celebrities take inappropriate liberties with women and sometimes do rape them, but has she been raped by 5 of them?? if so, run.

 

 

- does any big news story about rape or molestion bring out a new account of her being raped? If so, run.

 

 

- does she still maintain contact with this rapist or maintain contact with any of his close friends or family? If so, run.

 

 

- Does she hold you at arm's length and refuses to be intimate with you but has screwed guys from the bar or that middle aged married guy down the street in recent time (or especially currently)? If so, run.

 

 

- Does she have a general lack of success and forward mobility in her life? Is she a slacker and a nonhacker in general? Does she seem to never be able to obtain and hold a decent job? Does she never seem to complete some kind of training or educational program or field of study? Does she have and maintain healthy friendships and relationships with other people who are successful and able to complete things or are all of her friends slackers that sit around and smoke weed, drink, go through cartons of cigarettes all day and just never seem to actually accomplish anything. If so, run.

 

 

- does she blame her rape(s) for her lack of drive and success? if so, run FAST!

 

 

I could go on but you are hopefully getting the point.

 

 

If she is squared away and successful in general and is moving forward with her life and is surrounded by ambitious, success people who are solid contributing members of society in general. And if this rape was a one time thing for which she immediately dumped the BF and sought medical treatment and counseling and reported the event to authorities and it appeared to be a one time event for which she took positive steps to deal with it and appears to be adaptive and leading a productive and successful life now, then there is probably no reason to be any more concerned about her than any other new relationship.

 

 

But if she is showing the signs listed above and as time goes on there are more allegations of unreported and untreated rapes and molestions and she shows signs of general maladaption and generally being unable to pursue and achieve any kind of success in life in general - then you have a Stage 5 Crackpot on your hands and you need to get as far away as possible before you come home and find your bunny boiling in a pot of water (that is a reference to an '80s movie about a crazy lady for those too young to remember)

[katiegrl]

Smoothman....I think the fact she told you this extremely personal information on the FIRST date is a huge red flag.....and one you should pay very very close attention to.

 

Women who *were* actually raped have difficulty speaking about it to their therapists for heaven's sake ....there is no way on God's green earth they are going to feel comfortable sharing this info with a stranger on a first date.

 

No way.

 

This woman has an agenda....which IMO is, playing the victim card to draw a *certain* type of man in... the *savior* type.

 

It has worked for her before ...she knows it will work again.

 

Also the fact she kept dating her so-called *[rapist]* after this alleged incident speaks volumes and is another huge Ted flag.

 

I used to work with true rape victims so I know what I am talking about.

 

I would suggest you move on, this woman is manipulating you big time....

 

JMO based on working with rape victims, tons of research, etc

Edited March 11, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
spelling

[losangelena]

But if she is showing the signs listed above and as time goes on there are more allegations of unreported and untreated rapes and molestions and she shows signs of general maladaption and generally being unable to pursue and achieve any kind of success in life in general - then you have a Stage 5 Crackpot on your hands and you need to get as far away as possible before you come home and find your bunny boiling in a pot of water (that is a reference to an '80s movie about a crazy lady for those too young to remember)

 

So, what you're saying is, if she didn't handle her rape in some preordained "correct" way, didn't grieve her assault properly, didn't heal quickly enough, had the unfortunate luck of being raped AND molested by various family members, then she's a "Stage 5 Crackpot" who will end up boiling your bunny?

 

 

please oldshirt, mansplain to us a little more how a woman handles her rape correctly.

[losangelena]

Smoothman....I think the fact she told you this extremely personal information on the FIRST date is a huge red flag.....and one you should pay very very close attention to.

 

Women who *were* actually raped have difficulty speaking about it to their therapists for heaven's sake ....there is no way on God's green earth they are going to feel comfortable sharing this info with a stranger on a first date.

 

No way.

 

This woman has an agenda....which IMO is, playing the victim card to draw a *certain* type of man in... the *savior* type.

 

It has worked for her before ...she knows it will work again.

 

Also the fact she kept dating her so-called *[rapist]* after this alleged incident speaks volumes and is another huge Ted flag.

 

I used to work with true rape victims so I know what I am talking about.

 

I would suggest you move on, this woman is manipulating you big time....

 

JMO based on working with rape victims, tons of research, etc

 

Katie, with all due respect, I think every woman is different and reacts to events in their lives differently. Rape is one of those things. I get that you've worked with rape victims in the past, but to start talking about how a woman SHOULD or SHOULDN'T act after the fact is a dangerous precedent.

 

I just listened to a This American Life episode yesterday about this very thing. The way the victim was doubted in the aftermath, because she wasn't acting like what a rape victim "should" act like, had chilling, devastating consequences. 581: Anatomy of Doubt I recommend that everyone participating in this thread give it a listen.

Edited March 11, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[katiegrl]

Katie, with all due respect, I think every woman is different and reacts to events in their lives differently. Rape is one of those things. I get that you've worked with rape victims in the past, but to start talking about how a woman SHOULD or SHOULDN'T act after the fact is a dangerous precedent.

 

I just listened to a This American Life episode yesterday about this very thing. The way the victim was doubted in the aftermath, because she wasn't acting like what a rape victim "should" act like, had chilling, devastating consequences. 581: Anatomy of Doubt I recommend that everyone participating in this thread give it a listen.

 

Thank you for the link ...I will listen.

 

But just to clarify, I did say it was JMO based on working with rape victims and research.

 

My experience.

 

I will listen though and perhaps will change my opinion after listening. I'm open.

 

Thanks again for linking it.

 

And I hope my opinion is incorrect.

[No_Go]

100% agree with Katie, it smells like a com strategy to me.

 

I shared this many times on the forum, but my ex who conned me into supporting all his living expenses within 4 weeks of dating started that way - VICTIMIZING himself:

- he shared on date 3 how his ex wife was 'stealing from him' (it was exactly the opposite story, learned later)

-how his ex-gf was 'abusing him' (he conned her with tons of money so she kicked him out of her home)

-AND, when these stories got old: he start sharing how his dad was molesting him.

 

..... The guy later in the tie changed the story that he had to SAY his dad was molesting him to avoid jail sentence for counterfeiting money in his teen years :/ It makes me sick in the guts to think what a brain would blame his own father in such a crime for any reason on earth.... But for him, this was part of life. He used his pity play to move through difficulties.

 

On other hand: I know REAL abuse victims. It is HARD TO IMPOSSIBLE to make them share their experience with a stranger because they are ASHAMED from it (they don't have to obviously, but that's how abuse victim brain works....). I had myself suffered abuse in the past - and I'm STILL not comfortable discussing it in real life with people. And most of it was over a decade ago.

 

I would proceed with extreme caution.

 

Smoothman....I think the fact she told you this extremely personal information on the FIRST date is a huge red flag.....and one you should pay very very close attention to.

 

Women who *were* actually raped have difficulty speaking about it to their therapists for heaven's sake ....there is no way on God's green earth they are going to feel comfortable sharing this info with a stranger on a first date.

 

No way.

 

This woman has an agenda....which IMO is, playing the victim card to draw a *certain* type of man in... the *savior* type.

 

It has worked for her before ...she knows it will work again.

 

Also the fact she kept dating her so-called *raoust* after this alleged incident speaks volumes and is another huge Ted flag.

 

I used to work with true rape victims so I know what I am talking about.

 

I would suggest you move on, this woman is manipulating you big time....

 

JMO based on working with rape victims, tons of research, etc

Edited March 11, 2016 by No_Go

[katiegrl]

Also, I have posted this before ...and I still hesitate to speak about it now, but many years I was drugged (rohypnol) and date raped.

 

It took me years to even have the strength to seek therapy, and even in therapy I couldn't comfortably talk about it.

 

It takes a lot of trust to feel comfortable sharing this most personal information, and I cannot fathom how a woman could develop enough trust for a man to share this with him on a first date.

 

In fact, it took me (and other rape victims I have worked with) months to trust my boyfriend (my ex) enough to tell him. And even then, very very difficult!

 

I understand ever woman will have a different response and respect that, however, this situation as the OP described it, makes absolutely no sense to me and as I said indicates to me she has another agenda.

 

Again JMO.

Edited March 11, 2016 by katiegrl

[oldshirt]

So, what you're saying is, if she didn't handle her rape in some preordained "correct" way, didn't grieve her assault properly, didn't heal quickly enough, had the unfortunate luck of being raped AND molested by various family members, then she's a "Stage 5 Crackpot" who will end up boiling your bunny?

 

 

please oldshirt, mansplain to us a little more how a woman handles her rape correctly.

 

My advice was not geared to how a woman should handle her rape. That is what medical professionals, therapists, crisis centers and sexual assault advocates are for.

 

 

The OP was not a woman asking advice on how to handle a rape. The OP was man who was beginning to date a supposed rape victim.

 

 

My advice is if she is a normal, healthy, functioning, productive member of society who is able to carry on normally with daily life tasks and able to maintain healthy, productive relationships, then there is no reason for him not to proceed like any other woman he may be dating.

 

 

But if she is showing signs of maladaption and dysfunction and unable to carry on a normal, healthy relationship, then he should probably step aside and let her get the help she needs to get her own life squared away before he becomes involved with her.

 

 

My post was directed towards him. Not towards any sexual assault victim.

[oldshirt]

Smoothman....I think the fact she told you this extremely personal information on the FIRST date is a huge red flag.....and one you should pay very very close attention to.

 

Women who *were* actually raped have difficulty speaking about it to their therapists for heaven's sake ....there is no way on God's green earth they are going to feel comfortable sharing this info with a stranger on a first date.

 

No way.

 

This woman has an agenda....which IMO is, playing the victim card to draw a *certain* type of man in... the *savior* type.

 

It has worked for her before ...she knows it will work again.

 

Also the fact she kept dating her so-called *[rapist]* after this alleged incident speaks volumes and is another huge Ted flag.

 

I used to work with true rape victims so I know what I am talking about.

 

I would suggest you move on, this woman is manipulating you big time....

 

JMO based on working with rape victims, tons of research, etc

 

 

 

I agree with this as well. This is a damsel in distress grooming a white knight to save her.

 

 

The problem with damsels in distress and white knights finding each other is that both of them are damaged and have their own set of dysfunctions and rather than helping each other and bringing each other up, they often end up being dysfunctional codependents and feed into each other's problems and end up with more problems than they fix.

 

 

This is one of my favorite quotes -

 

 

"When a man rescues a damsel in distress, all he has to show for it at the end of the day is having a distressed damsel on his hands."

 

 

- Dr Laura Schlesinger

[oldshirt]

I need make the disclaimer in this thread that I do not believe in "fixer uppers" in general whether they be male or female, drug abusers, chronically unemployed, porn addicts, run ins with the law etc etc.

 

 

I think people under construction or people in rehab or people trying to pull themselves up out of the gutter or people overcoming their own challenges and tragedies etc should be supported and encouraged, but I do not encourage becoming romantically involved with them or heavily invested in them until they straighten out their own issues and get themselves back on track.

 

 

Therapy and counseling is for therapists, counselors and other professionals, not for suitors and paramores.

 

 

Save your dating and romantic pursuits for people that have already got themselves squared away.

 

 

Leave fixer uppers for carpenters and leave old junkers for mechanics.

[AMJ]

I need make the disclaimer in this thread that I do not believe in "fixer uppers" in general whether they be male or female, drug abusers, chronically unemployed, porn addicts, run ins with the law etc etc.

 

Save your dating and romantic pursuits for people that have already got themselves squared away.

 

 

Leave fixer uppers for carpenters and leave old junkers for mechanics.

 

It's a thin line, between being someone's savior and simply being supportive. Are we not all "fixer uppers"? This is hypocritical advice- no one alive is absent of baggage. We all have issues, old shirt.

 

I didn't read the entire thread. But how are we jumping from the assumption that she's a majorly dysfunctional, lying, cheating, low-life drug user, simply because she opened up to OP about being raped so soon? I'm hearing a lot of blame the victim messages, and I can only say that it makes me very sad.

 

Why do victims of rape and sexual abuse feel ashamed? Because society tells us that we did something wrong for something so terrible to happen to us.

 

angelena is correct- no one, and I mean NO ONE can judge a person for how they respond to their own abuse. A friend of mine was raped in her own house when she was 14. All through high school, she was known for being promiscuous, it was no secret. Sometime around senior year, something in her snapped, and she started telling everyone- I mean everyone- that she was raped years before. It's not uncommon for women to react this way, to reclaim their ownership of their bodies and their sexuality.

 

It's also not uncommon for victims to feel shame and never tell anyone. It's bad enough to overcome the trauma, not many want to live with this negative judgement.

 

I don't know why she told him about being raped so soon. I honestly don't. But we can't assume this makes her a bad person with bad intentions. We can't tell him not to date her because she's damaged goods. No, he's not her therapist. No, he can't fix her. But he can be supportive, and that's all that I think he's trying to do here.

Edited March 19, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language~T

[preraph]

This thread is literally making me sick. You think you're civilized people, but the way you ostracize rape victims is only a degree away from they way they're treated in some third world countries: Raped, then discarded or worse as damaged goods. It's appalling. I'd love to talk to one of you victim haters after it happens to your teenage daughter.

[losangelena]

But if she is showing signs of maladaption and dysfunction and unable to carry on a normal, healthy relationship, then he should probably step aside and let her get the help she needs to get her own life squared away before he becomes involved with her.

 

I understand, but you could say that of anyone, rape victim or no rape victim.

 

I suppose what I read from your thread was an implication that a woman who suffers from some sort of maladaption due to her rape is going to turn into Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction. You say as much right here:

 

But if she is showing the signs listed above and as time goes on there are more allegations of unreported and untreated rapes and molestions and she shows signs of general maladaption and generally being unable to pursue and achieve any kind of success in life in general - then you have a Stage 5 Crackpot on your hands and you need to get as far away as possible before you come home and find your bunny boiling in a pot of water.

 

That type of characterization is hardly fair, or accurate, for that matter. Stage 5 Crackpot? Jesus Christ.

 

I for one do not think OP should feel as if this woman is his to rescue. But we have no idea what kind of girlfriend she'd make, simply by dint of being a rape victim, maladjusted or not.

[scorpiogirl]

This thread is literally making me sick. You think you're civilized people, but the way you ostracize rape victims is only a degree away from they way they're treated in some third world countries: Raped, then discarded or worse as damaged goods. It's appalling. I'd love to talk to one of you victim haters after it happens to your teenage daughter.

 

OP aside... no wonder women hesitate to come forward. A woman or man who has been sexually assaulted only needs to read this to realise how they'll be ostracised by men and women alike.

 

Disgusting

[AMJ]

This thread is literally making me sick. You think you're civilized people, but the way you ostracize rape victims is only a degree away from they way they're treated in some third world countries: Raped, then discarded or worse as damaged goods. It's appalling. I'd love to talk to one of you victim haters after it happens to your teenage daughter.

 

I know. I'm trying not to get angry but...you're right. Shallow, self-centered, sickening responses here.

 

Rape culture is taught. The idea of getting a girl drunk so 'her panties will drop' is like a joke to young men in our society. Sure, having sex with someone who's blacked out and would otherwise turn you down, sounds like a great time! It's disgusting. But it happens every single day.

 

And the truth is- I guarantee that every single victim hater here probably has a close friend or relative who has been raped, and they don't even know it. They say it's 1 in 4, but that's only the people who report it. Studies show that 1 in 6 men are sexually abused, and men are way less likely to report it than women.

[AMJ]

 

So, please, how do in approach this?

 

I know I have to let her make the first moves in any aspect of our physical relationship, but I really want to kiss her, to get this firmly into the relationship zone, and out of the counselor/friend zone.

 

I will respect her physical boundaries, I would sleep beside her with no sex to assist building her trust, but i want to avoid as best as I can setting off any triggers.

 

Finally, NO, I am not going to heed any advice suggesting I run away from this...please...just assume I have decided to see this through...and leave it at that.

 

Thanks!

 

Hey Smoothman,

 

Well let's get this hating the rape victim discussion back on track. Let me be one of the only few people here who will give you advice, and positive encouragement, like you asked for. I'm sorry that you've received so much negative judgement from posters here...but that should help you understand why this is such a difficult issue for your girlfriend.

 

Her trauma is still very recent. You're the first guy who's touched her since, so that's why this is difficult for her. The best thing you can do is encourage her to get therapy. But I know that's not an easy conversation to have either.

 

It's going to take her time, lots of time, to feel comfortable with sex again. She's going to have an extremely difficult time trusting anyone. There's not much you can do to change that, other than what you're already doing, which is being supportive and respecting her boundaries, and not pushing her for more than she's ready for.

 

I waited a year to have sex after I was raped, and my boyfriend knew nothing about it. After we had sex, I went into the bathroom and cried. He knocks on the door, asking if I'm okay, of course I lied and said yes.

 

It took a long time for me to be okay with sex again, but it didn't stop me from trying! Your girl is not damaged goods, but she does need help and treatment. I hope she finds it.

 

And thank you, for being so kind and considerate to her

The world needs more people like you.

[katiegrl]

I know. I'm trying not to get angry but...you're right. Shallow, self-centered, sickening responses here.

 

Rape culture is taught. The idea of getting a girl drunk so 'her panties will drop' is like a joke to young men in our society. Sure, having sex with someone who's blacked out and would otherwise turn you down, sounds like a great time! It's disgusting. But it happens every single day.

 

And the truth is- I guarantee that every single victim hater here probably has a close friend or relative who has been raped, and they don't even know it. They say it's 1 in 4, but that's only the people who report it. Studies show that 1 in 6 men are sexually abused, and men are way less likely to report it than women.

 

First of all.... neither I, nor anyone else, stated that we "hate" rape victims.... so please stop making such egregious accusations.

 

Secondly, I HAVE been raped (as stated in my earlier post)... and I have also worked with many rape victims...and based on my own personal experience plus working with many other rape victims.... it is MY OPINION that it takes a very long time to trust someone enough (other than a rape crisis counselor or therapist, and even then it's difficult to trust).... to open up about something this traumatic.

 

And that it is very unusual for a rape victim (I prefer survivor) to open up with such detailed info to a man she doesn't know, let alone trust, on a FIRST DATE.

 

Again, my opinion based on my own personal experience of being raped and working with other rape survivors.

 

Last I checked this board is for doing just that, posting our opinions, and discussing those opinions without being accused (in this case) of being a "rape victim hater" or any other such egregious accusations.

 

If you don't agree with my opinion, I respect that.... and would also appreciate if you would respect mine.

 

Thank you.

Edited March 11, 2016 by katiegrl

[Jabron1]

Some of the women here are showing a real lack of basic understanding concerning men and relationships.

 

Op is not being a Samaritan. His 'kindness' is an investment, that he will expect a return on.

 

Do you really think the OP would be okay with it, if he stood by her for 6 months of therapy, then she got into a relationship with someone else? Of course he wouldn't.

 

True kindness doesn't expect reciprocation. Another poster mentioned his Freudian slips, such as 'I need her to heal'. It's damn creepy.

 

A healthy guy doesn't try to be a woman's psychiatrist whom he just met on a first date. He would encourage her to go to the doctors or police instead.

 

The whole thing is toxic. She is using him for comfort; he is playing along in the hopes that things become sexual.

 

Any responsible adult would advise that they both seek help - not encourage this mess, and tell him how 'wonderful' he is.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Jabron1

[RRM321]

Some of the women here are showing a real lack of basic understanding concerning men and relationships.

 

Op is not being a Samaritan. His 'kindness' is an investment, that he will expect a return on.

 

Do you really think the OP would be okay with it, if he stood by her for 6 months of therapy, then she got into a relationship with someone else? Of course he wouldn't.

 

True kindness doesn't expect reciprocation. Another poster mentioned his Freudian slips, such as 'I need her to heal'. It's damn creepy.

 

A healthy guy doesn't try to be a woman's psychiatrist whom he just met on a first date. He would encourage her to go to the doctors or police instead.

 

This is so true. Self sacrificing rescues - the outcome is all in the name.

[jen1447]

So, please, how do in approach this?

 

Smoothman, can you answer a couple questions? They may seem like gratuitous details but I'm trying to get a feel for where she's actually at emotionally.

 

- Was this a violent rape? Rape takes a wide variety of forms. None are good, but some are def worse than others. (It can be anything from angrily submitting to a persistent husband and carrying little to no emotional scars from it to being beaten and injured and carrying lifelong emotional trauma.)

 

- How long did that relationship last? I know it happened in week two and that was 9 months ago, but how long dd she stay w/him after the rape? (This isn't me setting up to blame her for anything or accuse her of being a fraud, just again trying to get a feel for things.)

 

The way she was responding to you on some things seems to suggest her issues are more trust-based and not as much about fear or trauma. If that's the case, I think it'll be easier for this to become an actual romantic relationship.

[AMJ]

 

 

Any responsible adult would advise that they both seek help - not encourage this mess, and tell him how 'wonderful' he is.

 

I don't think this relationship is healthy, but he cares about her and isn't going to run away because strangers on the internet disagree with his decision to proceed with her, so he needs some advice. I did say he can't fix her, but he can be supportive, compassionate.

 

How are we to know what will happen with these two? Maybe she decides to go to therapy and they take their relationship slow for awhile, and then things get better? It's not impossible.

 

I said he was a good person because so many here are throwing some harsh criticism at this entire situation. What he's dealing with is difficult enough, without having to fend off internet judges. Anyway he is a good person for being open-minded about her.

[preraph]

I know. I'm trying not to get angry but...you're right. Shallow, self-centered, sickening responses here.

 

Rape culture is taught. The idea of getting a girl drunk so 'her panties will drop' is like a joke to young men in our society. Sure, having sex with someone who's blacked out and would otherwise turn you down, sounds like a great time! It's disgusting. But it happens every single day.

 

And the truth is- I guarantee that every single victim hater here probably has a close friend or relative who has been raped, and they don't even know it. They say it's 1 in 4, but that's only the people who report it. Studies show that 1 in 6 men are sexually abused, and men are way less likely to report it than women.

 

Yes, and those guys who try to get a woman unconscious to have sex, if they knew what that says about them, they'd die of embarrassment because guys who are most comfortable going that route are somnophiliacs, and somnophiliacs are about as cowardly and inadequate as a person gets.