abby_tx Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 I've become exclusive with guys who are nice and I think good for me, but may not be quite what I'm looking for either lookswise or other. Onice I call you my boyfriend, I am fully devoted. I care deeply, love deeply, and would do anything to make it work. The last guy I dated was a pretty big dork and not to sound vain, but not as attractive or witty or intelligent as I'm used to but he was nice and caring and treated me well. I brushed off a lot of more superficial things. What sucks is we ended up disagreeing about a pretty big thing (kids) and I ended it. He came back changing his opinion, I took him back, but then he left me. He didn't seem to even look back. I think I'm bitter because I feel like I'm settling on guys who end up tossing me aside like its nothing. I hear that I'm a catch, but with the guys I end up with t doesn't seem I am. I wish a guy would fight for me. If not the dork, then who? I am honestly about to give up. I'm so bitter about this whole process. I don't have a question so much as looking for advice on how to keep going. I do want marriage and kids.
preraph Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 The truth is, whether they are less than what you would hope or not, men are still men and it's a total myth that the ones who aren't as sought after will treat you better, necessarily. Looks don't seem to have much to do with that part. It's their innate character they grew up with. I remember a life lesson that truly shocked me at the time. A friend of a guy I had dated used that connection to try to get me interested in him, and I naively assumed it was "just friends" until he tried it. I rejected, but we somehow remained friends. He had some issues. He was sort of the surveillance/stalker type. Instead of just casually talking to some girl he saw in retail or whatever, he'd learn as much as possible before deciding to talk to her. So by the time he did, he was overly invested and yet a near-stranger to her. He had some issues, was a compulsive spender and collector, so this wasn't his only issue. I mean, he wasn't a great looking guy, literally a first-generation computer geek, like worked on prototypes, that far back, but he was also a music collector and played a little, so he wasn't strictly one-dimensional. I'd give him some advice. First of all, he watched porn too much and I cautioned him never to try running a porn script on a woman the first few dates, anyway. He really thought that was the way to go, as if him watching porn was his master's degree in sex!! So naive. I said, No, you'll gross someone out or scare them, at minimum. I recommended he volunteer someplace to meet women. So he did. Not long after, he thinks he's hit the jackpot because this socialite who was running the volunteer program handwrites him a thank you note. I mean, you know, she's the fundraiser and it's her job to get donations and as many volunteers so she's going about it with formal thank you notes. But he saw it as a clear come-on. I even read the note. Just the fact she mailed him. He even talked to his possibly slightly snobbish mother from Boston about it and reported to me that she "had her approval." I mean, he thought he was about to be married or something. So, of course, I'm thinking, Well, this is generally a nice guy, good job, and one day he'll meet someone and he'll treat her like a queen (because he's so desperate). That was my assumption. I'm thinking once he gets a girlfriend, she'll never have to worry about him cheating or anything. Well, miraculously, he ends up meeting a girl and they go out and she seems interested, and he's thrilled. And not that they'd gone out long enough to be exclusive or anything, but then by some miracle, he meets another interested woman, and so he totally goes behind the first one's back to date her. And I was appalled! I mean, I assumed he'd be too grateful and happy to do that. I assumed because he wasn't lucky with the ladies, he'd treat them better than some other guys who were. But you know what? He actually made a remark about it something to effect he'd been waiting his whole life to have two women to juggle, like his friends. I mean, him being in a position to do that was his dream, not to meet some nice woman to keep and be nice to. Well, he lost both of them, of course. But that taught me that handsome or plain, successful or not doesn't determine if you have good ethics when it comes to treating women (or people in general) well or not. So if you're going to get your heart broken, it may as well be in pursuit of one you can really be excited about. Or at least don't assume anything like I did. He was just one guy who didn't want kids. There's many more who do, just not anytime soon after they meet you. 1
scooby-philly Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Ok - caveat - I'm a guy. I like your post because I feel the same way as a guy. I'm going to try and break this down according to your post. Firs I agree with the first responder. It's about character. You don't know someone's innate character in a certain area until they're put in a situation that reveals it. You said "I've become exclusive with guys who are nice". First off, "niceness" can be a very psychologically based "mask" guys wear. Maybe they only had a mother. Maybe they were raised by an aunt or a grandmother. Maybe the had a tough childhood and had to play the "defender" role or act as caretaker for a parent. There are genuinely nice guys out there. But, you have to look at "niceness" from an ongoing perspective. Can he also just be a guy and fart or burp or scratch his balls. Can he also communicate his needs. The other responder's example is perfect. A "nice guy" who ends up cheating on the first person he gets into a relationship because there's some force, some long standing ache that he can't ignore. Don't confuse "nice" with being a "good guy". And I know this from personal experience. I was raised to be a "nice guy". I had my dad's mom in the house growing up and she was a vain women - though she never realized it and most people wouldn't catch on from most social settings. I've learned through hard experience that I can be nice - i mean, I do like helping others, but I also have learned to take better care of myself, express my needs, and also be okay with just being a guy - farting, occasionally watching a game and drinking a beer, etc. Second you said "may not be quite what I'm looking for either lookwise or other". That's no good for you - and not fair to the person you're dating. Not to get ahead of myself, but later on you talk about the other person not being as committed as you - perhaps that's because of this and other reasons. Yes, two people shoud be committed to each other, but it has to be based on reality - on two people being REALLY attracted to each other (meaning you like them a lot, you feel like you like them, not that you're "drooling" per se) , really knowing each other, and really having compatible goals and world views. It's easy to get discouraged. I'm 34. I'll be 35 this summer. I know guys from HS/college who have 2,3,4 kids, Some are even 12 or 13 at this point. I had little self-esteem and poor self-image in hs/college so I didn't date - plus I was sheltered. I spent 6 years in the seminary - I did great work and made some deep friendships, but I also spent most of my 20's not dating either. In the past 6 years I've dated 4 women, was engaged to one, and built a career. It's been hard and quite honestly lonely at times. But, I keep going on. Don't give into "settling". And remember - who you find attractive may not be even a "5" on someone else's scale. Next you said you would "do anything to make it work". That's the right attitude for people to have. Please don't become jaded or cynical. That turns a lot of great guys off of a woman (in addition - vanity, shallowness, trend following). But, there's also a time to put your foot down. You did it with the guy you mentioned. You want kids - we all have "non negotiables". Make a list - in a journal, a notebook, on a piece of paper folded into a wallet or purse, or there's even online journal websites you could use. List out your non-negotiables. They're important to you for a reason. And while your list will change and shift over time, and also situations will reveal that you never really wanted x,y, or z while you swore by it for years, you are who you are and people have to accept the person their in a relationship with lock stock and barrel. There's nothing wrong with a guy treating you well. Most women don't know what it's like to have a guy really treat them well - and that means being the guy who holds back your hair as you puke from too much drinking, or coming over at 6 am to fix a leaky pipe or cleans your apartment while your gone one day. Not that I want to be mean here - but do you treat your bf well? I mean, it sounds like you would. You sound genuine and caring, but if you are - just remember that not everyone has your level of niceness. And also - women have to learn to tell guys what they want. I'm a educational leader and I'll tell you - assuming a guy will know what you want is like a teacher not telling a kid how to behave or how to do something. Discovery works - but it may take 50 years instead of 5 seconds. "I wish a guy would fight for me". That rings true for me in my life. A good person will fight for their loved ones - even if they're wrong, and will do so with all their might. Up to a point. Again - maybe because your "settling" or not as attracted to that one guy in particular, you attract guys, but not maybe what you really want. I hate to say this - but I've found that dating is a bit of a numbers game. If you want to find someone for the rest of your life, you have to get out there and keep trying. It's not meant to be shallow - meaning sleep with as many people as you want, but odds are that most people won't find the right person till the 5th, 10th, or 20th try. Just don't quit. If you feel burned out or sorry for yourself take some time off. But then you have to get back on the horse. Don't sell yourself short either. You have to believe you are worth it and amazing things will happen. and I don't mean that in a fluffy kind of way. People subconsciously find confidence attractive. now, a lot of people learn that as kids and manipulate others, but we all are built the same way so if you want to find an amazing guy, convince yourself you are amazing will help in the process. And don't just think guys won't fight for women these days. I know plenty of women who've dropped guys becuase they don't know how to fight for them. And you said it yourself - you don't want to quit. So don't quit. You have to have a certain thickness of skin to play the game. You don't want it too thick - no one likes an angry, bitter woman. But no one really wants a flake either. Find something on a daily or semi-regular, or weekly basis that let's you think about what you've experienced and use it as a healthy habit for reflection. Yoga, meditation, a hot bath, a journal, something. Best of luck and keep trying! 2
Gaeta Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 I've become exclusive with guys who are nice and I think good for me, but may not be quite what I'm looking for either lookswise or other. Onice I call you my boyfriend, I am fully devoted. I care deeply, love deeply, and would do anything to make it work. The last guy I dated was a pretty big dork and not to sound vain, but not as attractive or witty or intelligent as I'm used to but he was nice and caring and treated me well. I brushed off a lot of more superficial things. . I command you for that. You put aside your silly standards about looks and you discovered a guy you liked and attraction and love grew from that. Don't beat yourself for doing that. If this man had given you the marriage and babies you want then you would have told the world how you found your man by giving a regular joe blow a chance. What sucks is we ended up disagreeing about a pretty big thing (kids) and I ended it. How long had you been dating? Why didn't you tell him right from the beginning what you wanted in terms of kids? He came back changing his opinion, I took him back, but then he left me. He didn't seem to even look back. Of course, most men are not going to show you how hurt they are. He didn't seem affected but it doesn't mean he was not. I think I'm bitter because I feel like I'm settling on guys who end up tossing me aside like its nothing. Why do you consider yourself settling when you fell for him? You settle when you don't love the person. If you grow into loving someone enough to want marriage and kids with them that's not settling. You say that because you're hurt. I hear that I'm a catch, but with the guys I end up with t doesn't seem I am. I wish a guy would fight for me. You want the right guy to fight for you. This one here didn't want children. You were incompatible. I also think you brought this one on yourself by not being upfront with your desire of having children. If a man doesn't want children while you do there is no 'fighting for you'. You're incompatible, period.
Larryville Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 I'm bitter because I feel like I'm settling on guys who end up tossing me aside like its nothing. it's a total myth that the ones who aren't as sought after will treat you better, necessarily. Looks don't seem to have much to do with that part. It's their innate character they grew up with. Of course, most men are not going to show you how hurt they are. Why a man’s relationship with his family, mom especially, relationship patterns, key indicators. I also think you brought this one on yourself by not being upfront with your desire of having children. If a man doesn't want children while you do there is no 'fighting for you'. You're incompatible, period. I know this applies to men (me at one time) but many settle because we are afraid to be alone. Anxiety about your single state cause those who should be doing a better job at vetting a potential partner to ignore the obvious or hide obvious deal breakers. I got use to anyone I started a conversation with asking them what are your “must haves” in a relationship and what are your absolute deal breakers… things for me smoking, unhealthy, debt… Dudes do this too by prioritizing relationship status over relationship quality. People in relationships who are “fearful” about being single typically are more dependent and will endure less satisfying relationships. “Fear of being single is a unique predictor of settling for less in one’s relationship,” When I finally took my mom’s advice and learned to make ME the priority and not ANY relationship I was cool. 1
Gaeta Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 I know this applies to men (me at one time) but many settle because we are afraid to be alone. Anxiety about your single state cause those who should be doing a better job at vetting a potential partner to ignore the obvious or hide obvious deal breakers. I got use to anyone I started a conversation with asking them what are your “must haves” in a relationship and what are your absolute deal breakers… things for me smoking, unhealthy, debt… Dudes do this too by prioritizing relationship status over relationship quality. People in relationships who are “fearful” about being single typically are more dependent and will endure less satisfying relationships. “Fear of being single is a unique predictor of settling for less in one’s relationship,” When I finally took my mom’s advice and learned to make ME the priority and not ANY relationship I was cool. I agree. Doesn't change the fact she still brought this upon herself. She is on here telling us how she is being abandoned and how this man won't fight for her when in reality she is the source of her problem. 2
Gaeta Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Ok, I read her last thread. She told this man she wanted marriage and children on date #2 and he pretended for 5 months he was ok with it. OP: Why do you start a new thread with this same topic? and now you're leaving important details out. I am sorry he played you. You're hurting and that's why you're lowering him by saying he was not even your type, you were settling etc. Bottom line is you fell for him, you were not settling. You wanted a life with him and he played you.
Author abby_tx Posted March 10, 2016 Author Posted March 10, 2016 Ok, I read her last thread. She told this man she wanted marriage and children on date #2 and he pretended for 5 months he was ok with it. OP: Why do you start a new thread with this same topic? and now you're leaving important details out. I am sorry he played you. You're hurting and that's why you're lowering him by saying he was not even your type, you were settling etc. Bottom line is you fell for him, you were not settling. You wanted a life with him and he played you. I could have tacked it on the end of that old thread but I thought this was a different topic. I'm feeling pretty bitter in that "What?!How could YOU not want ME?!" way. I have flaws, but I think I'd make a really great girlfriend or wife and yet I am single. The friends I have who wanted kids and dated guys who 100% didnt are now married with kids. The friends whose boyfriends left them for reasons worse than mine came back and are married. I am tired of being so easily discarded when I have a lot to offer. And yes, I just started therapy so maybe I'll get less bitter.
Author abby_tx Posted March 10, 2016 Author Posted March 10, 2016 I am also starting to try to date Ina different way. I already put up my dating profile (barf) and have been talking to a few potential guys. I want to line up a few dates even if it goes against what I want or feel right doing. Time to attempt this numbers game.
smackie9 Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Just because they are of lesser attributes doesn't mean they have lesser expectations. That isn't how it works. Since you feel this is the only way to get a man to stick with you in hopes of marriage and kids....there's a problem here, and it doesn't lie within these dorks you have been dating. If you are in a life's struggle getting a man to marry you, then you need to take a good look at yourself and figure out why men don't find you marriage material. It doesn't matter if the guy is a bad boy or a nerdy dork, they will want to marry and have kids, but to the right woman. Seen it many times when a marriage falls apart because the guy doesn't want kids, then after the divorce he meets someone and has kids with them. That is very telling no? I'm not saying you are a bad person or you suck, there is just something there that needs tweaking to help you reach your goal. I can't give you that answer, but a life/dating coach might be able to give you some positive direction. Or simply look into some self help books to refresh your outlook. 1
Toodaloo Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 abby This is the exact reason why you should never, ever, "settle". Eventually you will become resentful and angry that life is not going as you want it and they will feel the same. Could be a month down the line could be decades down the line but it will always end this way. What you are far better off doing is taking a look at the person. Do you match in terms of life goals and basic morals? Do you match in terms of lifestyles and how you both wish to live and enjoy your days together? Are any compromises that either of you are making reasonable and livable in the long term? Are you attracted to them and is there a bit of a connection with that person? Do you believe that when life gets tough (as it will do) that you can work through together? Those are the questions you should be asking not "will he do". Never ever go for the man that will just do. Go for the man you actively want to make feel special and have become a big part of your life. Anything else is just pointless.
Gaeta Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Just because they are of lesser attributes doesn't mean they have lesser expectations. That isn't how it works. Since you feel this is the only way to get a man to stick with you in hopes of marriage and kids....there's a problem here, and it doesn't lie within these dorks you have been dating. If you are in a life's struggle getting a man to marry you, then you need to take a good look at yourself and figure out why men don't find you marriage material. It doesn't matter if the guy is a bad boy or a nerdy dork, they will want to marry and have kids, but to the right woman. Seen it many times when a marriage falls apart because the guy doesn't want kids, then after the divorce he meets someone and has kids with them. That is very telling no? I'm not saying you are a bad person or you suck, there is just something there that needs tweaking to help you reach your goal. I can't give you that answer, but a life/dating coach might be able to give you some positive direction. Or simply look into some self help books to refresh your outlook. I don't think she needs to change anything. Someone will love her just the way she is. Yes a man may not see her as marriage and mother material but that is just because he did not truly connect with her. The next man she meets may. There is a someone for everyone out there no matter who you are, what is your personality, your insecurities, your goals, your size, career etc.
Gaeta Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 abby This is the exact reason why you should never, ever, "settle". Eventually you will become resentful and angry that life is not going as you want it and they will feel the same. Could be a month down the line could be decades down the line but it will always end this way. What you are far better off doing is taking a look at the person. Do you match in terms of life goals and basic morals? Do you match in terms of lifestyles and how you both wish to live and enjoy your days together? Are any compromises that either of you are making reasonable and livable in the long term? Are you attracted to them and is there a bit of a connection with that person? Do you believe that when life gets tough (as it will do) that you can work through together? Those are the questions you should be asking not "will he do". Never ever go for the man that will just do. Go for the man you actively want to make feel special and have become a big part of your life. Anything else is just pointless. Settling is when you stay with someone while you don't feel a connection and you know you'll never fall in love with them. It's not her case. She did not settle. She only give a change to a man that was not her usual type and she fell for him. Now she is going back to that because she is hurt. I did the very same thing. I went on a date with a man I had nicked named 'ugly guy'. Somehow I fell over heels for him. After 3 months dating he broke up with me. I felt like 'How dare you break up with ME! you're just an ugly guy'. No he was not just an 'ugly guy'. He was lovely and funny and I fell for him. When you're in love you don't settle. OP was in love, that is why she is so bitter.
Larryville Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 If you are in a life's struggle getting a man to marry you, then you need to take a good look at yourself and figure out why men don't find you marriage material. I’ve read hundreds of these threads now, and although I am older and been through some things stuff I read here I still learn. I just wonder do people actually take the time to read and comprehend these scenarios to see if there is actually anything to learn from them or do they just post and focus on their own world or current issue? People start countless threads and it almost is always about what someone else has done to them, or what someone isn’t doing… any discussion on this site or ANY site should always start with ourselves FIRST. No saying change themselves necessarily but just some mental and personal inventory. However I get this is a time where people are getting killed walking into traffic "driving and texting" cause they are staring at cell phones instead of the world and hazards around them… 1
Gaeta Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 I’ve read hundreds of these threads now, and although I am older and been through some things stuff I read here I still learn. I just wonder do people actually take the time to read and comprehend these scenarios to see if there is actually anything to learn from them or do they just post and focus on their own world or current issue? People start countless threads and it almost is always about what someone else has done to them, or what someone isn’t doing… any discussion on this site or ANY site should always start with ourselves FIRST. No saying change themselves necessarily but just some mental and personal inventory. However I get this is a time where people are getting killed walking into traffic "driving and texting" cause they are staring at cell phones instead of the world and hazards around them… In this case here you have * a woman that puts her cards on the table on 2nd date and expressing her desire to have marriage and children * You have a man that pretends he's ok with it so he can get it on with her, and he keeps the charade alive for 5 months. Who needs introspective here? Not Abby
Toodaloo Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 I felt like 'How dare you break up with ME! you're just an ugly guy'. No he was not just an 'ugly guy'. He was lovely and funny and I fell for him. When you're in love you don't settle. OP was in love, that is why she is so bitter. Ermmm. But Gaeta... you saw him as the ugly guy... how the hell is he ever going to feel special if in the back of your mind you think you are so much better and he isn't "worthy" of you. You may not know it, but it would have shown... Never, ever, settle. OP was not in "love" - she just discovered that there is more to a human being than just the way they look or what car they drive or how big their house is... 1
Larryville Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 The last guy I dated was a pretty big dork and not to sound vain, but not as attractive or witty or intelligent as I'm used to but he was nice and caring and treated me well. I brushed off a lot of more superficial things. She did not settle. She only give a change to a man that was not her usual type and she fell for him. OP was in love, that is why she is so bitter. Maybe I’m missing something, there was nothing to me that indicated that she “fell in love” with dude. She said: love deeply, but she stated: I do want marriage and kids. Her priority is marriage and kids not the foundation of a happy healthy relationship that would eventually lead to that... 2
Gaeta Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Ermmm. But Gaeta... you saw him as the ugly guy... how the hell is he ever going to feel special if in the back of your mind you think you are so much better and he isn't "worthy" of you. You may not know it, but it would have shown... Never, ever, settle. OP was not in "love" - she just discovered that there is more to a human being than just the way they look or what car they drive or how big their house is... Like OP, my impression of my date back then, on our first couple of dates, was that he was an ugly man. Once I spent time with him he became beautiful in my eyes. He was no longer ugly. You don't fall for someone then in the back of your head he's ugly. Once you fall for someone he becomes the most beautiful, the smarted, the nicest. When he broke up I was hurt, and I said things to friends like when we met I didn't even think he was nice looking. It's bitterness speaking. And it was unfair because yes at first he was an ugly guy but after he was beautiful enough for me to fall for him. Same thing with OP.
Gaeta Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Maybe I’m missing something, there was nothing to me that indicated that she “fell in love” with dude. She is hurt, bitter, and is starting 2 threads about that same hurt.
Gaeta Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Maybe I’m missing something, there was nothing to me that indicated that she “fell in love” with dude.. and she said: Once I call you my boyfriend, I am fully devoted. I care deeply, love deeply, She fell for him that is why she agreed to date him as boyfriend/girlfriend
Larryville Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Yes but G you don’t “decide” to love. Love is infinitely more deeper and complex than that. Someone started a thread “what is Love” I think… I posted this link Love is NOT a decision. The last guy I dated was a pretty big dork and not to sound vain, but not as attractive or witty or intelligent as I'm used to While a couple who might be together for 30, 40 or 50 years might say this about a mate reflecting on back in the day, you don't say this about someone you LOVE in a still developing relationship. 1
Gaeta Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Yes but G you don’t “decide” to love. Love is infinitely more deeper and complex than that. Someone started a thread “what is Love” I think… I posted this link Love is NOT a decision. While a couple who might be together for 30, 40 or 50 years might say this about a mate reflecting on back in the day, you don't say this about someone you LOVE in a still developing relationship. I agree with you we don't decide to fall in love. No you would never say that about someone you love and still in a relationship with. I am sure Abby didn't talk about him like this while everything was lovely. But now he broke up with her, she is hurt, she feels betrayed, that's why she says these things.
Toodaloo Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 Her priority is marriage and kids not the foundation of a happy healthy relationship that would eventually lead to that... Just want to post this again because it is the basis of the problem. 3
elaine567 Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) Her priority is marriage and kids not the foundation of a happy healthy relationship that would eventually lead to that... I tend to agree, he ticked her marriage and kids box, but how suitable "the pretty big dork" was after that, is open to question. The last guy I dated was a pretty big dork and not to sound vain, but not as attractive or witty or intelligent as I'm used to but he was nice and caring and treated me well. I brushed off a lot of more superficial things. Edited March 10, 2016 by elaine567 duplicate word
Gaeta Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 I tend to agree, he ticked her marriage and kids box, but how suitable "the pretty big dork" was after that, is open to question. If you read her previous threads you'll see how she was infatuated with him, had butterflies, etc. Her own words.
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